Date   

Re: conductor's reefer data

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, it would be fascinating to know if you could correlate the
number of ART cars (which really surprises me!) with known traffic
patterns for ART, like the annual peach crop from western Colorado
or produce (watermelons and canteloupes) from south Texas. What
I'm driving at is, wondering why so many ART reefers would show
up in California? In my modeling era 10 years later, the BAR had
acquired a lot more reefers, and from photos we know that at some
times of year (spring/summer) a lot of BAR reefers were used for
PFE loads out of northern California.

Tim O'Connor

I've recently finished transcribing a conductor's time book for
part of the Coast Line from 1948 to 1952, and it contains extensive
reefer car information. The loads in question are almost all
vegetables from the Salinas and Watsonville areas, and the analysis of
reporting marks present in the data is interesting. For those who may
wish to look at the results, I've summarized the findings in a post on
my SP modeling blog, which may be found at:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/02/modeling-freight-traffic-coast-line.html

Bottom line is that, of course, PFE cars dominated (76%) but ART cars
at 11% and MDT cars at about 4% were also significant. Quite a few
other reporting marks showed up too but in pretty small numbers, out
of 1102 total refrigerator cars in the sample.

Tony Thompson


Re: Waybills

foxtrackin50
 

Thanks Steve, I did just join that group. I live near Frankfort and I am a friend of Don Daily who is a friend of Tony. Just trying to make my waybills as real as possible. I like the way car cards work, but do not like the way they look.

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@...> wrote:

Hi Jan--You might get some info here, but you might want to join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto-Layouts/ where Tony Koester hangs out. If anyone knows Frankfort, he does.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@> wrote:

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Re: Waybills

Tim O'Connor
 

Jan

If you model the NKP, you will want to find a prototype waybill (or scan)
from the NKP for your time period. Then print blanks on your computer, or
whatever. I'm sure Tony Koester knows where to find them! I've only operated
on one model layout who uses miniature prototype waybills, Dan Holbrook's
Duluth-Superior terminal. It adds some prototype flavor to operations. I
can't help you, I only have SP and RI examples.

Tim O'Connor

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Re: No joy

rwitt_2000
 

Rich Townsend accidently wrote:

Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They
ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are
several detail drawings and cross-sections.
Kenneth Chapin replied:

I would like to see this on the B & O cars.
Ken,

I have a copy of that article describing the construction of the B&O
class R-7 refrigerator cars. Getting a clean copy can be difficult
especially when the journal volumes become very thick. As Rich stated
there are only detail drawings and cross-sections of the ice bunkers.
This article unfortunately did not include a general arrangement
drawing.

To answer Rich's question, yes the B&O sold some of their class R-7 to
the FGE.

Maybe this email exchange and accidental post should become a private
one between Bill and Rich.

Bob Witt


Re: No joy

kenneth chapin <kenneth_chapin@...>
 

Hi;
 I would like to see this on the B & O cars,thanks ken chapin

--- On Mon, 2/21/11, richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...> wrote:

From: richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...>
Subject: [STMFC] No joy
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, February 21, 2011, 11:11 AM







 











Bill,



I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for.



Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections.



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, Oregon



=



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Waybills

pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Jan--You might get some info here, but you might want to join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto-Layouts/ where Tony Koester hangs out. If anyone knows Frankfort, he does.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@...> wrote:

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Re: Blackstone tank car

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
Give the Bitter Creek Shops a try; they have many of the older style
trucks in cast metal form. I've used some with satisfactory results.
 
Fred Freitas


From: Jack Burgess <jack@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Blackstone tank car


 
The frameless "Van Dyke" ones started out as standard gauge tank cars and
were converted to narrow gauge. Richard Hendrickson did an article on them
in the December 1996 RMC (using a Precision Scale kit). Getting correct
trucks for them (if you model after the mid-1930s) is the difficulty...they
need cast 5' wheelbase trucks to be correct. The article describes how to
achieve this. A lot of them appeared on the YV and I followed Richard's
article to model a half dozen of them a few years ago...they are a neat
looking tank car!

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

<
<I saw one of the Blackstone (Soundtraxx) HOn3 UTLX tanks in a hobby
<shop.
<
<Would those cars have operated with standard gauge trucks? If so what
<style for truck?
<
<At 60 bucks you really have to want one!
<
<Thanks,
<Clark Propst




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blackstone tank car, speaking of tanks

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Speaking of tank cars is there any additional
information of the atsf Tk-G, H, etc. that was
discussed some months ago?


Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: No joy

Richard Townsend
 

Sorry. That was meant for Bill Welch.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: richtownsend@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Feb 21, 2011 8:11 am
Subject: [STMFC] No joy





Bill,

I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for.

Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

=

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blackstone tank car

Clark Propst
 

Thanks Barry,
I read a post where Richard states the cars were gone by 53 because of problems mounting AB brakes. I model 54. Guess that saves me $60 and fooling around with trucks!
Clark Propst


No joy

Richard Townsend
 

Bill,

I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for.

Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


=


Re: Blackstone tank car

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

The frameless "Van Dyke" ones started out as standard gauge tank cars and
were converted to narrow gauge. Richard Hendrickson did an article on them
in the December 1996 RMC (using a Precision Scale kit). Getting correct
trucks for them (if you model after the mid-1930s) is the difficulty...they
need cast 5' wheelbase trucks to be correct. The article describes how to
achieve this. A lot of them appeared on the YV and I followed Richard's
article to model a half dozen of them a few years ago...they are a neat
looking tank car!


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


<
<I saw one of the Blackstone (Soundtraxx) HOn3 UTLX tanks in a hobby
<shop.
<
<Would those cars have operated with standard gauge trucks? If so what
<style for truck?
<
<At 60 bucks you really have to want one!
<
<Thanks,
<Clark Propst


Waybills

foxtrackin50
 

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Blackstone tank car

Clark Propst
 

I saw one of the Blackstone (Soundtraxx) HOn3 UTLX tanks in a hobby shop.

Would those cars have operated with standard gauge trucks? If so what style for truck?

At 60 bucks you really have to want one!

Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: Coke container cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

asychis@...
 

Dorin's book Missouri Pacific Trains and equipment has a photo of a
Missouri-Illinois 300-series gondola with coke containers. These look similar to
USRA composite gondolas without the side sheathing, but are not exact
copies. Missouri Pacific had 39 coke cars built from boxcars (probably the 120000
series) with three side doors and no roof numbered in the 12070-1299,
along with cars 120093, 120179, 120269, 120280, 120526, and 120880. These were
38' -3" in length by 10' -5" wide by 13' high (ORER extreme height column)
with 6' long by 7' -6" high doors, 2563 cu. ft., 40 ton cars. There was
also the 7100-7199 series 70-ton coke gondolas built by the MP DeSoto shops in
1955. Of course the boxcars and the 7100-series gondolas were for coke
loading, not containers. I don't have specific car information, but the
panel-side gondolas and modified gondolas similar to the MI cars mentioned above
were also used for coke containers.

Jerry Michels


Re: Blackstone tank car

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

These were discussed at some length on this site a few months ago, under
iirc, Van Dyke...

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England


Re: triple hopper question

A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

What no quad hoppers? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] triple hopper question



Frank

Something that would account for dimensional differences in this
CNW series is you've got 3 bay, and 4 bay cars, some with ribbed
sides, some with rebuild panel (blister) sides, and some offsets.

I think with 3 bay hoppers, esp offset hoppers, aren't we headed
straight down the same road we went down with the 2 bay offsets?
Lots and lots of variations?

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------

>CNW 65101-68103 odds
>
>Some of these though have dimensional info which match cars that I do have
>photos of, that are quite different in appearance from the NYC and PM
>cars.
>
>Frank Valoczy
>Vancouver, BC






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Re: triple hopper question

Tim O'Connor
 

Frank

Something that would account for dimensional differences in this
CNW series is you've got 3 bay, and 4 bay cars, some with ribbed
sides, some with rebuild panel (blister) sides, and some offsets.

I think with 3 bay hoppers, esp offset hoppers, aren't we headed
straight down the same road we went down with the 2 bay offsets?
Lots and lots of variations?

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------

CNW 65101-68103 odds

Some of these though have dimensional info which match cars that I do have
photos of, that are quite different in appearance from the NYC and PM
cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: triple hopper question

Todd Horton
 

Frank, I have photos of these cars if you need one for reference. Todd Horton




________________________________
From: Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 9:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] triple hopper question

 
Todd Horton wrote:
I'm not sure how well they match but the C of G had 3 bay offset side
cars. They
were numbered 700-899, built in 1934 by PS . Todd Horton
Hi Todd,

I had that CG series listed in a second group of possibilities, in which I
listed cars that had a greater divergence in certain dimensions (including
capacity) than those in the first group.

The second group listed:

CG 700-899
Carbon County 7300-7349
B&O 621000-624999
LV 41000-41699
Roberval-Saguenay 932-961
Minnesota Western 100-129
CGW 69000-69099
CNW 65101-68103 odds
CMO 49701-49999 odds
IC 81500-81744
C&IW 900-934
C&IM 1000-1098, 11000-11049

Some of these though have dimensional info which match cars that I do have
photos of, that are quite different in appearance from the NYC and PM
cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: triple hopper question

Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
 

Todd Horton wrote:
I'm not sure how well they match but the C of G had 3 bay offset side
cars. They
were numbered 700-899, built in 1934 by PS . Todd Horton
Hi Todd,

I had that CG series listed in a second group of possibilities, in which I
listed cars that had a greater divergence in certain dimensions (including
capacity) than those in the first group.

The second group listed:

CG 700-899
Carbon County 7300-7349
B&O 621000-624999
LV 41000-41699
Roberval-Saguenay 932-961
Minnesota Western 100-129
CGW 69000-69099
CNW 65101-68103 odds
CMO 49701-49999 odds
IC 81500-81744
C&IW 900-934
C&IM 1000-1098, 11000-11049

Some of these though have dimensional info which match cars that I do have
photos of, that are quite different in appearance from the NYC and PM
cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

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