Date   

Re: L&A truss rod box cars

Eric Hansmann
 

That's a pretty neat image Tim.

It seems many of the cars may have a similar stencil that is seen pretty clearly on the first full car, "Do Not Load Off L&A". I wonder if these were LCL only or recently retired cars pressed into emergency service.

Also interesting is the round emblem on the left side of that first full car. Part of it can also be seen at the far left of the image. The emblem is on several of the cars, just not as apparent as it is on those first couple.


Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Come to the Central Ohio Proto Meet in May!
http://www.hansmanns.org/meet/index.htm


L&A truss rod box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Re: B & O M26 order form

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Bob!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:47 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B & O M26 order form




Rob Kirkham wrote:

In the same vein, I may not be seeing it, but is there a way to complete the
order form on-line, or does one have to send it in as a hard copy? I'm
delighted to be able to pick up a couple of cars in this scheme.
=================

Rob,

My understanding is the Store Manager does not place an item for on-line ordering until it is in stock. The "hard copy" ordering method serves as a reservation and those requests will be processed first. It is a method to assure that you will get your models. I don't recall the total number of models ordered, but as with most historical societies special models it is a limited run.

If you want more information please contact the B&ORR HS store manager directly at: storemanager at borhs.org. The link is also available through the "Contacts" at the top of the borhs.org home page.


Regards,

Bob Witt
Director-at-Large
B&ORR Historical Society






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Pullman drawings @ IRM; was Soo 176356

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Dennis - very helpful!

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:21 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pullman drawings @ IRM; was Soo 176356





--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with Pullman's freight car drawings. For modelling
purposes, what would be the most useful drawings to order of a car like
this? With CPR drawings a general arrangement mechanical drawing usually
includes sufficient information. Would it be the same with Pullman's
drawings or is another approach required?

Rob Kirkham
Rob,

I am more familiar with the Haskell & Barker drawings we are presently sorting in preparation for cataloging, but have had some P-S drawings copied. Typically there are three large scale (1" = 1'-0")sheets, titled:

General Arrangement
Underframe - Brake Arrangement
Stenciling

And sometimes a fourth detailing the steel members of composite cars.

There are also a myriad of smaller drawings of component parts, but not easy to find because there is no master list of drawings.

Pullman's General Arrangement drawings look exactly like the drawings published in the older CBC's; an end elevation, cross section, partial side elevation / partial section, and a plan view split four ways, showing the roof and sections at three levels down through the car. As I recall, no brake equipment is shown on the General Arrangement drawings.

The Underframe - Brake Arrangement show the brakes as built, so if the car was built with K brakes, that won't be very useful for a later era model, but often the steel details help make sense of what's missing in the Gen. Arrangement drawing.

The Stenciling drawing shows lettering placement, but not the actual lettering shapes. They look close, but keep in mind there were other drawings that actually defined the letters, medallions, etc, so the purpose of the large stenciling drawing was simply placement. The elevations the lettering is placed upon are very simplified drawings.

The Steel Details are the least useful for HO scale modeling, detailing the cross sections of pressings, and dimensioning all the hole punching.

All these are on E or F size sheets, 48" or 60" long. Since the Library scans the originals for reproduction, it is possible to order them at 1/2 size, and they are still very readable. I would recommend this size, as few of us have a full size drafting table available next to our workbench to spread the drawings out.

You will need to contact the library about price, since there is a certain amount of work involved to identify the drawing numbers that pertain to a given lot, retrieve the storage tube, and roll out the drawings to see what actually exists. Once drawings are scanned, they can be printed from the digital file much more cost effectively, which is one reason that my goal in to obtain copies of both the Haskell & Barker and P-S drawings of Soo Line equipment for the Soo Society; that will ensure that copies are easily available from IRM, but this has not happened yet, and may still be a year or two down the pike. At any rate, you still need to contact IRM and sign a terms of use agreement with Bombardier, which actually still owns the drawing collection.

Contact information is Ted Anderson:

By Email:
pullmanlibrary@...

