Date   

Re: K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Tim:

Do you have any Cal Scale K brake sets , plastic or brass, which you
would be interested in selling? I'll pay more than fair value!

Thanks,

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: K brakes

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 10:59 AM 12/23/00 -0500, you wrote:

Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!!

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.
Tichy makes excellent KC and KD brake sets, and I have tons of leftover
KC gear from kits. (99% of my stuff uses AB or later brakes.) I suspect
one reason the CalScale AB set is selling slowly is that he took too
long (several years!) in redoing the tooling and gave competitors (Tichy,
Details West, Detail Associates, Grandt Line, and even Pittsburgh Scale
Models) a chance to jump in with replacement products. I will never buy
another CalScale AB set because the competitive products are better --
The old CalScale Ajax brake wheel can't hold a candle to Kadee's.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!! The mold is worn out/damaged, and since they were doing
the brass sets via "lost plastic" casting, those got canceled also.

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: P2K Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Thanks Richard,
Easy to change the date and add KC brakes. I think either Tichy and/or
CalScale still have the KC brakes.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: P2K Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Group,
Just got bit by the P2K dating bug with a batch of 10K tanks I just
bought. This means the impossibility of telling what tanks you have without
unpacking the cars. Anyway the group of COSX I got are dated 5-46 and have
a big D-X on them. It's easy to change the 5-46 but if it's wrong (for '41)
to get rid of a large white D-X on one side. So my question is, can I live
with that big white D-X in '41 or must I remove it? For that matter is the
rest of the lettering OK or must the cars go?
Not to worry, Jon, I did the research on the lettering for those cars and
the billboard DX was current in 1941, so all you have to do is change the
reweigh dates. However, the date of 5-46 was chosen because we had a
prototype photo that showed a car with AB brakes, and it's likely that in
1941 most of the DX cars still had KC brakes (this assumption is supported
by photos in the Library of Congress archives which show COSX cars in Tulsa
during the war; where the brake equipment is visible, it's KC type).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


P2K Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Group,
Just got bit by the P2K dating bug with a batch of 10K tanks I just
bought. This means the impossibility of telling what tanks you have without
unpacking the cars. Anyway the group of COSX I got are dated 5-46 and have
a big D-X on them. It's easy to change the 5-46 but if it's wrong (for '41)
to get rid of a large white D-X on one side. So my question is, can I live
with that big white D-X in '41 or must I remove it? For that matter is the
rest of the lettering OK or must the cars go?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: "TW" reefer designation

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 12/21/00 12:58:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, nehrij@rpi.edu
writes:

<< Dick - A wine car should be RB, the "B" being for beverage or beer, but
that's not a car with an internal tank. "TW" would be from the Tank
designation, with "W" meaning a wood tank, like a vinegar or pickle car.
(Meaning these didn't get the stainless steel or enameled tanks such as used
in GPEX milk cars and Chateau Martin cars.) >>

"TW" was the correct letter designation for the PFE refrigerator cars when
sold and converted to wine service (circa 1933-35). During 1935 the AAR
clarified, and/or added to, its list of M.C.B. designations for tank
cars--the "TW" designation read; A car equipped with one or more lined or
unlined wooden tanks or tubs. Note, "tank" car is not specified.

Modifications were made to this designation both in 1936 and in 1940. The
1940 description read; A car equipped with one or more wooden tanks, or, one
or more metal tubs. Such tanks or tubs may be lined. Car is sometimes
equipped with a roof.

By the 1950s the "TW" designation was greatly simplified to read; Tank car
equipped with one or more wooden containers.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
SParks, Nevada


Re: "TW" reefer designation

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

John,

Wooden tanks sounds good to me. Wine loves that stuff.

There is a page in the PFE book that gives the history of those cars, and
I believe that is where Bill McClung got the idea and data for doing them.

