Date   

Re: Wine Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 24, 2011, at 2:13 PM, moonmuln wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would
have been some serious structural problems making the joints between
the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.
Why would these "structural problems" have been different
between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Tony,

I don't think that Richard meant that the structural issues relate
to wine vs. vinegar. Rather, there are some differences between
this car and typical wood vinegar tank cars, that would be issues
if the tank is actually of wood construction.

Vinegar cars typically have a small filler hatch, not an expansion
dome. How is the joint between two intersecting wood stave
cylinders made leakproof?

This car has none of the end bracing typical of horizontal wood
tanks. How is the tank anchored against longitudinal movement? Are
the heads adequate to resist bursting?

It's not at all clear in the photo, but I don't see anything
resembling the multiple wide cradles that typically support a wood
tank.

I agree with Richard that this looks like a steel center-anchorage
tank car with a wood jacket. Neat looking car anyhow, and I wish
we had a better photo.

Jack Mullen
Thanks, Jack. You have succinctly written what I would have wanted
to say.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Jack Mullen
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would
have been some serious structural problems making the joints between
the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.
Why would these "structural problems" have been different
between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Tony,

I don't think that Richard meant that the structural issues relate to wine vs. vinegar. Rather, there are some differences between this car and typical wood vinegar tank cars, that would be issues if the tank is actually of wood construction.

Vinegar cars typically have a small filler hatch, not an expansion dome. How is the joint between two intersecting wood stave cylinders made leakproof?

This car has none of the end bracing typical of horizontal wood tanks. How is the tank anchored against longitudinal movement? Are the heads adequate to resist bursting?

It's not at all clear in the photo, but I don't see anything resembling the multiple wide cradles that typically support a wood tank.

I agree with Richard that this looks like a steel center-anchorage tank car with a wood jacket. Neat looking car anyhow, and I wish we had a better photo.

Jack Mullen


Re: Wood floors in gons?

spsalso
 

Thank you all for your answers!


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Larry Sexton
 

Gene,



On the "Advance Order Form" the price was given as $36.95.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify





Bob or anyone else,

I couldn't find a price on the B&O site. Probably it is very obvious but I
couldn't find it. Has price been announced yet?

A couple of those M-26 box cars would fit in my layout nicely. B&O 267268 &
270197 were on the M&StL 28 March 1948 and 9 February 1948 respectively
carrying feed and flour respectively.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "rwitt_2000"
<rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Rob,

The car is one of the many B&O ARA boxcar assigned to class M-26. These
have been available in resin from Sunshine and in styrene from Red
Caboose. Since you model the year 1946 you are in luck because the B&O
Historical Society will be offering a M-26B painted in B&O boxcar brown
lettered with the early Kuhler capitol dome emblem.

http://borhs.org/

Scroll down the home page and look for the "advance order form"

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would have been some serious structural problems making the joints between the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.
Why would these "structural problems" have been different between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ATSF Bx 12 box cars.

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

Westerfield BX12 boxcar kits: I waited too long to order these kits from Al, and so I am now casting about to find any of these kits -both original and as enlarged- that listers might have surplus to their needs and would like to sell. Please reply only off line.

Thanks!

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Bob or anyone else,

I couldn't find a price on the B&O site. Probably it is very obvious but I couldn't find it. Has price been announced yet?

A couple of those M-26 box cars would fit in my layout nicely. B&O 267268 & 270197 were on the M&StL 28 March 1948 and 9 February 1948 respectively carrying feed and flour respectively.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Rob,

The car is one of the many B&O ARA boxcar assigned to class M-26. These
have been available in resin from Sunshine and in styrene from Red
Caboose. Since you model the year 1946 you are in luck because the B&O
Historical Society will be offering a M-26B painted in B&O boxcar brown
lettered with the early Kuhler capitol dome emblem.

http://borhs.org/

Scroll down the home page and look for the "advance order form"

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 21, 2011, at 11:17 PM, Bob C wrote:

Below is a link to an image I found of wooden tank cars being
loaded at the Winehaven facility in Richmond, CA, circa 1918. The
image is from the Richmond Public Library. The image can be
enlarged quite a bit without losing detail.

http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt658025x8/

There appears to be no markings on these tank cars. Does anyone
know more about them?
That's a very interesting photo, Bob. Too bad the tank cars aren't
more in the foreground, though - as you say - one can enlarge the
image. The underframes appear to be of General American (or rather,
at the time they were built, German American) origin. I'm inclined
to doubt that the tanks were actually wood. Wine, unlike vinegar,
didn't require wood tanks, and there would have been some serious
structural problems making the joints between the tank and the ends
and dome leakproof. However, wine did require protection from major
temperature variations, so I think what you're seeing here is
actually a steel tank, with some sort of lining, to which wood
insulation had been applied. This would have been done before the
practice developed of wrapping insulating material around the tank
and then covering it with a thin sheet metal shell.

Richard Hendrickson


Soo 176356

Robert kirkham
 

I wonder if, since the problem with these earlier cars is centering the doors, would it make sense to start with the P2k 50' single door car? Then the changes are details like the sill reinforcement and tabs, changed door tracks etc.

Or am I missing key spotting features? I suppose a lot depends on the width of the kit doors and the spacing of the side panels on the model. I'm assuming they are basically the same.

Rob Kirkham


--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 3:59 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Rob

I think these were built in 1942. 50 foot AAR cars with 12'6" door openings
and S-corner ends. A builder photo of 176480 in Dorin's "The Soo Line". From
series 175900-176498...
Even numbers only. These are really hard to model, as the 12'-6" door opening is centered on the car, not staggered like a normal automobile car. While the Soo called these automobile cars (because the AAR called them automobile cars) they were not loader equipped, and I suspect they were really purchased for hauling rolled paper. The Soo had something like 1300 cars in eight or nine different groups built between 1937 and 1957, all with this same door arrangement, which may have been unique to the Soo. The later cars with the improved Dreadnaught ends are pretty easy to kitbash by plugging the double doors from an Accurail 40' double door car into any of several fifty foot cars, but I haven't given much thought how to do these earlier cars.

Dennis


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

Dennis wrote: "with this same door arrangement, which
may have been unique to the Soo."

The CGW had 50' DDs with centered doors too. Weren't the SOO cars 10' inside height?
Clark Propst
10'-1", 10'-5", or 10'-6",depending when built. I didn't know about the CGW cars.

Dennis


Re: Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted

al_brown03
 

The Tichy car's still available.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 12:59 AM 4/24/2011 -0000, you wrote:
The Tichy car was not included. The mini-kit consisted
of the following resin parts; ends, fishbelly center sill,
and doors, plus decals.
Ouch.

Is the Tichy car itself OOP?

Andy


Re: Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted

Dennis Williams
 

Jim.
  Is that the MK 15?
  Dennis

--- On Sat, 4/23/11, Larry Sexton <SSEXTON9@...> wrote:


From: Larry Sexton <SSEXTON9@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 2:02 PM


 



I was bidding on one on eBay but quit after it past $63. Someone wanted it
badly. A good candidate for upgrade and re-issue.

Larry Sexton

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim
Hayes
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:29 PM
To: Stm Frt Cars
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted

Does anyone have the Sunshine Mini-Kit for the Wabash auto service USRA
clone boxcar?

It's used with a Tichy boxcar kit. It's one I don't have for my website and
someone has been asking about it.

Thanks,

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NYC 824-H 3 bay hoppers

 

40'8" 3 BAY ALL STEEL SELF CLEARING OFFSET HOPPER

2744

70

 

1000

1952-1977

 

 

STEWART KIT #10300
ACCURAIL KIT #7500
 

DIFFERENT STYLE CAR ENDS AND SIDES

Brian, this is from Terry Link's site
 
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-904409.jpg
 
Rich Christie

--- On Sat, 4/23/11, Brian Carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:


From: Brian Carlson <prrk41361@...>
Subject: [STMFC] NYC 824-H 3 bay hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 11:09 AM


 



I'm looking to model a couple of these and I was wondering what model is a
better starting point. The Bowser/Stewart or the Accurail car. I can't
compare the proto photos I have to the small model photos on the web to
really tell.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

In a message dated 23/04/2011 22:13:25 GMT Daylight Time, rdkirkham@...
writes:

- a car with almost no reporting marks - seems to have 4 1/2 panels each
side of the doors, 7/8 ends - some sort of re-build?