By Letter:
Illinois Railway Museum
Pullman Library
Post Office Box 427
Union, IL 60180

By Phone:
Wednesdays 10:00am to 4:00pm at 815-923-2020

There is more information on the Pullman Library's web page:

http://www.irm.org/pullmanlibrary/faqs.html

Dennis






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Kitbashing

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:03 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

... But then I discovered, when I went to convert it from Code
110 to Code 88 wheels, that the wheels on the model are too small.
The prototype cars, being in passenger service, had 36" wheels, but
the wheels on the model weren't even 33". Replacement 36" Code 88
wheels wouldn't fit until I took the trucks apart and re-machined the
journal bearings. Then when I got the trucks back together I put the
car on the track to check coupler height (something I always do
before a project like this is very far along). Way too high off the
track, and no easy way to fix it. I had to cut down and re-bush the
truck mountings on the bolsters to get the car to ride at the correct
height - and then the screws that hold the side frames to the truck
bolsters interfered with the body bolsters and the wheels dragged on
the crossties. It took a good deal of filing (and, of course,
repainting) before those problems were corrected. ...

Richard,

That is the reason some just move to Proto:87. When we attach
essentially non-scale trucks and couplers to nearly scale size car
bodies we run into clearance problems you describe. :-).

Bob Witt
But Bob, I don't have similar problems with the RTR products of most
other manufacturers. I convert all my rolling stock to Code 88
wheels and Kadee scale couplers, and usually the most I have to do to
get coupler height correct is add one or two Kadee truck washers.
I'll hazard a guess: on the Walthers express reefers, the Chinese
ran into problems with coupler height and instead of fixing what was
wrong, they just put smaller wheels on it - smaller, even, than scale
33" wheels. The trouble started when I put the right diameter wheels
on the car.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Kitbashing

Clark Propst
 

I agree, unless it's a 'must have' car there are enough good models to build and I already have too many too. I did just make a 50' flat car out of 2 Red Caboose 42' cars. The side frame angles aren't right, but what you gonna do? Frank Hodina won't re-make the lost masters, he did the same kitbash.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
"But I have a couple of cabinets full of styrene
and resin kits to build that are dead-on accurate, or close to it,
and when (if) I get them all built, I'll have way more freight cars
than my diorama will hold. So I'm not doing any more extensive
kitbshing unless the prototype is a car I absolutely can't live
without. And right now, I can't think of a single example."


Re: Pullman drawings @ IRM; was Soo 176356

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with Pullman's freight car drawings. For modelling
purposes, what would be the most useful drawings to order of a car like
this? With CPR drawings a general arrangement mechanical drawing usually
includes sufficient information. Would it be the same with Pullman's
drawings or is another approach required?

Rob Kirkham
Rob,

I am more familiar with the Haskell & Barker drawings we are presently sorting in preparation for cataloging, but have had some P-S drawings copied. Typically there are three large scale (1" = 1'-0")sheets, titled:

General Arrangement
Underframe - Brake Arrangement
Stenciling

And sometimes a fourth detailing the steel members of composite cars.

There are also a myriad of smaller drawings of component parts, but not easy to find because there is no master list of drawings.

Pullman's General Arrangement drawings look exactly like the drawings published in the older CBC's; an end elevation, cross section, partial side elevation / partial section, and a plan view split four ways, showing the roof and sections at three levels down through the car. As I recall, no brake equipment is shown on the General Arrangement drawings.

The Underframe - Brake Arrangement show the brakes as built, so if the car was built with K brakes, that won't be very useful for a later era model, but often the steel details help make sense of what's missing in the Gen. Arrangement drawing.

The Stenciling drawing shows lettering placement, but not the actual lettering shapes. They look close, but keep in mind there were other drawings that actually defined the letters, medallions, etc, so the purpose of the large stenciling drawing was simply placement. The elevations the lettering is placed upon are very simplified drawings.

The Steel Details are the least useful for HO scale modeling, detailing the cross sections of pressings, and dimensioning all the hole punching.

