|
Re: 2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car
Schuyler Larrabee
Further developments . . .
It seems some of the 36 kits distributed at Cocoa have the correct ends. Some do not. So before you simply decide you want new ends, please look at what is in your kit. You want the older style of 5/5 ends, with the small “darts” at the corners between the ribs.
The newer style supplied in at least some kits have a small rib between the larger ribs that extends all the way across the end.
Because I’d like to cover everyone, please let me know if you have the mistaken newer style OR if you have the correct older style with “darts.” IM’s stock is perhaps low and no need to simply do everybody just to be sure. Besides, they’ve been very generous already.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 10:36 PM To: shake-n-take@groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car
All,
A sharp-eyed participant in the Shake’n’Take project this year noticed that the ends supplied by Intermountain Railway Company are not the correct ends. The CAR is correct, but the ENDS are not. Evidently when the 36 kits they supplied for the Shake’n’Take clinic were packed the wrong ends were put in the kit boxes.
If you have finished the car with the supplied ends . . . I’m sorry. I’m REALLY sorry.
I intend to ask Intermountain to supply the correct ends, and assuming they will make good on this, I will mail out the correct ends to each participant. I retained the emails of those who signed up for the clinic, but if you have a kit and need the correct ends, I would appreciate your sending me OFF LIST your mailing address.
My deepest apologies for this SNAFU. I hope I can make it all right.
Schuyler Larrabee. |
|
|
|
Re: 2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car
Schuyler Larrabee
Some kits seem to have the correct end, the older style with “darts” between the ribs, and some have the more modern style. IM may not have enough, so please, Tony, look and see if you have that older style or the more modern, which is the error.
Thanks.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 11:53 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Shake'n'Take project - ERIE 95000 series double door box car
I haven't started my kit yet, so I would like to get those ends. Guess procrastination paid off for once! Tony Thompson
|
|
|
|
Re: ratios
Tony Thompson
George Courtney wrote: One problem for me is the question is the average may never have occurred on the section of prototype railroad I'm modeling . . . Good point, George. But the average is just a starting point, a framework for discussion, a global number that gives broad guidance. It seems to me that it would certainly be as wrong to model the exact average at all times, as it would be to ignore the average. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
|
|
|
Re: ratios
George Courtney
One problem for me is the question is the average may never have occurred on the section of prototype railroad I'm modeling. Areas near papermills might have larger numbers of pulpwood cars than near cotton fields for the same railroad. On any given day, the type and road name could vary. So someone modeling a 25 mile stretch on April 15th might have a very different mix for road names on April 25th of the same month and year.
Some do have collections of all the freight traffic on a given day. But then they are limited to modeling that day alone I would think. I note my stretch of line today is somedays mostly covered hoppers. Another day mostly gondolas. Yet another a mix of the three. There is onlys two businesses still be regularly switched as the traffic is mostly coal. Unless you have a list of actual cars switched it could greatly vary from average I'd be concerned. Still if if makes you happy, it's working. George Courtney |
|
|
|
Re: Kadee's new 1947 body style PS-1
Tim Meyer
I really like the Kadee flyer. It helps me understand the details better.
Tim Meyer |
|
|
|
Re: Hog Fuel
Tony Thompson
This is known to be an urban legend. Tony Thompson On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:21 AM, Lee Thwaits <leeoldsa@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Hog Fuel
Peter Ness
From the you say to-mah-to, I say to-may-toe Department; or If it walks like a duck and squawks like a duct…
Abridged from Wikipedia… The idea for what became duct tape came from Vesta Stoudt, an ordnance-factory worker and mother of two Navy sailors, who worried that problems with ammunition box seals would cost soldiers precious time in battle. She wrote to President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1943 with the idea to seal the boxes with a fabric tape, which she had tested at her factory. The letter was forwarded to the War Production Board, who put Johnson & Johnson on the job.[12] The Revolite division of Johnson & Johnson had made medical adhesive tapes from duck cloth from 1927 and a team headed by Revolite's Johnny Denoye and Johnson & Johnson's Bill Gross developed the new adhesive tape, designed to be ripped by hand, not cut with scissors. Their new unnamed product was made of thin cotton duck coated in waterproof polyethylene (plastic) with a layer of rubber-based gray adhesive bonded to one side. This tape, colored in army-standard matte olive drab, was nicknamed "duck tape" by soldiers. After the war, the duck tape product was sold in hardware stores for household repairs. The Melvin A. Anderson Company of Cleveland, Ohio, acquired the rights to the tape in 1950. It was commonly used in construction to wrap air ducts. Following this application, the name "duct tape" came into use in the 1950s, along with tape products that were colored silvery gray like tin ductwork. By 1960 a St. Louis, Missouri, HVAC company, Albert Arno, Inc., trademarked the name "Ductape" for their "flame-resistant" duct tape, capable of holding together at 350–400 °F (177–204 °C). In 1971, Jack Kahl bought the Anderson firm and renamed it Manco. In 1975, Kahl rebranded the duct tape made by his company. Because the previously used generic term "duck tape" had fallen out of use, he was able to trademark the brand "Duck Tape". According to etymologist Jan Freeman, the story that duct tape was originally called duck tape is "quack etymology" that has spread "due to the reach of the Internet and the appeal of a good story" but "remains a statement of faith, not fact." She notes that duct tape is not made from duck cloth and there is no known primary-source evidence that it was originally referred to as duck tape. Her research does not show any use of the phrase "duck tape" in World War II, and indicates that the earliest documented name for the adhesive product was "duct tape" in 1960. The phrase "duck tape" to refer to an adhesive product does not appear until the 1970s and was not popularized until the 1980s, after the Duck brand became successful and after the New York Times referred to and defined the product under the name "duct tape" in 1973. No matter, I agree that hog or hogged fuel has nothing to do with feeding pigs…or hogs for that matter.
