Date   

Re: Tank Car Steam Connections

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Well, at least I see this.  I was close, but not exactly correct.  See for example this UTLX patent heater from the 1930's
 
 
It appears that the steam goes out in the small inner pipe and returns as condensate after giving up its heat in the larger outer pipe to the header and is discharged.
 
Steve Hile



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Tank Car Steam Connections

 

This is partly a test message.  We have been on vacation for a week and had an Inbox overflow issue, so I am not sure what I missed or what has gotten out.
 
Anyway, all of the tank car heater configurations I have seen in my UTLX research have had both an inlet and an outlet.  Most single compartment tanks have them through the center sill near the main unloading pipe.  Multi-compartment tank cars generally have the inlet and outlet through the tank end.  There are many different patented pipe configurations and a central header from which the heater coils radiate.  John Van Dyke patented one of the early one for UTLX and they held several others.
 
If I am interpreting Dennis' original question correctly, he is referring to the photo of UTLX 56816 being unloaded into a road oil sprayer, that I think Doug Harding shared some time ago.  In this groups files is a 1952 listing of tank cars from UTLX, which Richard Hendrickson originally shared many years ago. For a given car number, you can see the nominal capacity, the car class and the type (if any) of heater it contained.  56816 was a 10000 gallon Type Z car (looks like a GA type 17 tank car.)  According to this list, 56816 has a Type L heater inside.  According to the table at the front of that listing, the Type L heater had a single header with 6 runs of 3" pipe.  It says that there is a 1/2 inch inside pipe, which I could interpret to mean the cooler returning steam to the header.  This car does not have a steam jacket around the nozzle.  It lists the inlet pipe as 1-1/4 inch and the outlet as 1 inch.
 
I hope that this is helpful and that it actually gets through.
 
Steve Hile


WESTERFIELD MODELS Newsletter, Vol 6, No 4, Nov 2017

dahminator68
 

Hello Steam Era Modelers:

 
We are pleased to announce that Westerfield Models has a new Kit available:

Our newest HO Kit release is the #12400 Series USRA DS Express Box for Northwestern Pacific.  These 22 Express service cars were rebuilt from the 100 USRA DS box cars (#1900-1999) allocated to the NWP in 1919.  The cars were originally rebuilt into express service in 1939 (Westerfield Kit #3818) but the service was discontinued during WWII.  In April, 1949, the cars were rebuilt with passenger steam, signal and air lines, and passenger style low uncoupling levers and retainer.  They were repainted with the famous “Redwood Empire Route Overnight” lettering.  These cars were painted SP Dark Olive Green with black roof, underframe and trucks.   

Our #12400 Series ONE-PIECE Body Kits cover the 1949 version of the Express Service box car with NWP’s “Redwood Empire Route Overnight” lettering scheme as well as passenger style steam and signal lines.  This colorful lettering is accurately reproduced with our multi-color decal set.  

The 1939 NWP Express Service box car is also available as our Kit #3818.
The 1946-1960 Freight version box car is available as our Kit #3858.

Our unpainted HO Kits include detail parts appropriate for the NWP Express Service version, including the following details:
Improved Cast Urethane One-Piece Body Construction with Fine Details.
Urethane Castings of detail parts, including many car specific parts.
Plastic Steam, air and signal hoses.
Yarmouth Etched Bronze Corner Steps.
Full Color Proprietary Decals covering the 1949 Express Service versions of the car.
Detailed Step by Step Instructions and History Sheets with assembly and finished model photographs.
Recommended Trucks:  Tahoe Model Works TMW-112 or TMW-212 Andrews Trucks.
Tahoe TMW-112 (Code 110) or TMW-212 (Code 88) Andrews Trucks available separately or with Kit (See below).
Kadee Couplers are available separately.
Kit also includes a PDF file color photo of NWP #1960 with Express Lettering.  Email required.

They are available direct from Westerfield Models for $ 46.00 each plus shipping.  Available through our website, mailed in order form or phone order.
Most of our Kits do not include trucks or couplers.  We do offer Tahoe Trucks and Kadee Couplers for this Series of Kit and separately for our other Kits.  See the Kit versions listed below.  Operating Era for NWP Express Service box cars covered by #12400 Series Kits: 1949-1960.

