I suggest you forward this email to the Southern Railway Historical
Association and see if they can shed some light on your request.
That is a new one on me but I'm far from an expert on Southern Rolling
stock.
Regards,
Fenton
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 11:32 PM, david <dguillaudeu@cox.net> wrote:

I have come across a small published photo of what appears to be a Southern
box car being used in a milk run on the Washington and Old Dominion Railway.
The photo is from the 1920 era. The W&OD was running on tracks leased from
the Southern at that time. The box car has four or five vertically riveted
panels on each side of the door. The door construction is a little unusual
(not one I have seen before). Similar to an outside braced box car, the door
has outside bracing creating the impression of three horizontal panels.

I would like to make a model of this car if I can find some plans. Any
suggestions?

David Guillaudeu

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 12:58 AM 3/20/2011 -0000, you wrote:

In 1970, with the demise of the NYC only two years in the past, there was

NO real need to pay any attention to railfans or model railroaders. But
now I think things are very different. The NYC, and the Pennsy too, have
been gone since 1968. It is highly unlikely that ANYONE born after 1953
can remember ever seeing an actual NYC or Pennsy train.

Well I was born in 1957 and I rode the NYC and the Pennsy, and saw hundreds
of trains of both - PRR mostly in Cincinnati, NYC mostly in Hammond but
some in Cincinnati. I certainly missed the good part, but I did become a
fan of both in my youth and my modeling interests reflect that.

I think that if the NYCSHS is going to survive more than another few years

it MUST adopt a very model-friendly posture and it MUST do so NOW. I think
ALL railroad historical societies MUST do this.

I realize that many historians - including some of the most knowledgable -
are not modelers. But I think modeling has certainly attained more
respectability due to the efforts of modelers and manufacturers in recent
years to make accurate models.

I joined the NYCHS in the mid 1980s, when I was focusing on passenger
modeling, but I ended up getting most of my information from other sources,
and let my membership lapse. I would like to support all RR historical
societies, but it's not practical for me to belong to every one that I have
an interest in. However, the NYC is near the top of my list so it's
something to consider.

I also obtained the Morning Sun NYC color guide recently and I'm enjoying
it very much. Most of my freight car modeling is outside the scope of this
list, but many of the cars themselves are not. Attending the convention
isn't an option for me, but maybe I can draft an email to support the cause
of modelers. Best of luck in your quest.

Andy

May I point out that Broadway has some new pictures of their NYC boxes on their site. They appear to be improved, but yet still fall far short of excellent. Myself, I prefer excellent.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Bill,



Classic Metal Works has made a few nice Ford cars (mid 30s) and White trucks
(1942 and later)for the period you're asking about. The Williams Bros. had
some nice plastic Fords cars for approximately 1940 and Jordon makes cars
and trucks that fit your time period. One of the best suppliers, in my
opinion, is Sylvan Models. They make quite a few different models of cars
from the mid-late 1930s and some excellent 1930-40 trucks. And Athern made
models of Ford trucks from the mid-1920s. There are also a few cars from
Ricko and European manufactures that will work. Sheepscot Models makes a few
resin models of heavy trucks that require some effort to create, but are
well worth the effort. There are probably a few more, especially the Russian
Premo line of military vehicles that are based on the 1930 Autocar. I bought
a dozen or so and modified them to make a number of different heavy duty
trucks appropriate for the mid and late 1930s. Almost forgot, Woodland
Scenics makes a decent model of the late 1930s Mack mid-duty trucks. Much
more could be done with it than has been done so far.



A lot more types could be done, but so far most manufacturers seem to not
realize that trucks from the 1930-41 period made up a significant % of the
vehicles in service until well into the early 1950s. Hope this helps.





Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hman195611766
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:26 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] OT cars & trucks





I'm Not sure just where to post this question so I'm going to cross-post it
to all of the groups I'm in.

I'm looking for a sorce for ho scale cars & Trucks RTR, in the 1920's
-1940's

Please contact me off list with any help.

Bill Hodkinson

I have come across a small published photo of what appears to be a Southern box car being used in a milk run on the Washington and Old Dominion Railway. The photo is from the 1920 era. The W&OD was running on tracks leased from the Southern at that time. The box car has four or five vertically riveted panels on each side of the door. The door construction is a little unusual (not one I have seen before). Similar to an outside braced box car, the door has outside bracing creating the impression of three horizontal panels.

I would like to make a model of this car if I can find some plans. Any suggestions?

David Guillaudeu

Bill....

