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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?
Depends on how far you go forward with your time machine, since these cars
lasted well beyond the boundaries of this list. Probably at least a dozen
variants to the Milwaukee scheme (taking into account what, 7 variants just
of the 40' car) and also at least two distinctly different base colors.

Andy
Re: RTR Resin

Andy Harman
 

At 01:00 AM 4/13/2011 -0000, you wrote:
Rib Side, Intermountain and ExactRail all have ribside box cars.
I haven't figured out why everybody got the hots for that car all at once,
although at least there is some variation. IM's is a short rib car, EXR's
is a long rib. Rib Side has done a bunch of phase variations and paint
variations but their tooling - particularly of the early end - isn't as
nice as EXR's. I need exactly two of these cars, and I've accumulated
um... seven, none of which will do what I want without modification. I'm
tempted to cut the 5-5 ends off the EXR car and graft them onto the IM to
get a phase 2a(?) car like I want, but... I don't know if I want it that
bad....

Andy
Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 06:42 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
What else? How about a multi-dome tank car? (Actually, I think a
multi-dome wine car would do well for all the same reasons pickle cars do
well, and still be useful for the prototype-oriented among us.)

Southern Car & Foundry has a 2-dome kit. Unless multi means more than two.

Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have one -
mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show. I have
no idea if it represents any prototype.

Andy
Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 06:27 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?
I know you built an N&W H2a to run on Sherman Hill, but are you sure that
it wasn't supposed to be an H10? There are not that many freight cars that
are not available, that I need a lot of. That's one of them. Maybe if the
Sherman Hill modelers all get on board, we can get it done :-)

Andy
Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Those MP hoppers could have originated in Texas, and could be
filled with coke made from petroleum. I have a photo showing
three MP, one B&O, and one N&W hopper loaded with petroleum coke
at a Texas refinery.

Tim O'Connor

Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left today after
viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to those on
the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style" hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.

Mike Brock
Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Jerry Michels asks about MP hoppers out West:

Mike, any details on this?
I originally wrote this on March 25, 2008:

Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left today after viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to those on the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style" hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.

Coincidentally, there are photos of other MP hopper cars "lost" out in the
"real west". America's Colorful Railroads shows no less than 2 MT's being
returned eastward on the D&RGW in Tennessee Pass and The Iron Horse and I
shows MP hoppers in...of all places...Laramie, WY.

To add to that and perhaps the strangest example is the long string of MP hoppers on a UP branch line in Utah as shown in the UPHS's The Streamliner. In the east is the MP hopper running from Lorain,OH, "back" to somewhere in West Virginia in a train of mostly B&O hoppers as shown on pg 40 of the book Baltimore & Ohio Trackside with Willis McCaleb...which contains some of the best color photos I have seen. One can surmise that the MP hopper never actually originated in a load in WV...a switching crew merely saying..."To hell with it" when they discovered the MP hopper in a train of very similar B&O hoppers in Lorain.

Mike Brock
Re: RTR Resin

Tim O'Connor
 

That's true Gene, but if Intermountain or Exactrail's entire product
lines were made of duplicates of other products, I don't think they would
still be in business. You can get away with some slow sellers, but you
need some big winners too.

Tim O'

Now wait just a minute.
Rib Side, Intermountain and ExactRail all have ribside box cars.
And everybody and their cousin produces HO scale F7s. The AAR 1937 box car
is available from more than one source.
Gene Green
Re: RTR Resin

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene, without getting into semantics, accuracy about some items is
not subjective: If a car has the wrong type of trucks, doors, brakes,
running boards, lettering errors, etc etc -- then I think it's fair
to see anyone who spots the errors is qualified to say so.

Tim O'Connor

It seems taken for granted in this discussion that only kits are accurate and RTR is only inaccurate. 'Taint so in either case. Besides, who among us is qualified to define 'accurate' for anyone but him- or herself?
Gene Green
Re: Red Caboose Tank car question

Tim O'Connor
 

Besides USAX (USQX?) as an owner of the Red Caboose 10,000 gallon
ICC 103W single-dome tank car, there is also UTLX 39150 (and other
numbers too, no doubt) built by ACF in 1951. This car is almost an
exact match to the kit, if you just add two extra tank bands with
strip styrene.

