Date   

RH WP 50' DD SS box car

Clark Propst
 

Today I picked up a Roundhouse WP 50' DD SS box car 12147 at a train show. I know there was a Blog post about these cars on the RCW site. It's for a car with an auto door. Did the WP have cars without and if so would their appearance be like the one on the auto doored car?

As always Thanks!

Clark Propst


Nice to have you back, Jared!

Andy Carlson
 

Jared-
Seeing you posting again, and making plans for Cocoa Beach tells me that you are well on the road to recovery. Welcome back!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






Re: Dump cars

Jared Harper
 

I have an official Santa Fe record book that lists cars and their contents in and out of Eskridge and Hessdale on Santa Fe Alma, KS, branch.  The contents of one car I recall was sand for stock bedding.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA



---In STMFC@..., <steve.sandifer@...> wrote :

I have an 8mm movie circa 1958 of a mixed train on the ATSF with an air dump behind the engine. When it came to a particular spot, they uncoupled the rest of the train, pulled up onto an embankment, and dumped the rip-rap. Then they backed onto the train and continued on their way. I also have copies of orders from John Moore collection where air dumps of sand were delivered to stock pens along the Pawhuska branch for bedding the stock cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Dump cars

 

 

On the Santa Fe, we moved a lot of ballast and riprap in addition to dirt.

Larry Buell


Re: Cocoa Beach Ride from Orlando and back

Jared Harper
 

Spen,

I would definitely be interested.  I haven't worked out my flight schedule yet from Atlanta to Orlando and won't be able to until the middle of next week.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


---In STMFC@..., <spninetynine@...> wrote :

I have a rental car reserved from Orlando Airport to get to Cocoa Beach

and back and would be happy to offer a ride to one or two passengers
either or both ways.

I arrive at Orlando on Thursday at 4z;15 PM (Southwest #6039 from Denver).

I need to be back at the airport by noon on Sunday (I could be persuaded
to get there a little earlier.)

Spen Kellogg


Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Greg Martin
 

Jeff and all,

Let's try to make this simple.

Switching agreements between railroads aka switch limits is not uncommon, this industry had them, Bakersfield, CA had them, Chicago has them. As I recall Bakersfield was based on a two year agreement. The agreements are business driven and locally political. IF one railroad wants one the other wants a trade off and that can be costly. The lines don't even have to be connected.

Reciprocal agreements were agreements that when an origin railroad furnished a car to the reciprocal industry the car did not incur interchange switch charges or should I say limited switch charges that were absorbed by the interchanging carrier not by the industry. The car marks made no difference IF the loaded car was headed to the interchanging carriers ONLINE industry. IF and car (regardless of marks) were to be handed off to a foreign road via interchange then the mandated (ICC) switch charges would apply.

Just because and industry or switch limits were reciprocal it didn't mean it was free of charges.

We here in Salem, OR we are reciprocal to the BN/BNSF and the SP/UP and there is a reciprocal switch charge ($135).

At one point Cascade Warehouse added a Cold Storage company and we had set the facility for a spur. The BNSF wanted the facility to be closed and a fight ensued between the BNSF, Cascade Warehouse, the city of Salem and Oregon state. We were urged by the state to not sign the agreement as they felt that it would have a cascading effect all along the OE from Eugene to Salem. We didn't and to this day there is no spur in place.

Greg Martin


Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop
In a message dated 12/1/2017 10:19:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

 

Thanks Allen.  I'm still trying to figure out how the cars owned by the railroad that wasn't switching the mine were handled.

Jeff White                                                                                                     Alma IL


On 11/30/2017 9:52 PM, Allen Rueter allen_282@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Jeff
  search for "coal report of illinois"1955 at babel.hathitrust.org
It does show mines served by more than one railroad.

Do you know of any coal tariffs for the IC or CB&Q?

-- Allen Rueter St Louis MO



Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Jeffrey White
 

Thank you Andy! That helps a lot. I model Centralia, IL in 1955.  Both the IC and the CB&Q had large operations there to support the Southern Illinois coal mines. This explains the large yards that both railroads maintained there.

