Date   

Re: P&LE and PMcK&Y Boxcars 1910 to 1975

David Sieber
 

Larry, many thanks for this post reminding me that I'd wanted to order that triple issue of "The Little Giant" and providing a link to the order form. Your presentation at Naperville was outstanding; I'd taken down the ordering info, but misplaced it. Now I have my order in.
However, I see on the PLERRHS web site that the latest edition of TLG, a double issue on the Youngstown P&LE station, etc., also has "P&LE Boxcars, Additions and Corrections" to the Boxcar issue. Any chance of posting those addenda on the STMFC and other lists, or as appropriate to maintain Society copyright, as an "additional info" link from the PLERRHS website? That would be grestly appreciated by those of us who model other regions, but purchase your super boxcar issue to more accurately model P&LE boxcars in our foreign RR interchange fleets.
Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Does this mean (gasp), that Tony reads TKM!?!?
Of course. It's a superb production. I've been impressed with the quality of both content and production, and the breadth of material, from the beginning. It's a high standard for other societies to try and emulate.

For those with little humor...I am kidding. EVERYONE is a Pennsy fan.
Well, no, Elden, I can't count myself really a FAN of the Pennsy, but it's an endlessly interesting railroad, and certainly it remains true, as was said many years ago, anyone who's serious about freight cars IS a Pennsy modeler.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Does this mean (gasp), that Tony reads TKM!?!?

Oh, the humanity!

For those with little humor...I am kidding. EVERYONE is a Pennsy fan.


Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011



Tony Thompson asked:
"Is there a reason that the website shows both the Autumn 2010 and Spring
2011 issues as No. 75?"

Typo. Spring 2011 should be No. 76.

Ben Hom




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson asked:
"Is there a reason that the website shows both the Autumn 2010
and Spring 2011 issues as No. 75?"

Typo.  Spring 2011 should be No. 76.


Ben Hom


Re: The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
The Spring 2011 issue of The Keystone Modeler is online at
http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm
Is there a reason that the website shows both the Autumn 2010 and Spring 2011 issues as No. 75?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


HPAX

JP Barger
 

Hello again so soon on the same subject, HPAX (Hunter Packing). While the
email I wrote yesterday may have been a bit long for those people with
limited time (or patience) to absorb, there's more.

To begin, Megow, proprietor F. W. Megow, didn't get involved in the HO model
train car kit business until 1939.

Its first 20 kits, numbers Q1-Q20 of 1939, all refrigerator cars, were all
nominally around 40' in length, all cars of the late 1930's. The kits
featured a 2 piece solid internal block, but with 2 different woods! The
bottom half was pine; the top half balsa. The idea was apparently to lower
the center of gravity of the cars. But the design didn't work well in
practice. First, the wood wasn't cut with enough precision to allow the two
pieces to be glued together to produce smooth and square surfaces. Moreover
not many modellers had enough experience to deal with this problem, nor
perhaps high enough standards to want completely plane sides. Also, there
were few modellers who could glue the two pieces perfectly square with each
other. All we had for glue was powdered casein: it wasn't up to the job. It
was literally impossible to get a desirable result, anyhow, because almost
all of the top and bottom blocks were sawed to slightly different widths.
But suppose that some smart modeller of 1939 knew enough to sand the sides
of the glued pair of blocks carefully to create 2 plane sides parallel to
each other. By the way, there weren't any sandpapers in 1939 of optimum grit
to do this task. I'm leading you down the garden path, because even if you
made a perfect rectangular solid on day one, it wouldn't stay that way over
time. Mother Nature always gets in the act. In this case, with different
coefficients of expansion especially in the direction 90 degrees to the wood
grain, one piece of wood would get narrower in the winter and wider in the
summer, relative to the other. Two separate coefficients are involved: both
temperature and moisture (humidity)are in play. Thus, without exception, all
of the Megow refrigerator kits put together according to the Megow
instructions, even to this day, have a noticeable ridge or groove running
horizontally in the middle of the card sides, about where you would see the
upset steel ridge, which appears on the sides of steel cars of the 40's &
50's.Think the Walthers 40' refrigerator car model.A horizontal ridge in the
middle of a wood-sided car?

When I first met the Megow refrigerator car models, I was just 12 years old.
The kit boxes were black, end opening, flimsy; the kits cost just 25 cents
apiece. The black ink on the boxes was reverse printed to allow the
unprinted card surface to represent the box lettering. It's tough today to
find these kits in decent original boxes. Once in a great while, you see one
going by. If your principal interest is accurate modelling, these kits are
way too crude for you. But if you have any interest in collecting early HO
cars, these are part of the Adam and Eve beginnings of HO freight car model
development.