For a look at HO scale vehicles from the 30s and 40s check out the
following web sites:
_www.classicmetalworks.com_ (http://www.classicmetalworks.com)
_www.sheepscotscale.com_ (http://www.sheepscotscale.com)
_www.isp.on.ca/sylvan_ (http://www.isp.on.ca/sylvan)
_www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/cars.html_
(http://www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/cars.html)

Richard Bale
Read Model Railroad Hobbyist magaZine, its always FREE at
_www.mrhmag.com


_ (http://www.mrhmag.com)

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

Think about the paperwork for a sec: Farmer Brown puts his 30 steers in the
hands of the SP for transit to the public stockyards in Salt Lake City.
Less than 28 hours later, the SP stops an unloads Farmer Brown's steers for
rest. Once unloaded, how do they know which 30 (nice and fat) steers are
Brown's... and not those 30 old, scrawny, dried up dairy cows Jones has
shipped? Probably the waybill. Some kind of paperwork has to go with the
steers; they have to be in their own pen; they have to continue to their
intended destination. Something has to be done to link Brown's shipment
with the pen Brown's steers are in. No other way would ensure Brown gets
the right auction price in SLC. Does that particular paperwork include the
Car Initial and Number? I dunno, but I'll bet it does. I would imagine
what is used is the waybill. After all, Brown was there when his steers
were loaded; he, like most other consignors, checked his car and was
satisfied *that* car was good.

Rest time has passed and Brown's steers are reloaded. Which is easier for
the people doing the work -- put the steers into the same car as they
arrived OR put them in any car and mess with the waybill (copy to Brown?)?
I'll wager it is the former, just as Schuyler describes, below. It's just
easier.

Dave Nelson

Dave,
A few comments on your post. First of all, remember that in the steam era, cattle were branded, and brands were registered with the respective states stockmen's associations. This is to prevent exactly the situation that you describe above. Being caught altering brands (essentially, stealing livestock) was not good for one's health!

Second, cattle shipments were often accompanied by either the rancher or his representatives (drovers) all the way to their final destination, again to supervise the loading and unloading of the livestock. I am most familiar with the Great Northern, and they had several ancient coaches that were provided for "drover cars". I know other roads used cabooses, etc. These make for some interesting models.

Third, I have several Thirties era bills of lading from the GN that are for shipments of cattle from the southwest in SP/T&NO stockcars, with routing specified SP/UP/GN (the interchange in Butte, MT), so obviously the originating car was used for the entire trip, at least in these instances.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, IA

I am a Director of the NYCSHS and I am a model railroader too. I have a 14'x16' HO layout based roughly on the NYC in Pennsylvania coal country.

Quite a few fellow directors are also model railroaders so one would think that the NYCSHS would position itself so as to do all that it could to promote prototypically-correct modeling of the NYCS. I don't think it does, but that is my opinion and mine alone.

The problem, as I see it, and I speak ONLY for myself, not for any or all of the other eleven directors, is that the NYCSHS was founded by a small group of former NYC employees. Their intent was to establish a historical society - period.

In 1970, with the demise of the NYC only two years in the past, there was NO real need to pay any attention to railfans or model railroaders. But now I think things are very different. The NYC, and the Pennsy too, have been gone since 1968. It is highly unlikely that ANYONE born after 1953 can remember ever seeing an actual NYC or Pennsy train.

I think that if the NYCSHS is going to survive more than another few years it MUST adopt a very model-friendly posture and it MUST do so NOW. I think ALL railroad historical societies MUST do this.

The NYCSHS board meets on April 28th in Albany NY. The annual general membership meeting of the NYCSHS takes place in the evening, after dinner, on April 30th.

I am positive that the subject you folks have been discussing will be on the agenda. I cannot predict whether or not there will be any change in the current policy vis-a-vis manufacturers of model railroad equipment. I sure hope the board will become a lot more model-friendly but it might not. It will help a lot if NYCSHS menbers show up for the general meeting on April 30th. Members can attend the general meeting whether or not they have registered for the convention.

Also, people with an interest or opinion can go to the NYCSHS website and use the contact button to send a message. All messages are read and most are distributed to the entire board. nycshsociety@yahoo.com

Hugh T. Guillaume
Director, NYCSHS

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jon Miller <atsf@...> wrote:

Then as now I assume there were many laws that "had no teeth".
This meaning that they are on paper but have no criminal penalties or
way to extract money associated with them.

These weren't "laws". The were the provisions of a voluntary agreement between the railroads.

