Date   

Re: RTR Resin

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

I'd like to respond herewith to Dave Nelson's message #99187 and Tim O'Connor's message #99193.

As a practical matter (in this group, at least, if not universally) both gentlemen are correct. In the case of M&StL freight cars I have allowed myself to pronounce certain models 'accurate' and others not. I know some modelers rely on my pronouncements.

That said, let us take up the matter of freight car trucks. Who among us has identified a freight car truck as 'wrong' just because the journal box lids do not match the prototype? I suspect no one has.

If the side frame is correct it appears to me that we all (me included) are willing to accept a truck as correct even though the journal box lids, maybe the bolster, perhaps the brake beams and possibly even the journal box size do not match the prototype. I suspect we all use a definition of 'accurate' that is relative and individualized. When will we judge a models accuracy based on the correct retaining valve?

If I haven't already, this argument could be carried to a ridiculous extreme. Please see the first sentence of the second paragraph above.

Gene Green


Re: N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

naptownprr
 

Roughly when were the H10 hoppers built?

Jim

Quoting Andy Harman <gsgondola@gp30.com>:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:23 -0400, SMMW wrote
I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.
If I buy and build 25 of them, that's virtual assurance a styrene RTR
version will come
along shortly after....

Andy


Re: N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:23 -0400, SMMW wrote
I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.
If I buy and build 25 of them, that's virtual assurance a styrene RTR version will come
along shortly after....

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

leakinmywaders
 

Second. Some of us would buy half dozen or more X-3s in basic funeral black.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Mike

I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah... But I'd be shocked if a
good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?

Tim O'



Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process...

















Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Re: Red Caboose Tank car question

Clark Propst
 

Tim, that sounds interesting. It there a photo somewhere I can view, or could you tell me about where the extra bands are located?
Thanks, Clark Propst

PS Thanks to all who answered : ))

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Besides USAX (USQX?) as an owner of the Red Caboose 10,000 gallon
ICC 103W single-dome tank car, there is also UTLX 39150 (and other
numbers too, no doubt) built by ACF in 1951. This car is almost an
exact match to the kit, if you just add two extra tank bands with
strip styrene.

Tim O'Connor


N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

Jim King
 

I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

Ph. (828) 777-5619

<www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Mike;

I'd add the welded 6-panel 40-foot box car with d/p roof, the 10' IH box cars
bought by B&O, WM, CNJ and others, The PS 52' gon (PS-5), a good 4-6k
chlorine tank, and an acid tank, as well as the GATC Type 30 and UTLX X-3's.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike
brock
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars



Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [ NIM
] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt car
that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By definition [
for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that appeared in
relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily on ALL
American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay offset
side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of a
hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I'e mentioned the IC two-and three-bay "alternate standard" hopper. As well as the Enterprise GS gon in 36' and 40' variants. Being a quasi-CN 1956-era modeller, those two come to mind immediately.

But then there are also the CN 503500-513499 series 40' seven-panel steel frame boxcars, which travelled all over North America. So, far there have been three resin kits in HO, and one in O.

All are IMHO, good candidates for RTR models, but I've been told how small fortunes are made in the model rail business. By starting with large ones...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "mike brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I wish that I only could use three X-3 tanks!! More like a dozen, maybe?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models represent the rounded edge, convex domes.
But that's just exactly the dome type that's easiest to scratchbuild. I've done so for multiple cars and have shown one of them on my blog. I can give a link to anyone interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be
able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models
represent the rounded edge, convex domes.

Tim O'

It's a dreadful model, Andy, way oversize (probably around
double what it should be). Possibly AHM took a photo of a 6-dome car
and blew it up to make it 40 feet long. Its capacity, if you measure
it, is over 12,000 gallons, and the domes are still too big for the
individual compartments. It's a "super foobie" IMO.

Tony Thompson


Re: RTR Resin

Tim O'Connor
 

Nope. 1980 Canadian cylindrical, 1970 Pullman Standard 4750, and
the postwar PFE ice reefer -- in that order, I think. None of the
other models comes close.