AVAILABLE NOW ON OUR WEBSITE UNDER "New Kit Releases".
KIT NUMBER:
#12451       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brakes, NWP, Kit Only.                                                      $46.00
#12481       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brk, NWP, with Tahoe TMW-112 Code 110 Trucks      $52.00
#12482       USRA DS Box Car, Express Service, AB Brk, NWP, with Tahoe TMW-212 Code 88 Trucks        $53.00

Please also see our Kits covering the earlier and later versions of the NWP box cars:
#3818         USRA DS Box Car, Original, K Brakes, NWP, Kit Only, Op Era 1918-1946.  Includes parts for early Express Service box cars.  $42.00
#3858         USRA DS Box Car, Modern, AB Brakes, NWP, Kit Only, Op Era 1946-1960.                                   $41.00
#3881         Above #3800 Series Kit with Tahoe #TMW-112 Code 110 Trucks.                                                 $48.00
#3882         Above #3800 Series Kit with Tahoe #TMW-212 Code 88 Trucks.                                                   $49.00

All of our Kits and the above listed Kits are available on our website: 
westerfieldmodels.com

Our Recent Kit Releases:  S-40-1/2/3 Pressed Steel Underframe Stock Cars are also available in both single ($40) and double deck versions ($41).
#12500 Series S-40-1 Stock cars for UP and Subsidiaries.  Op Era:  1905-1951.  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=262_458

#12600 Series S-40-2 Stock Cars for SP and Subsidiaries and UP and Subsidiaries.  Op Era:  1906-1952.    https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=262_462

#12700 Series S-40-3 Stock Cars for SP and Subsidiaries and UP and Subsidiaries.  Op Era:  1909-1955.  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?

Westerfield Models also still has available several highly accurate versions of the 36 foot Fowler Box and Stock cars.  Decals for all versions are also available on our website.
#1500 Series:  SS Fowler Box Car, 5 foot Door, CP and TH&B Versions:  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=100_374
#4200 Series:  Fowler Stock Car, 5 or 6 foot Door, CP, CN and NAR Versions:  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=130_282
#4300 Series:   SS Fowler Box Car, 6 foot Door, CN, Erie, Susquehanna, GT, NC&StL Versions:  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?

Westerfield Models is currently working on our next Kit Series:  #12800:  B-50-15 SS Box Car, Modern, SP and Subsidiaries, Op Era:  1937-1974.
Watch for future Newsletters about the release of this Kit Series.

Westerfield Kits include new HO scale unpainted urethane castings, and are complete with quality details, detailed instruction/history sheets 
and proprietary decals covering all versions of the prototype car.   Trucks and couplers are not included but are available separately. 

Westerfield Models is available for custom casting work.  We can make castings from your patterns, both from your custom masters or your 3D printed masters.  Please see our Website, Main Page "Custom Castings" for more information.  Link to page:  http://westerfieldmodels.com/116622.html

Westerfield Models now has a Facebook and YouTube page where we post photos and videos of our new projects and Modelers photos of completed or in process Westerfield Model Freight cars.
Please send us your photos and videos of your completed or in process Westerfield Model Kits, along with a description of your work, details used, painting methods, etc.
Please send to our email:  westerfieldmodels@....
Check out our Facebook page here:  https://www.facebook.com/westerfieldmodels/         
If on Facebook, you can use:            @westerfieldmodels.
 
Questions or Suggestions?  Feel free to email us at:  westerfieldmodels@....
 
Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfield Models, LLC
westerfieldmodels.com
westerfieldmodels@...
Like us on Facebook!







Tank Car Steam Connections

Steve and Barb Hile
 

This is partly a test message.  We have been on vacation for a week and had an Inbox overflow issue, so I am not sure what I missed or what has gotten out.
 
Anyway, all of the tank car heater configurations I have seen in my UTLX research have had both an inlet and an outlet.  Most single compartment tanks have them through the center sill near the main unloading pipe.  Multi-compartment tank cars generally have the inlet and outlet through the tank end.  There are many different patented pipe configurations and a central header from which the heater coils radiate.  John Van Dyke patented one of the early one for UTLX and they held several others.
 