Dick Harley


Atlas pulpwood cars/offset hoppers with oval ends

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I'm puzzling through the Atlas kits for our Atlas section
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Atlas-kits.html#sets)

For most of their cars, the Atlas web site has a photo, so I can get the car number and the scheme they are using, but not so for their pulpwood cars. And the photos for their oval end offset twin cars doesn't seem to load (at least for me). If anyone has any of these kits handy and could read off the car number and reweigh date, I'd be grateful.
- John Nehrich


Re: "TW" reefer designation

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Dick - A wine car should be RB, the "B" being for beverage or beer, but
that's not a car with an internal tank. "TW" would be from the Tank
designation, with "W" meaning a wood tank, like a vinegar or pickle car.
(Meaning these didn't get the stainless steel or enameled tanks such as used
in GPEX milk cars and Chateau Martin cars.) Thanks - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Harley" <Dick.Harley@wdc.com>
To: <STMFC@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] "TW" reefer designation


On 12-20-00, John Nehrich asked:

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their
PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see
any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something
they made up for non-PFE cars?
Since everyone else seems asleep, I'll venture a first cut answer from
here at work without my PFE book (I took it home during our move). PFE
sold some it's R-30-9's to wineries for wine transport. I believe they
took the ice bunkers out and made the cars essentially wine tank cars,
hence the 'TW' designation. I don't have an ORER here to check that ARA
designation, but that's the gist of it.

Dick Harley




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Re: "TW" reefer designation

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

On 12-20-00, John Nehrich asked:

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their
PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see
any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something
they made up for non-PFE cars?
Since everyone else seems asleep, I'll venture a first cut answer from
here at work without my PFE book (I took it home during our move). PFE
sold some it's R-30-9's to wineries for wine transport. I believe they
took the ice bunkers out and made the cars essentially wine tank cars,
hence the 'TW' designation. I don't have an ORER here to check that ARA
designation, but that's the gist of it.

Dick Harley


Red Caboose "TW" reefer designation

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their PFE reefers. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see any explanation of the "TW" designation. Is this something they made up for non-PFE cars? - John Nehrich


Re: Branchline box cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Jeff Aley inquires earnestly

What's the latest on Branchline freight cars? Do they have
a version of their 50' box car that has a 10'6" IH and 4/4
early IDE's that can be used to model the UP A-50-18 and
A-50-21?
The answer is manifold as usual. NO, Branchline 50 foot kits
do not include any 4/4 IDE's, since that car's design is too
late for those pre-1950 ends.

HOWEVER, I expect Branchline to produce 4/4 IDE's for their
40 foot kit, since that would allow BL to apply quite a few
additional paint schemes on the same AAR body style.

BUT, both the UP A-50-18 and the A-50-21 have the wrong style
of side sheathing (alternate center rivet) and more importantly
the wrong number of panels (4&7 vs 5&8). So if Branchline were
to produce those UP cars we would have to sneer at them, no?

Long ago I asked Martin Lofton why he didn't do some UP A.C.R.
cars. (He later did the B-50-32/33 and A-50-16.) He replied he
didn't think UP models would sell very well. I don't know why
he thinks that is so. I'd love to see more accurate UP kits.
As an SP modeler I've been blessed the last 10 years -- every
major SP 40 foot box car from the 1920's to the 1950's is now
available, and a fair number of 50 foot cars are too. The UP
modelers (and I am one) have far fewer to choose from.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Complaint

byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:12:08 -0000 "Max Robin" <m_robin@cheatriver.com>
writes:
Welcome back Byron!!

And just what size were the rivets used on the thousands of channel
side hoppers on the WM to secure the channels to the side sheets and

framing?
Thank you Max.

As I recall from the 2-3 WM channel sides that I saw several years ago in
Harrisburg, the rivets are slightly larger than the ones used in box car
siding. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say they were probably 1/2"
rivets with a full 1" diameter head. In HO modeling terms, the NWSL
.010" rivet set would be awful close, especially after painting.

I recently saw a GA drawing of WMs built in the 30s but didn't have time
to study such details. If I get another chance, I'll let you know.

Or, next time I'm in H'burg, I could measure them on the cars still
extant, those being of the 1952 rebuilt variety. I will probably be
there this spring.

Byron
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


Re: Complaint

Max Robin
 

Welcome back Byron!!

And just what size were the rivets used on the thousands of channel
side hoppers on the WM to secure the channels to the side sheets and
framing?

Max


Re: Wire handrails

Max Robin
 

I too dislike styrene handrails. My normal attachment mode is 5
minute epoxy, solder, or (last choice) ACC.