Tim O'Connor
Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah... But I'd be shocked if a
good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?

Tim O'

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock
Re: Tank car question

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, are you sure about the black paint? I have a 1952 color view
of USAX 10983, and it definitely appears to be dark green -- like DGLE,
or Brunswick Green. The lettering is yellow. I think Proto 2000 (or maybe
Intermountain) did a green USAX tank car.

The "light gray" may be "imitation aluminum" -- the color of UPS trailers.
Some photos show DODX tank cars in an aluminum color, but that's well after
the STMFC era.

Tim O'Connor

-----------------------------------

As has been discussed here a number of times, there are very few
> correct paint schemes for this post WWII welded type 103W car. The
> most common would have been the US Army Transportation Corps. While
> the Transportation Corps did have some cars in a silver scheme, I'm
> not sure that these cars used that scheme. Additional cars were in
> the SHPX lease fleet (probably black), SL-SF and few in other private
> fleets.


Bruce is correct. Many prewar riveted USQX cars were painted
aluminum when new, but AFAIK all of the welded cars were delivered in
black and stayed that way at least until the late 1950s, after the
reporting marks changed to DODX. In the '60s they were repainted
with light gray tanks, but I've never seen any evidence that any of
them were painted aluminum. Red Caboose issued these models in many
colorful oil co, etc. P/L schemes, but to the best of my knowledge
all of them were bogus, based on P/L schemes applied to earlier
riveted tanks. I have photos of tie cars in both black and gray
which could be used as a lettering guide, but I don't know what's
available in the form of decals or dry transfers.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Tank car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 12, 2011, at 5:39 PM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Richard: Oops, didn't see this in your post til now. Maybe they
were repainted light satin gray-- I haven't seen any very fresh
repaint pics to confirm.
Nor have I, which is why I said in my post to Gene Green that I
wouldn't absolutely rule aluminum out, though it sure doesn't look
like it in the color photos I've seen.

Or are there military paint specs available on this?
Not that I'm aware of.

In any event the Red Caboose models do mellow down to a very nice
light gray satin sheen with appropriate weathering and Dullcote.
That's a good point, Chris, and it had occurred to me, though I
didn't say it. All of this is academic, however, if you're a steam/
transition era modeler, when the cars were painted black.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Tennessee Central-Rebuilt USRA 3-Bay Hoppers.

Rich Yoder
 

Hey Guys.
I'm still looking for a few photos of those ex Virginian Tennessee Central
cars.
Sincerely, Rich Yoder

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:04 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fwd: [STMFC] Re: Tennessee Central-Rebuilt USRA 3-Bay Hoppers.

Hopefully Rich Yoder is monitoring this list and will see this news, He was
particuarly interested in the cars as they appeared on the TC and would like
to know how to get a copy of the photo referred to here am sure.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote:



I posted this to the NWHS list; here is the only response.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list@...>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:25:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tennessee Central-Rebuilt USRA 3-Bay Hoppers.


I can't claim to be a guru by any stretch of the imagination, but...these
are the VGN H-5 70 ton cars built to a USRA/ARA (I get confused)design. 
The original design was used by NYC, C&O, and VGN, and had two sawtooth
discharge chutes and a center clamshell.  All three railroads rebuilt these
cars into the three sawtooth chute version.  I believe that C&O's were
rebuilt with peaked or arch ends.  (Al; help!!).  Other than the High
Capacity Gons, these were the largest coal carrying cars on the VGN until
the H-14 70ton triples came in the mid fifties.  There were two of them
left on the Virginian at the time of the N&W merger(per Dow).  When I did
the Virginian Coal Cars clinic I put out a request for any pix of these in
Virginian livery as rebuilt.  A pic of one of the cars on the TC is the
only one that has surfaced to far. 