All these are on E or F size sheets, 48" or 60" long. Since the Library scans the originals for reproduction, it is possible to order them at 1/2 size, and they are still very readable. I would recommend this size, as few of us have a full size drafting table available next to our workbench to spread the drawings out.

You will need to contact the library about price, since there is a certain amount of work involved to identify the drawing numbers that pertain to a given lot, retrieve the storage tube, and roll out the drawings to see what actually exists. Once drawings are scanned, they can be printed from the digital file much more cost effectively, which is one reason that my goal in to obtain copies of both the Haskell & Barker and P-S drawings of Soo Line equipment for the Soo Society; that will ensure that copies are easily available from IRM, but this has not happened yet, and may still be a year or two down the pike. At any rate, you still need to contact IRM and sign a terms of use agreement with Bombardier, which actually still owns the drawing collection.

Contact information is Ted Anderson:

By Email:
pullmanlibrary@...

By Letter:
Illinois Railway Museum
Pullman Library
Post Office Box 427
Union, IL 60180

By Phone:
Wednesdays 10:00am to 4:00pm at 815-923-2020

There is more information on the Pullman Library's web page:

http://www.irm.org/pullmanlibrary/faqs.html

Dennis


Re: Kitbashing

rwitt_2000
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

... But then I discovered, when I went to convert it from Code
110 to Code 88 wheels, that the wheels on the model are too small.
The prototype cars, being in passenger service, had 36" wheels, but
the wheels on the model weren't even 33". Replacement 36" Code 88
wheels wouldn't fit until I took the trucks apart and re-machined the
journal bearings. Then when I got the trucks back together I put the
car on the track to check coupler height (something I always do
before a project like this is very far along). Way too high off the
track, and no easy way to fix it. I had to cut down and re-bush the
truck mountings on the bolsters to get the car to ride at the correct
height - and then the screws that hold the side frames to the truck
bolsters interfered with the body bolsters and the wheels dragged on
the crossties. It took a good deal of filing (and, of course,
repainting) before those problems were corrected. ...

Richard,

That is the reason some just move to Proto:87. When we attach
essentially non-scale trucks and couplers to nearly scale size car
bodies we run into clearance problems you describe. :-).

Bob Witt


Re: B & O M26 order form

rwitt_2000
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

In the same vein, I may not be seeing it, but is there a way to complete the
order form on-line, or does one have to send it in as a hard copy? I'm
delighted to be able to pick up a couple of cars in this scheme.
=================

Rob,

My understanding is the Store Manager does not place an item for on-line ordering until it is in stock. The "hard copy" ordering method serves as a reservation and those requests will be processed first. It is a method to assure that you will get your models. I don't recall the total number of models ordered, but as with most historical societies special models it is a limited run.

If you want more information please contact the B&ORR HS store manager directly at: storemanager at borhs.org. The link is also available through the "Contacts" at the top of the borhs.org home page.


Regards,

Bob Witt
Director-at-Large
B&ORR Historical Society


Pullman drawings @ IRM; was Soo 176356

Robert kirkham
 

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with Pullman's freight car drawings. For modelling purposes, what would be the most useful drawings to order of a car like this? With CPR drawings a general arrangement mechanical drawing usually includes sufficient information. Would it be the same with Pullman's drawings or is another approach required?

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 3:35 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Soo 176356



--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

I don't disagree with that. But what there's likely to be much
disagreement about is what constitutes "slightly wrong."

Slightly wrong trucks? I can accept that if there are no "exactly
right" trucks available.

Wrong number and arrangement of side sheathing panels? Whoa!

Richard Hendrickson
Actually, the objection was the P2K rendition of the rectangular panel roof, since I had already suggested new styrene sides with Archer rivets.

It may be easier to just model the earlier 10'-1" IH cars using parts from two Red Caboose 40' double door cars, or one double door car and an extra roof and underframe. The RC kit should provide the correct ends (I assume these have square corner ends) doors and a better roof; the sides still need to be built up from styrene and Archer rivets. I'm not sure what it takes to splice 40' car roofs into fifty car roofs; three more panels, but the length doesn't work out exactly right. However, the adjustment would be in the flat end panels.

