Date   

Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

C J Wyatt
 

Thanks Dave, I forgot about the potatoes. I believe Idaho had an early fall
harvest, but there may have been some capability to store the potatoes.
Most GN & NP potato loads originated in the Red River valley --
western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota. I think potatoes and
apples could be stored for several months following the harvest. <<

The Idaho harvest was the first one I found data on. I realized that NP
likely sourced more potatoes from other areas. I did not know about the Red
River Valley, but after Tim's post I found a website on RRV potatoes. Most
of their harvest occurs in September, and they are able to store potatoes up
to ten months. I would guess in the past, they might not be able to store
potatoes as long. However from Clark's post, their capabilities would be
approaching at least a half year back then.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess NP must have kept its fleet busy
enough that they did not need reciprocal agreements with other refrigerator
car operators to meet seasonal demands.

Jack Wyatt


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Does Al sell the X25 ladders separately?

At 01:33 AM 7/7/2002, you wrote:
Tom -I just finished one of these kits and for the most part the quality is
excellent. The lone exception is the ladders. I threw away what came in the
kit and used some from one of Westerfield's PRR X25 cars. They are a dead
match for the rung spacing and 24 inch width of the ladders that were on
these cars. Will buy more of these kits.
Paul Lyons
Oceanside, CA

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Thanks Dave, I forgot about the potatoes. I believe Idaho had an early fall
harvest, but there may have been some capability to store the potatoes.
Most GN & NP potato loads originated in the Red River valley --
western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota. I think potatoes and
apples could be stored for several months following the harvest.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Branchline 40' AAR boxcar Review

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote

The instructions recommend doing the underframe first...
Ah, that was your first mistake! ;o) I almost never look at
instructions anymore for plastic box cars. Assembly of such
cars is pretty obvious if you've built 50 or more of them.

Anyway, one thing I do is desprue everything, examine all of
the parts, test fit the major stuff, and throw out any poorly
rendered or incorrect parts.

Test fitting immediately reveals the problems with the ends.
I insert a small 3-sided file and turn it once or twice in
each hole. Voila, perfect fit. The underframe did not lie
quite flat -- it seemed to have a slight bow. Length problem.
So I turned the file again in the bolster holes creating a
little slop in the fit -- Voila once more.

For smaller holes, I have a full set of reamers. For larger
holes I usually use files rather than drills, unless the hole
is visible on the completed model.

I agree that Branchline's plastic formula is somewhat soft
and crumbly. I pointed this out to Bill a couple of years ago
after assembling my first 50 foot car. The small parts as a
result do require extra care in handling.

I'm doing a couple of Southern Railway 40 foot cars now. The
kit has all the right parts except the running board, which
needs to be Morton, and the handbrake, which was Universal.

I will install Accumate scale draft gear, as is my wont these
days. Before fixing the gear in place, I assemble them and use
a tacky glue to affix them to the body so I can test fit the
coupler height. If necessary, I can then shim or file as
needed before "permanent" attachment (i.e. drilling holes in
the case of the Accumates as the draft gear are made from a
slippery plastic and do not glue.)


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Greg Martin
 

Jeeze I almost forgot the cheese... The world famous Tillamook Cheese... 3^)

Greg Martin
Pac Nor Westerner


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Greg Martin
 

Jack,

Ah yes let's not forget that beer... Olympia "It's the Water and a Lot
More..." My first beer at the ripe age of ahhh, well ahhh... Just remember
it the Water!

Then if you consider the other fruits that are harvested in Eastern
Washington, Pears, Peaches, and the sort and of course their harvest is
slightly later than other more Southern States. And let's not forget those
short seasoned WALLA WALLA Sweet Onions...mmmm. just da best Ma!

Greg Martin
Pac Nor Westerner


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Bert Decker
 

Clark,

Returning empty beer bottles would not be so unusual in an era of 2 cent and
nickel deposits for soda bottles - many is the sherbet I bought with those
returns.

