The type of anchors you have are the kind used for sailing vessels and early steam
powered ships and would be unlikely on anything diesel. And very unlikely on any
"large, modern -ship- such as a naval vessel. Also relatively unlikely on smaller
craft such as fishing vessels (except for sailing). Those are what I'd call "medium
duty" rather than heavy duty. The kind others pointed to with the pivoting stock are
available in sizes from about 3 pounds and on up to modern naval vessels. The
type you have - with a fixed stock - I've never seen in use or for sale ... mostly I've
seen them with sailing ships at museums. But they would have been in common
use in the 20's.
I think you may have 'missed the point'. In 1929 a lot of shipping was still done by
sail. So anchors of the type you have were still in use and still being made and
shipped even though it was an "old" design at the time of your RR.
Having said the above - I've never seen a picture of anchors of your style on/in a rail car
of any type (flat or box car). I'm not saying they weren't shipped by rail - I'm just saying I
don't remember ever seeing a picture of one/several on a rail car.
If you do decide to use them they would go to a ship chandler or naval facility near the
waterfront - probably even to one that has a dock. They would be shipped from a 'mill'
or other such business capable of casting large heavy stuff.
Anchors are heavy and need some serious weight handling equpment to move them
around. Once on the ship they are hauled up and down by use of a winch with serious
lifting power. Anchors -do- get lost (left on the sea floor) from time to time so ships
would, infrequently, need to replace them. Changing to a different style of anchor for
an existing ship would not be likely - the movable stock style normally are stowed in
the anchor chain/hawser hole and the fixed stock style are 'hung near that same
hole' ... quite different methods.
- Jim
Maybe early Mantua kits?
Dave Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 9:36 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] model freight car origiin
List members, I have two ancient flat cars, both the same, with a wood body, cast (Zamac?) underframe, and a steel sheet body wrapped around the wood. The plastic AB brake parts look like what Varney later supplied, so I surmise that these were early Varney products. But one source suggested to me that Athearn also once had a similar flat car.
Photo of underbody below. The stake pockets are pressed out from the side sill, and are rounded, not square at all. My two cars are both black, B&O and B&LE. Does anyone know the origin of these cars?
Tony
Tony:
After seeing Ben’s response with the instruction I agree. It’s a Varney.
Paul C. Koehler
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] model freight car origiin
I had one just like that years ago, I think yours is one of the early Athearns.
No, the kit instructions for the two companies are distinctly different, and it's a Varney. I admit I hadn't thought of searching on the web for old kit instructions.
I had one just like that years ago, I think yours is one of the early Athearns.
Tony:
I had one just like that years ago, I think yours is one of the early Athearns.
Paul C. Koehler
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 6:36 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] model freight car origiin
List members, I have two ancient flat cars, both the same, with a wood body, cast (Zamac?) underframe, and a steel sheet body wrapped around the wood. The plastic AB brake parts look like what Varney later supplied, so I surmise that these were early Varney products. But one source suggested to me that Athearn also once had a similar flat car.
Photo of underbody below. The stake pockets are pressed out from the side sill, and are rounded, not square at all. My two cars are both black, B&O and B&LE. Does anyone know the origin of these cars?
Tony
I believe the pictured car is IC 79000 — from IC series 79000-79031.
The following may be more information about these cars than you want or need: In the April 1945 IC List of Freight Car Equipment (an internal IC publication that included much other information) it shows 14 cars in the 79000-79031 number series. The covered hoppers are shown as having a capacity of 50 tons; an interior length of 22’-0”; and an inside width of 9’-5-1/2”.
I believe the 79000 series 50-ton covered hoppers were converted from IC USRA steel 50 ton, twin open hoppers.
The 1945 list shows the USRA 50-ton twin open hoppers in number series 65000-65958; there were 957 cars in that number series as of April 1945. The inside length of those cars is shown as 30’-6”; the inside width is shown as 9-5-1/2”. The difference in interior length between the open hoppers and the covered hoppers is, I believe, because new steeper slope sheets were riveted inside the converted covered hoppers to permit them to be self-clearing with cement lading — which requires a steeper angle in a self-clearing car than coal or gravel.