Several mines were served by four railroads.  For example, Old Ben Coal Company #14 was served by the CB&Q, IC, Mopac and C&EI. The railroads had a reciprocal switching agreement in which the railroads each switched the mine for one year.  So if the IC or CB&Q was switching the mine in 1955, all of the cars from that mine would have come to Centralia where they were forwarded to the home road at a normal interchange? And empties from those roads would go to Centralia to be forwarded to the mine? 

Jeff White                                                                                                   Alma, IL


On 12/2/2017 10:51 AM, andy.laurent@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Jeff,

As one who deals with reciprocal switching in 1:1 on a regular basis, I will try to shed some light on this topic (often one of the most confusing for the shipping, and general, public):  Reciprocal switching allows 'commercial' access to a facility, from the closest interchange with the other railroad (most often called a line-haul carrier).  The switch carrier physically moves the freight cars from the interchange with the line-haul railroad, and spots them at the customer.  When the car is ready, the customer can submit billing (bill of lading - loaded or empty, depending on industry) to the switch carrier or the line-haul carrier and the railroads take it from there (switch carrier pulls car from industry, delivers it to interchange with the line-haul carrier where it goes on about its journey).

Reciprocal switching is allowed purely by the actual serving railroad, or by ICC/STB action.  It is usually confined to the limits of the 'switching district' for a given station (some were confined to a small rural town with an interchange; Chicago's was over 70 miles around). It is often done for the benefit of the shipper to get them access to more than one origin carrier.  In the pre-Staggers days, rates were equalized between 2 points, the only variation was the route/railroads involved (and their associated freight revenue divisions).  Post-Staggers, each route could have a different freight rate. 

Andy L.
Cedar Rapids, IA


Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Andy Laurent
 

Jeff,
As one who deals with reciprocal switching in 1:1 on a regular basis, I will try to shed some light on this topic (often one of the most confusing for the shipping, and general, public):  Reciprocal switching allows 'commercial' access to a facility, from the closest interchange with the other railroad (most often called a line-haul carrier).  The switch carrier physically moves the freight cars from the interchange with the line-haul railroad, and spots them at the customer.  When the car is ready, the customer can submit billing (bill of lading - loaded or empty, depending on industry) to the switch carrier or the line-haul carrier and the railroads take it from there (switch carrier pulls car from industry, delivers it to interchange with the line-haul carrier where it goes on about its journey).

Reciprocal switching is allowed purely by the actual serving railroad, or by ICC/STB action.  It is usually confined to the limits of the 'switching district' for a given station (some were confined to a small rural town with an interchange; Chicago's was over 70 miles around). It is often done for the benefit of the shipper to get them access to more than one origin carrier.  In the pre-Staggers days, rates were equalized between 2 points, the only variation was the route/railroads involved (and their associated freight revenue divisions).  Post-Staggers, each route could have a different freight rate. 

Andy L.
Cedar Rapids, IA


brass freight cars on Ebay

Tim O'Connor
 

W&R Rio Grande 47 foot, 70 ton general service gondola
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322917251383

Challenger Great Northern express refrigerator car, painted Empire Builder
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322917274595

All my auctions can be found here
https://www.ebay.com/sch/timothyoconnor/m.html

Thanks!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Hatched Stock Car

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <SUVCWORR@...> wrote :

Feed troughs. 

Rich Orr
=======================

Jeff, 
Early in the twentieth century, before the "hog law" (the real one, the one that put a limit on the number of hours livestock could be kept in the cars) there was a whole spate of patented "humane" stockcars with provisions to feed and water the stock in the cars. They all became obsolete after the time stock could be confined was limited.

Dennis Stoezek


Re: Hatched Stock Car

Douglas Harding
 

Jeff those boxes were designed to hold feed and hay. Before the 1906 Livestock 28 hr law many railroads attempted to feed and water livestock while in transit and thus needed a way to carry supplies of feed. The passage of the 28 hr law, requiring unloading, feed & rest every 28 hrs, eliminated any attempts by the railroads to feed while in transit. Prior to that there were many stockcar designs with feed bunks, water troughs, etc built into stockcars in attempts to provide humane transportation. The CNW had quite a few of these early car designs. The CNWHS has another photo showing the side of CNW 89161 with the metal water troughs clearly visible. They were built into the side of the car and designed to swivel so they could dump/empty.