Bert

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer


Jack,
These cars are from the M&StL Fairfax MN agents records. I assume this
beer is
from the Twin Cities and wouldn't have traveled to the southeast. Of
interest
here in that the distributor would collect empty bottles and return them
in the
car they unloaded.
Clark
PS the date is either 47 or 48

NP 90168 BEER RS 91000-91249
NP 90168 EMPTIES RS 91000-91249
NP 90454 BEER RS 91000-91249
NP 90454 EMPTIES RS 91000-91249
NP 92154 BEER RS 92038-92941
NP 92732 BEER RS 92038-92941
NP 92732 EMPTIES RS 92038-92941


Jack Wyatt wrote:

Ever since the NP reefer kits by Norwest came out, I've been intending
to
ask about the NP reefer operations. Since the subject of the kits has
been
brought up, I guess this is as good of a time as ever to ask my
question.

Great Northern, through Western Fruit Express, and CB&Q, through
Burlington
Refrigerator Express, were affiliated with Fruit Growers Express, so
that
the combined fleets could meet the seasonal needs across the larger
territories served. Yet another Hill line, the NP, ran its own
refrigerator
cars. Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe
would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP
make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?

Besides being interested in the general knowledge, for my specific
modeling
situation, would there be much of a chance that one of these cars would
show
up in the Southeast, say March/April 1947?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Jack Wyatt


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Re: PRR Merchandise Service Boxcars

Greg Martin
 

Ben Hom (b.hom@...) writes:

<< We do need to find a better DSMS boxcar shot though - the one of PRR 24168
with the pigeon colony on top of it doesn't make it look like the car
utilization campaign was too successful! ;-)
Ben Hom >>

Your absolutely correct! Perhaps it was a border town where not much English
was spoken or maybe the locals just can't read plain English... 3^)

Greg Martin


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Jack,
These cars are from the M&StL Fairfax MN agents records. I assume this beer is
from the Twin Cities and wouldn't have traveled to the southeast. Of interest
here in that the distributor would collect empty bottles and return them in the
car they unloaded.
Clark
PS the date is either 47 or 48

NP 90168 BEER RS 91000-91249
NP 90168 EMPTIES RS 91000-91249
NP 90454 BEER RS 91000-91249
NP 90454 EMPTIES RS 91000-91249
NP 92154 BEER RS 92038-92941
NP 92732 BEER RS 92038-92941
NP 92732 EMPTIES RS 92038-92941


Jack Wyatt wrote:

Ever since the NP reefer kits by Norwest came out, I've been intending to
ask about the NP reefer operations. Since the subject of the kits has been
brought up, I guess this is as good of a time as ever to ask my question.

Great Northern, through Western Fruit Express, and CB&Q, through Burlington
Refrigerator Express, were affiliated with Fruit Growers Express, so that
the combined fleets could meet the seasonal needs across the larger
territories served. Yet another Hill line, the NP, ran its own refrigerator
cars. Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?

Besides being interested in the general knowledge, for my specific modeling
situation, would there be much of a chance that one of these cars would show
up in the Southeast, say March/April 1947?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Jack Wyatt


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STMFC-unsubscribe@...



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Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Jack,
Here are some actual cars from the M&StL setout list from your era. the cars
with spuds were on bridge route trains heading east. These all appear to be
wooden cars.
Clark



NP 90015 90000-90799 RS Stl Unde 8/2/50 empty refrg.
NP 90575 90000-90799 RS Stl Unde 7/23/50 beer
NP 92574 92000-92950 RS Stl Unde 2/9/50 spuds
NP 92787 92000-92950 RS Stl Unde 2/7/50 spuds
NP 94784 94400-94920 RS Stl Unde 2/15/50 spuds


Jack Wyatt wrote:

Ever since the NP reefer kits by Norwest came out, I've been intending to
ask about the NP reefer operations. Since the subject of the kits has been
brought up, I guess this is as good of a time as ever to ask my question.

Great Northern, through Western Fruit Express, and CB&Q, through Burlington
Refrigerator Express, were affiliated with Fruit Growers Express, so that
the combined fleets could meet the seasonal needs across the larger
territories served. Yet another Hill line, the NP, ran its own refrigerator
cars. Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?

