Date   

Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Robert kirkham
 

Got it - thanks!

On Aug 10, 2022, at 5:41 AM, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:

Just mentioning a good place for small screws and hardware.

-Hudson


Hi Hudson - the link you sent went to the microfasteners webpage, but not to any specific product.  Can you point us to the item you were flagging?
 
Rob
 
Hide quoted text
 
On Aug 9, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:



Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Ted Larson
 

My local hardware store sells thin plastic washers.  I don’t know what resin they are molded from, perhaps Delrin (?).  




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Hudson Leighton
 

Just mentioning a good place for small screws and hardware.

-Hudson


Hi Hudson - the link you sent went to the microfasteners webpage, but not to any specific product.  Can you point us to the item you were flagging?
 
Rob
 
Hide quoted text

 

On Aug 9, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Dennis Storzek
 

Coming in late... A little bit of background on why HO scale trucks have 1/8" holes in their bolsters:

In the beginning...  models had wood floors and wood screws were used to hold the trucks on. This was ideal because wood screws aren't threaded all the way to the head, and that left a smooth shank for the truck to pivot on. A No. 2 screw had a shank diameter of .086" and NMRA RP-23 specified a .089" hole in the bolster (#43 drill) to provide a running fit. Still, to this day.

But Mr. Athearn had a problem. He wanted to use a two piece plastic floor and underframe to trap his steel weight between, so he increased the hole in the truck bolster to a running fit on the 1/8" diameter boss he molded on his underframe, and had the screw that threaded into the floor tighten against this boss to hold the sandwich together. Other manufacturers saw the advantage of having the screw tighten against a boss, whether they needed it to hold the UF to the floor or not, and it became the defacto standard.

But some trucks remained that had the .089" hole, and resin manufacturers left the boss off to allow the use of these trucks... aside from the fact that the thin walled boss is hard to fill.

If you are dealing with Accurail trucks a 4-40 screw won't work, because the counterbore in the bolster is too small for the screw head; I specifically sized the counterbore  to be a running fit on the HEAD of a 2-56 pan head screw, but other brands of trucks are different, so check before you drill.

And, someone mentioned the Proto:87 Stores car stabilizers... These also have a clearance hole to accommodate the 1/8" boss.

Dennis Storzek


Re: BR&P Boxcar End

Ray Breyer
 

Except that in general, these hat section rib ends were added to brand NEW cars, not rebuilds. While some roads like the NYC began massive car rebuilding programs as early as 1911, the real push to rebuild happened immediately after USRA control ended, and lasted up to the Depression. These braces were introduced just before WWI.

These types of end braces were an attempt by dirt-cheap railroads to try to avoid the added costs of steel ends, or even steel crash posts. They were the descendants of trussrod ends, and worked about as well. Note that NO first tier carriers ever mucked around with them (the Southern inherited theirs from absorbed railroads).

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 05:43:31 PM CDT, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:


There was a great deal of work done to reinforce the more modern all wood cars in the WWI period, because of the rapid increase in train weights and consequent train dynamics; the cars were too new to just write off as obsolete. Many different shops and companies worked on this sort of thing -some were marketed commercially and other just stayed within the company as homegrown practices.
Larry King


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Hudson - the link you sent went to the microfasteners webpage, but not to any specific product.  Can you point us to the item you were flagging?

Rob

On Aug 9, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:



Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Robert kirkham
 

I am a fan of those washers too.  They are very thin, so not much impact on car/coupler height, but they do provide a (at least a chance to achieve a) 3 point suspension.  

This afternoon i sliced some 1/8” styrene tube into very slim donuts, and glued them to the lower surface of the body bolsters.  So far, they make a big difference.  Haven’t decided yet whether it is worth the trouble to drill a 1/8” hole into the bolster and insert the tubing.  Time will tell . . . 

Rob

On Aug 9, 2022, at 3:15 PM, steve_wintner via groups.io <steve_wintner@...> wrote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Proto:87 stores' washers. I've used them and they do seem better than the "one screw tight one looser" method. (Admittedly not answering Rob's direct question, but answering his more general one.)

Steve 


Re: looking for brass freight cars on Ebay

Curt Fortenberry
 

 

As always you have to hope the sellers title their listings consistently to make any search useful.  

my 2 cents. 

Curt Fortenberry 


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Hudson Leighton
 


Re: BR&P Boxcar End

lrkdbn
 

There was a great deal of work done to reinforce the more modern all wood cars in the WWI period, because of the rapid increase in train weights and consequent train dynamics; the cars were too new to just write off as obsolete. Many different shops and companies worked on this sort of thing -some were marketed commercially and other just stayed within the company as homegrown practices.
Larry King


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

steve_wintner
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Proto:87 stores' washers. I've used them and they do seem better than the "one screw tight one looser" method. (Admittedly not answering Rob's direct question, but answering his more general one.)

