Date   

Re: Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)

Robert kirkham
 

The car with the open door is CP 17728X.  It was reweighed, I think, 25 05 38.  

CP 17728X was one of a series of Dominion boxcars (175000-177885) that appears in the ORERs for the first time in the 1930s, (sometime after July 1932 and before January 1938).  The CPR summary of equipment record for January 1938 lists 2861 cars in the series, with built dates 1909-1913.  

Ian Cranstone’s roster (Canadian Freight Cars) http://www.nakina.net indicates that the series emerges as two separate groups, as follows:

175000-175999 (in service from July 1935 to July 1980)
176000-177999 (in service from July 1936 to July 1980) (including the car in the photo)

I don’t know why earlier Dominion cars that were renumbered in the 1930s (series 170000-173999, and series 174000-174999 (both enter service July 1934) are not listed by CP in their 1938 Summary with the cars in the 175000-177885 series.  

Ian Cranstone also lists several subsequent series of Dominion cars that are renumbered, with multiple new number series from 178000 through 193199 coming into service from January 1938 through January 1959.  New series are added in every year except 1939, 1940, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1955-1958. By the 1940s, the various small series of cars are being listed as a single compiled series that grows over the years as further cars are added.

So far, I have not found a record indicating which specific cars from the original series built in 1909-1913 were renumbered into the 175000-177999 series (or any of the series noted here), and Ian Cranstone suggests they were pulled from various earlier, pre-existing number series. 

Spotting features for the original cars are not really obvious to me in this photo.  I was looking for the gusset plates (where diagonal and vertical framing meet) that feature prominently in some photos, but can see no sign of them in this image.   If i’m not mistaken, the modernized features (the basis for renumbering) would include the roof, steel door, second/top hand grab at the left end of the car side and the barely visible cast steel truck sideframes (but still using (i think) a Simplex bolster).   I suspect an end view of the car would show an additional steel brace or two.

The 1941 CP Summary of Equipment includes a specific listing - including these cars - as being equipped with cast steel truck side frames.  They are not listed among the cars with AB brakes.  There were 8724 cars in the series at that point.  

In the 1952 summary, all cars in the multiple series 170000-193199 are listed with steel frame trucks.  Still no cars with AB brakes from this group. 16030 cars remain in the series.  

I have not yet found a record indicating that any of the cars were later converted with AB brakes, although I believe a very few were.  That may have resulted in renumbering, which i have not checked for. 

While further original cars continued to be renumbered into this extended group after 1952, the count of the “renumbered" Dominion cars starts to shrink after the 1952 Summary, with 7135 cars in 1955.   

There were 47 cars remaining in the renumbered series by 1965.   

Rob


 
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
 
Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.
Scroll to enlarge the photo.
Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.
Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



Re: North Western Refrigerator Line Refrigerator Car NWX 10548

Robert kirkham
 

is it about different materials - some to which paint sticks; some “not so much”?

Rob

On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


WOW  - I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it -- painting the hinges and latches a different color
than the ice hatch tops ? Who does that ?? :-D


On 10/10/2022 2:24 PM, Richard Wilkens wrote:
More refrigerator car photos taken by Dallas Gilbertson, North Western Refrigerator Line Refrigerator Car NWX 10548 at Santa Maria, CA in May 1953. Tom Dill Collection, Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive.

Richard Wilkens
Director of Collections
Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE APPLIANCE IDENTIFICDATION

Tim O'Connor
 


I didn't have any specs, but I have added a little piece of styrene rod to represent this type of card holder.

On 10/11/2022 4:22 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:


I’m unaware of HO-scale defect card holders for adding to a freight car model. Will appreciate replies who knows of sources of HO defect card holders. 

Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Another car with no fascia

steve_wintner
 

Speaking as a working engineer, the factory mangling things is not as rare as one might wish. MIL-TFD-41 is often not followed. Then again, drawings often ask the nearly impossible, or fail to show things clearly. 

In other words, I bet most builders photos include a few goofs. This one's just not so subtle. Certainly the builders photos of the projects I've worked on had plenty of goofs....

Steve


Re: Japanese Internees Unloading A Boxcar

Drew M.
 

Looks like one of the Reading XA cars.

Drew Marshall in South Jersey

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp
On Oct 11, 2022, at 15:01, "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <verizon.net@groups.io target=_blank>chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Japanese Internees Unloading A Boxcar

Photo from the National Archives. Circa 1942-1945.

Caption:

“Rohwer Relocation Center, McGehee, Arkansas. Volunteer workers loading a truck from a boxcar for transportation to the warehouse at this center.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Another car with no fascia

radiodial868
 

Yep, it is a Builders Photo with apparently mangled end grabs. 
Go figure.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Another car with no fascia

Dennis Storzek
 

Frank, someone posted more info in the other thread:
https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/message/195909

Dennis Storzek


Re: North Western Refrigerator Line Refrigerator Car NWX 10548

Steve SANDIFER
 

  • Look at the variation in weathering of the PFE reefers in this photo: DAG14-016.jpg

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line Refrigerator Car NWX 10548

 


WOW  - I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it -- painting the hinges and latches a different color
than the ice hatch tops ? Who does that ?? :-D


On 10/10/2022 2:24 PM, Richard Wilkens wrote:

More refrigerator car photos taken by Dallas Gilbertson, North Western Refrigerator Line Refrigerator Car NWX 10548 at Santa Maria, CA in May 1953. Tom Dill Collection, Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive.

