I talked to Martin and Patricia Lofton about this and they prefer that I not
add instructions & PDFs for Sunshine kits to my site.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

Actually, thinking of the example, are these something that should be
available on the site that hosts the Sunshine Price list? It already has
flyers. Seems like instructions could fit right in there too.

Dave Nelson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Guys,
This is a great example of how this list fosters cooperation, but can you

take working the details off list?  Not everyone cares about the nust snad
bolts of this.

Jordan Highway Miniatures make a number of pre 50s motor car and truck kits.

Cheers

Dave North

Thank you Mitch.
I would like to hear from him.
I'm sure there are photos somewhere of the car as purchased from Ortner.
Rich

I sort of hate to get into this since copyright issues crop up on STMFC from
time to time and tend to get into long threads which don't really solve
anything.



BUT,



The NYCSHS can control access to a drawing all they want by requiring that
you pay a fee for reproduction. Not reproduction rights, but simply for
reproduction, getting a print made and mailed to you. IMHO, they then have
ZERO rights to tell you what you can do with that print, whether it's a
photo print, a drawing, an order, a letter, or any other sort of document.
They can ask that you credit the Society, which is easy enough to do and a
common civility, but if you want to use a drawing to make a master model,
which is then cast in resin, or make an injection molding die, so you can
crank out a thousand of some box car or whatever, they have no rights to
require any sort of profit split or anything else. UNLESS they have a
legitimate copyright in the document to begin with, meaning it was created
after a specific date and they received, specifically, the copyright when
they acquired the item. And even then, it's not so clear cut as all that.



I created drawings of the ERIE's 0-6-0s. (OK, a peculiar obsession of mine,
I admit) by getting drawings from at least four different historical
societies/archives/collections. There is a lot of work involved in doing
this. One literally becomes a "rivet counter." People asked me when I
found the time. My answer was between 10 PM and 2 AM for about two years.
The drawings were published in two issues of The Diamond, the ELHS magazine,
and carried the legend "Copyright Schuyler Larrabee (date)." I was advised
by competent legal counsel that the copyright only meant that someone
couldn't take those drawings and claim them as their own. It did NOT mean
that I had any rights to any models that might be created from the drawings.



Oh, sure, I might expect that a manufacturer might offer me a model or two
as appreciation for the work that I'd done and the assistance I would have
gladly offered during the development of the model. But they would not be
under any obligation to do so. It would only be through the good graces of
their hearts.



The agreement that NYCSHS would like you to sign is probably worthless and
an illegal, unenforceable contract.

SGL (NOT a lawyer, but good friends with several)



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 2:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pacemaker boxcar usage off-line of NYC - NYCSHS





Kurt,

I would remind you that if you do not control the copyright on
something, then the way to "control" it is by restricting access. Thus,
if the NYCHS decides that they wish to control access to a drawing that
they own, but for which they do not hold the copyright, they are well
within their rights to require that anyone aquiring copies from them
sign an agreement that requires the purchaser to do whatever NYCHS
dictates in order to gain access, including paying royalties on
subsequent models. The requirements detailed by Denis indicate that
someone or a group at the NYCSHS think that somehow the NYCSHS'
resources are a "cash cow" that should be milked.

OTOH, the PRRT&HS and the PRRT&HS Modeling Committee strive to assist
manufacturers to identify exactly those drawings that might be needed
for a given project and the PRRT&HS even offers a manufacturers
membership which provides discounted rates on access to drawings in the
society's collection. No royalty agreements are asked for and no
royalties are paid. Although the PRRT&HS does not request them, model
are sometimes provided by manufacturers to the PRRT&HS which then
raffles them at the annual meeting.

This is not a "red team" versus "green team" thing, as the PRRT&HS was
in the same situation as the NYCSHS 15-20 years ago, when modelers felt
decidedly unwelcome by the "powers that be". However, some members,
mostly younger modelers, stuck it out and gradually changed the focus of
the PRRT&HS to included modelers (in addition to employees and
historians) and the society is definitely the better for it. Hopefully
the NYCSHS can continue to make progress in a similar direction.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@verizon.net <mailto:fleeta%40verizon.net> >

03/19/11 9:17 PM >>>
It's more a matter of what "they" are missisng: an understanding of
intelectual property laws, particularly with regard to copyrights. Not
uncommon, unfortunately. In the military vehicle world there are
several
libraries claiming copyright to photographs that have the US Army Signal

Corps emblem in the corner!

