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Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

And one as an attachment
Fred Jansz

Here's a better picture of the end.
(Thank you Frank Brehm)
Fred

Here's the diagram of the Hutchins end with the grab-ladder strip.
Why not straight down over the tops of the ribs?
(see RJ's post picture)
Fred Jansz

Look at the picture carefulley please:

- first rib -from top- you'd ecpect the strap to stick out, since there's ample space for the brakeman's hands.
  However, it does not.
- then the open space between ribs offers plenty of space for brakeman's hand, so you'd say; no strap needed.
  But in this position the strap is pointing away from the rib, creating a lot of room (where it's theoretically not needed).
  To bend down to the 2nd rib, where -again- the brakeman has ample space for his hands...
- Then the strap bends down (?) and up again to end flat on the 3rd rib, again no space for the brakeman's hands.
- to end straight down flat on the 4th rib.

Question: why did they do this, why not just a straight strip from top to bottom flat over the tops of the ribs?
Where the ribs not of equal height?

Apart from that, at least two grabs are not mounted 100% horizontally.

Car # 14100 (in the picture) is the last of the 14001-14100 series, so you might expect this 'ladder' is not a construction mishap, but they mastered it with the last car.
No clue though.
I'm no engineer, I do not understand this construction.
Fred Jansz

On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 02:05 PM, Richard Wilkens wrote:

In August 1956 photographer Dallas Gilbertson found aluminum refrigerator car PFE 45698 at Antelope, CA. Tom Dill Collection, Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive.

Richard Wilkens
Director of Collections
Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive

A couple of interesting items, to me, that I noticed about this great shot posted by Richard are;
 
1, There is no sign that I can see of a patch were the original mechanical fan has been removed from the left side of the car.
      A very nice repair indeed.

2, The fan stencil is on the right side of the car, right in the area of the dimensional data.
      Is this common for cars upgraded to electric fans ?

Dan Smith

During the period of USRA control of the railroads would the SP order paint from a paint manufacture or mix their own from pigments, oils, clays and other ingredients using their inhouse formulas?
Fred Swanson

Richard, 

On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 03:14 PM, radiodial868 wrote:

Any ideas why the vertical straps were installed in the first place? They appear to support the RH (inboard) end of the grabs, but why? 

To keep all the right hand grab iron ends in the same plane. Not so important on a Hutchins end, but necessary on Murphy ends since several would land on the sloped surface of ribs. For an example, look no further than the USRA boxcars.

Dennis Storzek

I posted a discription of how I attemped to straighten the warped 3D printed underframe on another thread about this model. I also posted unpainted photos of the pilot model I built before the kit went on the market. I made numerous suggestions and pointed out several errors in the car design and in the instructions. I don't know if any of my recommenations were taken, so the information I'm presenting here may or may not apply to the kit.

Originally, this kit was supposed to be a model of CB&Q SM-16 30 ton stock cars in series 58000-58999 bult in 1924 and series 59000-59499 built in 1922. These cars were originally built as single deck cars with end doors (drover doors and lumber doors). Some of these cars got a second deck, and some of the doors were boarded over later in operating life. Unfortunately, there are no records I know of indicating which cars were modified. I pointed out that the model could represent a late 1950s or 1960s modifiied car, but in it's currrent state, it was a model of the SM-18 stock car

SM-18 cars in series 56950-57499 in 1926, 56925-56949 in 1926, and 56700-56924 in 1927. They were nearly identical to the SM-16 class except they had no end doors and they were rated ad 40 tons. the CB&Q leased cars 56700-57649 to the FW&D, so those cars woulld not carry CB&Q lettering.

Here are some of the issues I found with the instructions and design of the kit. The Frame Layout diagram is incorret as viewed from the bottom of the frame. The B end is incorrectly labeled, as t brake cyinder actuator faces the B end of the car.  The diagram shows two brake rods on the A end and no handbrake chain and rod on the B end. The AB valve should be mounted near the side sill, not behind the air reservoir. teh bottom side grab iron above the sill step should be a half-drop grab iron. The end fascia should not extend past teh side fascia, and the roof overhang is excessive on both sides and ends. A loop extends from the roof for mounting the handbrake staff, a poor substitute for a ratchet and pawl. The brake staff foot which is part of the nickel silver end overlay is too thin to drill for the brake staff. The doors lack latch detail and there is no provision for the door chain. There is no bull board bracket on the sides. Teh Z-bars don't align well with the bolster, cross bearers, and cross ties.

The kit is being marketed as the SM-18, but SM-16 decals are supplied (see series numbers above). Lettering is incomplete on the decal sheet I received, as build date, length data, and repack data are missing. Double deck cars were identified by adding a D after the road number. Teh side decals have the D, but the end numbers lack the D.

I added several enhancement to my model, including Precision Scale handbrake parts and retainer valve to bring it closer to the prototype. I cut off the loop protruding from the roof to mount the ratchet and pawl.

I primed and painted the pilot model over the past two days, and discovered the discrepancy between class and road numbers on the decal sheet just today. This places me at a quandry, as I model 1953, probably too early for boarded over end doors. I've decided to letter my car as a double deck SM-18 using decal scraps from the 24 Sunshine SM-18/SM-18A stock cars I build a few years ago. The Sunshine decals include lettering for FW&D in addition to CB&Q, so I can cut two Ds to use with the end road numbers. The Sunshine decals have extra reweigh adn repack data stencils, but unfortunately, there are no extra build dates or length data decals. It's possible that I can find those latter decals in scraps from the many CB&Q boxcars I've built, otherwise that lettering will be missing from my model.

The model looks good from the aisle, and only close examination reveals it's deviation from the prototype. I hope the decals being distributed with the kit incorporated my suggestions.

Nelson Moyer

R.J. Dial wrote:

In August 1956 photographer Dallas Gilbertson found aluminum refrigerator car PFE 45698 at Antelope, CA. Tom Dill Collection, Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive.

Richard Wilkens
Director of Collections
Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive

In 1923 Mt Vernon built 100 automobile boxcars for the Western Pacific.  I've never seen a grab iron support like this before on any car. Evidence indicate the setup lasted into the 1940's at least.
Has anyone seen something similar on another type of car that might have a better photo?
Any ideas why the vertical straps were installed in the first place? They appear to support the RH (inboard) end of the grabs, but why? 
Thoughts?
I'm building a master for these, hence the question.
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA

Ha! It seems that paint color is a politics level type discussion based upon the offline responses I got. Thanks to everyone who did contact me, plus the online responses here. I really found the one on what minerals that were used to make BCR paint, the ochres, oxides, Vermillion, etc., and how they faded or darkened with time and sunlight to be interesting.
Short summary is:

• Newly painted SP cars looked brownish, but faded quickly depending on the mix of Primary and Secondary color minerals used to make the "brown".  It was not consistent by supplier, region or over time.
• Paint mix formulas used by the prototype do not scale.
• Lighting, as noted, can drastically affect colors in photographs, as does the type of color film.
• The steam era soot made everything dark. We early modelers usually don't weather our rolling stock enough.
• and many other nuances...

The solution I'm going follow is use a range of similar colors as seen in photos. Since the paint composition used prior to WW2 (my era) is different that later decades, I'll have to wing it to some degree.  There are later era photos in the file section of this list (one attached). That is actually appealing as it prevents sameness, as uniformity is not prototypical.
To that end, I'm going to do maybe one or two Rapido's with very light weathering and lettered as if recently repainted, lighten up the others and then weather my existing Tru-Color cars a little heavier. 
All is good.
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA