Date   

WMRX insulated box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Anyone here know what type of roof these cars had? The ends look
like Despatch. I know this photo is from 1962, but the cars were built
in the 1950's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTERN-MARYLAND-WM-40FT-REEFER-WMRX-12-DUPLICATE-SLIDE-/150576680794

Thanks
Tim O'Connor


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Perhaps, instead of generalities, you might provide specifics as to which
of their kits are incorrect? And how? And have you notified Sunshine?

Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni




From: <cobrapsl@aol.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:39:12 -0400
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars









And it seems to be getting worst with every new offering!
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com
<mailto:jimhayes97225%40gmail.com>>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Paul, I won't disagree with you on the Sunshine underframe issue. Too often
t seems that whatever is already available gets used rather than what is
orrect.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:29 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com
<mailto:cobrapsl%40aol.com>> wrote:
Jim,

That is basically correct for that car, but that is only the "big picture".
In many cases I find the exact placement locations to be wrong in the
instruction sheets, and that is why I always use photographs to confirm
where the major parts go. BTW, A number of the Sunshine kits simply have
the
wrong underframes for the car being modeled and placing the the brake
parts
correctly cannot be done because there is a structural crossbearer, or
stringer, in the way.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com
<mailto:jimhayes97225%40gmail.com>>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

The Rib Side Cars ribside car I have has everything on one side.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com
<mailto:cobrapsl%40aol.com>> wrote:
>

I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating
UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of
these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Paul Lyons
 

And it seems to be getting worst with every new offering!
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars


Paul, I won't disagree with you on the Sunshine underframe issue. Too often
t seems that whatever is already available gets used rather than what is
orrect.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:29 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:

Jim,

That is basically correct for that car, but that is only the "big picture".
In many cases I find the exact placement locations to be wrong in the
instruction sheets, and that is why I always use photographs to confirm
where the major parts go. BTW, A number of the Sunshine kits simply have the
wrong underframes for the car being modeled and placing the the brake parts
correctly cannot be done because there is a structural crossbearer, or
stringer, in the way.

Paul Lyons


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

The Rib Side Cars ribside car I have has everything on one side.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:
>

I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating
UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of
these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may
be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom



-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11





Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: ERIE/EL gondolas

mcindoefalls
 

I don't recall the specifics, but there was an auto or truck assembly plant on the Erie's Newark Branch that shipped crated vehicles loaded into these gons to the Hudson River piers at Weehawken, NJ. A very short haul.

Walt Lankenau

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

. . . this car
is listed in the 1959 ORER as being specially equipped to
carry export crates

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie15850lba.jpg


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Jim Hayes
 

Paul, I won't disagree with you on the Sunshine underframe issue. Too often
it seems that whatever is already available gets used rather than what is
correct.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:29 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:




Jim,

That is basically correct for that car, but that is only the "big picture".
In many cases I find the exact placement locations to be wrong in the
instruction sheets, and that is why I always use photographs to confirm
where the major parts go. BTW, A number of the Sunshine kits simply have the
wrong underframes for the car being modeled and placing the the brake parts
correctly cannot be done because there is a structural crossbearer, or
stringer, in the way.

Paul Lyons


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

The Rib Side Cars ribside car I have has everything on one side.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:
I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating
UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of
these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may
be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
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Individual Email | Traditional
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Paul Lyons
 

Jim,

That is basically correct for that car, but that is only the "big picture". In many cases I find the exact placement locations to be wrong in the instruction sheets, and that is why I always use photographs to confirm where the major parts go. BTW, A number of the Sunshine kits simply have the wrong underframes for the car being modeled and placing the the brake parts correctly cannot be done because there is a structural crossbearer, or stringer, in the way.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars


The Rib Side Cars ribside car I have has everything on one side.
Jim Hayes
ortland Oregon
ww.sunshinekits.com

n Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:
I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating
UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of
these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons


-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may
be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom



-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11








Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Jim Hayes
 

The Rib Side Cars ribside car I have has everything on one side.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:50 AM, <cobrapsl@aol.com> wrote:



I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating
UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of
these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons


-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may
be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Paul Lyons
 

I would be VERY wary of using the Sunshine instruction sheet for locating UF parts. I am not sure about the rib sided Milw instructions, but many of these sheets are just plain wrong about UF locations!
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars




Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom



-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: William Raia Contact Info

Charles Hladik
 

Jerry,
That was Bob Rzaza, could have been Raza.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 3/17/2011 12:19:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jerryglow@comcast.net writes:




I think that gentleman's name was Raza

Jerry Glow

--- In _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) , "Patrick
Wilkinson" <glgpat@...> wrote:

Isn't this the same guy who owned Custom Finishing Models or something
similar-they made all those white metal M.O.W. kits?



If it is I am pretty sure he died a year or so ago.