And now we know that post-war modelers can ship a carload of duct…er…duck…er...TAPE in their consists! It was probably even used at post war logging mills.
Regards, Peter
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lee Thwaits
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:21 AM To: Jim <jimsabol@...>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Cc: Kelley Morris <exactscalekm@...>; Phil Everett <lazytwo@...>; Texas_Ted_Doyle <boomer@...>; Charles Morrill <badlands@...>; Charles Ricketts <cricket1225@...>; jim younkins <jcyounkins@...>; drew hiblar <afhiblar@...>; Nate Hiblar <natehiblar@...>; Tom Hiblar <thiblar@...>; Trevor Hiblar <hiblar@...>; John Glass <jglass213@...>; Scott Buckley <sbuckley54@...> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hog Fuel
The correct name is duck tape. It was developed in WWII to keep water primarily off ammunition but of coarse anything else it could be used on. Using it on ducts is more of a post WWII use. There is a brand named "Duck Tape". On 8/7/2018 10:37 PM, Jim wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Champ Sinclair decals
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 8/8/2018 8:15 AM, Allen
Montgomery via Groups.Io wrote:
Champ
also printed white lettering for ATSF engines. The excuse I
heard was they were for bleached out (heavy weathering)
silver/aluminum lettering. Most likely the same excuse for
the Sinclair tanks. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User SPROG User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
|
|
|
Re: ratios
Steve SANDIFER
As mentioned in the numerous discussions of this topic, there are a tremendous numbers of variables. During the war years, the mix of foreign was greater than during peace time. The mix in Pennsylvania will be very different from the mix in Texas during the same years.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 7:25 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ratios
Armand, Bruce, et al, In the Jan 1995 Mainline Modler there was an article by John Nehrich about freight car distribution and as part of that article he included a very interesting table dated April 1950 of Freight Operating Statistics of Large Steam Railways compiled by the Bureau of Transportation Economics & Statistics of the ICC. The list included 40 roads and the columns included Freight Cars on Line divided between Home and Foreign, Percent Bad Order, Road Locos on Line broken down into Unstored and Stored and Percent Bad Order. I have not run percentages of home vs foreign but in looking at the table it appears that some roads such as MILW, IC, MP, PRR, and UP had very close to a 50% ratio of home vs foreign cars while many others appeared to have either had a large ratios of home cars or conversly foreign cars. For modelers it seems to me that it depends on what road is being modeled as to what that ratio should be. For me modeling the Pennsy in 1949 in north central PA the 50-50 ratio means that house cars were probably in the 60-70% foreign range while open tops were more like 30% foreign but that is just a guess based on many assumptions about the nature of the traffic, nearby connections, and local industry any of which could easily be incorrect. But, IMO, you've got to start somewhere. It can always be changed if more information surfaces. Tony Wagner
On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:50 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Haha… my mail handler thought this was junk mail… maybe a message in that, eh Armand?
Maybe you’re forgetting because we haven’t had a discussion of this in the past few weeks to months, but it has come up here with frequency and our archives are full of information.
