Date   

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 02:10 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
The doors are accurate. The "Rib Side" kits seem mixed regarding the grabs. I have only built the 40-ft DD and removed the mold-on grabs easily. I have the 50-ft w/6-ft door to build and the grabs are not molded-on. The brakes wheels are beautiful and correct I think. I replaced the molded on Sill Steps and scratch built new ladders for the DD version. The representation of the side ribs, the unique MILW roof and dreadnaught ends are well done. With some love these can be built into very nice models. 
Having inspected all the tooling, I find that only the first two releases, the 40' "long rib" single and double door cars, had molded on grabs. George then switched to supplying wire grabs, which, of course, the modeler had to paint himself.

The Rib Side Cars line was certainly a labor of love for George Schmidt, he had excellent tooling built, unfortunately, I doubt he ever got his money back with it. It has some interesting quirks, almost like as bills were piling up he'd just throw up his hands and authorize some shortcut just to get the project done. Case in point; the detail work on the car sides is impressive, but the grab irons were totally devoid of any attachment detail. I added a representation of the Milwaukee's unique Z section attachment brackets when I did minor repairs to the single door car, and will do the same to the double door car before we release it. Likewise, there was no handbrake rod or bell crank, which I added to the parts group, and the brake wheel as tooled was impossible to mold, in fact, they had the gate welded shut, and were apparently supplying an after market part. I added a new Equipco brake wheel cavity, based on information supplied by the Milwaukee Road Historical society and our own Gene Green.

Hopefully I'll get time to work over the 40' double door car this summer, in time for release at Milwaukee Trainfest next November.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

rwitt_2000
 

I wanted to include Chris Barkan's stencil diagrams for hopper cars.

Bob Witt


FS- HO Freight Cars

Scott H. Haycock
 

I have a list of freight car models, Kit and RTR for sale. These models are from the era covered by this list, with a very few models a few years newer.

As I'm downsizing my ambitions due to age, I really need to sell these models. Any realistic offers will be considered.

Contact me at  OFF LIST at: shhaycockATcomcastDOTnet for a copy of this list.

Thanks,

Scott Haycock   


Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

rwitt_2000
 

Tim and Group,

To make the stenciling more specific, the B&O hopper in the photo has the Billboard "B&O" with a small ampersand which places it in the mid-1950s introduced in 1956 lasting to 1957. The next iteration eliminated the lines above and below the reporting marks and the initials and numbers were 9" high. This one was in effect from 1957 to 1962 when the C&O took control.

Bob Witt


Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Curt Fortenberry
 


RPC Volume 13 is the one you want.

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Bill Welch
 

The doors are accurate. The "Rib Side" kits seem mixed regarding the grabs. I have only built the 40-ft DD and removed the mold-on grabs easily. I have the 50-ft w/6-ft door to build and the grabs are not molded-on. The brakes wheels are beautiful and correct I think. I replaced the molded on Sill Steps and scratch built new ladders for the DD version. The representation of the side ribs, the unique MILW roof and dreadnaught ends are well done. With some love these can be built into very nice models. 

I suggest consulting the appropriate RP CYC that focused on the Rib Side designs as some of them had wood running boards while some were mixed with steel Longitudinal and wood Latitudinals.

Bill Welch


Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Peter Ness
 

Hi Tim,

I probably misread one of the earlier posts where I thought there was a comment that someone was not familiar with s.s. cars on the New Haven, and was trying to provide some background about this history of those cars.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

Peter,

Why do you think 1948 is relevant? The color photo of south Boston was taken in the late
1950's (a previous source I have says the date is August 1960).

The Rock Island box car was built in 1952, and it is weathered and has a lube stencil patch.
The B&O billboard letters were introduced in the early 1950's (after 1951, for sure). The MEC
box car green paint is from the 1950's and the Cotton Belt double door box car was rebuilt in
1954.

By 1959 the New Haven rostered ZERO wood sheathed box cars, according to the ORER.

Tim O'Connor






On 2/25/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Those are all in service cars my friends. Those are not the RIP tracks in South Boston Freight Terminal. Look over by the brick smokestack and sand tower to see two switchers – the S-1 is working and smoking, the HH660 probably idling. Now, since Boston was a terminal, there is no telling how long the foreign road cars lingered before returning home.