Richard Wilkens
Director of Collections
Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)

Philip Dove
 

Read the manual! The typewritten captions say it is a class outing. If it was Scouting as well as being single sex, the adult would have loads of badges on his shirt. 
One of the biggest efficiencies in shipping both maritime and railroads was when they bundled the lumber, and moved packages instead ofindividual sticks. On Tyneside receiving packaged lumber needed only 1%of the labor. Plus vast savings in storage areas, unnecessary sorting admin and far less equipment needed. 


Re: Early Intermodal

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 01:36 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Now we know how farmers got those old box cars home to use as storage sheds. :-)
Note that the boxcar has neither body bolsters nor center sills, likely no underframe at all. The CB&Q bodies I've inspected locally, all sold from the shop in Aurora, had the entire underframe removed, leaving the floor intact, and had lengths of used bridge timbers fitted between the side sills for support. Made the car lighter to haul, wile leaving the railroad most of the scrap steel.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: PFE APPLIANCE IDENTIFICDATION

Ed Hawkins
 



On Oct 11, 2022, at 1:05 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Here is a shot from a PFE refer at the Paris museum near Los angled.  Above the truck is a devise in the area where a defect card holder is normally placed.   This is unlike any defect card holder that I have seen.  I don’t know if
this is a clip or a tube in which the card would be rolled up and inserted (highly unlikely).   Anyone have a clue as to just what this item is and how it works?

Bill,
The item in question is a defect card holder by the name of “Cheeper” made by Western Railway Equipment Co. Attached is a U.S. Patent for it. 

There were a number of different types/manufacturers of defect card holders used from about 1937 thru the 1950s. The vast majority of new freight cars built during this period had one per car. It was usually located on the right side of the car, but some railroads preferred to locate it on the left side. On occasion it was located “out of view” either attached to an underframe member or the back side of the door reinforcement for a box car. In these cases were often stencils on the side “Defect Cards” with an arrow pointing to the vicinity.

Other common types included Apex, who offered both a left & right version; Real (also made by Western Railway Equipment Co.); and Motor Wheel T-Z. ACL was partial to Maclean-Fogg. A few railroads supplied a defect card holder of their own design, as did some of the major car builders.

I’m unaware of HO-scale defect card holders for adding to a freight car model. Will appreciate replies who knows of sources of HO defect card holders. 

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: Rapido Southern Pacific USRA SS boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Bruce, that is true, and also irrelevant. Since we each have no fixed "standard" of color perception, the RGB
values do indeed show DIFFERENCES in perceived color, and that's really all one person needs. It's all relative.
Too much blue? Too much green? And so on. (But you're right for mixing paints, those things you listed are handy.)

Also, everyone should calibrate their monitors if they can (color perception deficiency being a problem). That way
at least we can be sure when we send a color image to the group, that it looks pretty much the same on everyone's
screen. I've noticed that my new Galaxy S22 phone exaggerates many hues -- I don't know if I can dial it down, but
I'd sure like to. Even the camera in the phone does it! Yuck. We live in a Kodachrome world, but electronics seem to
want it to be a FujiFilm world (saturated colors).


On 10/10/2022 10:03 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Scott, Folks,

RGB is a color system that measures transmitted light. It is used for devices such as monitors. In addition, it is device dependent and by definition not precisely repeatable from device to device. It was never intended to, nor is it suitable to use to describe paint colors. I siuggest that you use an appropriate color system for pigments, such as Munsell (which is the gold standard, but hard to use unless you are a professional and have access), RAL or Pantone, or CMYK if you are using inks. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido Southern Pacific USRA SS boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Not just color deficiency but light sensitivity itself -- We need much more light on the subject now to see it clearly.

Inexpensive color scanners (3-in-1) can give you pretty accurate RGB values for any color. It's more work, but it is more accurate.


On 10/10/2022 8:28 PM, Matt Smith wrote:

Soooooo, another variable many people forget is that we are all a bunch of "old guys". By that I mean 1 in 12 men are, or will be color blind/color deficient. WIth red and green being the colors most affected by color blindness.  Maybe invite that special lady in your life for a second opinion when trying to match colors. 
--
Matt Smith

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PS-1 Models

Tim O'Connor
 


WHOOPS ! Correction -- the Kadee cars you want are #5099, #5100, etc - They are the same car as the other one
but have RIVETED end sheets, which is correct for the C&O cars. This particular style of construction was popular with
southern railroads.


On 10/11/2022 2:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


KADEE makes the 1948 and 1950 PS-1 bodies you want. But I think that the C&O 1948 PS-1 box cars had AAR underframes
and not the later PS-1 underframes. They are noticeably different.

Kadee #5000 is the 1950-1953 body with 8 foot doors. Also #4997, #4998 prepainted box car red color. Dunno the kit # if there
is one -- but ANY Kadee box car can be turned into a kit pretty easily, since there is no adhesive.



On 10/11/2022 11:11 AM, Dave Wetterstroem wrote:

Has anyone made a list of what manufactures have made PS-1 boxcars in HO scale and what attributes each model has? 

Something like Kadee 40' PS-1 Boxcar 10 panel, 6' Youngstown Door etc. 
I am trying to build my fleet of C&O boxcars. I have the data on these, but don't know which model would be the closest for each series. I realize that in today's world, just because it was made, doesn't mean you will be able to find it, but it would be nice to see what options are available in a single list. 

Road Series Description Built date Quantity Built Quantity 1952 Door Opening Door Style Panels
C&O 15000-15999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Feb-48 1000 975 6' 7P Sup1 12
C&O 16000-16999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Dec-50 1000 2496 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 17000-17999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Sep-51 1000 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 18000-18499 PS-1 40' Boxcar Jun-52 500 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 18500-18999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Jun-52 500 500 8' 6P Sup1 10


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Japanese Internees Unloading A Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Japanese Internees Unloading A Boxcar

Photo from the National Archives. Circa 1942-1945.

Caption:

“Rohwer Relocation Center, McGehee, Arkansas. Volunteer workers loading a truck from a boxcar for transportation to the warehouse at this center.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: PS-1 Models

Tim O'Connor
 


KADEE makes the 1948 and 1950 PS-1 bodies you want. But I think that the C&O 1948 PS-1 box cars had AAR underframes
and not the later PS-1 underframes. They are noticeably different.

Kadee #5000 is the 1950-1953 body with 8 foot doors. Also #4997, #4998 prepainted box car red color. Dunno the kit # if there
is one -- but ANY Kadee box car can be turned into a kit pretty easily, since there is no adhesive.



On 10/11/2022 11:11 AM, Dave Wetterstroem wrote:

Has anyone made a list of what manufactures have made PS-1 boxcars in HO scale and what attributes each model has? 

Something like Kadee 40' PS-1 Boxcar 10 panel, 6' Youngstown Door etc. 
I am trying to build my fleet of C&O boxcars. I have the data on these, but don't know which model would be the closest for each series. I realize that in today's world, just because it was made, doesn't mean you will be able to find it, but it would be nice to see what options are available in a single list. 

Road Series Description Built date Quantity Built Quantity 1952 Door Opening Door Style Panels
C&O 15000-15999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Feb-48 1000 975 6' 7P Sup1 12
C&O 16000-16999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Dec-50 1000 2496 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 17000-17999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Sep-51 1000 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 18000-18499 PS-1 40' Boxcar Jun-52 500 8' YSD-2 10
C&O 18500-18999 PS-1 40' Boxcar Jun-52 500 500 8' 6P Sup1 10


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)

Tim O'Connor
 


Very neatly loaded. The only load of lumber I ever saw being unloaded was from a 40 foot double door
Northern Pacific box car with a lumber door in one end. And it appeared that the entire car was loaded by
throwing sticks through the lumber door. It was a giant box of broken spaghetti. They had to unload every
stick, one by one.


On 10/11/2022 2:09 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)

On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7003186

Scroll to enlarge the photo.

Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.

Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE APPLIANCE IDENTIFICDATION

Tim O'Connor
 


Small tube defect car holders were quite common - what could be simpler ? :-)


On 10/11/2022 2:05 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

MORNING ALL:

Here is a shot from a PFE refer at the Paris museum near Los angled.  Above the truck is a devise in the area where a defect card holder is normally placed.   This is unlike any defect card holder that I have seen.  I don’t know if
this is a clip or a tube in which the card would be rolled up and inserted (highly unlikely).   Anyone have a clue as to just what this item is and how it works?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie




Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: War Material In Gondola Cars (1918)

Earl Tuson
 

I'm not sure what "Class B Bodies" are. Perhaps for trucks?
Perhaps for the "Liberty" trucks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_truck

While those in the photo have steel sides, they have the same general layout as the wood-sided versions depicted in several photos on the wikipedia page, including the angles stakes close to the ends.

Earl Tuson


Re: PFE APPLIANCE IDENTIFICDATION

charles slater
 

Bill that is a defect card holder, but it looks like the cover for the open end is missing.
Charlie slater

Sent from Outlook


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 11:05 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PFE APPLIANCE IDENTIFICDATION
 
MORNING ALL:

Here is a shot from a PFE refer at the Paris museum near Los angled.  Above the truck is a devise in the area where a defect card holder is normally placed.   This is unlike any defect card holder that I have seen.  I don’t know if
this is a clip or a tube in which the card would be rolled up and inserted (highly unlikely).   Anyone have a clue as to just what this item is and how it works?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie




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