(Government photographs are "born" in the public domain. It's not that
the
Government claims copyright and lets us use it free, it's that they are
not
protectable at all.)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: pullmanboss

I work with the Newberry Library and am very familiar with their fee
structure and terms of use. I have redrawn a multitude of floor plan,
underneath equipment and side elevation drawings from Pullman originals
in
the Newberry files and am not in violation of the Newberry's terms of
use
when those (re)drawings show up in kit instructions. What am I missing
when
it comes to the NYCHS?

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links







=======
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17150)
http://www.pctools.com/
=======

David,

CRECo = Chicago Railway Equipment Company

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"david" <dguillaudeu@cox.net> 03/21/11 8:15 PM >>>

Aidrian,

Thank you for the suggestion. The name on the side of the car could be
Pennsylvania, I just would not have expected a Pennsylvania car to be
used in a house service such as milk can collection.

I searched for Creco doors and found some models. I agree with your
suggestion. I checked my DVD of the 1922 car builders' cyclopedia. I did
not find Creco in it. Can you give me a little more info on them?

David

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Aidrian & Susie Bridgeman-Sutton
<smokeandsteam@...> wrote:

I have come across a small published photo of what appears to be a

Southern box car being used in a milk run on the Washington and Old
Dominion Railway. The photo is from the 1920 era. The W&OD was running
on tracks leased from the Southern at that time. The box car has four or
five vertically riveted panels on each side of the door. The door
construction is a little unusual (not one I have seen before). Similar
to an outside braced box car, the door has outside bracing creating the
impression of three horizontal panels. <<

David

I don't think this description fits any Southern prototype from the

1920s.

What you describe might be a Creco door, and perhaps it might be a PRR

or NYC car? Both had steel cars with Creco doors in this period

Aidrian

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Aidrian,

Thank you for the suggestion. The name on the side of the car could be Pennsylvania, I just would not have expected a Pennsylvania car to be used in a house service such as milk can collection.

I searched for Creco doors and found some models. I agree with your suggestion. I checked my DVD of the 1922 car builders' cyclopedia. I did not find Creco in it. Can you give me a little more info on them?

David

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Robert D. Heninger wrote

Second, cattle shipments were often accompanied by either the rancher or his
representatives (drovers) all the way to their final destination, again to
supervise the loading and unloading of the livestock.

Is that really the case? I thought that drovers typically accompanied livestock
only as far as larger livestock markets i.e. stock "yards", where the livestock
could be auctioned off. Once the livestock was sold, then in most cases it would
have travelled directly to the slaughterhouse where I'm sure the buyer had people
who knew how to handle livestock.

Chickens of course were an exception. :-)

Tim O'Connor

Tim,
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my statement. By "final destination" I did mean the stock yard where the cattle were sold by the rancher. The stockyard I am most familiar with in West Fargo, ND was immediately adjacent to an Armour packing plant, so the livestock did not require rail transport to their literal final destination. I believe many packing plants were similarly situated, were they not?

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger

Very clever John, it looks like an elegant solution. You'd better
patent that in a hurry before someone else does! :-)

Tim O'Connor

Which placard is correct for LPG or Propane in the late 1940s, "Compressed Gas" or "Inflammable" (or another one that I can't even read)? I have the Microscale decal set #87-975 with the "transition era freight car placards".

Thank you.

Lou WHiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

The cars are mentioned in a history of the G&F, Rails Through the Wiregrass, published by the Northern Illinois Press. Since the road was never ever in decent financial shape, the Douglas, GA shops often improvised in building such freight equipment. These cards were meant for use on-line, for animal feed, as the road had no credit after WW II. That's all that's said about the cars.

Riley Kinney

Hi Guy,
That will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much and best regards,
Tom Palmer

Also per Goolsby: these were originally the Hercules Powder 1002 series, built 1929-31 (builder not stated), acquired by AB&C (52001-52006) in 1941 via Georgia Car & Locomotive. They became ACL 86000-86005 after merger (1/1/46), appear as such (all six cars) in the 1/53 ORER.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Carl (and all),

Sergent couplers CAN be made to center like Kadee couplers if the modeler prefers. I have only built a working prototype in S scale, but it should be just as easy to build in HO. Have a look at the following links : (5 images and 1 video)

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCenteringSpring01.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCenteringSpring02.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCenteringSpring03.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCenteringSpring04.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCenteringSpring05.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SergentCentering.AVI

Using a standard Kadee #802/808 gear box as a test platform, I cut to length and width, then notched a "V" shape into a short length of white styrene to fit inside the Kadee gear box behind the shank of the Sergent Engineering coupler. I then cut a phosphor-bronze strip to a length of just shy of the inner width as the Kadee gear box, and inserted it between the rear of the Sergent coupler's shank and the shaped styrene block. The idea was that the prosphor-brinze strip would press against the flat rear surface of the coupler and force it to center.