Pat Wilkinson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: William Raia Contact Info

jerryglow2
 

I think that gentleman's name was Raza

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Wilkinson" <glgpat@...> wrote:

Isn't this the same guy who owned Custom Finishing Models or something
similar-they made all those white metal M.O.W. kits?



If it is I am pretty sure he died a year or so ago.



Pat Wilkinson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


American Refrigerator Transit Company Book

Jerry <asychis@...>
 

Hello Everyone,

You might be interested in a book on the American Refrigerator Transit Company (ART) that is close to completion. Gene Semon and I have been working on this for a number of years, and we are at the point where we'd like to make a "plea" for any additional information that might be out there that could fill in some gaps we have. As you may know, ART was pretty stingy with information on the number of cars it had on its roster and did not report number of cars in the ORER until the 1940s. We have information from some other sources, especially a court case in the 1930s where the Wabash sued ART, and a few ART annual reports, but even there, the information is thin prior to the mid-1940s. In addition, photos are lacking for a number of cars. So, we are asking for help with the following:

We need photos of cars in the following series, those without reporting marks are ART series.
3001-3031
3501 a single 45' car
4000-4499
7000-7199
8701-8800
8800-8999
9100-9599
9700-9749
14100-14111
18775-18949
22979-22988
22989-23140
23141-23880
23381-24199
24100-24199
24200-24349
24350-24449
24450-24699
35000-35049
53000-53999
46000-46299
1113
90000-90999
AMRX 1000-1011
AMTX 10000-10009
ARDX 500-505
LOJX 721000-721009 covered hoppers
MART 67000-67999
MART 68000-68999
MART 69000-69999
MODX 2500-2649
RMBX 9000-9009
RMAX 80-89
RMAX 90-99
MP 113085-113332
NW 49173-49289
MPFX 995000-995001 Auto racks on flat cars
MPFX 992000-992097 Auto racks on flat cars

As always we could use any official ART rosters or drawings, annual reports, photographs of ART icing docks and shop facilities, and any information on operations. There were occasional reports of car orders mentioned in Railway Age, and we could use those too if anyone has knowledge of them. We have pretty well exhausted the common sources of information, and probably have every modeling publication produced since the mid-1970s.

This book is not going to be just a book of photos, but lots of history and other data. We want to make this the definitive work on ART. I know from my experiences writing the book on Missouri Pacific cabooses that once a book is published a lot of information comes out that folks have in their collections. All contributors will, of course, be acknowledged. This is going to a number of different groups, so please excuse the cross-posting. Thanks for your time and kind consideration.

Please reply off list to asychis@aol.com.

Jerry Michels


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Vol. 13 has the article your refer to, however there are no brake linkage
diagrams in the article. The most helpful information is a photo of the
underbody of the Sunshine model showing the triple valve, brake cylinder,
and reservoir all mounted on the left side of the sill. Your best bet may be
to get a scanned copy of the Sunshine instruction sheet.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars





Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one
that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on
these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or
did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom








-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3511 - Release Date: 03/16/11


Re: Underframe of Milwaukee ribside cars

Thomas Baker
 

Although I have a few of the Prototype Cyclopedias, I do not have the one that featured the Milwaukee Road ribside box cars. Was the underframe on these cars identical to those on the AAR cars on the same time period? Or did the Milwaukee have its own distinctive underframe?

Tom


Re: William Raia Contact Info

Gary Roe
 

Pat,

Nope. Different guy. Bill Raia sells photos. I saw him just a few months
ago.

gary

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Patrick Wilkinson
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:44 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: William Raia Contact Info




Isn't this the same guy who owned Custom Finishing Models or something
similar-they made all those white metal M.O.W. kits?

If it is I am pretty sure he died a year or so ago.

Pat Wilkinson


Re: William Raia Contact Info

Patrick Wilkinson <glgpat@...>
 

Isn't this the same guy who owned Custom Finishing Models or something
similar-they made all those white metal M.O.W. kits?



If it is I am pretty sure he died a year or so ago.



Pat Wilkinson


Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC

al_brown03
 

Remind me please, someone: what "dimensional" data did the AAR require for interchange? Just LD LMT and LT WT as on the Pacemaker cars in RP CYC 8, or was there supposed to be more?

-- tia --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Mar 16, 2011, at 7:37 PM, Steve Hoxie wrote:

RP CYC 8, pg. 90, NYC 174710 in Pacemaker colors, reporting marks
and LD LMT and LT WT (no scale station or date) in black, no
dimensional data. Photo credit: "George Sisk photo taken at Kansas
City, Missouri, circa 1948. Charles E. Winters collection."
Yes, Steve, I have that photo,but it doesn't prove that Pacemaker
cars routinely visited Kansas City. I'll bet George said "Wow, look
at that" and took the photo because he'd never seen one before.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ERIE/EL gondolas

Schuyler Larrabee
 

If they were listed in the '59 ORER as specially equipped, then they were
used that way by the ERIE, as the merger with the Lackawanna wasn't until
1960.


