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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Chuck Soule
Tacoma's Hooker facility was actually built in the 1920s, before the Bonneville Power Administration era, because Tacoma had a very aggressive public utility dept. that built several dams for power supply, so they had cheap electricity (same reason Hooker's NY plant was next to Niagara Falls). It was still in service in the very late 1990s when I toured it, but under a new owner. The time slider on Google Earth shows that it was demolished about 2009.
Regarding the views across Hylebos Waterway (tidal, not a river), there were a good number of houses on pilings or bulkheaded fill between Marine View Drive and the waterway. There are still a few, but it is more commercialized now. There have long been marinas and log rafts. In the early 1950s, my Dad had a sailboat, and in the winter he would have it hauled out of the water at one of those marinas, leaving it on land all winter, and cleaning/painting the hull while it was out. I was so young I barely remember it. Regarding the picture of the panorama view, it was not taken at Pt. Defiance, but rather at the northern end marine view drive. The road north of Hooker winds up the steep hillside, and there are a couple of pullout viewpoints (as well as the excellent Cliff House restaurant). if you go to Google Earth (lat 47.286 lon -122.4042) you can still see the semicircular tracks. Timeslide back to a good photo in 2002, and you can still see structures. Chlorine was loaded into tank cars next to the small buildings at the NW corner, in the bend of the Northwesterly "snap track" curve. Caustic Soda was loaded at the easterly corner of the property. If I remember correctly from the tour I took 20 years ago, Occidental made chlorinate chemicals at or next to the SE side of the plant. To this day, there is a significant environmental cleanup issue, which I believe is more significant at the OxyChem side of the plant than associated with the original chlorine manufacturing area. The overall residual environmental issues are a major part of why the entire site is currently vacant. The model at the PSMRE layout at Washington State History Museum is tucked way in the back from the viewing public in a corner. There wasn't a lot of room for Bill to build the model, so he basically did the main square 2-story brick building of the original plant and the one-story building where the tank cars were loaded. Another club member painted the backdrop behind it to show the large stockpile of salt. There was a lot of selective compression needed in that part of the layout, so we concentrated on creating the general tideflats atmosphere. Chuck Soule
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Re: BAR 7000-series reefers
Andy Laurent
Thank you, Tim! Black sills and ends...silver roof.
My thanks, Andy Laurent Wisconsin
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Re: Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068
Bob Webber
It's not a freight car per se - it shows as a passenger car
on the AAR classifications. Having said that, my understanding is
that any head end car - combine, baggage, express, mail, milk, etc. were
fair game (here).
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At 01:11 PM 4/10/2020, Nelson Moyer wrote:
You could post it to the plasticfreightcarbuilders group. They’ve been pretty quiet lately, except for the slap on the wrist I got for posting a coach-baggage combine moments ago. It is a NKP Car Co. hybrid brass-resin-plastic (mostly plastic) kit with brass sides, so I went with plastic because there was more plastic than resin. It raised the question, is a combine a freight car since it carries the markers on mixed FREIGHT trains and carries baggage and express packages? I’m curious what the sages in this group will opine.
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Re: Poorly Secured Load?
mopacfirst
The photos show a vertical vessel, and the second photo (in the shadows) shows the skirt end with blocking against it. The other photo, showing the top end, appears to have blocking also. Those would probably keep the vessel from sliding back and forth, while the two saddles carry the weight. I'll bet somewhere there's a 'do not hump' placard.
Ron Merrick
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Re: Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068
Nelson Moyer
You could post it to the plasticfreightcarbuilders group. They’ve been pretty quiet lately, except for the slap on the wrist I got for posting a coach-baggage combine moments ago. It is a NKP Car Co. hybrid brass-resin-plastic (mostly plastic) kit with brass sides, so I went with plastic because there was more plastic than resin. It raised the question, is a combine a freight car since it carries the markers on mixed FREIGHT trains and carries baggage and express packages? I’m curious what the sages in this group will opine.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:59 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068
In an effort to add more color to my fleet I have revised a P2K flat car from black to the UP. I have liked this car since I saw Bob Smaus version in MR a few years ago. Then Ted's vol IV of Prototype Railroad Modeling highlighted these cars so off I went. I modeled this as a 1951 repaint so no white lettering and used Ted's excellent decals. This is my first use of the new Kadee flat car brake wheel and stem. It is excellent and I highly recommend it. I didn't put this on the resin builder site as it is a plastic car. Not sure where it goes, so here I am
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Poorly Secured Load?
