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Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia
Being a Mopac fan I'm enjoying the discussion on the Mopac hoppers. By chance what road numbers would these cars carry? I model outside the scope of this forum, but greatly enjoy discussions like this one.
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Jerry, I have a Mopac specific question reference Mopac hoppers used on my section of the line and would appreicate if you would contact me off list to discuss them. obermeyern AT yahoo.com Nate
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, jerryglow@... wrote:
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
Jim Hayes
Plus the fact that all the resin tank car kits are tricky to assemble.
Jim On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: MP hoppers in California (UNCLASSIFIED)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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Caveats: NONE Mike; I saw PRR hoppers in SoCal when I (first visited then) lived there, and SP and ATSF hoppers in the mountains of Pennsylvania. The idea that hoppers tended to stay close to home is valid, but it is also valid that they got around! Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike brock Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:44 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] MP hoppers in California Richard Hendrickson writes: All of this having been well documented, I know of no Santa Fe gurus who have pulled out even aI would speculate that your barber might reduce his fee after you have run Prototype Rails AND the STMFC for ten yrs.<G> Actually, I appreciate the fact that my haircuts are rather quicker than some. Gives me more time to work on Prototype Rails. Only 8 more months. Geeez. The MP hopper story...and the source of its coal would not be complete without mentioning the photo on the inside cover of the UPHS The Streamliner, Vol 18, #4. It shows a train of 40 or so hopper cars near Lyndyll, UT,[ 118 miles south of SLC ] in 1952 which contains at least 2 MP 3 bay hoppers [ and probably 2 more ]. Utah coal? Possibly. Of additional interest are the P&LE and NYC gons at the first of the train...loaded with something that looks like...coal. To complicate the issue is the eastbound UP train at Wahsatch, UT [ 65 miles east of Ogden on the Ogden/Cheyenne mainline ]. In its consist are a 50 ton and 70 ton MP hopper...plus 2 Rock Island gons...apparently MTY. Add to that the MP hoppers at Laramie. Mike Brock Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
Aley, Jeff A
All,
It is messages like this one that prompted me to ask the question about RTR resin. People want an X-3 (and other cars) IN PLASTIC. Sunshine already makes a resin kit for the X-3. So why do folks want it in RTR plastic? Is it because they want the material to be plastic, in particular? I guess the answer is "no" - personally, I don't care if the car is made out of bamboo, so long as it is nicely executed. So that leaves a few possible reasons: availability (not a problem w/ other resin mfrs), pre-painting / lettering, or the fact that the plastic car will be RTR. Regards, -Jeff From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ealabhan0 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:56 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars I suggest that the UTLX X-3 tank car would fit perfectly into ExactRail's Signature Series, next to their MILW ribsides.
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Re: Necessary Freight cars
Jack Burgess
Bruce wrote:
<No need to come to a "consensus". Jerry Britton sends out a poll to <the PRR lists every year asking for the top 3 requests in a variety <of categories. He simply coalated the responses in each scale and <forwarded it to as many manufacturers as he could find. It is <remarkable over the years how many of the top cars and locomotives <have ended up being produced! Was if cause and effect or simply a <correlation? We may never know ;^) Finescale Models magazine does the same thing each year, collecting requests for new kits and it seems the manufacturer's listen. Of course, there are more model builders than model railroaders. But to make our requests more attractive, it might be helpful to provide a background summary on those cars which receive the most votes (how many prototypes were built, how many railroads ran them) and sources of prototype information for them... Jack Burgess Newark, CA
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Re: RTR Resin
Gene Green wrote
>> ... let us take up the matter of freight car trucks. Who among us >> has identified a freight car truck as 'wrong' just because the journal >> box lids do not match the prototype? I suspect no one has. Guilty. :-[ >> maybe the bolster Yep. Guilty. >> perhaps the brake beams Yes, well, when it comes to Wabcopacs (truck mounted brakes) >> When will we judge a models accuracy based on the correct retaining valve? When someone makes a correct retaining valve? Tim O'Connor
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Re: Necessary Freight cars
On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:13 PM, Paul Catapano wrote:
Is it possible to (a) reach a consensus, and (b) choose say fivePaul, No need to come to a "consensus". Jerry Britton sentout a pole to the PRR lists every year asking for the top 3 requests in a variety of categories. He simply coalated the responses in each scale and forwarded it to as many manufacturers as he could find. It is remarkable over the years how many of the top cars and locomotives have ended up being produced! Was if cause and effect or simply a correlation? We may never know ;^) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Necessary Freight cars
Paul Catapano
Is it possible to (a) reach a consensus, and (b) choose say five cars and (c) campaign heavily with the model manufacturers for their production?
Then each year update the list bumping those that have been produced and replacing them with cars drawn from the next five? Didn't the SPH&TS recently ask for money up front for the production of a recent flat car and guarantee the donor some cars upon release? (Or something like that). What is your favorite car worth to you? Paul Catapano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
I think the GATC 6-dome tanks would be good sellers -- they
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went all over the country, and wore a number of paint schemes. I'd definitely be interested in several. The brass PSC models usually fetch over $200 on Ebay. Of course, whoever makes them in plastic would be free to paint them PRR, UP, ATSF, etc. :-) Tim O'Connor
I would like a good (accurate) 2 ,3, or 6 dome tank
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(No subject)
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XLT hardware question
Jim Mischke
In source material, I have always seen XLT car hardware discussed in a B&O freight car context. QUESTION: has anybody seen XLT hardware mentioned in non-B&O or vendor literature and drawings?
Background: B&O car superintendent John Tatum (during 1915-1941) had 64 rolling stock patents, which B&O allowed him to market under his trade name XLT (short for Excellent-Tatum). Conflict of interest concerns aside, these were available to be specified on B&O rolling stock orders and presumably off B&O as well. It is not clear if he received any royalties, from B&O or other, over or under the table. Many Tatum XLT freight car parts only made cost sense on B&O, who made parts on the cheap from recovered salvaged feedstock (sheet, rods, etc.) at their Cumberland Forge. Tatum designed hardware and cost justified its use with this in-house capability in mind. Might not be worthwhile at another railroad or carbuilder. Here are some examples: - B&O wagontop boxcar and caboose design - M-27B/F Tatum XLT roof for Evans foldaway auto loader ramps (Sunshine calls this a Mansnard roof, but that is a Loftonism) - XLT brake step (simply folded sheet metal, no brackets) - XLT rubber pads for passenger car trucks - M-15j wood boxcar ends (once thought to be vendor Indestructable Ends, but these are actually XLT reinforced ends applied to many B&O wood boxcars of various classes) - freight car truck designs, archbar and cast - an endless array of brackets and widgets, many dozens, not all were patented I have heard of "XLM" hardware in a Frank Murphy car design context. Speculation: since Tatum and carbuilder Murphy knew each other well, perhaps this XLM means Excellent Murphy as a friendly dig at Tatum. I find myself saying that XLT hardware was B&O only, but I have not studied other railroads' rolling stock in similar depth; and thought this would be a good question to pose to this group.
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Re: Baltimore and Ohio hopper cars...
Jim Mischke
The B&O hopper car at North Conway, marked 829839, is a curious aberration.
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During 1965-66, B&O leased some offset side twin hoppers from Maine Central, all painted in B&O Billboard lettering scheme. This lease was temporary, you will one find this series only in the 1965 or 1966 Railway Equipment Register. Because they were leased, it carried no B&O or B&O/C&O class number. Returned to Maine Central it was repainted. You can see how the museum approched it when acquired, this series often had B&O lettering showing through. The assumption was that it is former B&O. Well, yes. For about a year. It might be more properly displayed as a Maine Central car in MC paint. I have no photos of this series on B&O. Maybe Paul Dunn saw one but I do not know. Only have photos on Maine Central afterwards with B&O lettering showing through fading MC paint.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
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My top 6 list
S hed <shed999@...>
Speaking of missing significant cars I have a top 6 list of cars and 1 engine that would be great to have but is not available in HO-scale. And this list is not in any kind of order.
- Pennsylvania RR XL box car. Something like 37,000 were made. Westerfield made a resin kit of this car. - Pennsylvania RR K8 stock car. 1,000 cars were built. No one has ever made this car. - AC&F 36' box car. Dozens of railroads had this design and it would make a welcome replacement to the MDC 36' box car. - AC&F 36' refrigerator car. Dozens of railroads and private companies, including Armour and Wilson, had these and it would make a welcome replacement to the MDC 36' reefer. - AC&F 36' stock car. Dozens of railroads had these cars and it would make a welcome replacement to the MDC 36' stock car. - AAR 4-Bay Offset Open Hopper. This would be an upgrade to the old Athearn car and I think would be welcomed by everyone especially by B&O modelers. As a note, I realize that the railroads and companies that had the AC&F built cars were not 100% identical with each other but I don't care. Close enough is good enough with me. I do like the MDC cars but any kind of improved version of the car would be excellent. My 1 engine that I would want is a 2-8-0 that is smaller to the Spectrum 2-8-0 including smaller drivers. - Steve Hedlund, Silver Lake, WA
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M-15 coversions, was: M-53 ends
Jim Mischke
Some thoughts:
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Chris Barkan termed the M-15 as the boxcar that would not die. M-15 (wood) subclass to M-15k wagontop (1935-6) to M-15na (1955) to M-15pd. Three rebuildings. Note that the M-15k conversons to M-15pd, M-15na also included a doorway widening. This 1955 converson seemed almost overnight. It consumed all the viable M-15k wagontop boxcars on the roster. Except one, which went to MofW service, per 1961 roster, no photo. It seems this one MofW car is the only M-15k one can have on a post-1955 layout.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
Jon Miller <atsf@...>
On 13 Apr 2011 at 8:53, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Andy Harman wrote:Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I haveIt doesn't, Andy, not even close AHM made it as a modified tank on I would like a good (accurate) 2 ,3, or 6 dome tank (injected). While I realize they were rare I think they would sell. The manufacture (or importer) could paint them with granny goose for all I care as long as a couple of correct ones were done. As most will say they are too rare for a prototype RR that fact alone would probably make them good sellers. How many will sell, who knows. Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: Tank car question
Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:59 AM, john66h wrote:
Is there any record out there as to how the prewar ACF Type 27 USQXSure, John. I have numerous photos. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Tank car question
John Hile
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Is there any record out there as to how the prewar ACF Type 27 USQX cars were painted and lettered after they became USAX cars in the postwar era? John Hile
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
David Sieber
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor wrote: I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3 tank car ... There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box cars in HO scale...