It worked (works) like a CHAMP!

Howzat?


John
Scaler164@comcast.net
The Seaboard Air Line Information Collective and Photo Archive
www.trainweb.org/seaboard

I don't have that publication, are there photos on line anywhere? Does anyone
know how many were originally built of this car design?  Todd Horton




________________________________
From: al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:31:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Georgia & Florida LOs

 
There's a photo of AB&C 52001 in Goolsby's "Atlanta Birmingham & Coast", p 221.
When did G&F acquire them?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Todd Horton <toddchorton@...> wrote:

Do any better photos of these cars exist?   G&F rolling stock photos are hard
to

find. Todd Horton


________________________________
From: jaydeet2001 <jaydeet2001@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:11:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Georgia & Florida LOs

 
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Valoczy" <destron@> wrote:

I recently saw a photo (scan of a slide, rather poor quality, i.e. very
small) of a strange-looking Georgia & Florida covered hopper:

http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/2659

One of those wacky boogers. AB&A had six of those purchased secondhand in 1941.

IIRC they were very early (late 1920s) cement hoppers originally owned by a
private owner.

David Thompson

There's a photo of AB&C 52001 in Goolsby's "Atlanta Birmingham & Coast", p 221. When did G&F acquire them?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Do any better photos of these cars exist?   G&F rolling stock photos are hard to
find. Todd Horton


________________________________
From: jaydeet2001 <jaydeet2001@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:11:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Georgia & Florida LOs

 
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Valoczy" <destron@...> wrote:

I recently saw a photo (scan of a slide, rather poor quality, i.e. very
small) of a strange-looking Georgia & Florida covered hopper:

http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/2659

One of those wacky boogers. AB&A had six of those purchased secondhand in 1941.
IIRC they were very early (late 1920s) cement hoppers originally owned by a
private owner.

David Thompson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Valoczy" <destron@...> wrote:

I recently saw a photo (scan of a slide, rather poor quality, i.e. very
small) of a strange-looking Georgia & Florida covered hopper:

http://www.ttnut.com/resources/image/2659

One of those wacky boogers. AB&A had six of those purchased secondhand in 1941. IIRC they were very early (late 1920s) cement hoppers originally owned by a private owner.

David Thompson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Guys;

I remember seeing tarped loads close up, and those I saw were held in place
with long strips of wood nailed to the deck or floor. The nails went right
through the wood and tarp. The excess tarp appeared to have been folded
under the wood so no excess tarp would flap around, maybe?

I know one of the cast-resin-lump "covered load" offerings in HO scale had this practice incorporated into the casting... although maybe there was some "excess tarp" beyond the "wood" strip. Don't remember the brand but they were yellow-beige (I know that doesn't narrow it down much.)
Scott Pitzer

Speaking merely as an observer, not an active participant: I was born in
1955. I observed a NYC train with F units with the lightning bolt gray
paint scheme running across a bridge in 1966. I observed the workings of a
NYC local train on the old West Shore line in Frankfort and Mohawk, NY in
1964-1968. It may be just a happy coincidence, but I think that some of us
born after 1953 saw NYC trains and probably PRR trains, too.

Regards,
William Bryk

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>wrote:

It is highly unlikely that ANYONE born after 1953 can remember
ever seeing an actual NYC or Pennsy train. Hugh T. Guillaume

Hugh, did you mean to say 1963, instead of 1953?? I was born in 1953
and watched PRR and PRSL trains as a steady part of my boyhood for seven
years before the PRR-NYC merger. I was keenly aware of the merger as a
teenager, and remember reading the TIME magazine article that featured
the merger as a cover article; of course I read every TRAINS issue too,
including back issues. I'm sure many others born before 1963 can tell
similar stories.

Tim O'Connor

--
William Bryk
Attorney and Counsellor-at-Law
578 74th Street
Brooklyn, New York 11209-2614
Tel/Fax: (347) 497-5972