There is a pretty good picture of one of these in the as built clamshell
version in Hundman's article on the High Capacity gons in one of the last
issues of Mainline Modeler.

With some work the Westerfield NYC (PMckY??)models of either version can
be made into a VGN model. 

Correction or supplementation of the above is welcome, as always.

Frank Bongiovanni


On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:16 AM, NW Mailing List < nw-mailing-list@... >
wrote:






Any VGN gurus have any info on these cars to share?



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----------
 




I will chime in with information that Rich shared with me about these cars
over the weekend. The cars in question were USRA 3-bay hoppers built for the
Virginian (Who Knew?) who sold them to Ortner rather than rebuild them when
the time came. So the cars in question are rebuilt USRA 3-Bay hoppers owned
second hand by the TC, and probably unknown to most of us. Let the detective
work begin.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , "Richard Yoder" <wrote:

Thank you Mitch.
I would like to hear from him.
I'm sure there are photos somewhere of the car as purchased from Ortner.
Rich
 

From: Richard Yoder
Subject: [STMFC] Tennessee Central
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 4:57 PM


I'm looking for someone that may have photos from the Tennessee Central
railroad.
If you know of someone please contact me.
Sincerely, Rich Yoder



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Re: RTR Resin

Dave Nelson
 

Depending on the car, several to many.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
Besides, who among us is qualified to define 'accurate' for anyone but him-
or herself?

Gene Green



------------------------------------
Re: RTR Resin

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Once again I came late to the conversation and repeated a bunch of stuff already better stated by others. Sorry.
Gene Green
Re: RTR Resin

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Now wait just a minute.
Rib Side, Intermountain and ExactRail all have ribside box cars.
And everybody and their cousin produces HO scale F7s. The AAR 1937 box car is available from more than one source.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Garth, not really -- you pointed out Ertl's #1 mistake -- they
produced models that ALREADY EXISTED in resin or plastic. The
cars also were too light, and had terrible trucks and couplers.
Not going to appeal to the RTR crowd that way.

And it was an MEC gondola, not ACL. ACL gons had different ends.

Tim O'Connor
Re: RTR Resin

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

It seems taken for granted in this discussion that only kits are accurate and RTR is only inaccurate. 'Taint so in either case. Besides, who among us is qualified to define 'accurate' for anyone but him- or herself?

Gene Green
Re: Tank car question

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Clark,
USAX or DODX for sure since that was the prototype for the kit. One of those DODX tank cars is on display at Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, NM.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cepropst@... wrote:

A friend picked up a Red Caboose tank car kit in a shop that still has a few kits, Westerfield kits still on the shelf!

The body is silver with data only. He'd like to know what reporting marks would be acceptable.

Thanks!
Clark Propst
Re: Tank car question

leakinmywaders
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
....>any prewar riveted USQX cars were painted
aluminum when new, but AFAIK all of the welded cars were delivered in
black and stayed that way at least until the late 1950s, after the
reporting marks changed to DODX. In the '60s they were repainted
with light gray tanks, but I've never seen any evidence that any of
them were painted aluminum. ....
Richard: Oops, didn't see this in your post til now. Maybe they were repainted light satin gray-- I haven't seen any very fresh repaint pics to confirm. Or are there military paint specs available on this? In any event the Red Caboose models do mellow down to a very nice light gray satin sheen with appropriate weathering and Dullcote.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
Re: Tank car question

leakinmywaders
 

Clark: This car is accurate and ready-made to letter as a USAX or (later) DODX tank car in the silver repaint scheme. (I have done a couple and am still searching for 2 or 3 more of these very kits, to no avail.) But that repaint scheme was mostly beyond the temporal purview of this list. I posted a couple of photos that are still up over on the BBFCL Yahoo Group. Here are the real cars in question:

http://pfe_coi.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2390008

http://pfe_coi.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2390009


Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cepropst@... wrote:

A friend picked up a Red Caboose tank car kit in a shop that still has a few kits, Westerfield kits still on the shelf!

The body is silver with data only. He'd like to know what reporting marks would be acceptable.

Thanks!
Clark Propst
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