Date   

Re: Help with painting

jerryglow2
 

I assume you're familiar with Steve Sandifer's site: http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "roblmclear" <rob.mclear3@...> wrote:

I dont know if this is the right list to be on as I am dealing with express refrigerator and express box cars. I am a modeller in N scale and model the ATSF over Cajon Pass in California in 1947-1949. The NYC had numerous cars in service with the Santa Fe both on the Fast Mail Express and on the Chief. I hope that you might be able to answer some of my questions.

First I have kitbashed a NYC Express Reefer from an Athearn Milk car and have added the fishbelly side sills and rivets from Archer rivets. I have also kitbashed an Express Boxcar from a Microtrains Troop Sleeper, my question to the group is what colour should these be painted. Given my era, should the roofs be black or the same colour as the body. Is Pullman Green the correct colour or should it be something different. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.


Re: SMMW photo-etched parts web page

Clark Propst
 

Those gondola tie down loops might also work for the pulling loops attached to the sills of cars?
Clark Propst


Re: Wood floors in gons?

water.kresse@...
 

I believe you need to qualify the area of the country during the steam era after 1910.  If you're talking the coal country around the C&O, N&W etc. railways you are going to find steel floors in steel gons much more common.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:02:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wood floors in gons?

Edward Sutorik wrote:
Someone on the Atlas forum asked about wood floors in gons--in  
particular, Railgons.  I "asserted" that Railgons never had wood  
floors.But it did get me wondering about the general case.  It's  
interesting that typical flat cars have wood deck flooring; but, it  
appears to me, that gons rarely do.  I thought I'd ask "the folks"  
their opinions on the matter.
      Wood gondola floors were more common than steel ones in the  
steam era, for the exact same reason that wood decks were used on flat  
cars: loads and cribbing were more easily attached.
       The biggest exception was the kind of mill gon which normally  
carried steel structural shapes or plate. These did not have to be  
secured with any dunnage in most cases and needed to be as durable as  
possible.
       ORER entries often identify wood vs. steel floors in gondolas,  
simply so car clerks would know the proper assignment of such cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Help with painting

roblmclear <rob.mclear3@...>
 

I dont know if this is the right list to be on as I am dealing with express refrigerator and express box cars. I am a modeller in N scale and model the ATSF over Cajon Pass in California in 1947-1949. The NYC had numerous cars in service with the Santa Fe both on the Fast Mail Express and on the Chief. I hope that you might be able to answer some of my questions.

First I have kitbashed a NYC Express Reefer from an Athearn Milk car and have added the fishbelly side sills and rivets from Archer rivets. I have also kitbashed an Express Boxcar from a Microtrains Troop Sleeper, my question to the group is what colour should these be painted. Given my era, should the roofs be black or the same colour as the body. Is Pullman Green the correct colour or should it be something different. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Andy Harman
 

At 10:50 PM 4/22/2011 -0000, you wrote:

All these estimations have a use, and a place where they are appropriate,
but we need to realize what we are doing. Some of the recent messages here
are telling me that some people might not.

As a college math professor once admonished me, if I have a calculator at
my disposal there's no reason to round off any intermediate result.

I use the calipers to measure, and a calculator to convert. I don't trust
any of my brain math skills anymore. I was good at it until I discovered
computers.

Andy


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Andy Harman
 

At 10:15 AM 4/22/2011 -0700, you wrote:
I'm struck by the fact that no one has mentioned using a
micrometer instead of a caliper.
I have one of those too, also inherited. My dad didn't leave a whole lot
in his estate. A 64 Pontiac, a couple of clarinets, a beat up brass
Niagara, and a lot of cool tools. I have to find that one too, but my
China dial caliper is accurate enough for most of what I do. Then again if
I start messing around with precision tools, I might become a true
caliper-head model builder. Or just as likely... an Elvis impersonator.

Andy


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Andy Harman
 

At 03:41 PM 4/22/2011 -0000, you wrote:
I think Andy meant he could read dimensions TO the nearest 1/4 HO inch on
the
HO scale, OR to the nearest actual .001 inch on the inch scale, not that the
two dimensions are equivalent.
That is correct. Like I said, at the time I had never used a vernier scale
before and I was impressed with its accuracy (comparing readings on some
measurements to a micrometer). Then again back then you could do
calculations on a slide rule that today's kids couldn't fathom either.