If I am interpreting Dennis' original question correctly, he is referring to the photo of UTLX 56816 being unloaded into a road oil sprayer, that I think Doug Harding shared some time ago.  In this groups files is a 1952 listing of tank cars from UTLX, which Richard Hendrickson originally shared many years ago. For a given car number, you can see the nominal capacity, the car class and the type (if any) of heater it contained.  56816 was a 10000 gallon Type Z car (looks like a GA type 17 tank car.)  According to this list, 56816 has a Type L heater inside.  According to the table at the front of that listing, the Type L heater had a single header with 6 runs of 3" pipe.  It says that there is a 1/2 inch inside pipe, which I could interpret to mean the cooler returning steam to the header.  This car does not have a steam jacket around the nozzle.  It lists the inlet pipe as 1-1/4 inch and the outlet as 1 inch.
 
I hope that this is helpful and that it actually gets through.
 
Steve Hile


Re: Airbrushes (was Iwata HP-M2)

Tim O'Connor
 


Wow, that looks like an exact clone of my Iwata. Good price too.

Tim O'Connor



  https://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=595
  new from paasche
  Thomas j Cataldo


Re: Airbrush: Iwata HP-M2

Bill Welch
 

Not new at all but a very good Airbrush. I have the setup w/the three needles/nozzles/tips etc.

Bill Welch


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Richard Townsend
 

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

 
The outlet does not need to be venting steam. Nor does there need to be a return line to the steam generator;
A condensate trap at a low point will drain water and allow fresh hot steam into the system. 
Same as for the steam heat system on many passenger cars.
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

 
Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.




Re: Airbrush: Iwata HP-M2

tjcataldo
 

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:39 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone used this airbrush? If so, what did you think of it?

 

Iwata HP-M2

http://www.iwata-medea.com/products/iwata-airbrushes/revolution/m-series/hp-m2/

 

Thank you.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




--
Thomas  j Cataldo


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

I have seen ACF drawings of heater coils.  One has connections through the tank head - two each inlets and outlets, i.e. an inlet and an outlet for the left set of coils and a pair for the right set.
The other drawing had one inlet and one outlet through the bottom of the tank and through openings in the center sill cover plates.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville NJ


On Nov 16, 2017, at 10:39 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Chuck…

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess
=========================

Jack, 
If you are commenting on my road oil tankcar, they are not introducing steam into the oil, but rather into the heating coils, which are a closed system. What Chuck is saying is you don't need to vent steam out the other end of the coil; as the steam gives up its heat, it condenses to water, which trickles down to the steam trap, where it is expelled from the system, same as a passenger car heating system, or, for that matter, my building heating system. If I recall the function of the steam traps correctly, they have a bi-metallic diaphragm that when covered by water, cools enough to pop open. With the water gone and steam flowing by, the diaphragm heats up enough to pop closed again.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Steve SANDIFER
 

I have photos of the inside of an ATSF storage tank at Emporia with the large heating lines inside that tank. Santa Fe tended to drain the oil out of the cars into wood lined troughs between the rails and then pump it into the large tanks for storage.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 9:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <jack@...> wrote :

Chuck…

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess
=========================

 

Jack, 

If you are commenting on my road oil tankcar, they are not introducing steam into the oil, but rather into the heating coils, which are a closed system. What Chuck is saying is you don't need to vent steam out the other end of the coil; as the steam gives up its heat, it condenses to water, which trickles down to the steam trap, where it is expelled from the system, same as a passenger car heating system, or, for that matter, my building heating system. If I recall the function of the steam traps correctly, they have a bi-metallic diaphragm that when covered by water, cools enough to pop open. With the water gone and steam flowing by, the diaphragm heats up enough to pop closed again.

 

Dennis Storzek


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Makes more sense now Dennis…



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections










---In STMFC@..., <jack@...> wrote :

Chuck…

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess
=========================



Jack,

If you are commenting on my road oil tankcar, they are not introducing steam into the oil, but rather into the heating coils, which are a closed system. What Chuck is saying is you don't need to vent steam out the other end of the coil; as the steam gives up its heat, it condenses to water, which trickles down to the steam trap, where it is expelled from the system, same as a passenger car heating system, or, for that matter, my building heating system. If I recall the function of the steam traps correctly, they have a bi-metallic diaphragm that when covered by water, cools enough to pop open. With the water gone and steam flowing by, the diaphragm heats up enough to pop closed again.



Dennis Storzek










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Chuck…



That helps…I was thinking that you were describing a system where steam was simply injected into the tank car.



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections








Jack, the condensate trap is attached to the low point of the steam coils and drains to the ground. No water need be

introduced to the oil being heated.

Not speaking from theory or hearsay, I spent 22 years as an engineer in the engine room of ships, many of which

burned bunker fuel.

I have no idea how the the Yosemite Valley oil got contaminated so badly as I was told this summer, in the cab,

that they were burning used and re-purified motor oil. I did not inquire as to their storage.

Chuck Peck



On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:04 PM, 'Jack Burgess' jack@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Chuck…

I asked a current day, experienced steam locomotive fireman a question about Bunker C in a similar situation on the Yosemite Valley Railroad. Based on his knowledge, I wrote an article which read:

“Adjacent to the oil tank was a covered 16’x36’ by 6’ deep settling tank. One purpose of the settling tank was to easily transfer fuel oil from a tank car to the oil tank via the settling tank. Fuel oil in a loaded tank car could drain by gravity from the tank car to the settling tank. But the settling tank had a much more important function which was to permit the separation of water and other impurities from the oil before it was pumped to the YV oil tank. If not removed, thus impurities could obstruct firing of the locomotive. Steam coils in the settling tank kept the oil fluid so that it could be pumped into the above-ground oil tank via an electric pump.”

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

The outlet does not need to be venting steam. Nor does there need to be a return line to the steam generator;

A condensate trap at a low point will drain water and allow fresh hot steam into the system.

Same as for the steam heat system on many passenger cars.

Chuck Peck

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <jack@...> wrote :

Chuck…

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess
=========================

Jack, 
If you are commenting on my road oil tankcar, they are not introducing steam into the oil, but rather into the heating coils, which are a closed system. What Chuck is saying is you don't need to vent steam out the other end of the coil; as the steam gives up its heat, it condenses to water, which trickles down to the steam trap, where it is expelled from the system, same as a passenger car heating system, or, for that matter, my building heating system. If I recall the function of the steam traps correctly, they have a bi-metallic diaphragm that when covered by water, cools enough to pop open. With the water gone and steam flowing by, the diaphragm heats up enough to pop closed again.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Charles Peck
 

Jack, the condensate trap is attached to the low point of the steam coils and drains to the ground. No water need be
introduced to the oil being heated.  
Not speaking from theory or hearsay, I spent 22 years  as an engineer in the engine room of ships, many of which
burned bunker fuel.  
I have no idea how the the Yosemite Valley oil got contaminated so badly as I was told this summer, in the cab,
that they were burning used and re-purified motor oil. I did not inquire as to their storage. 
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:04 PM, 'Jack Burgess' jack@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Chuck…

I asked a current day, experienced steam locomotive fireman a question about Bunker C in a similar situation on the Yosemite Valley Railroad. Based on his knowledge, I wrote an article which read:

“Adjacent to the oil tank was a covered 16’x36’ by 6’ deep settling tank. One purpose of the settling tank was to easily transfer fuel oil from a tank car to the oil tank via the settling tank. Fuel oil in a loaded tank car could drain by gravity from the tank car to the settling tank. But the settling tank had a much more important function which was to permit the separation of water and other impurities from the oil before it was pumped to the YV oil tank. If not removed, thus impurities could obstruct firing of the locomotive. Steam coils in the settling tank kept the oil fluid so that it could be pumped into the above-ground oil tank via an electric pump.”

So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…

Jack Burgess

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

The outlet does not need to be venting steam. Nor does there need to be a return line to the steam generator;

A condensate trap at a low point will drain water and allow fresh hot steam into the system.

Same as for the steam heat system on many passenger cars.

Chuck Peck

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: Airbrush: Iwata HP-M2

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Denny...

I think that was the same sales pitch that I experienced a number of years
earlier at another NMRA convention when I purchased my Iwata double action
airbrush...

Jack Burgess

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:53 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Airbrush: Iwata HP-M2

I will speak up also for the double actions. I had been happily using a
bullet-proof Paasche syphon single action brush since the mid fifties. Then
at the NMRA Sacramento convention some 7 or 8 years ago, in a moment of
exhuberant non-judgment I fell for a great sales talk, and purchased on
first sight at full bore an Iwata double action. I have never looked back,
and I can also admire the Iwata for the very finely fabricated and finished
instrument that it is. I love it for its ease of use and resistance to
clogging.

