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Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I recently had a long phone conversation with a brass importer who has all
the information and photos needed to produce excellent models of 1920s
vintage STC tank cars ... But the importer fears that models of ordinary
STC tank cars painted black with only reporting marks and numbers would
languish unsold ...
Just between you and me, I am seriously thinking about commissioning one
or more brass freight car projects. (Hey, that start up in 1997 paid off
after all!) For example, I would really like to have a whole train of SP
Clejan flatcars w/ trailers. Overland brought in Clejans last year for
about 150 dealer net. (They were not the SP version.) I wonder if I could
bring in 100 models, sell 80 at cost and keep 20 at cost -- I have no
interest in trying to make money or even get free models (although that
would be fine!). I simply want the models!!

There are many tank cars I would love to see, including some earlier SP
cars, and that car people mistake for the Van Dyke (including me). Most
of the ones I'd really like to see are welded cars from the late 40's to
the late 50's. But, the Clejans w/ trailers are what I would like most.

I spoke with Bill Schneider about the possibility of commissioning some
needed freight car parts -- like replacement underframes (Duryea, and
PS Hydraframe, for example) for kits. He pooh-poohed the idea. I thought
if we could make a mold set with 3 or 4 underframes, and other desirable
parts, that maybe it could return at least some of the investment. (I do
expect to lose some money on the deal... but these days I feel like time
is more important than money. And I lost more money today on the stock
market than this mold idea would cost me.)

Any ideas, or suggestions? I can't do anything soon, since my 12-hour
work days prevent me from doing much about these ideas... I hope that
will change before this summer.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

ibs4421@...
 

While I was pulling extra duty at work today, Richard informed us that . . . . .
I recently had a long phone conversation with a brass importer who has all
the information and photos needed to produce excellent models of 1920s
vintage STC tank cars but has been told by more than one dealer that "there
are too many tank car models on the market already" and that most modelers
would rather buy several Life-Like or InterMountain plastic built-ups than
spend the same amount of money for a brass model of "just another tank
car."

And he gave us this as well:

Models painted in wild colors with billboard lettering
(Baby Ruth! Baker's Chocolate!) might also sell. But the importer fears
that models of ordinary STC tank cars painted black with only reporting
marks and numbers would languish unsold in his stock room, and, despite my
own preferences, I have to admit that he's probably right.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

OK Guys,
I won't be buying any brass tank cars, I can't afford them. Yes I will be buying Life-Like and Intermountain KITS. I would buy the built-ups if I happen to find them on sale, but right now I figure that my time spent building these is worth the savings, for me at least. I am on a rather restricted budget.
FWIW, I am buying almost exclusively plain-jane, black tank cars. A feller can never have too many of them. There is one exception, I am buying the Mobilgas red tank cars from Life-Like because the area I plan right now to model had a gas distributor who rec'd them. I am always looking for good deals if and when I can find them on the P2K cars.

Warren Dickinson
Along L&N's Memphis Line


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Re: FGEX Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard sez:
but then you'd have to letter all your models with
decals. Unfortunately, though modelers of both both eastern and
northwestern RRs desperately need good models of FGEX/BREX/WFEX reefers,
the manufacturers are all saying the same thing: too many wood reefer kits
on the market already. So there's no simple solution on the horizon, AFAIK.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard,
Are the decals out there to do this with? Ya'll pardon my
ignorance of what is available for this type of car. I will probably need
quite a few, but that day is far off.
Yes, MicroScale has a good set for transition era BREX cars and Champ has
good sets for FGEX and WFEX. Also, Clover House has nice FGEX and WFEX dry
transfer sets.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

ibs4421@...
 

Byron, one of my freight car knowledge heroes wrote:

3 Come up with something other than "In Action" for your title unless
you want to start by doing battle with Squadron-Signals lawyers. They
have been using that title for 20+ years for 5 or 6 different series
about planes, armor, boats, etc., and I suspect they have it tied up in
law.

I always thought that "(blank) In Service" was kinda catchy, but hey.