All theseare P-S built cars, so drawings should be available from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum. Lot numbers are:

Lot 5569, 8-37 (175000-175498, even)
Lot 5599. 12-39 (175500-175698, even)

The cars Rob was asking about were 175900-176498, even, built 2-42 as Lot 5689.

Dennis


Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Scale Digital Caliper

frograbbit602
 

Hello Ed,
I got behind in checking posts due to packing the railroad and equipment for the move to a new home this weekend. I have the PFM caliper which I use all the time and a General plastic one which I use every so often as I prefer the stainless steel. If a new one were produced for a reasonable price I would buy one to replace the General plastic one.
Lester Breuer

--- In STMFC@..., "Ed" <nprybiged@...> wrote:

Hi Everyone

Many years ago Pacific Fast Mail (PFM) had a Stainless Steel Caliper that gave you
both HO and O scales without a Dial or Digital readout. With PFM long out of business
needless to say if you have one it's worth it's weight in gold.

Now, I would like to get your thoughts on the need for a 12" long Stainless Steel Digital
Caliper that would give you HO, O and N scale read outs starting in
1 scale inch increments. It would have a depth gauge that would give you a read out in all the scales.

Please, let me know what your thoughts are.

Thanks for your time.

Ed Ursem


Kitbashing

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 3:14 PM, cepropst@q.com wrote:

It all depends on your tolerance level Richard. What errors you can
live with. If I want a model of a particular car and none is
available, I'll live with the wrong number of panels. Nobody's
going to count them while the car is moving around on the layout
anyway. You haven't visited : )

I also feel that some guys look at discrepancies as excuses for why
they can't build models.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Well, I'm not one of the "some guys" who are looking for excuses, as
I have a long history of kitbashing freight cars, including some that
were fairly complex. But I have a couple of cabinets full of styrene
and resin kits to build that are dead-on accurate, or close to it,
and when (if) I get them all built, I'll have way more freight cars
than my diorama will hold. So I'm not doing any more extensive
kitbshing unless the prototype is a car I absolutely can't live
without. And right now, I can't think of a single example.

Speaking of kitbashing, I'm finding that even some so-called "ready
to run" models need so much work it amounts to kitbashing. I'm close
to finishing a Walthers REA express reefer for my clinic at
Sacramento in July, and I've had to spend hours on it. Adding the
wire grabs which came with it but weren't installed was simple
enough. But then I discovered, when I went to convert it from Code
110 to Code 88 wheels, that the wheels on the model are too small.
The prototype cars, being in passenger service, had 36" wheels, but
the wheels on the model weren't even 33". Replacement 36" Code 88
wheels wouldn't fit until I took the trucks apart and re-machined the
journal bearings. Then when I got the trucks back together I put the
car on the track to check coupler height (something I always do
before a project like this is very far along). Way too high off the
track, and no easy way to fix it. I had to cut down and re-bush the
truck mountings on the bolsters to get the car to ride at the correct
height - and then the screws that hold the side frames to the truck
bolsters interfered with the body bolsters and the wheels dragged on
the crossties. It took a good deal of filing (and, of course,
repainting) before those problems were corrected. Let's see what
came next? Well the air brake detail on the car was lame to say the
least, so I got got a Cal Scale express reefer detail set and added
brake levers and the hand brake chain and rod (fortunately, most of
the brake rods on express reefers were either between the center
sills or concealed by the trucks). Also, the model comes completely
devoid of steam fittings and air and signal lines at the end
sills,whereas the prototype cars had to have all that stuff. The
necessary parts were in the Cal Scale set, but modifying the coupler
operating levers for clearance (I do have to have magnetic
uncoupling) and mounting the steam, air and signal lines so the
wouldn't interfere with coupler operation was tricky and required a
lot of time and some experimenting before I had everything in place
and the couplers operating properly. "Ready to run?" Give me, as we
say, a break. Ready to run around somebody's Chirstmas tree, maybe,
but not on a serious prototype-based layout.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Soo 176356

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

I don't disagree with that. But what there's likely to be much
disagreement about is what constitutes "slightly wrong."