--- and Mike Brock wrote: ... a "significant" frt car is one that appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs ... Hence, the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car. Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [gasp!]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [200], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield, WLE, and Erie ... Folks, I suggest that the UTLX X-3 tank car would fit perfectly into ExactRail's Signature Series, next to their MILW ribsides. Plus, with judicious choice of capacity vs. underframe, ExactRail could utilize the already tooled underframe and detail sprues with X-4 and X-5 insulated or pressurized tanks, expanding potential marketability with additional paint schemes; some of those had lessee billboard lettering, and IIRC, a few were even somewhat colorful (or am I confusing UTLX tanks with GATX tankers, another common design that's woefully missing from the plastic injection market?). Anyone for an email campaign to express our interest? I still think the AAR Alternate Standard 2-bay offset-side hopper should be a good candidate for several manufacturers, notwithstanding the flood over the years of AAR Standard hoppers from a long string of plastic model railroad firms. While it's likely true that some buyers of inexpensive 6ft-viewing-distance hoppers may neither know nor care about the differences between AAR Standard and Alternate Standard hoppers, those of us who buy Kadee and similar hoppers do care and appreciate those differences. I think this is a particularly good candidate for Kadee, especially since I'd like NP hoppers on National B-1 trucks, which Kadee fortuitously just issued in HGC. Of course, C&O modelers need fleets of Alternate Standard hoppers, and are doubtless even more disappointed that Accurail just tooled yet another AAR Standard 2-pocket offset hopper. Not holding my breath, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
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Re: MP hoppers in California
mike brock <brockm@...>
Richard Hendrickson writes:
All of this having been well documented, I know of no Santa Fe gurus who have pulled out even aI would speculate that your barber might reduce his fee after you have run Prototype Rails AND the STMFC for ten yrs.<G> Actually, I appreciate the fact that my haircuts are rather quicker than some. Gives me more time to work on Prototype Rails. Only 8 more months. Geeez. The MP hopper story...and the source of its coal would not be complete without mentioning the photo on the inside cover of the UPHS The Streamliner, Vol 18, #4. It shows a train of 40 or so hopper cars near Lyndyll, UT,[ 118 miles south of SLC ] in 1952 which contains at least 2 MP 3 bay hoppers [ and probably 2 more ]. Utah coal? Possibly. Of additional interest are the P&LE and NYC gons at the first of the train...loaded with something that looks like...coal. To complicate the issue is the eastbound UP train at Wahsatch, UT [ 65 miles east of Ogden on the Ogden/Cheyenne mainline ]. In its consist are a 50 ton and 70 ton MP hopper...plus 2 Rock Island gons...apparently MTY. Add to that the MP hoppers at Laramie. Mike Brock
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Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars
James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Here are some photos of the N&W H-10
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http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&;id=759&Type=Picture And here are some photos of the N&W H-2a: http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&;id=80&Type=Picture Jim Brewer Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Harman" <gsgondola@gp30.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:13:14 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:57:22 -0400, mike brock wrote Nope. You can't make an H10 out of an H2a, if you could I'd already have a bunch of kitbashes in the works. It's easier to scratch build it. Unfortunately I don't have scale drawings of the H10. http://www.gp30.com/events/lrm2004/lrm2004-038.jpg - on the left is Jim6's scratchbuilt (actually a long discontinued styrene spaghetti kit) H10, on the right is a Broadway H2a. Of course these are models but prototype photos reveal the same comparison. The H10 sides are not as tall, it has a more "slender" profile if you will. One of those things that is really hard to describe unless you can put the two side by side, fortunately I had the opportunity at the 2004 LRM. Jim's is also the only model I've ever seen of an H10, in any scale or material. Andy
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