The IC USRA steel twin open hoppers were originally in the 210000-210999 number series. The 1932 OER showed 982 cars in that number series. The April 1938 OER showEd 979 members in the number series.
The July 1940 OER is the first one that I have that shows the rebuilt covered hoppers. It shows 14 50-ton covered hoppers in the 79000-79099 number series. It also shows 960 USRA 50-ton twin hoppers divided between the 210000-210999 and 65000-65959 series (a renumbering of the USRA twin hoppers was apparently in-process).
The 1943 OER showed 958 USRA 50 ton twin hoppers in number series 65000-65959 and 14 50-ton steel covered hoppers in number series 79000-79031.
The April 1946 showEd 954 USRA twin hoppers and 14 twin covered hoppers.
The October 1949 OER showed just 187 USRA twin hoppers in the 65000 number series and just 7 twin covered hoppers in the 79000 number series.
The January 1950 OER shows no USRA twin hoppers but still shows 7 50-ton covered hoppers in the 79000 number series.
The January 1952 IC equipment list shows that none of the 79000 series 50-ton twin covered hoppers remained, but did show 70-ton covered hoppers in several 79000 number series.
I have long been intrigued by the IC 50-ton twin covered hoppers. The wreck photo is the first photograph I have seen of one of these cars. If anyone has a side view of an IC 50-ton 79000 series car I would be most interested in seeing it. Based on my research, there may never have been more than 14 of the converted 50-ton covered hoppers in the 79000 series.
Any additional information on these cars would be welcome.
Tom Sinks
On Aug 21, 2020, at 5:43 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:400-419 3000 cu ft, 38' (No data)500-514 1892 cu ft, 29' 3" (AC&F 5-42)515-539 1892 cu ft, 29' 3" (AC&F 6-47)540-569 2003 cu ft, 29' 3" (Not found in any articles I have; maybe PS-2 clone?)The Vesuvius car has no visible number, but is an AC&F car, or a clone.
Balclutha's last commercial voyage was in 1941, with the usual anchors, as the naval style still wouldn't cat up correctly.
Hi Nolan, Ed, Rob, and List members,
Thanks Nolan for the info on the Balclutha. Having lived in San Francisco for 32 years, I have visited the Balclutha many times, it was always a great pleasure to do so.
And thanks everyone, seems like the overall opinion is that these anchors model a type that would pre-date my chosen 1929 modeling era.
[prototype for everything, yaddida yaddida ...]
----- Original Message -----Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AMSubject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:
[...]
> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking. The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.
[alert: era-dependencies at work]
There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]
[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.
[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>
----- Original Message -----Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AMSubject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:
[...]
> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking. The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.
[alert: era-dependencies at work]
There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]
[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.
[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>
----- Original Message -----Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AMSubject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:
[...]
> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking. The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.
[alert: era-dependencies at work]
There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]
[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.
[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>
Have a brand new shippers guide Alton/ B&O RR's.
The Baltimore and Ohio and Alton Railroads covered much of the North East and Midwest, USA. The B&O reached into New York State on the north and down into Virginia, W V, and Kentucky on the south, out to St Louis and Chicago on the west, and to the eastern seaboard on the East. the Alton allowed the B&O to extend to Kansas City, Mo. on the west and blanket Illinois with lines.
This newly printed shippers guide combines both the Alton and B&O railroad in one book. The book is dated 1939 and has 237 total pages. The Alton section of the book is separate and has 84 pages. Industries are listed by commodity produced or consumed, then by state and town in order for that commodity. the book also lists livestock pens, track scales, icing stations, crane facilities and coal and coke operators. the book has a comb binding to open flat for easy use for historical research or making prototype waybills. this new book is $39.95 plus shipping.
The cover is on my website at http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Books/shippers.html
This guide joins other recent guides from the IC, CNW and NP railroads
Please contact me off list.
Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120
847=697-5353
From: mel perry
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:47:02 PDT
