Hello, can some one direct me to a site where I can download the above, or does anyone have them and would email them to me?

Thanks,

Riley Kinney

Rob Kirkham asked:
"I don't suppose anyone knows of an HO model of these?"

There aren't any short of scratchbuilding or heavy kitbashing of USRA-design
steel boxcar models to produce taller models.  During the early 1930s, the NYCS
built evolutionary developments of the USRA-design steel boxcars in both auto
and boxcar designs with varying ends and inside heights (9 ft 4 in to 10 ft). 
While nowhere near as plentiful as the 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar
lots, these early 1930s auto cars and boxcars are also distinctly
NYCS. Unfortunately, the NYCS boxcar fleet has been very poorly represented in
models outide of AAR designs (and not particularly represented even there, with
10 ft IH postwar cars available only in resin).  This boxcar fleet has just as
much variety as the far better documented PRR and ATSF boxcar fleets, and the
resin manufacturers have barely scratched the surface.


This subject definitely deserves closer analysis, and previously presented
overviews of NYCS car fleets at PM meets (English, Hinman, Kline) certainly
deserve greater distribution.  Just because the historical society is moribund
doesn't mean the rest of us can't help to fill the vacuum.


Ben Hom

While I'm no expert on anything NYC, my review of the photos on the Terry Link's Canada Southern site suggests this series bears a resemblance to the 1948 photo I posted last week http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Vancouver%20BC%20post%20war%20yard%20photos%20/N%20yard%201948/.

The Canada Southern site includes a photo from the Richard Burg collection posted at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-55999.jpg and a drawing at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-610.jpg. These cars were apparently built in 1930. The photo seems to suggest paired rivet rows at each panel seam spaced perhaps as much as 6" apart (rough guess). The roster info also includes this detail: "VARIOUS CARS RENUMBERED NYC 199000-199999 STARTING IN 1941. RENUMBERED NYC 214000-214999 STARTING IN 1952. RENUMBERED NYC 223000-223999 STARTING IN 1959. SOME CARS CONVERTED TO LOT 924-B." For my modelling era of 1946, only the first of these re-numberings is of concern.

I take it these re-numberings did not eliminate the entire number series (at least not immediately) - such that cars were in both the NYC 55000-55999 series and cars in the NYC 199000-199999 series at the same time. But then I have to ask - were cars in both series identical? Either class would be good to see in a very clear photo but my access to NYC rolling stock photos does not include anything in the series.



I don't suppose anyone knows of an HO model of these?



Rob Kirkham

However, wine did require protection from major
temperature variations, so I think what you're seeing here is
actually a steel tank, with some sort of lining, to which wood
insulation had been applied

There's also, on both cars, what appears more like a square insulated reefer hatch on each dome.

Also, the hoses used to load these cars appears to be somewhat casually draped from the building
and (presumably) just pouring the load into the car via gravity feed, which together with the overhead
wires, implies a non flammable (and non caustic) load.

So, what about that box beam structure above the draft gear?

Tom Casey

In the same vein, I may not be seeing it, but is there a way to complete the order form on-line, or does one have to send it in as a hard copy? I'm delighted to be able to pick up a couple of cars in this scheme.

Rob Kirkham
M--------------------------------------------------
From: "Larry Sexton" <SSEXTON9@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:53 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

Gene,



On the "Advance Order Form" the price was given as $36.95.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify





Bob or anyone else,

I couldn't find a price on the B&O site. Probably it is very obvious but I
couldn't find it. Has price been announced yet?

A couple of those M-26 box cars would fit in my layout nicely. B&O 267268 &
270197 were on the M&StL 28 March 1948 and 9 February 1948 respectively
carrying feed and flour respectively.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "rwitt_2000"
<rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Rob,

The car is one of the many B&O ARA boxcar assigned to class M-26. These
have been available in resin from Sunshine and in styrene from Red
Caboose. Since you model the year 1946 you are in luck because the B&O
Historical Society will be offering a M-26B painted in B&O boxcar brown
lettered with the early Kuhler capitol dome emblem.

http://borhs.org/

Scroll down the home page and look for the "advance order form"

Regards,

Bob Witt

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Jack Mullen wrote:

I don't think that Richard meant that the structural issues relate to wine vs. vinegar. Rather, there are some differences between this car and typical wood vinegar tank cars, that would be issues if the tank is actually of wood construction.

I agree with Richard that this looks like a steel center-anchorage tank car with a wood jacket. Neat looking car anyhow, and I wish we had a better photo.

I see what you mean. Thanks for the clarification, Jack.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I agree with the List Moderator the Digital Caliper subject

has been covered and it's time to go back to Freight Cars.


I do want to thank everyone that gave input, I read every

one of them.


In closing, as we all know new products come to be through

a want for them. I have ask Micro Mark to look at converting

their 14" Stainless Steel Didital Caliber into having a

multiple scale read out.


So please let them know your wants at info@...


Thanks to all

Ed Ursem

Dennis,
The CGW 50' centered DDs were built by Pullman with their proprietary ends. Several of these cars were equipped with DF equipment and paint Maroon with large DF in yellow/gold.

I've made models of these cars using Stan Rydarowicz's 5/5 ends and a P2K single door 50' box car... I think?
Clark Propst

On Apr 24, 2011, at 2:13 PM, moonmuln wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would
have been some serious structural problems making the joints between
the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.

Why would these "structural problems" have been different
between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony,

I don't think that Richard meant that the structural issues relate
to wine vs. vinegar. Rather, there are some differences between
this car and typical wood vinegar tank cars, that would be issues
if the tank is actually of wood construction.

Vinegar cars typically have a small filler hatch, not an expansion
dome. How is the joint between two intersecting wood stave
cylinders made leakproof?