 

There are three NH box cars in the photo;

McGinnis scheme (black with large “NH”) behind the Superior reefer

Script herald (BCR, very faded lettering) coupled to the right of the Superior reefer

The storage car that is on the ground to the right of the script herald car and to the left of the RI box car.

Notice there is a phone pole directly behind the script herald boxcar described above.

 

The storage car is one of the NHs old boxes, possibly 70200 series (I have a photo of NH 70218) which were rebuilt in 1935 with steel underframes from earlier NH 170000-170999-series 30-ton box cars.

 

The 40’ steel boxcars arrived beginning 1942 but there were still over 120 wood box cars in service in Sept 1948.  Beginning post-war many of the wood cars were converted to non-revenue service, which is the fate of the car in this photo. A white “NH” is visible above the “W-series” work car number.  Some cars were grounded and used for storage which appears to be the fate of this car. The yellow visible on the side is a patch of paint only so a black lettered stencil could be applied. This could have been applied while the car was still on trucks or not.  Could have said anything from “sand service only” to “property of mechanical dept.”

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

Agreed it’s a patch, but I think it’s a painted patch, painting out something, like a “return to” notice.  It’s a bit too ragged to be a carpenter’s parch.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 


It looks like fresh unpainted wood i.e. "patches" to me, Schuyler. I do not recognize
the cars at all. They don't look like anything that I know of from the New Haven. I'm
curious if anyone can figure out what they are. But I agree the photo scan is so poor
that nothing can be inferred about the lettering.

Tim O'Connor



On 2/25/2020 12:32 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

I don’t think those are “repairs.”  And at that distance and the age of the cars, dimensions and weight information may be there, faded, but not visible.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

couple of ss boxcars, apparently in inhouse service as all dims and weight

remarks all removed, and appears that

both had repairs to the same spot.on

both.cars, just to the left of the door,

can't remember that being a weak

structural spot in the ss design?

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:17 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

A Donald Haskel photo taken in August 1960:

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/305071/

A good variety of cars and roads.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Ken Adams
 

At long last the two Accurail Ribbed Sided Milwaukee box cars I have had on order for what seemed like eons arrived at my Local Hobby Shop today and I eagerly procured them and rushed home to unbox and see what I had acquired.  These are "favorite" cars of mine although I know next to nothing about the prototype. At one time I think I once had an MDC version of this car from the 1970's or 80's but it is not in my current collection. According to what little I know Accurail acquired the Rib Side Cars original maker of this version. 

I started to de-sprue but decided I needed more expert opinion before I went much further.  This is the contents (not including the instruction sheet) of the Accurail box. 


I have cleaned up the running board/roof walk casting a bit removing flash and trimmed the large molding gate from the underside of the main car casting. The brake wheel appears to be a representation of an Equipco brake wheel.  Is this correct? The door is rather unusual. How long did the cars retain these doors. The car has a representation of a metal running board with a rectangular grid pattern. The grabs are molded in as are all the grabs on the side of the body.  The ends have a 5+5 rib pattern and are rounded enough to indicate a W post end frame. 

Note that the car side is lettered with New 7-40. That will have to be changed to a repack date as I model 1950-54. I assume this is the as-built lettering.  The other car kit I bought is lettered for the Route of the Hiawathas and has a New 3-40 date. The color is a maroonish boxcar red which was the Milwaukee Roads standard box car color. 

All in all it appears to be a fairly nice kit. Accurail has certainly reworked the molding somewhat and it it unfortunate they were unable to include separate grab irons. But the kit cost under $20 (and i is marked made in the USA) so there is not much room for complaint.

Comments, criticisms and references to the prototype are the reason I am posting before I start constructing and enhancing the kit (cast on grab irons must go.)

 


Re: NP Mystery Car

spsalso
 

The car is surely originally from the NP transfer car series:  101000-101049 and 101050-101084, made famous in our circles by Red Ball, as I recall.  Nominally 60' long, with two separate 5'-6" doors on each side.  I believe "transfer" would likely equate to LCL service, and not wood chip or hog fuel.

The car number in the picture is 2X2 (as in 232, 242, 252, etc.)(my vote is 262).  Those numbers were assigned to company service cars.  In particular, numbers from 1 to 295 appear to have been assigned to scrap service at the time, and up until NP was merged.  The cars in scrap service were certainly varied:  109 was a former tank car, and used "for hauling exhausted carbide from welding plant at Brainerd."  292 and 293 were  "composite" gons formerly used as "oxygen" cars, and still retain the 8 side doors from that service.  Their particular usage as scrap cars is not noted.  294 was converted from NP 14029, and called a "yard box", either before or after conversion (it's not clear).  295 was formerly cinder car 205754.