SGL



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:48 AM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com; bbfcl@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] ERIE/EL gondolas






No date on the photo, appears to be 1960 -- but this car
is listed in the 1959 ORER as being specially equipped to
carry export crates

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie15850lba.jpg

This is the first time I've seen a drop-end Greenville
gondola loaded with coke containers. I wonder if Erie also
used the cars this way?

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el14100lba.jpg

Tim O'Connor








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Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2011, at 7:37 PM, Steve Hoxie wrote:

RP CYC 8, pg. 90, NYC 174710 in Pacemaker colors, reporting marks
and LD LMT and LT WT (no scale station or date) in black, no
dimensional data. Photo credit: "George Sisk photo taken at Kansas
City, Missouri, circa 1948. Charles E. Winters collection."
Yes, Steve, I have that photo,but it doesn't prove that Pacemaker
cars routinely visited Kansas City. I'll bet George said "Wow, look
at that" and took the photo because he'd never seen one before.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC

pennsylvania1954
 

RP CYC 8, pg. 90, NYC 174710 in Pacemaker colors, reporting marks and LD LMT and LT WT (no scale station or date) in black, no dimensional data. Photo credit: "George Sisk photo taken at Kansas City, Missouri, circa 1948. Charles E. Winters collection."

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC

 

Several years ago, prior to 2005, when I worked at K-Val Hobbies in Buffalo, I talked to the people at Kadee about doing a PS-1 boxcar in Pacemaker colors. They opted not to because they could not accurately model the car using their existing patterns, etc. Hugh T. Guillaume

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The 1955 and 1959 ORER's show no special restrictions on any of the
cars known to be in Pacemaker colors. Certainly with full AAR compliant
lettering the cars would be accepted without question in interchange,
and then they'd be treated like any other 40 foot plain box cars as
far as returning towards their home road -- i.e. they might not go
back to NYC rails for some time. I have seen only a few images of NYC
cars in Pacemaker schemes; numerically they were only a tiny fraction
of all NYC box cars. So Richard and Jim could both be right -- I've seen
no evidence the cars were magically restricted to on-line service only,
but I've also seen no 1950's images of them off-line. If modelers of
non-NYC railroads want to be cautious, then don't use them -- there are
plenty of other NYC box cars to choose from that definitely were commonly
seen off-line.

Kadee will probably never do the 848-B cars, which were PS-1's with
cushioned underframes. Intermountain could have chosen to do these
since they make a PS-1, and they are generally indifferent about
minor details like underframes. :-)

( In the era we don't talk about, the Pacemaker cars definitely went all
over, and some were restenciled (patched) with PC lettering. )

Tim O'Connor




As a CASO NYC modeler, this statement jarred me a little. It was certainly the original intent of the NYC that these cars not go off-line, and the minimal reporting data on the first few paint schemes was designed to discourage interchange. However, the "post-1960" paint scheme (offered by Intermountain) had full reporting marks, and research shows those cars were no longer in restricted service.

To quote from Terry Link's "Canada Southern" website (the NYC master roster, specifically):

"Lot 848-B cars delivered in Pacemaker paint including complete dimensional data in black - these were the only cars built new in the PACEMAKER scheme - delivered in 1954. In September/October 1955, the oval "System" herald had the black background return. Complete dimensional data added to cars that were not fully repainted - usually in white paint."

Basically, the "pacemaker" fast-freight "less than carload" service had been abandoned after a few years, and the cars after September/October 1955 had repaints that definitely released them in to unrestricted service.

The lot 848-B cars of 1954 had apparently never been exclusively in restricted service but as they had 8' doors they are not the model Intermountain is offering.

With the end of the Pacemaker service, high speed trucks were replaced with "normal" freight car trucks, and higher-capacity springs reinstalled on many cars.

Even when the cars lacked full reporting marks, they were apparently constantly drifting off-line.

In short, many of the Intermountain cars would be appropriate for almost any 1950's and especially 1960's layout - especially the model of the most recent of the 4 schemes offered. By putting full reporting marks on the next most recent 1955 scheme, they would probably be more prototypical for "foreign" road use... although apparently even a car still sporting the original 1945/6 scheme could have merely had reporting marks painted on and then been released in to the general freight car pool. For layouts in the 1945-mid 50's time frame, the first two Intermountain schemes would probably be OK "as is".

The only scheme offered by Intermountain that seems to perhaps have a mistake to me is the third, "1955", scheme. It seems from Terry Link's information that any car painted after September/October 1955 would have had full reporting marks. But perhaps not, since it looks like somebody at Intermountain definitely researched these schemes. For example, in the release drawings, only the 1960 renumber scheme shows NYC lot # above the oval (which upon checking out available photos, appears to be correct).

Jim Yaworsky

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