Steve 


Re: BR&P Boxcar End

Ray Breyer
 

There weren't a whole lot of these types of strap ends made, Eric. And the few hundred that were made were generally isolated on deep south roads like the attached. By the time someone had a bright idea about hat section strap ends, the industry was already building cars with all steel ends in the tens of thousands.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 02:46:35 PM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


I suspect these pressed metal parts are part of the technological progress after the end truss rods that held the cars together. Ray Breyer authored a review of these truss rod end cars. The PDF can be downloaded from the Freight Car Fleets resource page on my blog.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/freight-car-fleets/

 

From the truss rod ends, steel straps were the next step before the pressed steel. The attached view of Big Four 47705 illustrates this installation.  

 

I’ve been checking my archives for additional cars with the pressed steel end braces. These were very common on gondolas in the 1905-1915 years. I thought I saw them on D&LW and NYC box cars, but I don’t see these in my photo archive. I did find a partial view of a P&R/Reading XMp class box car with pressed steel end braces. It’s attached. Funaro & Camerlengo produced this prototype as a resin kit.

 

There were also cars with vertical pressed steel posts on the car ends. Some LV and B&O prototypes come to mind. Corrugated steel ends came into use and were widely implemented. Steel plate with internal vertical reinforcement was another step in progress.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Weston via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] BR&P Boxcar End

 

Anyone have information on this style of end shown on this BR&P boxcar? Thanks! Bob Weston


Re: looking for brass freight cars on Ebay

Tim O'Connor
 


There are auction houses who handle brass collections, including Sotheby's. And Frank Peacock's
model collection was recently auctioned off. The difference with auction houses is that the BUYER
pays the fee.

Tim O'Connor


On 8/9/2022 1:12 PM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Hello friends,
 
yes, unfortunately they finally made their search engine almost useless. I am still there though because of lack of an alternative - that means an alternative in size. ebay is a trade mark since decades, so it will be VERY difficult to convince enough people to go to another platform. Keith Wiseman tried that two or three times during the last couple years.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. August 2022 um 15:49 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] looking for brass freight cars on Ebay
Steve

Wow, you're right they've really screwed it up. I haven't tried to sell on Ebay for over two years and I guess
I won't be using it any time soon.

However, I did an 'advanced search' for OMI [Overland] BRASS (material checklist) and HO (another checklist item)
and with those filters it found a small number of Overland brass auctions. Same with W&R and ORIENTAL as the search
term. I'm sure these are not the only listings, but at least I didn't get 10,000 or more ridiculous results.

In a sign that Ebay doesn't even believe in their OWN searches, at the bottom of the page they show GOOGLE search
results for your search terms !! What a bunch of amateurs run that place now. Since I see Youtube ads frequently for
automobile auctions for Ebay, they've obviously opted to cater to big ticket items and just let everybody else fend for
themselves.

It's time to find another auction site, and move all model railroaders over there !!! :-D


On 8/9/2022 6:50 AM, up4479 wrote:

If it were only that simple.  I just tried Tim's suggestion and got lots of returns but little brass. This has been going on for several months.   Several years ago eBay took away the "brass imports" category.  It was an effort to put more items in the search returns.  Several months ago, they changed the search again in order to increase the amount of items in a search return.  Someone upstairs decided that narrow searches were a bad thing.  EBay search is now almost completely useless for searches like HO brass models.  The returns are so numerous that you have to spend a ridiculous amount of time scrolling to find your items.  That is what a specific search is supposed to eliminate.   Another search I used to use was just the word custom in HO scale.  The returns were in the 600 to 700 range.  It was easy to keep up if you searched daily.  I just ran that search and got 12000 returns, almost none had anything custom about them.  All the searches for items like resin kits, plastic kits or almost anything else we would normally search for have a ridiculous amount of non related returns that make searching almost pointless. I'm going to work on a steam era model.   
Steve Solombrino


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks everyone.  I do not have a stash of Kadee No5 boxes to scavenge from, so i’ll pick up some 1/8” evergreen tube and go with that idea.   Appreciate all the suggestions.  it was reassuring to know it is a “thing”.

Rob

On Aug 9, 2022, at 12:25 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:


One other useful method that I have not seen mentioned yet is Evergreen plastic tubing, the O.D. being the desired size to fit inside a freight car truck. Drill a hole of this dimension vertically into the bolster king pin area. Clip off the tubing close to the desired height and finish with a file or as I do, the flat surface of a Dremel cut off disc. Self-tapping screw secures the truck and the tube locates the truck attachment in similar ways as the plastic Kadee pieces. This is also useful for fixing bolsters which have had their threads stripped.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Gary Bechdol
 

The filing is to smooth and polish the screw head, not reduce its size. 4-40 machine screws fit Tahoe trucks perfectly with no slop. Plus they are available at most big box and local hardware stores.