All of the above information is available at the NPRHA site, except that I got the original car numbers from ORER.

As can be seen from the photo modifications to 2X2 include 8-10 roof hatches, with covers, and 12 small side doors, with the doors sliding vertically.  The small side doors are reminiscent of the doors on the oxygen cars.  That would not explain the roof hatches, however.  Dual or multiple usage might.

I believe 2X2 was a company service scrap car.  I have no idea what the scrap was.  I am sure it was frequently loaded through the roof, as why else have the hatches?  And the car and the load were likely not much damaged by the roof loading.  The small side doors could also have been used for loading.  Note, by the way, that, in the photo, some of the roof hatches are open; and 4 out of 6 small side doors are open.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: NP Mystery Car

Douglas Harding
 

Dan true of the car in the original photo that started this thread. But not of the car in the photo with the coal piles, the car to which Dennis and I were referring.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 2:34 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car

 

The car clearly has TWO doors on the visible side, with door-tracks still in place. NP and several other roads (GN, PRR, etc.) had such ~55-60’ four-door boxcars. It has since had several smaller low doors added, as well as roof hatches. This is quite similar to other cars used for wood chip, slash, and block service.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========



On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:39 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

 

Notice there is no door on the car, essentially making it an extremely tall gon. That says sawdust or wood chip car when sitting in the Pacific northwest.

 

Doug  Harding

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:27 AM, np328 wrote:

  From the spur that the photographer was on in the prior photo. A D&RGW gon is being unloaded at A E Powell. Note all the different coal sizes.The car to the left appears to have limestone(?) Over the large pile of coal I believe are the towers of the other two train stations.

Can't be limestone, waaay too big a car for any mineral product, must either be sawdust or slash. Was cut slash sold as firewood back in those years?

Dennis Storzek 

 


Re: NP Mystery Car

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The car clearly has TWO doors on the visible side, with door-tracks still in place. NP and several other roads (GN, PRR, etc.) had such ~55-60’ four-door boxcars. It has since had several smaller low doors added, as well as roof hatches. This is quite similar to other cars used for wood chip, slash, and block service.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:39 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Notice there is no door on the car, essentially making it an extremely tall gon. That says sawdust or wood chip car when sitting in the Pacific northwest.
 
Doug  Harding
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car
 
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:27 AM, np328 wrote:
  From the spur that the photographer was on in the prior photo. A D&RGW gon is being unloaded at A E Powell. Note all the different coal sizes.The car to the left appears to have limestone(?) Over the large pile of coal I believe are the towers of the other two train stations.
Can't be limestone, waaay too big a car for any mineral product, must either be sawdust or slash. Was cut slash sold as firewood back in those years?

Dennis Storzek 



Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Schleigh Mike
 

Tim & Group----

The Movie "It Happened to Jane," released in 1959 featured a New Haven SS boxcar, very likely off the roster for revenue but, still extant.

Regards from Grove City, wet and cooling down in western Penna.---Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 11:45:32 AM EST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Peter,

Why do you think 1948 is relevant? The color photo of south Boston was taken in the late
1950's (a previous source I have says the date is August 1960).

The Rock Island box car was built in 1952, and it is weathered and has a lube stencil patch.
The B&O billboard letters were introduced in the early 1950's (after 1951, for sure). The MEC
box car green paint is from the 1950's and the Cotton Belt double door box car was rebuilt in
1954.

By 1959 the New Haven rostered ZERO wood sheathed box cars, according to the ORER.

Tim O'Connor






On 2/25/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Those are all in service cars my friends. Those are not the RIP tracks in South Boston Freight Terminal. Look over by the brick smokestack and sand tower to see two switchers – the S-1 is working and smoking, the HH660 probably idling. Now, since Boston was a terminal, there is no telling how long the foreign road cars lingered before returning home.

 

There are three NH box cars in the photo;

McGinnis scheme (black with large “NH”) behind the Superior reefer

Script herald (BCR, very faded lettering) coupled to the right of the Superior reefer

The storage car that is on the ground to the right of the script herald car and to the left of the RI box car.

Notice there is a phone pole directly behind the script herald boxcar described above.