I imagine IM's AAR box cars are among their best sellers, in spite of being
dupes. Branchline and RC have duped some of them but also offered some
variations like the RC welded 40 footer.
Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Harman wrote:
Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have one - mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show. I have no idea if it represents any prototype.
It's a dreadful model, Andy, way oversize (probably around double what it should be). Possibly AHM took a photo of a 6-dome car and blew it up to make it 40 feet long. Its capacity, if you measure it, is over 12,000 gallons, and the domes are still too big for the individual compartments. It's a "super foobie" IMO.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: RTR Resin

Andy Harman
 

At 11:50 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
That's true Gene, but if Intermountain or Exactrail's entire product
lines were made of duplicates of other products, I don't think they would
still be in business. You can get away with some slow sellers, but you
need some big winners too.
I imagine IM's AAR box cars are among their best sellers, in spite of being
dupes. Branchline and RC have duped some of them but also offered some
variations like the RC welded 40 footer.

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?
Depends on how far you go forward with your time machine, since these cars
lasted well beyond the boundaries of this list. Probably at least a dozen
variants to the Milwaukee scheme (taking into account what, 7 variants just
of the 40' car) and also at least two distinctly different base colors.

Andy


Re: RTR Resin

Andy Harman
 

At 01:00 AM 4/13/2011 -0000, you wrote:
Rib Side, Intermountain and ExactRail all have ribside box cars.
I haven't figured out why everybody got the hots for that car all at once,
although at least there is some variation. IM's is a short rib car, EXR's
is a long rib. Rib Side has done a bunch of phase variations and paint
variations but their tooling - particularly of the early end - isn't as
nice as EXR's. I need exactly two of these cars, and I've accumulated
um... seven, none of which will do what I want without modification. I'm
tempted to cut the 5-5 ends off the EXR car and graft them onto the IM to
get a phase 2a(?) car like I want, but... I don't know if I want it that
bad....

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 06:42 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
What else? How about a multi-dome tank car? (Actually, I think a
multi-dome wine car would do well for all the same reasons pickle cars do
well, and still be useful for the prototype-oriented among us.)

Southern Car & Foundry has a 2-dome kit. Unless multi means more than two.

Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have one -
mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show. I have
no idea if it represents any prototype.

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

At 06:27 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?
I know you built an N&W H2a to run on Sherman Hill, but are you sure that
it wasn't supposed to be an H10? There are not that many freight cars that
are not available, that I need a lot of. That's one of them. Maybe if the
Sherman Hill modelers all get on board, we can get it done :-)

Andy


Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Those MP hoppers could have originated in Texas, and could be
filled with coke made from petroleum. I have a photo showing
three MP, one B&O, and one N&W hopper loaded with petroleum coke
at a Texas refinery.

Tim O'Connor

Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left today after
viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to those on
the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style" hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.

Mike Brock


Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Jerry Michels asks about MP hoppers out West:

Mike, any details on this?
I originally wrote this on March 25, 2008:

Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left today after viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to those on the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style" hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.

Coincidentally, there are photos of other MP hopper cars "lost" out in the
"real west". America's Colorful Railroads shows no less than 2 MT's being
returned eastward on the D&RGW in Tennessee Pass and The Iron Horse and I
shows MP hoppers in...of all places...Laramie, WY.

To add to that and perhaps the strangest example is the long string of MP hoppers on a UP branch line in Utah as shown in the UPHS's The Streamliner. In the east is the MP hopper running from Lorain,OH, "back" to somewhere in West Virginia in a train of mostly B&O hoppers as shown on pg 40 of the book Baltimore & Ohio Trackside with Willis McCaleb...which contains some of the best color photos I have seen. One can surmise that the MP hopper never actually originated in a load in WV...a switching crew merely saying..."To hell with it" when they discovered the MP hopper in a train of very similar B&O hoppers in Lorain.

Mike Brock

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