Besides being interested in the general knowledge, for my specific modeling
situation, would there be much of a chance that one of these cars would show
up in the Southeast, say March/April 1947?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Jack Wyatt


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STMFC-unsubscribe@...



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Re: Early 50' Cars

centga@...
 

John, this bring up another question that I have. How do you find out what
style corner post the Central's 37' AAR cars had? Most of what I heard says
that they were of the "W" style, can anyone confirm this? I'm interested in
the door and a half's and the single door cars. TIA, Todd Horton


PSC Co. Bldrs. Photos

CBarkan@...
 

Todd,

Several of us have asked this question over the years. I am not aware of a
coherent, identifiable collection from PSC. However, some individual photos
have turned up. Byron Rose may know the status best, as might Al
Westerfield, on this list.

Chris

In a message dated 7/7/02 8:05:20 PM, centga@... writes:

On another subject,
any know if the builders photo's for Pressed Steel Car Company exist? The
Central had some open hoppers from them. Todd Horton


Re: More Central of GA Box Car Questions

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

~From: John Golden [mailto:golden1014@...]

~Did Central of GA have any USRA single sheathed box
~cars?

AS Richard has pointed out, they didn't. They did however have some
clones of the USRA gondolas and USRA hoppers built in the twenties. The
gons were rebuilt at some time as low sided gons with steel replacing
wood and saw MoW service until the NS era.

There's very little info available on pre-war CofG boxcars, though
perhaps the CGHS book of stencilling diagrams might have more info.

They did have a series of ventilators which were drawn and photographed
for the '31 CBC which saw service until after WW2. I suspect from a
couple of fuzzy long distance photos that at least some of these might
have had the ventilator doors removed at some time. I haven't yet
checked the drawings against the Westerfield ACL ventilator cars, but
these CofG cars might be a feasible kitbash from this kit.

Aidrian



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Re: More Central of GA Box Car Questions

centga@...
 

In a message dated 7/7/02 4:10:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@... writes:



There's very little info available on pre-war CofG boxcars, though
perhaps the CGHS book of stencilling diagrams might have more info.

Aidrian, the CGRHS now has a 1931 freight car book available the has
information available for cars built as early as 1903. On another subject,
any know if the builders photo's for Pressed Steel Car Company exist? The
Central had some open hoppers from them. Todd Horton


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Richard Hendrickson
 

Jack Wyatt ask, about NP reefer traffic:

Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?
The territory NP served generated a lot of other tree fruit as well, which
matured at various seasons. And NP handled a lot of potatoes as well.
Also fish, though once cars were in fish service they couldn't be used for
anything else. In short, NP reefer traffic was reasonably substantial year
around, though it probably went pretty slack in midwinter. Remember that
many apples went into cold storage and were shipped at other times than the
harvest season.

Besides being interested in the general knowledge, for my specific modeling
situation, would there be much of a chance that one of these cars would show
up in the Southeast, say March/April 1947?
Others have commented on the fact that NP cars turned up just about
everywhere. If you want to model an NP reefer in the southeast in early
spring of 1947, I don't think anyone can argue that it was implausible.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

thompson@...
 

Thanks Dave, I forgot about the potatoes. I believe Idaho had an early fall
harvest, but there may have been some capability to store the potatoes.
You will find that the UP carried as many carloads of potatoes as did the
GN, as they served the part of southern Idaho where the bulk of them are
grown.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: 1942 ORER

thompson@...
 