And you know, just a few days ago, I was looking into a much simpler stat… home road cars on home rails, since the accepted standard for the PRR was around 50%. However the data for Eastern Region in 1944, iirc, was in the mid 30% range and most importantly, the data for hopper cars was very similar to box cars and both were in the 30% range. That’s a huge difference from my expectations which were that hoppers would be about 75% home road. Now, that’s not strictly PRR, because it is the total for the entire region, but the PRR, as one of the biggest members of that region, should look pretty similar to the region numbers. I’m going to need a LOT more foreign hoppers!
Regards Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
|
|
|
|
Re: Hog Fuel
Lee Thwaits
The correct name is duck tape. It was developed in WWII to keep
water primarily off ammunition but of coarse anything else it could
be used on. Using it on ducts is more of a post WWII use. There is
a brand named "Duck Tape".
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 8/7/2018 10:37 PM, Jim wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Champ Sinclair decals
Allen Montgomery <sandbear75@...>
Here's a pic of a pic showing what you are looking for. There is no date on the photo, but there is an 800 in two tone grey paint out to the left, putting it no later than '54.
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 5:55:05 AM MST, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:
I believe never, Clark---- Silver was the color always associated with the large SINCLAIR stenciling. If otherwise, those decals are the only evidence I have ever seen. In Grove City, Penna. Mike Schleigh
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:09:20 AM EDT, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
Just noticed my set of Champ Sinclair tank car decals are white. If they are correct, what was the time period they were used?
Thanks!
Clark Propst
|
|
|
|
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] ratios
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Folks;
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I may be repeating myself, so bear with me: My analysis of PRR, P&LE, B&O, P&WV, Montour, McKeesport Connecting, Mon Con, Allegheny & South Side, PAM, P&OV and others in the Pittsburgh area, and extending outwards on mains and branches, for the time period between WW2 and late sixties revealed the following things: 1) Ratios do not apply there; 2) Traffic (therefore, car types), varies dramatically between every medium to large sized yard; i.e., between every major marshalling or classification yard, down to local "transfer" yards working blocks. 3) Some reaches of railroad are absolutely dominated by one car type (ask me for photos off-list if interested), based on customers served; 4) Every set-out/pick-up point influences the train consist thereafter, some very dramatically; 5) NYC strongly influences car type and ownership on the P&LE; 6) The "Alphabet" roads strongly influence car type and reporting marks on the P&WV (repeated NKP or WAB ownership and car type for example); 7) B&O is strongly influenced by lack of servicable cars during certain periods, and C&O influences; 8) PRR had dramatically different numbers of home road cars vs foreign, during periods very close to one another (think 40/60 to 60/40 over less than 5 years), very strong retirement and rebuilding campaign influences on classes and car types, and also showed significant presence of "favorite" (not as big as "partner") railroads. 9) Montour, McKCon, A&SS, PAM and P&OV are absolutely dominated by their major industry(ies). I am not talking just minor changes over time and space. I mean MAJOR differences over both time and location. Ratios have no place in that area during that time span. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels via Groups.Io Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:30 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] ratios One of the things that will skew those numbers of home road cars was the fact that the PRR was one of the largest coal and iron ore carriers in the country, and had a fleet of hopper cars literally second to none dedicated to this service. These cars were pretty much in captive service, so they alone would tend to skew the numbers of home road cars staying on home rails. Bill Daniels |
|
|
|
Re: ratios
Of course, I model 1944, and a fair amount of tidewater coal was being shipped to New England by rail because of the U-boat threat. On the PRR, “unit” trains of N&W hoppers would come up the Cumberland Valley Branch from Hagerstown Md to Harrisburg PA and then
move north and east on the A&S and Trenton cutoff. There was also substantial C&O hopper traffic over the PRR to the great lakes, even after WWII.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Regards Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
|
|
|
|
Re: ratios
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
One of the things that will skew those numbers of home road cars was the fact that the PRR was one of the largest coal and iron ore carriers in the country, and had a fleet of hopper cars literally second to none dedicated to this service. These cars were pretty much in captive service, so they alone would tend to skew the numbers of home road cars staying on home rails.