Slightly wrong trucks? I can accept that if there are no "exactly
right" trucks available.

Wrong number and arrangement of side sheathing panels? Whoa!

Richard Hendrickson
Actually, the objection was the P2K rendition of the rectangular panel roof, since I had already suggested new styrene sides with Archer rivets.

It may be easier to just model the earlier 10'-1" IH cars using parts from two Red Caboose 40' double door cars, or one double door car and an extra roof and underframe. The RC kit should provide the correct ends (I assume these have square corner ends) doors and a better roof; the sides still need to be built up from styrene and Archer rivets. I'm not sure what it takes to splice 40' car roofs into fifty car roofs; three more panels, but the length doesn't work out exactly right. However, the adjustment would be in the flat end panels.

All theseare P-S built cars, so drawings should be available from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum. Lot numbers are:

Lot 5569, 8-37 (175000-175498, even)
Lot 5599. 12-39 (175500-175698, even)

The cars Rob was asking about were 175900-176498, even, built 2-42 as Lot 5689.

Dennis


Dennis


Re: Soo 176356

Clark Propst
 

It all depends on your tolerance level Richard. What errors you can live with. If I want a model of a particular car and none is available, I'll live with the wrong number of panels. Nobody's going to count them while the car is moving around on the layout anyway. You haven't visited : )

I also feel that some guys look at discrepancies as excuses for why they can't build models.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Slightly wrong trucks? I can accept that if there are no "exactly
right" trucks available.

Wrong number and arrangement of side sheathing panels? Whoa!

Richard Hendrickson





Re: Soo 176356

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, cepropst@q.com wrote:

I consider kitbashing a 'near miss' sport. I'll take a slightly
wrong car over no car anyday !
Clark Propst
I don't disagree with that. But what there's likely to be much
disagreement about is what constitutes "slightly wrong."

Slightly wrong trucks? I can accept that if there are no "exactly
right" trucks available.

Wrong number and arrangement of side sheathing panels? Whoa!

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Soo 176356

Clark Propst
 

I consider kitbashing a 'near miss' sport. I'll take a slightly wrong car over no car anyday !
Clark Propst


N&W HC/HC-1 Paint Help

jerrybrown_20
 

Hello To All,

I need help on the shade of gray for N&W covered hoppers, class HC and HC-1, during the late 40's.

Thanks for your replys,

Gerald Brown


Re: Rails by the River

Richard Townsend
 

I don't know how that happened, but that message was intended for Greg Martin. Sorry to everyone else.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: richtownsend@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Apr 25, 2011 11:19 am
Subject: [STMFC] Rails by the River





Greg,

Would you be interested in a clinic on early aluminum freight cars for this year's Rails by the River?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Soo 176356

Paul Lyons
 

Dennis Storzek wrote

while the P2K cars have six, but will end up with 5-1/4 with the new wider doors. It just doesn't work, although new styrene sides with Archer rivets could be a possibility.






Since we have agreed that the P2K roof is really not right, would you want to spend that much time for a finished model that is still not correct? I would not!
Paul Lyons


Re: Soo 176356

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Or am I missing key spotting features? I suppose a lot depends on the width
of the kit doors and the spacing of the side panels on the model. I'm
assuming they are basically the same.

Rob Kirkham
That's precisely the problem. The common eight foot door ends four feet each side of centerline. The 12'-6" door opening will end 2'-3" further from the center of the car, but that 2'-3" doesn't equal a full panel of side sheathing. The Soo cars had five more or less equal width panels to each side of the door, while the P2K cars have six, but will end up with 5-1/4 with the new wider doors. It just doesn't work, although new styrene sides with Archer rivets could be a possibility.

Dennis

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