Warren Dickinson


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Byron Rose wrote:

Ben,

I've been giving our discussions this past weekend much thought, as well
as your recent posting to the STMFC list. Here are some of my thoughts,
for whatever they're worth....
I don't always agree 100% with Byron, but in this case I strongly second
his very astute observations.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Sunshine models offers four kits for Fruit Growers Express (and Western Fruit). All of them are good for 1944 and after. I don't know the stock number but basically they are as follows:

the 1921 built cars
the 1928 built cars
a rebuild of the above that is a taller car with taller doors
the truss rod cars w/straight queen posts

the basic body of the truss rod car can be used to kit bash cars with three different underframes, two of which are almost if not exactly identical to the built-up underframe and the Bettendorf underframe used by PFE's 30-'s and 40-'s. In fact the only difference I can see between the Bettendorf's used by FGE and those of PFE's is that FGE's had a slot for the brake lever to pass through it, as opposed to the PFE style that hung under the center beam. The third kitbash involves replicating the early 1921 design deliveries that conceal the side sill behind the siding and therefore exposed the underframes cross bearers.

I have kit bashed the other truss rod cars that had a longer angled queen post and have done a set of masters for Sunshine as a part of a set of masters to do the BREX's truss rod reefers for Sunshine.

Plus, if you are not confused enough, the 1928 cars can be combined with an PRR X25 underframe from Westerfield to create another group.

FGE had without question a wonderfully crazy assortment of cars. Many of the above kit bashes will appear in kit form, but they will be in resin, not styrene. We will be seeing a beautiful ex-Pennsy R-7 reefer in FGE lettering in the not too distant future from Westerfield.

We will also be seeing BREX/FGEX/WFEX steel reefers too.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/26/01, at 5:41 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Howdy y'all,

Thank you for all the wonderful help with suggestions regarding reefer
traffic on the PRR. Now I have another question...does anyone make a model
of an FGEX reefer appropriate for 1944? I see that Red Caboose is listing
cat #RC4437, and R-30-12-9 Wood Reefer in FGEX with a reweigh stencil of
8.47....
Given Red Caboose's penchant for imaginary paint schemes...is this car
correct for FGEX? Can it be backdated to 1944 by simply changing the
reweigh stencil?
No, Fruit Growers owned no cars that even remotely resembled the PFE
R-30-12-9 class. OTOH, Accurail's BREX-prototype wood reefers can be
reworked to represent FGEX and WFEX cars by replacing the fishbelly center
sills with straight center sills, if you can tolerate the molded-on
details. Or, like Bill Welch, you can pare all that stuff off and replace
it with free-standing details (see a photo of Bill's results in the latest
Railmodel Journal), but then you'd have to letter all your models with
decals. Unfortunately, though modelers of both both eastern and
northwestern RRs desperately need good models of FGEX/BREX/WFEX reefers,
the manufacturers are all saying the same thing: too many wood reefer kits
on the market already. So there's no simple solution on the horizon, AFAIK.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
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Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard Hendrickson sniffed

There will be no painted and lettered GATX cars; brass collectors aren't
interested in "plain Jane" tank cars (but will think that the Baker's
Castor Oil cars are highly amusing
Hey, I resemble that remark! Besides, the NATX model is fairly plain
Jane-ish, as is the SP O-50-14 in original lettering. I'm just happy
to have ONE decent model of a General American tank car.
The WAD/RC tank car project began with a group of SP modelers who wanted HO
scale O-50-14s, had SP data on them, and (as usual) neither knew or cared
that they were of a standard GATC design that had been built for numerous
other owners (including GATC itself). There are among brass buyers (and
model railroaders in general) many who have tunnel vision about their
favorite RR and will buy anything that's prototypically correct for it
while giving little or no thought to modeling off-line rolling stock. I
can't count the number of times people have said to me, in effect, "what do
I care about Pennsy or NYC freight cars? I model the Southern Pacific (or
Santa Fe, Burlington, etc.)." So there was a market for the SP models
right from the get-go. The other versions came into being when I pointed
out to Bill McC that the SP cars were standard GATC Type 30s except that
the O-50-14s had dome platforms only on one side.