I really need to find my PFM caliper. I still will end up using my
(non-HO) dial caliper most often. I mostly use it on styrene and brass
stock to make sure it's the size I think it is. Also handy to measure
those Reboxx axles that get mixed up.

Andy


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Andy Harman
 

At 11:02 PM 4/21/2011 -0700, you wrote:

It is indeed fascinating and also incorrect. Try multiplying or
dividing (the appropriate value) by 87.
The caliper has two scales, one is HO scale and will go down to 1/4", the
other is 1:1 inches down to .001.

Andy


Re: Wood floors in gons?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Edward Sutorik wrote:
Someone on the Atlas forum asked about wood floors in gons--in particular, Railgons. I "asserted" that Railgons never had wood floors.But it did get me wondering about the general case. It's interesting that typical flat cars have wood deck flooring; but, it appears to me, that gons rarely do. I thought I'd ask "the folks" their opinions on the matter.
Wood gondola floors were more common than steel ones in the steam era, for the exact same reason that wood decks were used on flat cars: loads and cribbing were more easily attached.
The biggest exception was the kind of mill gon which normally carried steel structural shapes or plate. These did not have to be secured with any dunnage in most cases and needed to be as durable as possible.
ORER entries often identify wood vs. steel floors in gondolas, simply so car clerks would know the proper assignment of such cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Movies w/Freight Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Stray not far from the topic, dear friends. Deep elephant doodoo awaits you...

Want to see a lovely 1930's runby of a PFE reefer block? See "Hitch Hike Lady"
on Netflix instant watch http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Hitch_Hike_Lady/70153941

Tim O'Connor

<The trailers I have seen for "Water for Elephants" about circus life which open today, April 22, shows freight car prominently in the background. Reese Witherspoon is one of the human actors.>

Seattle paper gave it a very poor review, putting it in the category of Atlas Shrugged, which mean AS is unlikely to appear at the local theater in this den of liberalism. Other opinions?
CJ RileyBainbridge Island WA


Re: Wood floors in gons?

Tim O'Connor
 

And many flat cars had steel decks, or partial steel decks. And
some gondolas had 1/2 wood - 1/2 steel "nailable steel floors" --
the old Revell/Concor gondola has a beautiful version of this, on
tooling created more than 60 years ago! It's not an era thing, as
much as it's a matter of the intended use of the car.

Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------

Back in the transition era, which most of us model, many gons had wood
floors. Even in the steel trade many had wood floors. I don't know
what the proportion of wood to steel was, but big roads like the PRR
had both wood and steel floored gons. Elden could probably cite the
particular classes which had wood floors.

Jim


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Tim O'Connor
 

Right. It's easier to remember that with 87.1 scale, and a digital
caliper that breaks an inch into 1000 parts, that each part is a scale
.0871 inches (and .048 in P:48 and .064 in S scale)

So to convert the digital readout of 5.580 into HO scale, just multiply
5580 x .0871 = 486.02" . In other words, ignore the decimal point, and do
the multiplication. This is why it would be so easy to change the readout
to HO scale - Assuming you can handle HO dimensions in decimal. :-)

Tim O'Connor

The problem arises when people internalize the incorrect scale factor, then apply it to large dimensions. Example:

A nominal 40'-6" freightcar is 486" long. Properly scaled, that's 486/87.1 = 5.580 actual inches.

Do the same calculation using 1" = .012", and you get 486 x .012 = 5.832 actual inches.

5.832 - 5.580 = .252
.252 x 87.1 = 21.95"

You've just built a model that's almost two HO scale feet too long. And people had a fit about the Branchline 41'-6" boxcar.

All these estimations have a use, and a place where they are appropriate, but we need to realize what we are doing. Some of the recent messages here are telling me that some people might not.

Dennis


Re: Wood floors in gons?

Thomas Birkett
 

The 2-1/4" tongue and groove yellow pine decking for flat cars, plain box
cars and gons came to Topeka Shops in large bundles from saw mills in East
Texas. No doubt since most of the gon and hopper work was done in Cleburne,
they had a similar deal. La Junta did a lot of flat car rehabilitation at
one time and Topeka Purchasing would buy the material and Topeka Store
Department would inventory it until it was needed in LaJunta.

At one time I think it was treated, probably with creosote, but toward the
end of wood decking, it was untreated, but painted. It was fastened down
with clips that hooked under the side sills, and stringers so there were not
a bunch of holes punched in them. fyi...Higher quality box cars received
hardwood decking.
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
spsalso
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Wood floors in gons?