 

The storage car is one of the NHs old boxes, possibly 70200 series (I have a photo of NH 70218) which were rebuilt in 1935 with steel underframes from earlier NH 170000-170999-series 30-ton box cars.

 

The 40’ steel boxcars arrived beginning 1942 but there were still over 120 wood box cars in service in Sept 1948.  Beginning post-war many of the wood cars were converted to non-revenue service, which is the fate of the car in this photo. A white “NH” is visible above the “W-series” work car number.  Some cars were grounded and used for storage which appears to be the fate of this car. The yellow visible on the side is a patch of paint only so a black lettered stencil could be applied. This could have been applied while the car was still on trucks or not.  Could have said anything from “sand service only” to “property of mechanical dept.”

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

Agreed it’s a patch, but I think it’s a painted patch, painting out something, like a “return to” notice.  It’s a bit too ragged to be a carpenter’s parch.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 


It looks like fresh unpainted wood i.e. "patches" to me, Schuyler. I do not recognize
the cars at all. They don't look like anything that I know of from the New Haven. I'm
curious if anyone can figure out what they are. But I agree the photo scan is so poor
that nothing can be inferred about the lettering.

Tim O'Connor



On 2/25/2020 12:32 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

I don’t think those are “repairs.”  And at that distance and the age of the cars, dimensions and weight information may be there, faded, but not visible.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

couple of ss boxcars, apparently in inhouse service as all dims and weight

remarks all removed, and appears that

both had repairs to the same spot.on

both.cars, just to the left of the door,

can't remember that being a weak

structural spot in the ss design?

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:17 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

A Donald Haskel photo taken in August 1960:

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/305071/

A good variety of cars and roads.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

steve_wintner
 

Nice thing about those trucks is the styrene sideframe. Easily modified. (Delrin bearings, styrene sideframe)


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Lloyd Keyser
 

The C&NW HS had a special run of these trucks made by Overland many years ago. Might check ebay . The brake system shown is a passenger UC brake system. Cal Scale AB300.
Lloyd Keyser

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:21 PM Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:
Da Trucks

-Hudson


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

killercarp
 

Once you solve the truck problem there’s also the 10’6” high 5/5 square corner ends to vex a builder.

Tim VanMersbergen


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Hudson Leighton
 

Da Trucks

-Hudson


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 09:27 AM, Joseph wrote:
Any thoughts on the trucks under this guy in HO scale?
I can't tell what the top of the side frame looks like from the photo (too much shadow) but Tichy make a short wheelbase drop equalized truck that would fit:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3060/Default.aspx

Dennis Storzek


NP Mystery Car

Andy Carlson
 

I am sure that Gregg Martin would have some useful thoughts about hog fuel. Chipping whole logs for paper mills came about strongly in the 1950s. Prior to that time, hog fuel was mostly from sawmill leftovers which could be be diverted from the slash burners (The teepee Hut fire places) leaving mostly saw dust for on site burning, as it seems buyers for waste wood fuel use did not place a high value for saw dust.

Chipping became a big thing for the burgening North West paper mills with their huge demand for wood fiber which the mills found profits from chipping logs into fairly consistent sized chips. The demand for chips reached the point where whole logs were now chipped, no longer was mill waste with the problems of irregular size as valued.

Tim's photos show the type of non-chip loads on early hog fuel cars. Lots of slash which would have  otherwise been sent into the teepee burners. Chip cars and hog fuel cars were serving different markets.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 10:08:23 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



A couple of photos of hog fuel. There could be large pieces of wood - like firewood logs -
but those were usually loaded into specialized cars or gondolas. I've included a shot of this too.



On 2/26/2020 11:18 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Andy Carlson wrote:

Going back to the era of this car I would presume the car to be a Hog Fuel car, hog fuel being the mill slabs and other mill detritus. Chips were to come around later. 

     True about the nomenclature, but not about the product. The great majority of hog fuel that you can see in photos was definitely chips.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Yankee Clipper Kit List

Bill Welch
 

Wondering if anyone has a complete list of the kits with stock numbers offered several years ago by "Yankee Clipper?" I understand these were done for Bill Dulmaine by Steve Funaro but still interested in knowing the kits included originally under the Yankee Clipper label. Thank you.

Bill Welch


Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Hudson Leighton
 

According to one source:

Originally equipped with Allied Full-Cushion trucks, and changed to the Commonwealth trucks seen in the photo sometime around the early '50s.

-Hudson

24561 - 24580 of 194741