To answer more questions asked on this site, Jeff Sankus wanted to know
about the color of the lettering on the Hunter cars. If Megow's models are
right, the prototype sides had black letters and numbers exclusively on
orange sides. That's the color of all the side lettering on all 20 different
Megow refrigerator cars, except for the UP shield on the PFE model. The ends
of the Megow models were crude, not prepainted, and therefore had no car
numbers. Not much help there. I don't have any photographs showing end views
of the Hunter cars. I would assume that since the ends were painted
aluminum, at least in the thirties, they had 3 inch black reporting marks
with periods after the upper case letters. These cars lasted into the
fifties, so there's good reason to suspect that in a later repainted version
they changed to a freight car red roof and ends, with the end lettering
switching to white. Perhaps the prototype cars went all the way to where
Mather took out the periods, as PFE and others did. The 1942? photos don't
contradict the idea of orange sides with black side lettering.

I suspect I may not be correct about the Mather/PPCX cars later becoming the
42' HPAX cars , because today I looked in my Jul '41 ORER to find the same
cars still leased to PPCX. Who can sort out the HPAX 42' cars? I find them
very early and also in the fifties. Different cars, probably. Were they all
Mather leased, and did the steel framing show on the bottom of the sides on
these cars also?

Another question Jeff Sankus asked: I, like Richard H. don't know of any
decals for Hunter cars. One of our more enterprising decal makers might be
interested in filling this void. I'd like at least half a dozen sets.

One more comment: I usually reread my memos to check them for typos and to
try to determine if the readers have a decent chance to understand some of
the arcane things I write. In this case, the checking came one morning later
because I had to give up last night in favor of eating dinner. When I got
out the Bob's Photo Hunter 1056 & 1065 prints again this morning, I was
startled to see that the two cars have different ends. But the real surprise
was to see that on 1065, the ends had been modernized with improved
dreadnought steel ends, two piece 3/3 jobs. Thus the 1942 picture date I
have been mentioning is a fiction. Clearly, the picture has to be later than
1945. The amount of weathering on the 1065 suggests 1946, or later. Further,
the ends seem to be a light color, suggesting that the original aluminum
color was again used after the rebuilding of the ends. I can't accurately
determine the rework date, but I might be seeing a 5 in it.

The 1056 car seems to have retained its wood ends. Shadows notwithstanding,
the ends seem also to have been repainted to freight car red, or perhaps
black. It seems to have a 1942 rework date.

I have a question: Where was Hunter Packing, and also Peyton Packing?

Please keep us up to date if you know of, or can supply, decals for Hunter,
or have end photos of these attractive cars.

Thanks, guys,

JP


Re: Kitbashing

Clark Propst
 

Tim, the RI flat is a different car.

Here's the long version of the story as told by me.

A few years back Frank asked for info on an M&StL flat car. He'd found that several railroads owned similar cars and wanted to make masters. (he wanted one of the roads flats?) At the following Naperville meet Frank told me he made the masters and sent them to Martin along with three of four others. UPS had lost the package!

Time passes - I get an email from Frank stating he'd used two RC flat cars to make the car he was after and would not be re-making the masters. SO, I followed his lead and make my version: See photo section.

Before I knew he wasn't going to re-make the masters I bought the Rock Island flat which was two shorter cars spliced together by the railroad for real. I was trilled to open the instructions and see the car I was waiting for. Turned out Martin pulled his unsual stunt and included instructions for a different model (which will never be made).

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


If I recall correctly, Frank's model was a Rock Island flat with
a big splice plate in the center.

Tim O'Connor


The Keystone Modeler, Spring 2011

Benjamin Hom
 

The Spring 2011 issue of The Keystone Modeler is online at
http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm

Articles include:

Walthers HO-Scale PRR PS21b Sleeper by Andy Miller
Prr GL and GLca Hoppers, Part II by Jim Hunter
Walthers/Proto 2000 PRR EP-3 – The EMD E7 by Jack Consoli
 
Enjoy!
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Decal Printing

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks, I'll look into that.
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM, North Model Railroad Supplies <
nmrs@...> wrote:



Hi Fenton,

Join the Alpsdecal List, another Yahoo group and ask the members if anyone
can print them for you.

The last new Alps printers were manufactured in Japan last year, so
consumables will be available for another 7 years?, but the printers may
not
last that long <g>.

They can be a bit fragile.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alpsdecal/?yguid=137520207

cheers

Dave North


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Decal Printing

North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

Hi Fenton,

Join the Alpsdecal List, another Yahoo group and ask the members if anyone
can print them for you.

