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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Ken O'Brien
Been following this from the start and I seem to think this is the Erie 28th Street yard, looking east from the vicinity of the West Side Highway. The building in the right background looks like the Erie freight-house, with the stepped brick facade. This yard was on the southwest side of Manhattan, served by an Erie float bridge. It was one city block wide and 1.5-2 city blocks long. Eleventh thru 13th Avenues (run north south in Manhattan) There were a number of yards in the vicinity, with the LV and B&O just south of the Erie. All car float served. The NYC had a direct connection further North in Manhattan, so no float bridge needed there. Busy scene, but long closed.
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Re: Preserved cars in northwestern PA
jace6315
A few spots that come to mind: there's an ore jenny and a flat lettered for B&LE at the Greenville, PA railroad museum park (plus a couple of cabs and a unique URR 0-10-2). There also may still be a couple of detrucked 40' boxcars alongside the B&LE main in town.
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There's a restored PC, ex NYC, box in Shippensburg now supporting the local rail trail. I haven't been there for a few years but Weirton, WV was always worth the visit if you like old, beat up steel mill gons some of which can be seen on the Main Street bridge over the mill trackage. Some 20 years ago or so I came across a PS-0 box in Steubenville on the Ohio side of the river but I suspect that's long gone. Jim
-------- Original Message -------- On Jul 31, 2022, 8:30 PM, Steve SANDIFER < steve.sandifer@...> wrote:
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Re: stock car capacity
Steve SANDIFER
What year? What kind of animal? They vary. For instance Chicago’s record for the greatest number of stock cars received in one 24 hour period was 3,228 cars. Wow. The stock yard records I have say how many animals were shipped out vs. shipped in, but it does not say to which destination they were shipped. If they were feeder animals, they could have gone anywhere for fattening. If a rancher was changing breeds or wanting new bloodlines those animals could go anywhere, not necessarily to slaughter. The records can be found in the Chicago Stock Yard Archives at the University of Illinois Chicago. The info is in the Chicago Board of Trade annual reports. Those records do break down how many animals arrived each year by railroad and how many were shipped out by railroad. Since I was only interested in ATSF, those are the only records I have. Being a western railroad, most ATSF cars left the stock yards empty. For instance, in 1943, ATSF brought in 10 cars of horses, 2426 cars of cattle, 4160 cars of calves, 141 cars of hogs, 1138 cars of sheep, for a total of 7875 cars. They only shipped out 34 cars, primarily cattle. Santa Fe was a much larger patron of the Kansas City Stock Yards than Chicago. In 1945 the ATSF sent 26,076 car loads to KC and took away 6413 loads from the yards to other places.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Patrik
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2022 3:03 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] stock car capacity
Thank you Guy Wilber. I should have known that the numbers of livestock would vary by the weights of the animals. Very enlightening.
I recently read a fascinating book, Slaughterhouse: Chicago's Union Stock Yards and the World It Made, by Dominic Pacyga. In the 1920's, Union Stock Yards was unloading and selling on average around 50,000 head of livestock a day, a large percentage of which were reloaded into their cars and then shipped to packing houses mainly in the East. Since I like modeling stock cars, I was wondering how many cars would be traversing my Fort Wayne Division a day, I would guess in stock/produce hotshots. So your capacity numbers give me some understanding of how many cars might be moving East. Thank you.
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 1:20 PM Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
-- Best regards,
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
A Clemens
OMG! The truck's side, NOT the door!
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
A Clemens
I think the door reads 139 PAVONIA AVE JERSEY CITY, N.J.
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 4:44 PM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
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Re: stock car capacity
Steve SANDIFER
Illustration No. 2
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CATTLE • AVGE. WEIGHT PER HEAD 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400 Size Car UV—No. Head 60 50 42 36 33 30 27 25 23 22 21 19 Size Car 40'—No. Head 56 46 40 37 33 30 27 35 23 22 21 HOGS AVGE WEIGHT PER HEAD 100 133 150 175 200 22.5 250 275 300 325 350 400 Size Car 30'—No. Head* 130 116 100 Su 79 73 68 62 60 57 54 49 Size Car 40'—No. Head• 145 127 110 9S 88 81 76 69 66 64 60 54 *Single deck cars. ha HORSES AVGE. WEIGHT PER HEAD 700 800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400 1500 1600 1700 1800 Size Car 361—No„ Head 29 27 25 24 23 23 21 19 13 18 17 17 Size Car 40'—No. Head 32 30 28 27 26 24 23 21 20 19 19 18 SHEEP OR LAMBS 1.6 AVGE. WEIGHT PER HEAD 50 75 100 125 150 180 Single Deck 36'—No. Head 150 125 105 95 85 75 Single Deck 40'—No. Head 165 138 116 105 94 82 Double Deck 36'--No. Head 0 4 • 300 250 210 190 170 150 Double Deck 40'—No. Head 330 276 236 210 188 164 In loading proper animals in double deck cars, the number loaded on the upper deck should be eight to ten (8 to 10) head less than on the lower deck. J. Stephen Sandifer
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Patrik Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2022 12:01 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] stock car capacity Can anyone tell me steam era approximate average standard 40' stock car loadings (animals per car) for: single deck - cattle; double deck - sheep or hogs? -- Gary Patrik
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Re: stock car capacity
Philip Dove
Airfix did a set of farm animals that were advertised as 00 HO they were good but you got pigs, sheep, cows, carthorses, hens, feed troughs...... Haven't seen this set for decades. Good models though. Preiser do beautiful models of pigs, inH0 but they are expensive. The set l treated myself to had an exquisite model of a sow suckling her piglets. Not what you need in a stockyard waiting to be loaded.
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Jack Mullen
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 04:50 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:
Aha! Thanks, Hudson. The bottom line of lettering resonated in my mind as "Staten Island N.Y." solely based on overall shape, not distinguishing any actual letters, so I wasn't at all sure of that interpretation. That would make Jersey City a plausible nearby location on the Erie, close enough for a Staten Island produce buyer. And Jersey City would indeed belong in the "G-J" volume I cited earlier. I think we've got it. :^) Jack Mullen
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Re: stock car capacity
Todd Sullivan
philip,
Con Cor's recent PCC car has some interesting mirror effects, similar to what you describe. If you can find that model to examine first hand, let me know, and I'll send you some photos of mine. Todd Sullivan
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Re: Preserved cars in northwestern PA
Steve SANDIFER
That’s Harlansburg. 2 Hwt PRR Pullmans and 2 Lwt PRR coaches based on what I see on Google Earth.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Boss
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2022 8:14 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Preserved cars in northwestern PA
Harlinburg Pa has a small collection of PRR passenger cars, it used to also be a museum as well. It is at Pa RT19& PA RT108. PA RT108 exits right off I 79
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Re: stock car capacity
Nelson Moyer
Thanks, Steve. They had two packs left, and I ordered both, but fifty cents a hog is too costly to fill pens in seven towns. I’m still looking for cheaper hogs in bulk.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
20 for $10 unpainted. I bet they are 3-d printed and if you contact the seller can get a bigger break on more. https://www.ebay.com/itm/354006435047?hash=item526c6d84e7:g:GaQAAOSwtQliEcRh
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Bruce Hendrick
Try searching HO HOGS in addition to PIGS on sources such as Walthers.com and eBay.
Lifelike sells a pre painted set of six HO hogs. But there are also sets of 10 to 20 pigs/hogs in unpainted resin which are cheaper and should be easy to paint in mass. Also, years ago Airfix (I think) sold sets of unpainted hogs/pigs in a rubbery plastic that might be found. No doubt other offerings can be found with a bit on online searching. Happy hunting.
Bruce Hendrick Brea, California
On Sunday, July 31, 2022, 4:36 PM, Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...> wrote:
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Re: stock car capacity
Nelson Moyer
I did, and the first hit was the Harley-Davidson web site. The currently available hogs aren’t market ready size, standing, or sold in bulk. I was hoping somebody had a bag of hogs meeting my needs for sale.
Nelson Moyer
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Bruce Hendrick
Try searching HO HOGS in addition to PIGS on sources such as Walthers.com and eBay.
Lifelike sells a pre painted set of six HO hogs. But there are also sets of 10 to 20 pigs/hogs in unpainted resin which are cheaper and should be easy to paint in mass. Also, years ago Airfix (I think) sold sets of unpainted hogs/pigs in a rubbery plastic that might be found. No doubt other offerings can be found with a bit on online searching. Happy hunting.
Bruce Hendrick Brea, California
On Sunday, July 31, 2022, 4:36 PM, Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...> wrote:
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Re: stock car capacity
Steve SANDIFER
20 for $10 unpainted. I bet they are 3-d printed and if you contact the seller can get a bigger break on more. https://www.ebay.com/itm/354006435047?hash=item526c6d84e7:g:GaQAAOSwtQliEcRh
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Hendrick
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2022 6:52 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] stock car capacity
Try searching HO HOGS in addition to PIGS on sources such as Walthers.com and eBay.
Lifelike sells a pre painted set of six HO hogs. But there are also sets of 10 to 20 pigs/hogs in unpainted resin which are cheaper and should be easy to paint in mass. Also, years ago Airfix (I think) sold sets of unpainted hogs/pigs in a rubbery plastic that might be found. No doubt other offerings can be found with a bit on online searching. Happy hunting.
Bruce Hendrick Brea, California On Sunday, July 31, 2022, 4:36 PM, Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...> wrote:
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Guy Wilber
Hudson wrote:
"I don't recognize anything that makes it Minneapolis / St. Paul."
Thanks, Hudson! Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
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Re: stock car capacity
Bruce Hendrick
Try searching HO HOGS in addition to PIGS on sources such as Walthers.com and eBay.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Lifelike sells a pre painted set of six HO hogs. But there are also sets of 10 to 20 pigs/hogs in unpainted resin which are cheaper and should be easy to paint in mass. Also, years ago Airfix (I think) sold sets of unpainted hogs/pigs in a rubbery plastic that might be found. No doubt other offerings can be found with a bit on online searching. Happy hunting. Bruce Hendrick
On Sunday, July 31, 2022, 4:36 PM, Drew Bunn <drew.r.bunn@...> wrote:
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Hudson Leighton
I think the truck door says "West New Brighton". Which Mr, Google says is Staten Island.
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Hudson Leighton
I don't recognize anything that makes it Minneapolis / St. Paul.
That diagonal conveyor has to be the key to the location. -Hudson
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Scott H. Haycock
Google shows an 'Armstrong Trucking Co. Inc.' located in Port Huron Michigan.
Scott Haycock
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Re: A few reefers unloading produce in Chicago
Guy Wilber
Dennis wrote: “None of the lettering on the trucks is readable, or that would nail the city, at least.” Is it possible that the fully loaded truck has - - - - New Brighton painted on the door? Wild ass guess, but that might place the location as St. Paul/Minneapolis(?) Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada
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Re: stock car capacity
Drew Bunn
I’m in dire need of market ready plastic pigs for my stock pens, and I haven’t found a source. Any suggestions on where I can find them?Shapeways? Thingiverse? Miniprints? __________________________________ Drew Bunn drew.r.bunn@... Cell - (905) 483-0758 On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 7:33 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
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