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Re: Duty Paid-Why Archbar Trucks Listed?

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
The GN likely paid duty on these cars to allow them free passage
across the border and to stay in Canada for a long period of time.
Duty was paid on ceratin CN sleeping cars to allow their travel back
and forth across the border without restriction. In the 1950's, the
CPR had duty paid on certain locomotives running in New England.
The CPR also had PS-1 boxcars built for its US division, the
International of Maine headquartered at Brownville Jct., ME.
Steve, in the list of cars in a conductor's time book I've
looked at for 1948-1952, I was struck with the observation that in
among all the other other cars were two different CN box cars being
LOADED in California. Could these also be duty-paid cars, or is this
just a plain old rule violation? One, for example, was loaded in
Salinas with dry beans to Modesto, both California locations.

Steve and Tony,

A "cars on hand" report from Forrest, IL on the Wabash, shows three
CN and eight CP box cars set out for grain loading on 9-30-52. One of the CN cars was used for brick loading at Streator, IL. I do not
recall if there was any further record of the cars beyond the day they were set out.

There were also a few interesting non-Canadian box cars which were in Forrest in 1952, including Ga Fla 7485, Rutland 8101 and 8005, SD&AE 7002, and Wichita Falls & Southern 6063.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


steel end express car

Douglas Harding
 

A friend asked me: Do you know when the transition from wood end express
cars to steel end express car took place? Also, how long were wood end cars
allowed for interchange after the transition to steel end?



He is wondering if he can run the wood express reefers on his layout. I
don't know the answer, but I know discussion of head end cars is permitted
on the STMFC list.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Wabash 8141

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Can anyone provide a link to a web-based photo, or send me one off-line, of
this car, or any similar car (double-door 40' box car)?

TIA

I sent Schuyler a builders photo of these cars off-line.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Murphy ends with vertical ribs

Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
 

Dennis,

I have the PM book in my hand and look at the same company diagram, and
yes, it says "Murphy". But as Fritz said, "Murphy" was often used pretty
loosely...

When I was doing the research several years ago on the origin of the
Piedmont & Northern's 1100-series cars, I found reference to these
vertically-ribbed ends as "Vulcan" ends. I hope you'll forgive me but
after 4 or 5 years passed since I was doing that research, I can't
remember where it was that I saw that. But it is possible I'm in error
with regards to the nomenclature of the PM ends, and that the Vulcan
reference was about the vertically-ribbed ends on some WLE cars (which are
admittedly quite different from the ones on the PM cars).

But as I can't recall the source, that's about equivalent to a wild-ass
guess in academic terms. That said, it doesn't mean I'm necessarily wrong,
nor does it mean that the diagram sheet is wrong. Either is, IMO,
possible, which is why I asked the question I did about whether car
builders had a preference for certain parts suppliers, and whether this
preference may have had influence on what the railway ultimately decided.

If it were to turn out that Western Steel Car Corp. had a preference for
getting parts from Chicago-Cleveland, then I would think it fairly
reasonable to assume that the PM 85000-series cars had the
Chicago-Cleveland ends. Given that the otherwise almost identical
86000-series cars built by Pressed Steel had Hutchins ends, I don't think
the PM had a set-in-stone preference for what manufacturer supplied the
steel ends, so long as they were steel ends. But again, I'm just guessing
here - and a point against my case is that the diagram for the
86000-series cars indicates Hutchins ends by name.

But to conclude, I wasn't making any assertions, just passing on what I'd
read/heard, and asking my own questions to go along with it.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

soolinehistory wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Frank Valoczy" <destron@...> wrote:


Dennis,

Not to make a big issue of it, but all the references I've seen to the
ends on the PM cars with the vertical 8+8 ribbing called it a Vulcan
end;
I've never seen any reference to vertically-placed Murphy ends.
Frank,

I personally don't know beans about PM boxcars, but didn't Fritz Milhaupt
just say in message 97935 that the PM diagram specifically called these
out as "Murphy" ends? I thought that since Mr. Million passed away, Fritz
was the go-to guy for things PM.

Now, Mr. Milhaupt's reference is apparently a railroad company diagram
sheet. There is, of course, the possibility it is in error. Care to cite
you references?

Dennis



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Re: Mystery to me box car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
But the "sluff" track can be any convenient track. These are specifically placed between the ladders. My best guess is they are, for want of a better name, "hand-off" tracks.
Most yards that have separate ladders like this use one yard for eastbound traffic, and one for westbound. Sometimes one switcher or the other will be working a cut that has cars that go both ways; such as when working a way freight that just arrived from switching the local industries . . .
Not sure this description is at odds with calling it a "slough track" though I recognize it's a little more specific.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Mystery to me box car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Anthony
Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I've been wondering if anyone can explain the intent of providing
the two tracks between the yard ladders. They're covered with cars,
but a mixmaster assortment. What are these tracks for?
They could be "slough" tracks, for the convenience of crews
working either ladder. That's a place you stuff cars that you need to
get out of the way for a little while.