Bill Daniels |
|
|
|
Re: DECAL SAVER
Nelson Moyer
I just finished applying Speedwitch decals to a PRR gondola, and I used Micro Set rather than Micro Sol successfully without having to coat first with LDF. All of the decal pieces were small, and if they were bigger, e.g. Everywhere West on a CB&Q box car, I would have coated them first with LDF. Another thing with thin decals, place them accurately and don’t move them around very much. As to setting solution, a little dab will do until they dry, then go back as many times as necessary to settle them down and remove any air bubbles. I use Micro Sol once the first couple of Micro Set applications have dried. The text size on the repack and air reservoir data is very small, and I needed a 10x jeweler’s loop to read the dates.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 2:00 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DECAL SAVER
Some of the Speedwitch decals are on very thin film and the Microscale LDF to keep them in onepiece as well as with older Microscale decals. |
|
|
|
Re: Hog Fuel
Not saying this is wrong, since ground up bark can well be a part of “Hog Fuel”, but in mills I’ve visited ALL the “slash” (odd pieces of wood) produced in the cutting proccess is sent (usually by conveyors) to the “hog” to be ground up. Bark would be only a small fraction of the wood being ground up. Also many smaller mills did not have the bark-stripping water jets. On reason the logs were put in the ponds in the first place was to soak off the dirt and rocks lodged in the bark, and to loosen the bark. The floating logs (some sink) were also easier to move about and feed into the mill’s jackslip.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It is common for old log ponds and rivers to have many feet of rotting bark at their bottoms. It’s sometimes a problem when trying to backfill the ponds for redevelopment. The crud won’t support things built upon it. The solution is to either dredge out the material, or drive piles clear through it. With modern log-handling machinery ponds are hardly ever used anymore, and far more powerful mechanical "debarking” machinery is used. Dan Mitchell ==========
|
|
|
|
Re: Champ Sinclair decals
Schleigh Mike
I believe never, Clark---- Silver was the color always associated with the large SINCLAIR stenciling. If otherwise, those decals are the only evidence I have ever seen. In Grove City, Penna. Mike Schleigh
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 12:09:20 AM EDT, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
Just noticed my set of Champ Sinclair tank car decals are white. If they are correct, what was the time period they were used?
Thanks!
Clark Propst
|
|
|
|
Re: ratios
anthony wagner
Armand, Bruce, et al, In the Jan 1995 Mainline Modler there was an article by John Nehrich about freight car distribution and as part of that article he included a very interesting table dated April 1950 of Freight Operating Statistics of Large Steam Railways compiled by the Bureau of Transportation Economics & Statistics of the ICC. The list included 40 roads and the columns included Freight Cars on Line divided between Home and Foreign, Percent Bad Order, Road Locos on Line broken down into Unstored and Stored and Percent Bad Order. I have not run percentages of home vs foreign but in looking at the table it appears that some roads such as MILW, IC, MP, PRR, and UP had very close to a 50% ratio of home vs foreign cars while many others appeared to have either had a large ratios of home cars or conversly foreign cars. For modelers it seems to me that it depends on what road is being modeled as to what that ratio should be. For me modeling the Pennsy in 1949 in north central PA the 50-50 ratio means that house cars were probably in the 60-70% foreign range while open tops were more like 30% foreign but that is just a guess based on many assumptions about the nature of the traffic, nearby connections, and local industry any of which could easily be incorrect. But, IMO, you've got to start somewhere. It can always be changed if more information surfaces. Tony Wagner On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:50 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Haha… my mail handler thought this was junk mail… maybe a message in that, eh Armand?
Maybe you’re forgetting because we haven’t had a discussion of this in the past few weeks to months, but it has come up here with frequency and our archives are full of information.
And you know, just a few days ago, I was looking into a much simpler stat… home road cars on home rails, since the accepted standard for the PRR was around 50%. However the data for Eastern Region in 1944, iirc, was in the mid 30% range and most
importantly, the data for hopper cars was very similar to box cars and both were in the 30% range. That’s a huge difference from my expectations which were that hoppers would be about 75% home road. Now, that’s not strictly PRR, because it is the total for
the entire region, but the PRR, as one of the biggest members of that region, should look pretty similar to the region numbers. I’m going to need a LOT more foreign hoppers!
Regards
Bruce
Bruce
F. Smith
Auburn,
AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
|
|
|
|
Re: Hog Fuel
Jim Sabol
The hogger is that part of the mill’s jackslip (the approach from the log pond to the saw carriage in the mill interior) which shoots water at great force onto the entering log in order to dislodge rocks, spikes, and other debris caught in the bark that wpuld be harmful to the sawblades. The bark thus dislodged is therefore, “hogged” and, in some mills, provides fuel for the boilers. The more finely chopped bark is also used by landscapers and ranchers to improve footing in muddy areas. Most speakers drop the “ed” resulting in the half-term, hog fuel, just as some persons hear “duck” tape for duct tape. Neither hog fuel nor hogged fuel has anything to do with feeding pigs. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
|
|
|
|
Champ Sinclair decals
Clark Propst
Just noticed my set of Champ Sinclair tank car decals are white. If they are correct, what was the time period they were used?
Thanks!
Clark Propst |
|
|