Dennis

Rich
 
My notes have PH-29 as a sheep & hog train west.
PH in this case for Pan Handle-29 I have nothing
further,or, a reference to where the note orginated.
Wish I coould be more help on this one.
 
Fred Freitas


From: "SUVCWORR@aol.com" <SUVCWORR@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Foreign Road Stock Cars (was Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC)


 

Greg,

According to 1952 freight car schedules, PRR was running the following east bound livestock trains:

SW-8 rest and water at Columbus no stop Herr's Island

PH-10 lives stock block terminated Herr's Island

VL-6 live stock block terminated Herr's Island

NW-86 rest water feed Columbus no work Herr's Island

NW-88 rest water feed Columbus no work Herr's Island

WS-8 block 2 live stock terminate Herr's Island block 3 continue to Enola without rest etc

FW-8 drop block at Herr;s Island pick-up rested live stock from VL-6, PH-10, WS-8, PH-29 and previous day FW-8.

Looks like the only live stock train beyond Herr's Island that worked Herr's Island was FW-8

So if wheel reports or consists of FW-8 can be located your question should be answered.

SW-8, NW-86, NW-88 would need to show consists from Columbus.

I don't know what PH-29 is. It is not in the freight schedule and should be an west bound or south bound train.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: tgregmrtn@aol.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Foreign Road Stock Cars (was Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC)

Dave wrote:
"Greg,
I do not want to re-open the entire fleet balance debate, but I have not yet
esearched what a viable mix of stock cars would be on a PRR stock train (e.g.
an-of-war) in central Pennsylvania (after resting the east bound animals at
err Island in Pittsburgh).
I guess the generic question is, once a stock car is loaded with stock that is
estined for a specific location, could that car be replaced when the stock was
emoved for rest/feeding/car cleaning at an intermediate location, or would the
ar and its stock go all the way to the destination?
I would think this would govern whether western road stock cars make it east of
err Island. I need to start identifying what models to buy.
Are there any era dependencies? I am modeling WWII.
Thanks,
ave Evans"

did a little research on the rail miles (current no era specific) and it shows
hat CHGO to Newark, NJ (not exactly the slaughter houses) show to be 898 miles
Greenville Docks, NJ is the same). If I do the math using 21 miles per hour as
he rule (stock would/should move faster than manifest freight) then it would
ake approximately 43 hours to make the move and would be outside the AAR rules
nd thus the stock would have to be rested and feed at Herr Island, PA
Pittsburgh, PA). But AAR records show during the WW2 era that train speeds were
igher than in most other eras. I believe when it comes to Herr Island you have
o think in terms of first in first out...

ut in my era of the mid 50s photo evidence shows that (dare I say this) most
ars returning west (great shots crossing the Rockville Bridge) were of western
rigin, not all just most. One need only search the pages of the Don Ball books
s well as the Don Wood's book to see that there was less than one would expect
f home road cars. I have found good evidence that the UP cars held down a
remendous amount of the business (related to car supply) and an abnormally low
mount of PRR cars show up. I was inspired to do my Shake N Take UP S-40-10 car
n DLS paint based on a photo in Don Wood's book taken on the Middle Div.
railing an L&N Mathers stock car, trailing a PRR Mountain headed west. Then in
he late fifties as the PRR began to take the stock business more seriously and
ith the rebuilding program to the K9 and K11 program the worm turns so to say.
e (SPF's) all realize that this business supported the fledgling Truc/Trailer
rain program. In my stock car fleet it i
s doubtful that I will even bother to represent a PRR car in my empty/loaded
ar fleet.
I have never done more than photo research and would love to see the accounting
ecords during the transition era to see exactly where the PRR K class cars
erived there per diem as they just don't really show up in on line photos other
han parked... go figure.and the then compare the off line cars accounting
chedules.
Greg Martin

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

By what means and by whom were the fines levied? There was absolutley no system in place for penalties within the structure of the ARA/AAR Interchange or Car Service Rules at least within the scope of the STMFC.

Then as now I assume there were many laws that "had no teeth".
This meaning that they are on paper but have no criminal penalties or
way to extract money associated with them.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Greg,

According to 1952 freight car schedules, PRR was running the following east bound livestock trains:

SW-8 rest and water at Columbus no stop Herr's Island

PH-10 lives stock block terminated Herr's Island

VL-6 live stock block terminated Herr's Island

NW-86 rest water feed Columbus no work Herr's Island

NW-88 rest water feed Columbus no work Herr's Island

WS-8 block 2 live stock terminate Herr's Island block 3 continue to Enola without rest etc

FW-8 drop block at Herr;s Island pick-up rested live stock from VL-6, PH-10, WS-8, PH-29 and previous day FW-8.