This car has none of the end bracing typical of horizontal wood
tanks. How is the tank anchored against longitudinal movement? Are
the heads adequate to resist bursting?

It's not at all clear in the photo, but I don't see anything
resembling the multiple wide cradles that typically support a wood
tank.

I agree with Richard that this looks like a steel center-anchorage
tank car with a wood jacket. Neat looking car anyhow, and I wish
we had a better photo.

Jack Mullen

Thanks, Jack. You have succinctly written what I would have wanted
to say.

Richard Hendrickson

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would
have been some serious structural problems making the joints between
the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.

Why would these "structural problems" have been different
between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony,

I don't think that Richard meant that the structural issues relate to wine vs. vinegar. Rather, there are some differences between this car and typical wood vinegar tank cars, that would be issues if the tank is actually of wood construction.

Vinegar cars typically have a small filler hatch, not an expansion dome. How is the joint between two intersecting wood stave cylinders made leakproof?

This car has none of the end bracing typical of horizontal wood tanks. How is the tank anchored against longitudinal movement? Are the heads adequate to resist bursting?

It's not at all clear in the photo, but I don't see anything resembling the multiple wide cradles that typically support a wood tank.

I agree with Richard that this looks like a steel center-anchorage tank car with a wood jacket. Neat looking car anyhow, and I wish we had a better photo.

Jack Mullen

Thank you all for your answers!


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Gene,



On the "Advance Order Form" the price was given as $36.95.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify





Bob or anyone else,

I couldn't find a price on the B&O site. Probably it is very obvious but I
couldn't find it. Has price been announced yet?

A couple of those M-26 box cars would fit in my layout nicely. B&O 267268 &
270197 were on the M&StL 28 March 1948 and 9 February 1948 respectively
carrying feed and flour respectively.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "rwitt_2000"
<rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Rob,

The car is one of the many B&O ARA boxcar assigned to class M-26. These
have been available in resin from Sunshine and in styrene from Red
Caboose. Since you model the year 1946 you are in luck because the B&O
Historical Society will be offering a M-26B painted in B&O boxcar brown
lettered with the early Kuhler capitol dome emblem.

http://borhs.org/

Scroll down the home page and look for the "advance order form"

Regards,

Bob Witt

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Wine, unlike vinegar, didn't require wood tanks, and there would have been some serious structural problems making the joints between the tank and the ends and dome leakproof.

Why would these "structural problems" have been different between wine and vinegar tank cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Westerfield BX12 boxcar kits: I waited too long to order these kits from Al, and so I am now casting about to find any of these kits -both original and as enlarged- that listers might have surplus to their needs and would like to sell. Please reply only off line.

Thanks!

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Bob or anyone else,

I couldn't find a price on the B&O site. Probably it is very obvious but I couldn't find it. Has price been announced yet?

A couple of those M-26 box cars would fit in my layout nicely. B&O 267268 & 270197 were on the M&StL 28 March 1948 and 9 February 1948 respectively carrying feed and flour respectively.

Gene Green

On Apr 21, 2011, at 11:17 PM, Bob C wrote:

Below is a link to an image I found of wooden tank cars being
loaded at the Winehaven facility in Richmond, CA, circa 1918. The
image is from the Richmond Public Library. The image can be
enlarged quite a bit without losing detail.

http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt658025x8/

There appears to be no markings on these tank cars. Does anyone
know more about them?

That's a very interesting photo, Bob. Too bad the tank cars aren't
more in the foreground, though - as you say - one can enlarge the
image. The underframes appear to be of General American (or rather,
at the time they were built, German American) origin. I'm inclined
to doubt that the tanks were actually wood. Wine, unlike vinegar,
didn't require wood tanks, and there would have been some serious
structural problems making the joints between the tank and the ends
and dome leakproof. However, wine did require protection from major
temperature variations, so I think what you're seeing here is
actually a steel tank, with some sort of lining, to which wood
insulation had been applied. This would have been done before the
practice developed of wrapping insulating material around the tank
and then covering it with a thin sheet metal shell.

Richard Hendrickson

I wonder if, since the problem with these earlier cars is centering the doors, would it make sense to start with the P2k 50' single door car? Then the changes are details like the sill reinforcement and tabs, changed door tracks etc.

Or am I missing key spotting features? I suppose a lot depends on the width of the kit doors and the spacing of the side panels on the model. I'm assuming they are basically the same.

Rob Kirkham


--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 3:59 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo automobile car & others to identify

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Rob

I think these were built in 1942. 50 foot AAR cars with 12'6" door openings
and S-corner ends. A builder photo of 176480 in Dorin's "The Soo Line". From
series 175900-176498...

Even numbers only. These are really hard to model, as the 12'-6" door opening is centered on the car, not staggered like a normal automobile car. While the Soo called these automobile cars (because the AAR called them automobile cars) they were not loader equipped, and I suspect they were really purchased for hauling rolled paper. The Soo had something like 1300 cars in eight or nine different groups built between 1937 and 1957, all with this same door arrangement, which may have been unique to the Soo. The later cars with the improved Dreadnaught ends are pretty easy to kitbash by plugging the double doors from an Accurail 40' double door car into any of several fifty foot cars, but I haven't given much thought how to do these earlier cars.

Dennis

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

Dennis wrote: "with this same door arrangement, which
may have been unique to the Soo."

The CGW had 50' DDs with centered doors too. Weren't the SOO cars 10' inside height?
Clark Propst

10'-1", 10'-5", or 10'-6",depending when built. I didn't know about the CGW cars.

Dennis

The Tichy car's still available.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Jim.
  Is that the MK 15?
  Dennis