The last new Alps printers were manufactured in Japan last year, so
consumables will be available for another 7 years?, but the printers may not
last that long <g>.

They can be a bit fragile.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alpsdecal/?yguid=137520207

cheers

Dave North


Re: Decal Printing

Aidrian & Susie Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

I have used Ron at Rail Graphics, he does great work and will go back to him but was wondering if I could find an ALPS printer. Are they easily available to print a sheet or two for me? I have never heard of such a printer so I don't know where to start. Any help is appreciated.
ALPS no longer make the type of printer needed for this work; they are available second hand, but without expert advice you are very very likely to get stuck with a lemon, as they are somewhat fragile, there is a high demand for used printers, and any number of unscrupulous sellers

More info, including links to those who may do custom work can be found here <http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models/decals.htm>

Aidrian


P&LE and PMcK&Y Boxcars 1910 to 1975

Larry Kline
 

Ben Hom wrote (on the Steam Era Freight Car Yahoo Group)
This subject definitely deserves closer analysis, and previously presented
overviews of NYCS car fleets at PM meets (English, Hinman, Kline) certainly
deserve greater distribution.

Volume 4,, Numbers 2-4 of the P&LE Historical Society Magazine "The Little Giant" is a 76 page issue on the "Boxcars of the P&LE and PMcK&Y - 1910 to 1975." Its available from the P&LE Society for $20.85 + $4.00 shipping and handling. See:
http://www.plerrhs.org/tlg/archives.html
You can download an order form using this link:
http://www.plerrhs.org/store/BookShelf.pdf

Larry Kline
VP and Editor P&LERRHS


Re: Union RR gondola from F&C

Pieter Roos
 

The street-running railroad in Boston was "Union Freight Railroad", not just "Union Railroad". UFRR had no interchange equipment, the 1953 ORER entry says "Freight Cars Owned: None". they did own 6 diesels (GE 44 tonners). A bit later even those were gone, and they used New Haven switchers.

The same ORER lists Union Railroad with reporting mark URR, which is the USS company, and the "Union Railway Company of Memphis, Tenn.", which also owned no freight cars.

Pieter Roos
Connecticut.

--- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Bill,
If I recall correctly, the Union Railroad was "The Railroad That Ran
At Night" in Boston.
Chuck Hladik


Wabash 8141

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I got some good help on this car from Chet French and Chuck Hostetler, but I
can't be sure from their photos whether the running board is an Apex product
or something else. Does anyone here have that data?

Thanks

SGL





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Decal Printing

O Fenton Wells
 

Can anyone help me getting artwork printed into decals? I have some art work that I want to have decals made from. The fellow who gave me the art work used to print on an ALPS printer but he can't use it anymore. I have used Ron at Rail Graphics, he does great work and will go back to him but was wondering if I could find an ALPS printer. Are they easily available to print a sheet or two for me? I have never heard of such a printer so I don't know where to start. Any help is appreciated.
Fenton Wells


Re: Union RR gondola from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Elden, Wasn't Aliquippa Southern J&L's railroad.

CJ

--- On Tue, 4/26/11, Gatwood, Elden SAW <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
, Aliquippa Southern, and McKeesport

Connecting RR, all USS-owned at time of purchase. They were seen all over

the place, often carrying loads of structural steel or particularly for the

McK Con, loads of tube.


Re: Kitbashing

Tim O'Connor
 

If I recall correctly, Frank's model was a Rock Island flat with
a big splice plate in the center.

Tim O'Connor

I agree, unless it's a 'must have' car there are enough good models to build and I already have too many too. I did just make a 50' flat car out of 2 Red Caboose 42' cars. The side frame angles aren't right, but what you gonna do? Frank Hodina won't re-make the lost masters, he did the same kitbash.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


HPAX

JP Barger
 

Our fellow member, J. R. Hunter, asked on 21 Apr 11, 8:58PM, what colors
were used on HPAX reefers. The quick answer is 'I'm not sure'. But there are
some data out there, furnishing some clues.On the MEGOW 'Refrigerator Car'
instruction sheet included with reefer kit numbers Q1-Q20, it states in the
text at the bottom of the sheet (start six lines from the bottom of the
second column) that, in contrast to the other 19 cars in the model series,
the Hunter Packing car (Q4) had the entire roof and ends painted with an
aluminum paint. Moreover, all of the fittings thereupon were also painted
aluminum. Mouldings on the Hunter car were painted black. I assume that
mouldings in this case means fascia strips or boards on the sides and ends.
(On this series of models, the fascia 'boards' were cardstock)

The Q4 MEGOW model was given the car number 1011 which is contained in the
HPAX/Mather number series 900-1049 in the October 1938 ORER , page 888, an
issue I have. Car outside length is given as 37'-3". However, the MEGOW kit
is set as a 40-42' car. One could perhaps shorten the kit parts to make it a
37'-3" model. The lettering spacing on the sides is the key.