Tim Gilbert writes:
Thanks for the info. I have long suspected that the standardization of
the presentation of car data in the ORER's was attributable to the
passing of the 1911 Federal Railway Safety Act. April 1912 seems to be
an awfully short transition period unless most roads were reporting
their cars in the twenty column format before the passage of that act.
Did the B&M in your April 1912 ORER report in the twenty column format?
Actually, as someone else pointed out, it was a 17-column format, and B&M
was the same as everyone else in the 1912 ORER I have. (One of the columns
added later was for the MCB/ARA/AAR car classification.)
I'm not sure why the Safety Act of 1911 would have necessitated more
columns of information in the ORER. Can you enlighten me?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

C J Wyatt
 

Washington state originated over 86% of the rail shipped apples in 1950.
A
couple of years later in 1956 (this is data I have here by the PC, the
1950
data is filed someplace else in the house, but I expect the traffic types
and
ratios to remain the same), the GN originating 3 times the number of
carloads
than the NP did (it was GN ~12000 carloadings vs. NP ~ 4000). For the NP
(1956 data again) what's interesting is they moved >5500 carloadings of
bannanas, most of which they originated. At any rate, these numbers are
small
pototoes in comparison to, well, potatoes, of which the NP moved >11000
carloads, most originated. Over on the GN, no bannanas to speak of but
over
25000 carloads of potatoes. Whether they moved the potatoes in reefers or
not
is something I can't tell. Lading weight for both apples and potatoes was
a
touch more than 20 tons/car.
Thanks Dave, I forgot about the potatoes. I believe Idaho had an early fall
harvest, but there may have been some capability to store the potatoes. That
is interesting about the bananas. I'm guessing that each part of the
hinterland would have been supplied through a particular port, so the NP
probably got the business for the Pacific Northwest. I'm assuming that the
bananas are a year round crop. Does anyone know if I'm wrong on that? If
they are a year round crop, that would keep a portion of the NP reefers tied
up with the banana trade.

Jack Wyatt


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wyatt [mailto:cjwyatt@...]
Great Northern, through Western Fruit Express, and CB&Q, through Burlington
Refrigerator Express, were affiliated with Fruit Growers Express, so that
the combined fleets could meet the seasonal needs across the larger
territories served. Yet another Hill line, the NP, ran its own refrigerator
cars. Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?
Washington state originated over 86% of the rail shipped apples in 1950. A
couple of years later in 1956 (this is data I have here by the PC, the 1950
data is filed someplace else in the house, but I expect the traffic types and
ratios to remain the same), the GN originating 3 times the number of carloads
than the NP did (it was GN ~12000 carloadings vs. NP ~ 4000). For the NP
(1956 data again) what's interesting is they moved >5500 carloadings of
bannanas, most of which they originated. At any rate, these numbers are small
pototoes in comparison to, well, potatoes, of which the NP moved >11000
carloads, most originated. Over on the GN, no bannanas to speak of but over
25000 carloads of potatoes. Whether they moved the potatoes in reefers or not
is something I can't tell. Lading weight for both apples and potatoes was a
touch more than 20 tons/car.

Both roads moved ~2000 carloads of misc. veggies and a lot less of any one
other thing.

For both the GN and NP there's no specific data I have that indicates where on
their route they picked up the spuds but on a state-by-state basis of rail
shipped spuds, the numbers for 1950 were MN: 280k tons, ND: 258k tons, and WA:
159k tons (I assume Idaho doesn't count given the route used).

Dave Nelson


Re: Norwest Kits & Castings NP reefer

C J Wyatt
 

Ever since the NP reefer kits by Norwest came out, I've been intending to
ask about the NP reefer operations. Since the subject of the kits has been
brought up, I guess this is as good of a time as ever to ask my question.

Great Northern, through Western Fruit Express, and CB&Q, through Burlington
Refrigerator Express, were affiliated with Fruit Growers Express, so that
the combined fleets could meet the seasonal needs across the larger
territories served. Yet another Hill line, the NP, ran its own refrigerator
cars. Everyone knows about Washington State apples, which I believe would be
harvested in late summer and early fall. What would be some of the other
crops and their seasons that would be handled by NP refeers? Did the NP make
its reefers available to other railroads in the off-seasons?

Besides being interested in the general knowledge, for my specific modeling
situation, would there be much of a chance that one of these cars would show
up in the Southeast, say March/April 1947?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Jack Wyatt

183581 - 183600 of 193469