Tony Thompson
But the "sluff" track can be any convenient track. These are specifically
placed between the ladders. My best guess is they are, for want of a better
name, "hand-off" tracks.

Most yards that have separate ladders like this use one yard for eastbound
traffic, and one for westbound. Sometimes one switcher or the other will be
working a cut that has cars that go both ways; such as when working a way
freight that just arrived from switching the local industries. Say the east
switcher is working the cars from this local. Every time he comes to a
westbound car, he kicks it into one of these tracks. Periodically, the west
yard engine pulls this track and classifies those cars for their westbound
destinations. Note there are two parallel tracks. While the east yard job is
filling one with "west" cars, the west job is filling the other with "east"
cars. At prearranged times (like the beginning of the trick, or more often
as needed) each crew stops kicking cars into the one track, and pulls the
other.

Dennis

Or both. As a yard operator where the EB and WB yard are situated across
the Main Line from each other, the idea that these are a convenient way to
handle cars headed the "wrong way" for the classification being done,
whether simultaneous in both yards, or sequential, is very sensible. One
thing that might increase the likelihood that the cars would be pulled for
classification is that the train they are to head out in is coming due
fairly soon.

Thanks.

SGL








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Re: Duty Paid-Why Archbar Trucks Listed?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
The GN likely paid duty on these cars to allow them free passage across the border and to stay in Canada for a long period of time. Duty was paid on ceratin CN sleeping cars to allow their travel back and forth across the border without restriction. In the 1950's, the CPR had duty paid on certain locomotives running in New England. The CPR also had PS-1 boxcars built for its US division, the International of Maine headquartered at Brownville Jct., ME.
Steve, in the list of cars in a conductor's time book I've looked at for 1948-1952, I was struck with the observation that in among all the other other cars were two different CN box cars being LOADED in California. Could these also be duty-paid cars, or is this just a plain old rule violation? One, for example, was loaded in Salinas with dry beans to Modesto, both California locations.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: paint sripping

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Don--

I have two of these Roundhouse milk cars, and brake fluid worked well to strip the paint off one of them. The paint came off by scrubbing with an old toothbrush after a few hours' soaking.

90-99% rubbing alcohol will strip paint off many different makers' models safely, if in doubt as to what brake fluid will do to a certain model.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "sarbuf" <djjanes@...> wrote:

Hello Group: I was just wondering if anyone has stripped the paint, or at least the lettering off a Roundhouse (Athearn) Phaudler wood milk car. I have a couple of painted cars I want to redo and need to get the lettering off. I would appreciate any suggestion.

Thanks
Don Janes
Sarnia, Ont


Re: Duty Paid-Why Archbar Trucks Listed?

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Many were the roads that kept archbar trucks and K brake systems on company-service cars. Furthermore, unlike within the US, these were NO restrictions on the use of cars equipped with either or both of these items in Canada.

The GN likely paid duty on these cars to allow them free passage across the border and to stay in Canada for a long period of time. Duty was paid on ceratin CN sleeping cars to allow their travel back and forth across the border without restriction. In the 1950's, the CPR had duty paid on certain locomotives running in New England. The CPR also had PS-1 boxcars built for its US division, the International of Maine headquartered at Brownville Jct., ME.

Company service cars often spent a substantial amount of time at one location. But customs legislation and regulations pursuant thereto required that equipment stationed in one country return to that country within a fixed timeframe (72 hours?). Perhaps too short a time frame for company serivce cars.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

I have a copy of the Great Northern January 1, 1942 Classification and Numbering of Locomotives and Equipment. It has a section listing steam locomotives that had Duty paid on them as well as passenger, freight and work equipment. The box car listing includes notations for those cars with archbar trucks. The flatcar list includes notations for cast steel trucks. No such notations are given for the work equipment that duty had been paid upon.

Did the duties paid to get the equipment into Canada include a charge based upon the type of truck? The similar edition for 1930 does not contain either notation for the type of truck and I have not seen such a notation for archbar trucks in any other GN publication. The 18 iron ore cars in the duty paid equipment list was also a surprise.


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Mystery to me box car

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I've been wondering if anyone can explain the intent of providing
the two tracks between the yard ladders. They're covered with cars,
but a mixmaster assortment. What are these tracks for?
They could be "slough" tracks, for the convenience of crews
working either ladder. That's a place you stuff cars that you need to
get out of the way for a little while.

Tony Thompson
But the "sluff" track can be any convenient track. These are specifically placed between the ladders. My best guess is they are, for want of a better name, "hand-off" tracks.

Most yards that have separate ladders like this use one yard for eastbound traffic, and one for westbound. Sometimes one switcher or the other will be working a cut that has cars that go both ways; such as when working a way freight that just arrived from switching the local industries. Say the east switcher is working the cars from this local. Every time he comes to a westbound car, he kicks it into one of these tracks. Periodically, the west yard engine pulls this track and classifies those cars for their westbound destinations. Note there are two parallel tracks. While the east yard job is filling one with "west" cars, the west job is filling the other with "east" cars. At prearranged times (like the beginning of the trick, or more often as needed) each crew stops kicking cars into the one track, and pulls the other.

Dennis


Re: Mystery to me box car

mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

Sounds plausible given boxcars, flats, and tank cars can be discerned.

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC 29681

On 2/26/2011 9:46 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I've been wondering if anyone can explain the intent of providing
the two tracks between the yard ladders. They're covered with cars,
but a mixmaster assortment. What are these tracks for?
They could be "slough" tracks, for the convenience of crews
working either ladder. That's a place you stuff cars that you need to
get out of the way for a little while.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Murphy ends with vertical ribs

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Frank Valoczy" <destron@...> wrote:


Dennis,

Not to make a big issue of it, but all the references I've seen to the
ends on the PM cars with the vertical 8+8 ribbing called it a Vulcan end;
I've never seen any reference to vertically-placed Murphy ends.
Frank,

I personally don't know beans about PM boxcars, but didn't Fritz Milhaupt just say in message 97935 that the PM diagram specifically called these out as "Murphy" ends? I thought that since Mr. Million passed away, Fritz was the go-to guy for things PM.

Now, Mr. Milhaupt's reference is apparently a railroad company diagram sheet. There is, of course, the possibility it is in error. Care to cite you references?

Dennis


Re: Murphy ends with vertical ribs

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Car makers may have favored one part or appliance supplier over another but the purchasing railroad specified the various parts and appliances in incredible detail - usually more than 125 different items.

Gene Green


Re: Proto 50' boxcar roof removal

O Fenton Wells
 

Mark I remove the sides of these cars by using a Dremel tool with a saw
blade and cut close to the line I'm removing. I have done 4 Southern 10 IH
50 ft boxcars this way from 10'-6" IH Life Like cars. Just remember to be
VERY careful as the saw blade dosen't care what it cuts, flesh or plastic
and wear eye protection as well. Just figure out where you want to make
your cut and go to it.
Good Luck and be careful.
Fenton
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Mark M <bnonut@...> wrote:



Any suggestions on removing a roof on a Proto 50' boxcar. Bought resin
parts 50' viking roofs for NKP #87000 series.
Had four of the cars 3 RTR and one kit. Plan too roof three and use the
other for something else.

Mark Morgan




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


Official Railway Equipment Register

O Fenton Wells
 

Does anyone have a 1951 ORER for sale or trade? I hae a 1963 to trade or I
would buy it outright.

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


Proto 50' boxcar roof removal

Mark
 

Any suggestions on removing a roof on a Proto 50' boxcar. Bought resin parts 50' viking roofs for NKP #87000 series.
Had four of the cars 3 RTR and one kit. Plan too roof three and use the other for something else.

Mark Morgan


Compendex EI, was Re: No joy

Jim Mischke
 

There is an on-line resource at university libraries. It is called Compendex EI, it is the digital, searchable Engineering Index. Remember the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature from grade school research? The Engineering Index is the technical version and includes the popular railroad journals.

The better university libraries subscribe to the database going back to 1885, the more frugal libraries only back to 1968 or so.

Richard, I bet this database is what you were using , yet I thought I would mention it as library tool for everyone.

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:


Bill,

I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for.

Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


=




Re: Frisco covered hoppers

Jim Mischke
 

There are cement plants everywhere, on the Frisco and other railroads.

That would be my educated guess.

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I have a Kadee Frisco covered hopper. Before I weather this, what sorts of
lading would it likely have carried as a Frisco car?

SGL





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Wabash 8141

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Can anyone provide a link to a web-based photo, or send me one off-line, of
this car, or any similar car (double-door 40' box car)?

TIA

SGL





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Re: Murphy ends continued

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
It was named for Peter Murphy the patent holder and later President of Standard Railway Equipment. I believe those records are now at Northwestern U's trans library. Pullman-Standard even tried to copy one his designs and got caught in the courts.
Thanks, Al. Now that you state it, I think Richard Hendrickson had come with this fact too, but I'd forgotten.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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