There are two Bob's Photos 8x10 B/W prints in my photo collection of Hunter
H.P.A.X. cars, numbers 1056 & 1065. These photos clearly depict two rebuilt
Mather stock cars with the steel framing members showing below the wooden
refrigerator siding. I believe the length of the cars in the photos to be
37'-3", matching the length given in the '38 ORER, for the same car numbers.
However, as indicated above, the '38 ORER does not include 1056 and 1065
under the cars leased to Hunter at that date. These cars could be the
37'-3" ones shown with PPCX reporting marks, Mather series 1050-1065, leased
at Oct '38 to Peyton Packing Co. and by the 1942 photo date, possibly leased
to Hunter.

In Richard Hendrickson's comments on the posed Hunter question, he
mentioned, in addition to the 37'-3" cars, cars of 42' length also leased by
Mather to Hunter. In the Oct 1938 ORER, I don't find 42' cars under HPAX
reporting marks, but leases come to temporal ends, releasing cars to be
re-leased. In the '38 ORER, there are 9 other Mather car number series of
42'( 41'-3", 41'-8" and 41'-9")cars leased as of that date to 7 lessees
other than Hunter. One or more of these series could have been leased to
Hunter before or after the Fall of 1938. A complete set of ORER's might help
determine which series corresponds. Or Richard may already know.

The 1942 photos of 1056 & 1065 don't show black fascias, but rather a
lighter color which might match the orange car side or the aluminum roof.
Remember also that 1011, the MEGOW Q4 kit car number, comes from the '38
ORER number series, but 1056 & 1065 are from a different leased group in
1942, which could have been repainted with simplified colors when re-leased
to Hunter.

The person who gathered and organized color data for the MEGOW Q1-20 reefer
series could possibly have made a mistake or mistakes in assessing color or
recording it. But this best clue I have for the 1939 colors of the
Hunter/Mather cars suggests aluminum roofs and ends. Perhaps someone else on
this list has supporting or conflicting data. I'd also like to know before
building some Hunter models.

And, Richard, what can you tell us about the 42' Hunter cars?

I'm also checking with Bill McClung on whether Red Caboose actually made a
Hunter version of its Mather reefer. He's looking in his records.


Best to all,
JP


Re: Union RR gondola from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

naptownprr
 

Guys,

Steve Funaro made a small run of flat kits and then made a presentation about the URR gons at the RPM East meet in Greensburg in March. He is planning to produce a one-piece body kit which will become available in the near future.

Jim

Quoting "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...>:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

I was not aware it was officially "out", but to add to what Rich said, these
were United States Steel-purchased, and held by several roads including Union
RR, Bessemer & Lake Erie, Lake Terminal, Aliquippa Southern, and McKeesport
Connecting RR, all USS-owned at time of purchase. They were seen all over
the place, often carrying loads of structural steel or particularly for the
McK Con, loads of tube.

The cars were researched by a group of folks you likely know.

I have not seen the decals, but the artwork was really good.

This is a car for which everyone who would have received the above could have
likely hosted at some time or another.

They were seen past the time of this list.

Be aware that USS shifted these cars around a lot, which bears a look into
the ORER to see what roads were running them in your time frame.

Photos can be found on numerous websites, including Fallen Flags.

I expect F&C will issue them for all roads that owned them.

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:43 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Union RR gondola from F&C



I have not noticed any comments about the new model on the F&C website. It is
a Union RR gondola. It looks to be a nominal 50-foot car.

Was the URR one of the steel company owned RR's?

Bill Welch





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Re: Union RR gondola from F&C

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Bill,
 
Chuck is right about Boston having a Union RR that ran at night.
It was part of the New Haven, and worked city streets making
set out & pick ups. Ergo, at night.
The car in question is the Union RR in the Pittsburgh area that
served the steel mill at Edgar Thompson Works.
The Union in Boston MA had no cars, just power and caboose
on the roster.  Hope that clears it up for you.
 
Fred Freitas

From: "RUTLANDRS@..." <RUTLANDRS@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Union RR gondola from F&C


 
Bill,
If I recall correctly, the Union Railroad was "The Railroad That Ran
At Night" in Boston.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 4/26/2011 10:43:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
fgexbill@... writes:

I have not noticed any comments about the new model on the F&C website. It
is a Union RR gondola. It looks to be a nominal 50-foot car.

Was the URR one of the steel company owned RR's?

Bill Welch

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

94061 - 94080 of 193447