The NATX car was offered painted and lettered only because (a) I had good
photos and (b) the photos showed it with the trapezoidal North American
logos. It would never have been done with reporting marks and numbers
only, for the same reason that GATX and several other possible prototypes
were not offered in p/l form: too dull. The number of people who will
actually buy brass freight cars to run on a layout is very small, many are
on this list, and those of us on the list could probably name almost all of
the others.

I recently had a long phone conversation with a brass importer who has all
the information and photos needed to produce excellent models of 1920s
vintage STC tank cars but has been told by more than one dealer that "there
are too many tank car models on the market already" and that most modelers
would rather buy several Life-Like or InterMountain plastic built-ups than
spend the same amount of money for a brass model of "just another tank
car." A model of a really weird car might sell (remember the popularity,
years ago, of the brass J&L Steel tank cars, despite the fact that there
were only a handful of prototype cars and they were only operated in
assigned service?). Models painted in wild colors with billboard lettering
(Baby Ruth! Baker's Chocolate!) might also sell. But the importer fears
that models of ordinary STC tank cars painted black with only reporting
marks and numbers would languish unsold in his stock room, and, despite my
own preferences, I have to admit that he's probably right.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


UP Destination Codes

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Coincidental to Chuck's info, the UP Frt Car Conductors Book that I have lists destinations by a number...such as 0, 2, 4, 5....Watching a March of Times special filmed during the very early 50s...several 4-12-2's make appearances....produced by Mark I Video, I noted that a UP film states that cards were made out for destinations. 4 was for LA, 5 for Ogden. Unfortunately, they didn't list any more. At Omaha, Council Bluffs, or North Platte, cars were sorted with single tracks being associated with these card number designations.

Mike Brock


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson sniffed

There will be no painted and lettered GATX cars; brass collectors aren't
interested in "plain Jane" tank cars (but will think that the Baker's
Castor Oil cars are highly amusing
Hey, I resemble that remark! Besides, the NATX model is fairly plain
Jane-ish, as is the SP O-50-14 in original lettering. I'm just happy
to have ONE decent model of a General American tank car.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

byronrose@...
 

Ben,

I've been giving our discussions this past weekend much thought, as well
as your recent posting to the STMFC list. Here are some of my thoughts,
for whatever they're worth:

I The "In Action" series as Squadron-Signal publishes them now are
strictly prototype data books, or more correctly, monographs. They don't
cover any modeling directly and because of this they never become
obsolete! S-S also publishes a series called "Detail and Scale." This
group does has references in it to scale models. When the series started
the modeling section was very long. Over the years it has been shortened
considerably, to no more than a brief paragraph on the better models, a
brief sentence on the shorter ones. Five years from now those short
paragraphs and sentences will seem way too long. So will any modeling
remarks in a book on freight cars. Unless you cover all models in all
scales, past and present and even future, you will have some people avoid
it because it doesn't cover their scale. And if your book is worthy,
most of the models available will be corrected, withdrawn, or replaced by
better models, making that entire section obsolete. Think about it. I
know I'd be upset paying good money for page after page of photos of F&C
models when there could be even more prototype photos printed instead.
Besides, why provide free advertising?

2 Look at the Prototype Cyclopedias that Ed Hawkins publishes, I think
that he has hit on an Ideal format, especially after he stopped taking
advertising. The vertical format with square binding allows for normal
width bookshelf storage and a readable title. The photos print at about
7 1/4'" wide, ideal in my eyes for quality photo printing and the ability
to see small details on car sides. He even gets a small amount of color
in each issue. His magazine sells for 20 something bucks; about half the
number of pages and cost would be ideal. I've heard that he prints
between 2000 and 3000 copies each and has had a semi hard sell of the 5
issues to date. That said, I think Ed may be the perfect person to deal
with for getting started, either as a source of information or as a
publisher/partner. Unless you feel you can bankroll it by yourself.