Looks like the only live stock train beyond Herr's Island that worked Herr's Island was FW-8

So if wheel reports or consists of FW-8 can be located your question should be answered.

SW-8, NW-86, NW-88 would need to show consists from Columbus.

I don't know what PH-29 is. It is not in the freight schedule and should be an west bound or south bound train.

Rich Orr

And Dave, I know that the SP, T&NO, MK&T and other Texas roads would ship watermelons in stock cars too.

- Steve Hedlund, Silver Lake, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: tnbirke@sbcglobal.net
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:48:02 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Foreign Road Stock Cars






I wonder if SIT, "Storage in Transit" was in place? If so the original bill-of -lading might be used. In this way a through rate would apply, from origin to destination even though there might be a storage period of some duration in the middle of the move. This worked for grain in the era before 1960 and after. "Milling in transit" was similar for wheat and other products, mostly agricultural

Tom

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, guycwilber@... wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:

<<By AAR interchange rules the cars were not to be interchanged (or accepted at interchange) but the fines would be levied to the Home Road for allowing the crew to interchange the car. If the fines were levied they would be minor for the first infraction. There was always the UMLER or ORER to define the car more clearly once offline.>>



By what means and by whom were the fines levied? There was absolutley no system in place for penalties within the structure of the ARA/AAR Interchange or Car Service Rules at least within the scope of the STMFC.

That was my impression... during the steam era the only recourse the receiving road had was to refuse the car... and if it did so, the NYC would have to send it to the RIP track, spot another car, and hire a gang of labors to transfer the load to the new car, providing supervision for the work so the load wasn't pilfered.

Or, someone of suitable authority on the NYC could just call his counterpart on the connecting road and remind him about the last time they'd accepted a junk car from HIM, and all would be good in the world.

The only place the car was likely to cause a problem would be returning the car under load, IF the new shipper needed the light weight of the car... and that was the problem of neither of the two gentlemen listed above.

Dennis

I looked all over trying to find a complete set but was never successful. I came to believe that the neither the ARA nor MCBA ever published a complete lettering set. I've gone into the original MCBA minutes (1905, I believe), and all that was published were a few examples of fonts--the same examples that appear in later Car Builders' Dictionaries/Cyclopedias. If anyone comes up with a set, I'd sure like to see them.

Bob Karig

The hotel does have a shuttle service between the Metra Station and the hotel.

Bob

I'm Not sure just where to post this question so I'm going to cross-post it to all of the groups I'm in.

I'm looking for a sorce for ho scale cars & Trucks RTR, in the 1920's -1940's

Please contact me off list with any help.

Bill Hodkinson

Is there a special rate code at the hotel?

Stuart A. Forsyth
On Mar 19, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Rhbale@aol.com wrote:

RPM-Naperville has found a new home.
The 2011 event will be held October 20-22 at the Hickory Ridge Marriott in
Lisle, Illinois. (call 630-971-5000 for reservations). Lisle is located
about 5 miles east of downtown Naperville.

Richard Bale
News Editor
Read Model Railroad Hobbyist magaZine, its always FREE at
_www.mrhmag.com_ (http://www.mrhmag.com)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great news Richard. Finally! Now I can make my Amtrak reservations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

Think about the paperwork for a sec: Farmer Brown puts his 30 steers in the
hands of the SP for transit to the public stockyards in Salt Lake City.
Less than 28 hours later, the SP stops an unloads Farmer Brown's steers for
rest. Once unloaded, how do they know which 30 (nice and fat) steers are
Brown's... and not those 30 old, scrawny, dried up dairy cows Jones has
shipped? Probably the waybill. Some kind of paperwork has to go with the
steers; they have to be in their own pen; they have to continue to their
intended destination. Something has to be done to link Brown's shipment
with the pen Brown's steers are in. No other way would ensure Brown gets
the right auction price in SLC. Does that particular paperwork include the
Car Initial and Number? I dunno, but I'll bet it does. I would imagine
what is used is the waybill. After all, Brown was there when his steers
were loaded; he, like most other consignors, checked his car and was
satisfied *that* car was good.

Rest time has passed and Brown's steers are reloaded. Which is easier for
the people doing the work -- put the steers into the same car as they
arrived OR put them in any car and mess with the waybill (copy to Brown?)?
I'll wager it is the former, just as Schuyler describes, below. It's just
easier.

Dave Nelson