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 



On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 3:35 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Why not use 2-56 and forget the filing.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Bechdol
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

 

I've been using 4-40 x 1/4" machine screws.  I chuck them in a drill or motor tool and turn down the head slightly with a file. Also to remove any sharp edges under the head.

 

Gary Bechdol 

Stone Mountain, Ga 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 1:54 PM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

Robert there are washers made for the situation you have described.  I have attached a photo; however, I do not know the manufacturer.

Lester Breuer


Re: BR&P Boxcar End

Robert kirkham
 

That’s an interesting brake step as well.  

Interesting to try to spot those cars; I’m not able to add to your list.

Rob

On Aug 9, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I suspect these pressed metal parts are part of the technological progress after the end truss rods that held the cars together. Ray Breyer authored a review of these truss rod end cars. The PDF can be downloaded from the Freight Car Fleets resource page on my blog.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/freight-car-fleets/
 
From the truss rod ends, steel straps were the next step before the pressed steel. The attached view of Big Four 47705 illustrates this installation.  
 
I’ve been checking my archives for additional cars with the pressed steel end braces. These were very common on gondolas in the 1905-1915 years. I thought I saw them on D&LW and NYC box cars, but I don’t see these in my photo archive. I did find a partial view of a P&R/Reading XMp class box car with pressed steel end braces. It’s attached. Funaro & Camerlengo produced this prototype as a resin kit.
 
There were also cars with vertical pressed steel posts on the car ends. Some LV and B&O prototypes come to mind. Corrugated steel ends came into use and were widely implemented. Steel plate with internal vertical reinforcement was another step in progress.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Weston via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] BR&P Boxcar End
 
Anyone have information on this style of end shown on this BR&P boxcar? Thanks! Bob Weston<image001.jpg>

<CCC&StL_47705_xm_B-end_web.jpg><P&R-XMp-b-end_6-1912.jpg>


Re: BR&P Boxcar End

Eric Hansmann
 

I suspect these pressed metal parts are part of the technological progress after the end truss rods that held the cars together. Ray Breyer authored a review of these truss rod end cars. The PDF can be downloaded from the Freight Car Fleets resource page on my blog.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/freight-car-fleets/

 

From the truss rod ends, steel straps were the next step before the pressed steel. The attached view of Big Four 47705 illustrates this installation.  

 

I’ve been checking my archives for additional cars with the pressed steel end braces. These were very common on gondolas in the 1905-1915 years. I thought I saw them on D&LW and NYC box cars, but I don’t see these in my photo archive. I did find a partial view of a P&R/Reading XMp class box car with pressed steel end braces. It’s attached. Funaro & Camerlengo produced this prototype as a resin kit.

 

There were also cars with vertical pressed steel posts on the car ends. Some LV and B&O prototypes come to mind. Corrugated steel ends came into use and were widely implemented. Steel plate with internal vertical reinforcement was another step in progress.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Weston via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] BR&P Boxcar End

 

Anyone have information on this style of end shown on this BR&P boxcar? Thanks! Bob Weston


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Why not use 2-56 and forget the filing.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Bechdol
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

 

I've been using 4-40 x 1/4" machine screws.  I chuck them in a drill or motor tool and turn down the head slightly with a file. Also to remove any sharp edges under the head.

 

Gary Bechdol 

Stone Mountain, Ga 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 1:54 PM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

Robert there are washers made for the situation you have described.  I have attached a photo; however, I do not know the manufacturer.

Lester Breuer


Re: Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Tichy KC and AB brake sprues have two plastic washers that work well on resin cars with a flat kingpin. Kadee fiber washers come in two thicknesses coded red and gray. You can also use metal washers.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

 

Robert there are washers made for the situation you have described.  I have attached a photo; however, I do not know the manufacturer.

Lester Breuer


Preferred truck mounting on resin cars

Andy Carlson
 


One other useful method that I have not seen mentioned yet is Evergreen plastic tubing, the O.D. being the desired size to fit inside a freight car truck. Drill a hole of this dimension vertically into the bolster king pin area. Clip off the tubing close to the desired height and finish with a file or as I do, the flat surface of a Dremel cut off disc. Self-tapping screw secures the truck and the tube locates the truck attachment in similar ways as the plastic Kadee pieces. This is also useful for fixing bolsters which have had their threads stripped.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

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