Poorly Secured Load? Two 1952 photos of the same load from the Tacoma Public Library Digital Collections: http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/33748/rec/109 http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061coll21/id/34113/rec/103 I was a bit surprised to see that this large storage tank load was only secured by two steel bands/rods. Even with the bottom blocking I would think a third band/rod would be needed to provide extra security should one of the other two fail. Opinions? Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068
In an effort to add more color to my fleet I have revised a P2K flat car from black to the UP. I have liked this car since I saw Bob Smaus version in MR a few years ago. Then Ted's vol IV of Prototype Railroad Modeling highlighted these cars so off I went. I modeled this as a 1951 repaint so no white lettering and used Ted's excellent decals.
This is my first use of the new Kadee flat car brake wheel and stem. It is excellent and I highly recommend it.
I didn't put this on the resin builder site as it is a plastic car. Not sure where it goes, so here I am
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Re: FW: [RealSTMFC] BAR 7000-series reefers
Joseph
So what kit models one of these? I am sure it has been mentioned before, but am in the midst of distancing grocery shopping for Easter dinner.... TIA, Joe Binish
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:48 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Tom Madden
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:39 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Actually, no. It was June 1960, not 1961. I've corrected the post. Tom M.
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Re: FW: [RealSTMFC] BAR 7000-series reefers
Schuyler That could be mistaken - Someone must have told me the cars were built by Mount Vernon Car (MVC) but Pacific Car & Foundry is mentioned in the article, so the MVC should be stricken. Also the 1952 date may be wrong - blowing up the image the number could be 53, not 52. Tim
On 4/10/2020 1:08 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Inverse ends
Richard Townsend
It looks like the short answer is “no.” There was an inverse dreadnaught end in the Sunshine mini kit for ATSF furniture cars, and I have stolen one from one of my kits for use elsewhere.
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On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks Tom, very much. These shots certainly clarify what is going on around the Hooker site, and the panorama very clearly shows what those piers or booms or whatever they’d be called are for. That’s a lot of floating wood in the river there. Probably those logs are destined to be turned into lumber loads on freight cars, though the photos date from some future time for Steam Freight Cars (whew!).
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 1:22 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:40 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
It's not a river - it's a tidal basin. The first two images are file photos from an April 2017 article in the Tacoma News Tribune regarding cleanup of the Hooker site. The third photo is a panorama made from three shots I took in June 1961 the day I was discharged from the USAF. I'm not sure where I was standing (Point Defiance??) but the following shots were of a stuffed and mounted NP 4-6-0. Can't tell you how the panorama relates geographically to the Hooker site, but it does show the heavy industrialization of the Tacoma waterfront as well as numerous log rafts.
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
This huge industrial area of Tacoma is the Tidal Flats - directly connected to Puget Sound.
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There is fresh water too, but these waters flow back & forth with the tide. This is now the location of a huge international container port.
On 4/10/2020 12:41 PM, Patrick Wade wrote:
Regarding the opposite river bank. I think that those are winter moorings for power boats. They drive in and are individually lifted out of the water for winter storage in their own garage. I am guessing that to leave them in the water might result in ice damage to the hulls. --
*Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:40 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
It's not a river - it's a tidal basin. The first two images are file photos from an April 2017 article in the Tacoma News Tribune regarding cleanup of the Hooker site. The third photo is a panorama made from three shots I took in June 1960 the day I was discharged from the USAF. I'm not sure where I was standing (Point Defiance??) but the following shots were of a stuffed and mounted NP 4-6-0. Can't tell you how the panorama relates geographically to the Hooker site, but it does show the heavy industrialization of the Tacoma waterfront as well as numerous log rafts. Tom Madden
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Patrick Wade
Regarding the opposite river bank. I think that those are winter moorings for power boats. They drive in and are individually lifted out of the water for winter storage in their own garage. I am guessing that to leave them in the water might result in ice damage to the hulls.