I posted the following in the MFCL. I'm also interested in how the matter
was dealt with "back in the day":

Someone on the Atlas forum asked about wood floors in gons--in particular,
Railgons. I "asserted" that Railgons never had wood floors.But it did get me
wondering about the general case. It's interesting that typical flat cars
have wood deck flooring; but, it appears to me, that gons rarely do. I
thought I'd ask "the folks" their opinions on the matter.

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Wood floors in gons?

naptownprr
 

Back in the transition era, which most of us model, many gons had wood floors. Even in the steel trade many had wood floors. I don't know what the proportion of wood to steel was, but big roads like the PRR had both wood and steel floored gons. Elden could probably cite the particular classes which had wood floors.

Jim

Quoting spsalso <Edwardsutorik@...>:

I posted the following in the MFCL. I'm also interested in how the
matter was dealt with "back in the day":


Someone on the Atlas forum asked about wood floors in gons--in
particular, Railgons. I "asserted" that Railgons never had wood
floors.But it did get me wondering about the general case. It's
interesting that typical flat cars have wood deck flooring; but, it
appears to me, that gons rarely do. I thought I'd ask "the folks"
their opinions on the matter.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Wood floors in gons?

spsalso
 

I posted the following in the MFCL. I'm also interested in how the matter was dealt with "back in the day":


Someone on the Atlas forum asked about wood floors in gons--in particular, Railgons. I "asserted" that Railgons never had wood floors.But it did get me wondering about the general case. It's interesting that typical flat cars have wood deck flooring; but, it appears to me, that gons rarely do. I thought I'd ask "the folks" their opinions on the matter.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


But I do find that having the five digits to the right of the decimal allows
me to use my dial caliper more accurately, as I can nudge the needle to
approximate at least the fourth digit. A half inch is slightly less than
.006. Can anybody tell? No, but I feel good about it.

SGL
The problem arises when people internalize the incorrect scale factor, then apply it to large dimensions. Example:

A nominal 40'-6" freightcar is 486" long. Properly scaled, that's 486/87.1 = 5.580 actual inches.

Do the same calculation using 1" = .012", and you get 486 x .012 = 5.832 actual inches.

5.832 - 5.580 = .252
.252 x 87.1 = 21.95"

You've just built a model that's almost two HO scale feet too long. And people had a fit about the Branchline 41'-6" boxcar.

All these estimations have a use, and a place where they are appropriate, but we need to realize what we are doing. Some of the recent messages here are telling me that some people might not.

Dennis


SMMW Future HO resin kits page uploaded

Jim King
 

Another new web page has been added: future HO resin kits. Go to link
below.



http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/future_HO_kits.html



Contact me off-list if you have questions, etc.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

Ph. (828) 777-5619

<www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: Scale Digital Caliper

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Andy Harman wrote:
I remember being fascinated that you could read down to an HO scale
1/4" or .001" on the other scale with a Vernier.
It is indeed fascinating and also incorrect. Try multiplying or
dividing (the appropriate value) by 87.

Tony Thompson

Geez, Tony, do you have to make everybody squirm about what the real answer
is?


0.25

0.00287


0.5

0.00574


0.75

0.00861


1

0.01148

The left if the full size, the right is the HO dimension at 1/87.1

Easier to use

.003

.006

.009

.012

But I do find that having the five digits to the right of the decimal allows
me to use my dial caliper more accurately, as I can nudge the needle to
approximate at least the fourth digit. A half inch is slightly less than
.006. Can anybody tell? No, but I feel good about it.

SGL







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Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=268
Richard replied:
Tim, you've got to pay better attention. You missed the fact that
the car just ahead of the (mostly invisible) MoPac car was a
Milwaukee Road stock car.
Indeed, and neither is a surprise on a PRR stock train. More
interesting to me is the 3rd PRR car with what appears to be a black
(car cement?) roof and door.

Regards
Bruce Smith



Different door, too?



SGL





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Re: Movies w/Freight Cars

CJ Riley
 

--- On Fri, 4/22/11, lnbill <fgexbill@...> wrote:






 









<The trailers I have seen for "Water for Elephants" about circus life which open today, April 22, shows freight car prominently in the background. Reese Witherspoon is one of the human actors.>



Seattle paper gave it a very poor review, putting it in the category of Atlas Shrugged, which mean AS is unlikely to appear at the local theater in this den of liberalism. Other opinions?
CJ RileyBainbridge Island WA




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]