Rob

I bet on an ex-Universal Cement car, either Northampton & Bath or Hannibal
Connecting. The welded on towing brackets above the trucks and the repair
panel on the door do it for me. Westerfield kit - oops, just too late.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Tim O'Connor
 

Paul, say what? The photo shows 77322, and indeed it is part of
series 76900-77414. I think you are confusing it with the Soo car.
Intermountain or Sunshine in HO scale.

Tim O'Connor

------------------------------

Jack,
Wrong series! 176XXX, not 76900-77414. No model source.
Paul Lyons

CNW 77322 - has 10 panel sides, 5/5 ends, 3 panel doors, 12 flat panel roof
Modified AAR, 10'5"IH, 76900-77414 even, Pullman 5-42.
Jack Mullen


Re: Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted

Andy Harman
 

At 12:59 AM 4/24/2011 -0000, you wrote:
The Tichy car was not included. The mini-kit consisted
of the following resin parts; ends, fishbelly center sill,
and doors, plus decals.
Ouch.

Is the Tichy car itself OOP?

Andy


Re: Sunshine Mini kit ATSF Rr-19 reefer

Bill McCoy
 

I looked more carefully at Chapter 9 of the Santa Fe reefer book and see that the Rr-19 series got a major rebuilding starting in 1953. I would expect that this was completed by my date, August 1857, so the question becomes did the the SFRD 31254 and 31255 get new ends , sliding doors and what were the new numbers? If they did get doors and ends then this mini kit is too early for me and for sale too.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@..., "Bill" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

I came across the Sunshine Mini kit for an ATSF Rr-19 with plate ends which I want to build. My date is August 1957 and looking at the Santa Fe rolling stock series reefer book it appears that one of the Rr-19s cars lasted until 1971 albeit in ice service and renumbered to SFRD 188280. I'm trying to see what the state of the 2 plate end cars (SFRD 31254 and 31255) was in August 1957. Did they have the "Ship Travel" paint scheme and were both in revenue service? Had they been renumbered? I checked the search feature on this group but there was nothing answering these questions that I saw.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

rwitt_2000
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

I'm wondering about built or re-built date and HO modelling options
for each of these cars (as I model 1946).

Included in the list is: - B & O boxcar - reminds me of the PRR X29
====================================

Rob,

The car is one of the many B&O ARA boxcar assigned to class M-26. These
have been available in resin from Sunshine and in styrene from Red
Caboose. Since you model the year 1946 you are in luck because the B&O
Historical Society will be offering a M-26B painted in B&O boxcar brown
lettered with the early Kuhler capitol dome emblem.

http://borhs.org/

Scroll down the home page and look for the "advance order form"

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Sunshine Mini-Kit instructions wanted

Bill McCoy
 

Hi Jim,

I have the one from the Wabash 82000-82513 from the '04 Naperville meet. I expect this is the one. I'll scan it and send it to you.

I plan to sell the Mini kit. Anyone interested please contact me off line at wpmccoy@.... $10.00 plus postage.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@..., Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

Does anyone have the Sunshine Mini-Kit for the Wabash auto service USRA
clone boxcar?

It's used with a Tichy boxcar kit. It's one I don't have for my website and
someone has been asking about it.

Thanks,

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Clark Propst
 

Dennis wrote: "with this same door arrangement, which
may have been unique to the Soo."

The CGW had 50' DDs with centered doors too. Weren't the SOO cars 10' inside height?
Clark Propst

96181 - 96200 of 195509