The Paasche is a classic that takes a back seat to no one, however. It is
American-made, unchanged since inception, and with skills more expertly
applied, it still can do just about any job our hobby requires.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



------------------------------------
Posted by: Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Chuck…



I asked a current day, experienced steam locomotive fireman a question about Bunker C in a similar situation on the Yosemite Valley Railroad. Based on his knowledge, I wrote an article which read:



“Adjacent to the oil tank was a covered 16’x36’ by 6’ deep settling tank. One purpose of the settling tank was to easily transfer fuel oil from a tank car to the oil tank via the settling tank. Fuel oil in a loaded tank car could drain by gravity from the tank car to the settling tank. But the settling tank had a much more important function which was to permit the separation of water and other impurities from the oil before it was pumped to the YV oil tank. If not removed, thus impurities could obstruct firing of the locomotive. Steam coils in the settling tank kept the oil fluid so that it could be pumped into the above-ground oil tank via an electric pump.”



So, it is hard to understand why they would introduce steam/water into a tank car full of Bunker C rather than circulate through a series of pipes and then let it vent to the outside. In addition, my understanding from what he told me is that water flowed to the surface of a steam locomotive tender not to a low point…



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections








The outlet does not need to be venting steam. Nor does there need to be a return line to the steam generator;

A condensate trap at a low point will drain water and allow fresh hot steam into the system.

Same as for the steam heat system on many passenger cars.

Chuck Peck



On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR



-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections



Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Airbrush: Iwata HP-M2

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

I will speak up also for the double actions. I had been happily using a bullet-proof Paasche syphon single action brush since the mid fifties. Then at the NMRA Sacramento convention some 7 or 8 years ago, in a moment of exhuberant non-judgment I fell for a great sales talk, and purchased on first sight at full bore an Iwata double action. I have never looked back, and I can also admire the Iwata for the very finely fabricated and finished instrument that it is. I love it for its ease of use and resistance to clogging.

The Paasche is a classic that takes a back seat to no one, however. It is American-made, unchanged since inception, and with skills more expertly applied, it still can do just about any job our hobby requires.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Charles Peck
 

The outlet does not need to be venting steam. Nor does there need to be a return line to the steam generator;
A condensate trap at a low point will drain water and allow fresh hot steam into the system. 
Same as for the steam heat system on many passenger cars.
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

 
Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.




Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

Richard Townsend
 

More engineering ignorance on my part here: doesn't the steam need to flow through the heating pipes? In other words, doesn't there need to be two connections for steam, one inlet and one outlet? It seems to me that static steam would cool pretty fast and be useless for heating the tank car contents. Surely they didn't introduce steam directly into the contents.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Nov 16, 2017 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tankcar Steam Connections

 
Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.



Re: Tankcar Steam Connections

destorzek@...
 

Thanks to all who answered. The project was trying to figure out what exactly was happening in a forties era photo captioned "unloading road oil." There is a tankcar, an oil spreader truck with the booms folded across the back, and a trailer full of unidentifiable machinery between them. There is a hose from the top of the dome to the trailer, and a second from the trailer to the hatch on top of the tank truck. Then there is another hose from the trailer to the bottom of the tankcar. I am of the opinion that there are both an engine powered pump and a steam generator on the trailer, and the last hose is running steam to heat the car.



Re: For PRR X29 boxcar fans

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Claus,

I'm guessing this is long, but for some reason I missed your post until now.  If you still have the info, I'd love to have it.  If not, oh well.

Thanks,

Dave

Thursday, October 26, 2017, 6:17:03 PM, you wrote:


 
Hi List Members,

I'm cleaning out some stuff I no longer need.

This is for PRR X29 boxcar fans, I have the following data pack... this includes the following set of articles cut from magazines for my library

* X29 Box Car by Hom part 1 and 2
*PRR X29 Modeling by Martin
*Pennsylvania X29 by Amerine and Freeman
*Cars in Context by Burg
*Essential Freight Cars 35 X29 by Culotta
*Pennsylvania Railroad X29 Box Cars by Hendrickson
 

It is time for someone else to enjoy.

Great reference on this topic.

It is free, I will put it in an envelope and mail it to you for the asking.

Email me OFF LIST at

CLAUS
then the usual email separator
HELLGATEMODELS
period
COM

Thanks

Claus Schlund




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David Bott

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