3 Come up with something other than "In Action" for your title unless
you want to start by doing battle with Squadron-Signals lawyers. They
have been using that title for 20+ years for 5 or 6 different series
about planes, armor, boats, etc., and I suspect they have it tied up in
law. Besides, you are not actually discussing anything about freight
cars that needs to depict action. Besides a better title could be then
used for other areas of railroading: like passenger cars, turntables,
bridges, and stations. I'd hate to think of a book called "Stations in
Action."

4 Unless you destroy the concept and print the photos too small, don't
try to squeeze too much into this first book. I think you'll find that
just the original USRA cars will fill a nice first volume. Save the
clones and rebuilds Whatever you do, don't stop with only pictures. Get
drawings, from the modeling magazines if necessary, or pay to have a set
drawn. The info is out there. Be sure to include everything that a
modeler could and should have to build a good model, such as brake
rigging, differences in details between the cars built by the various
builders or for the various railroads. Just the differences in AB brake
rigging added by the various railroads will fill a full chapter. Include
all those neat little sketches that will show the detailing differences.
Another big help would be a photo gallery of detail shots from one or
more of the several USRA d/s cars still in existence.

5 Try to think of your efforts as the first of many by establishing a
flexible format that others can add to and create a library covering a
wide range of railroad subjects.

5 There are a lot of photographs out there. Sometimes it may take a bit
of digging to get at them. Don't count on just the members of this list
to provide everything you need. Contact all the relevant historical
societies for whatever they can provide. Many of them have access to
drawings, builders and insurance photographs, dates, car and lettering
diagrams. In case you haven't discovered it yet, this will be one hell
of a huge undertaking.

Good luck.

Byron


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Re: Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy

ibs4421@...
 

Richard sez:
but then you'd have to letter all your models with
decals. Unfortunately, though modelers of both both eastern and
northwestern RRs desperately need good models of FGEX/BREX/WFEX reefers,
the manufacturers are all saying the same thing: too many wood reefer kits
on the market already. So there's no simple solution on the horizon, AFAIK.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard,
Are the decals out there to do this with? Ya'll pardon my ignorance of what is available for this type of car. I will probably need quite a few, but that day is far off.

Warren


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Re: Steel Billets

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote

Per my J&L catalog, a 5" square of steel weighs 85 lbs/running foot. You
should be able to calculate a carload from that.
That would be 29 pieces, 40 feet long, for a 98,600 pound steam era load.

Were there standard lengths for billets, as for rail. Or were they sized
to order? (Obviously this would be before continuous casting mills.)

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Steel Billets

dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

Clark,
The gondola in the NMRA Bulletin photo I referenced contained 4 stacks in
what looks to be a 52' gondola. Two stacks of bars are side by side ( 4
tiers high x nine 5x5 bars in one stack and 4 tiers high X seven 5x5 bars).
Each of the two stacks are at the end of the gon over a set of trucks. Wood
bracing is used to keep the stacks seperated and wood 4x4s keep the bars
away from the side of the gon. The bars appear to be approximately 20'
long.

Talk about a picture being worth a 1000 words. If I had a scanner, I'd show
you the photo in question. Good luck building a load. Let me know how it
turns out.
Larry Sexton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clark Propst" <cepropst@rconnect.com>
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 5:05 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Steel Billets



Deckers reefers

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I just got two jpegs from Howard Ameling of two more Decker reefers.
As many of you know Howard doesn't sell prints anymore just jpegs. The
cars are 2532 and 2834. 2824 is a very interesting 'down on shot'.
Howard's new e-mail address is; nkp4@netzero.net
Clark


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

It appears that I will have to unsubscribe, due to the number of Mac bozos
present on this list. :o)

Regards,

-Jeff


On Mar 27, 3:42pm, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars
Richard,

I always though you were a maverick. Congratulations on your excellent
taste in computers. Macintosh forever!

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff
Who got his start in computers selling Macs in 1984.