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Pat Wade Santa Barbara, CA
On Apr 10, 2020, at 8:57 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Schuyler Larrabee
Not the recreational boat houses. I meant the arrangement directly across the river, with the rectangular part in the middle, and long dividers parallel to the flow of the river. Are those to retain log rafts?
BTW, which way is the river flowing, L to R, or R to L?
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 12:34 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Not sure which arrangement you're talking about, but there are boat houses (for recreational boats) to the left and to the right are places where log rafts are kept before the logs go to saw mills. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message----- Well, my first thought about this spectacular photo was "Wow, a snap-track layout!" Well, not quite, the radii are larger than even 22", but I also would like to know what is that arrangement on the opposite side of the river all about?
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Re: BAR 7000-series reefers
BAR 7123
On 4/9/2020 11:40 PM, Andy Laurent via groups.io wrote:
Gents, --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Hooker Chemical, Tacoma
Richard Townsend
Not sure which arrangement you're talking about, but there are boat houses (for recreational boats) to the left and to the right are places where log rafts are kept before the logs go to saw mills. Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>; bbfcl <bbfcl@groups.io>; mfcl <mfcl@groups.io>; RealSTMFC <RealSTMFC@groups.io> Sent: Fri, Apr 10, 2020 8:57 am Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hooker Chemical, Tacoma Well, my first thought about this spectacular photo was "Wow, a snap-track layout!" Well, not quite, the radii are larger than even 22", but I also would like to know what is that arrangement on the opposite side of the river all about?
Schuyler -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 10:27 AM To: bbfcl@groups.io; mfcl@groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hooker Chemical, Tacoma Jeff Helm pointed out this SPECTACULAR industrial photo from the 1960's but the Hooker Chemical plant here was built in the 1940's and lasted through the 1990's (at least that long) so I thought it is worth sharing around. If my stupid mail program truncates the long URL you'll have to paste it back together to see it in your browser. :-\:-) cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p17061coll21&CISOPTR=32743&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=2848&DMHEIGHT=2210 =================================================== On 4/8/2020 3:05 PM, Jeff Helm wrote: > Found the online photos, at the Tacoma Public Library digital collections. Some interesting links: > First two are the caustic tank car. > > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/32346/rec/81 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/32704/rec/92 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/5536/rec/22 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/16060/rec/44 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/32743/rec/75 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/31462/rec/50 > http://cdm17061.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17061col > l21/id/13399/rec/49 > -- *Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
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Re: Meat reefers
I have extras if anyone is looking for the kits. I bought too many I guess out of sheer excitement at the time. They are excellent models. :-)
On 4/9/2020 8:42 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
I don’t think the Red Caboose Mather reefers have been produced for almost a decade. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Meat reefers
Nelson Moyer
Yes, as someone said, the Sioux Falls plant held the record for 125 cars in one day, or something like that. But the thread started with my question about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, IA. We don't have a definitive answer for that plant, though from the total number of hog, sheep, and cattle kills it very well might fill a train. The operative word is 'might', because the only wheel report of a train that's surfaced included some stock cars and a produce reefer to fill out the train. Moot point, because few of us are going to model a 50 car meat train, though I know a guy who ran an SFRD produce train with something like 60 cars on the La Mesa layout. Only a retired lawyer can afford all those reefers and the ATSF ABBA units that pulled them.
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Nelson Moyer
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 10:39 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers There were DEFINITELY slaughterhouses that could produce 50 loads per day! A full load of beef sides or pork bellies probably had barely 20 tons of meat, if that. I once read a PRR publication that listed average tons per load and was surprised how many cargos did not approach the full weight capacity of freight cars. Scan from the Illinois Central 1955 annual report. On 4/9/2020 3:24 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote: Hi Nelson, -- *Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
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