Max


Re: The steam era, 1960

Max Robin
 

I'm afraid I side w/Richard on the date issue. By 1960, I was
looking for older freight cars still in photographable condition and
had ZERO interest in the contemporary equipment except as it impacted
my job in the NYC mechanical department.

My model railroad has been designed and is operated as a dual era
railroad: 1926 and Oct. 1948. The '48 date would be more like '44
except that I couldn't resist a certain group of west coast logging
wengines which were sold off in 1948.

As several of my close modeler friends are fond of saying, "a PS-1,
what's that?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com
alias kathe@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E. voice: 973 - 627 - 5895
Cheat River Engineering Inc. or: 973 - 627 - 5460
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834-0289


Re: Car initial question

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
Secondly, almost all of those numbers could be SFRD cars
(from a fleet that totalled about 15,000 cars).
Bingo - every book number matches with SFRD series cars. And the cryptic
'RD' now makes sense too. Shoudda thought of that myself... guess I was too
conditioned by popular opinion that SFRD cars would *never* be seen going
over Sherman Hill. FWIW, for reefers, I've tallied 63 PFE cars, 14 SFRD's,
7 MDT, 6 ART, and 11 other marks (incl 1 CP reefer)-- in 10 trains (all
being mixed, no fruit blocks).

Thanks for your help!

Dave Nelson

P.S. Not one NW hopper has yet been recorded.


Express reefers at Sidney, Nebraska

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes about Dave Nelson's Frt Conductor book:

And some of the loads look
like backhaul cargoes for westbound empties, which would explain what SFRD
cars were doing in UP trains. (It might be some help to know which
direction the cars were moving.) Offhand, the one exception that jumps
out
at me is 63013, which would almost certainly have been a URTX meat reefer.
To add a little bit to this [ and I believe I've mentioned it before, but
maybe on the PCL ] , the first volume of Terry Metcalfe's UP Modeler shows
photos taken in 1957 of some of the cars in an Eastbound UP mail train taken
at Sidney, Nebraska [ on the Overland Route ]. Included are photos of: REX
1604, PFE 661, ATSF 4000, ACL 3048, PRR 2248, NRC 672, REX?, and SP 5713...a
box car assigned to express service. All of the others are express reefers.

Mike Brock


Re: Car initial question

Richard Hendrickson
 

Dave Nelson wrote, about some reefers he found in a 1948 UP conductor's
time book:

I've written them down as URTX and I'm assuming they're all reefers,
but the original initials looked like Rd, RQ, or Rx. There is a mix of east
and westbounds here.

road car_nrcar_type contents
URTX 34861 REEFER Candy
URTX 25771 REEFER Mdse
URTX 34840 REEFER Mdse
URTX 4352 REEFER Potatoes
URTX 7325 REEFER Potatoes
URTX 26225 REEFER Potatoes
URTX 14349 REEFER Potatoes
URTX 23819 REEFER Mdse
URTX 25927 REEFER Mdse
URTX 20399 REEFER Cherries?
URTX 14737 REEFER Beer
URTX 34820 REEFER Waste
URTX 34276 REEFER Juice
URTX 63013 REEFER Mty
URTX 36427 REEFER Wine

...could these cars belong to some other owner?
Dave, I'm very doubtful that these are all URTX cars. First of all, there
are a lot of them. I don't know how many cars total are listed in the data
you have, but in 1948 the URTX fleet only totaled slightly more than 6,000
cars, and I'd be very surprised if that many of them were running at that
time on the UP. Secondly, almost all of those numbers could be SFRD cars
(from a fleet that totalled about 15,000 cars). And some of the loads look
like backhaul cargoes for westbound empties, which would explain what SFRD
cars were doing in UP trains. (It might be some help to know which
direction the cars were moving.) Offhand, the one exception that jumps out
at me is 63013, which would almost certainly have been a URTX meat reefer.

I've had some experience trying to interpret the chicken scratches in
conductors' time books, and what it tells me is that reporting marks were
often recorded in a cryptic shorthand that only the conductor himself could
decipher with assurance (and that weren't necessarily consistent from one
entry to another, either). So I'm going to suggest that a lot of those
entries represented "RD," which was common trainmen's shorthand for SFRD.
If you like, I can go through the list and identify possible SFRD classes
(or you can do that yourself from the rosters in the Jordan et. al. Santa
Fe reefer book).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

187281 - 187300 of 187390