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
.... Contrary to the impression many computer users seem to have,
Microsoft >does not rule the world and some of us (especially Mac
loyalists) avoid MS >software when possible ....

-- End of excerpt from Garth G. Groff


--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Steel Billets

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

The only question remaining is, how full were the cars?
Clark
Per my J&L catalog, a 5" square of steel weighs 85 lbs/running foot. You
should be able to calculate a carload from that.

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

ibs4421@...
 

David,
I don't get it. I first joined a Yahoo!club in '98 (ellenNmodelrailroaders) using my sister-in-laws PC and her e-mail address. No problem. Then, when we got online here at my house, I changed the subscription to my e-mail address. Once again, no problems. We got off-line for a while (six months), got back on, and I rejoined a bunch of stuff using our new e-mail address. No problems. There is part of me that says there has to be something I am doing that some of ya'll aren't or vice-a-versa for ya'll to be having the problems that you are. I do use a small, local ISP as opposed to using AOL, or MSN, or some-such big corporate monster. Maybe that's it, I don't know.

Warren Dickinson
Out where God lost his shoes (ie: Elkton, KY), but Yahoo! still seems to work. 8^)

----- Original Message -----
From: David Lenehan
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars


ibs4421@commandnet.net wrote:

> Richard "opined"
> The more I hear from people who have
> registered with Yahoo, the more determined I become not to do so.
>
> Richard and all,
> I am certainly no big fan of Yahoo!, but I have never had a moments trouble out fo them in over two years of usage. I don't understand why ya'll are havingso much trouble, and yet I have none.

Warren,

At last - a glimmer of understanding. It must be a loyalty thing! After continuous problems, I have had to remove myself twice from the Yeehaw! system (until I couldn't access any of the lists) then rejoin and
put up with all the BS (it won't let me use my own e-mail address to receive messages from the lists) as I joined. Now here's the really prime bit. Upon resubscribing as a member of Yeehaw! I have found that, even
though I couldn't access anything as a non-subscriber, I was still listed everywhere I had previously been subscribed - both times. And for a while everything worked normally. Bah Humbug to Yeehaw!

It all just gets right up my nose . . .
. . . though I'm still smiling.

Regards
David Lenehan


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Steel Billets

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Dave, Larry and Guy,
The only question remaining is, how full were the cars?
Clark


Re: Freight Cars in Action - USRA DS Boxcars

David Lenehan <david_lenehan@...>
 

ibs4421@commandnet.net wrote:

Richard "opined"
The more I hear from people who have
registered with Yahoo, the more determined I become not to do so.

Richard and all,
I am certainly no big fan of Yahoo!, but I have never had a moments trouble out fo them in over two years of usage. I don't understand why ya'll are havingso much trouble, and yet I have none.
Warren,

At last - a glimmer of understanding. It must be a loyalty thing! After continuous problems, I have had to remove myself twice from the Yeehaw! system (until I couldn't access any of the lists) then rejoin and
put up with all the BS (it won't let me use my own e-mail address to receive messages from the lists) as I joined. Now here's the really prime bit. Upon resubscribing as a member of Yeehaw! I have found that, even
though I couldn't access anything as a non-subscriber, I was still listed everywhere I had previously been subscribed - both times. And for a while everything worked normally. Bah Humbug to Yeehaw!

It all just gets right up my nose . . .
. . . though I'm still smiling.

Regards
David Lenehan


Re: W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX tank cars

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I ordered mine thru Central Hobby supply. I know of someone on this list who is working on producing a set of decals of the GATX scheme, but I don't want to make that public until either I have his permission or the sets are actually a reality. I will try to keep you posted.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 3/26/01, at 3:53 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:

Bill and Mike commented on receiving their W.A Drake/Red Caboose GATX 8,000
gallon tank cars...

Bill, Mike

Where did you order yours from (Red Caboose)? I was also curious to see
that they have GATX undec listed, but not painted, any idea if they plan to
offer a painted version?...How were you planning on painting and decaling
yours?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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