 

The doors on the end are more difficult. In early years they no doubt were intended for the passage of livestock care takers, esp before 1906 when feeding in transit was attempted. But it was dangerous to be in a loaded moving car. So I imagine the doors were then used only when standing still, perhaps to enter from the end of the car for the purpose of prodding animals to leave the car. In later years these doors were also handy for loading/unloading extremely long items like lumber or poles. The lumber was still loaded through the large side door, the end door was an opening to stick the end of the board through so it could be drawn back past the side door in a reverse move. The two doors can be seen on single deck cars.

 

I cannot help with the term “special”. It can been seen on a variety of stockcars.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Hatched Stock Car

Steve SANDIFER
 

Those are either Palace cars or rack cars. Either way they carry feed and water so the animals did not have to be stopped for rest and water. Did not work out well, so discontinued in the early 1900s.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 10:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Hatched Stock Car

 

 

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Re: Hatched Stock Car

suvcworr <SUVCWORR@...>
 

Feed troughs. 

Rich Orr



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Jeff Eggert' ophoto@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 12/1/17 23:16 (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Hatched Stock Car

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Hatched Stock Car

Jeff Eggert
 

Curious as to what the long rectangular hatch-like structures are for on the roofs of the stock cars in this photo from the CNWHS Archives.  End car appears to be CNW 17051 built 1907 by Haskell & Barker.  A similar looking car CNW 18735 built 1926 by Illinois Car & Manufacturing Co. says “Special Stock” on the upper right panel.  End doors leads me to guess this is a double deck car.   I am are not sure what the term special stock stands for either.

 

https://www.facebook.com/196429967120072/photos/a.869904963105899.1073741826.196429967120072/1493712130725176/?type=3&theater

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Jeff Eggert


Re: Santa Fe Reefer Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

1956 photo SFRD 33475 (Rr-25) has a Morton rb
1965 photo SFRD 10356 (Rr-46) has a metal rb (can't identify)

^ these are the only two SWING DOOR SFRD reefers I've seen with metal
running boards

Tim O'Connor



I recently picked up an etched Transco running board for a Santa Fe Rr32 reefer. When these cars were initially rebuilt they came with a wood running board.  Does anyone know when the wood might have been replaced?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Psrdie


Santa Fe Reefer Question

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


I recently picked up an etched 
Transco running board for a Santa Fe Rr32 reefer. When these cars were initially rebuilt they came with a wood running board.  Does anyone know when the wood might have been replaced?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Psrdie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: Dump cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

I have an 8mm movie circa 1958 of a mixed train on the ATSF with an air dump behind the engine. When it came to a particular spot, they uncoupled the rest of the train, pulled up onto an embankment, and dumped the rip-rap. Then they backed onto the train and continued on their way. I also have copies of orders from John Moore collection where air dumps of sand were delivered to stock pens along the Pawhuska branch for bedding the stock cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Dump cars

 

 

On the Santa Fe, we moved a lot of ballast and riprap in addition to dirt.

Larry Buell


Re: B&O 3086 hopper

Jim Mischke
 

I have this photo, it was taken by the late Paul Dunn in his hometown Zanesville, Ohio during 1955.  Car is a leased CNJ nine panel ribbed twin hopper, freshly repainted in B&O lettering.  Billboard "B&O" with large ampersand was superseded that year by a small ampersand.


This car was in the second leased CNJ hopper group, from 1955-1961.  Lease lasted about five years, all cars returned to CNJ by late 1961.  The lease was five years long, it took time to locate and pull them all from B&O service, some cars straggled on B&O property for a little longer than five years due to these logistics.   Some returned hoppers were relettered CNJ and returned to service, most not due to age and condition.


Re: Reciprocal Switching Agreements

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

Q: Was coal from mine to offsite washing/crushing plant to end customer in any way similar to grain storage to flour mill to end customer? IIRC there were either special tariffs or waybills for the later.


       It would fit the definition of an in-transit processing, but unless the tariffs for coal before and after washing are significantly different, there would be no advantage. But I don't know for sure.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Dump cars

Larry Buell
 

On the Santa Fe, we moved a lot of ballast and riprap in addition to dirt.

Larry Buell


Re: LV Oak Island Yard 1939

Layout Tour
 

Ben & Claus

If you click on the photo, Shorpy gives credit to the photographer Arthur Rothstein and the Farm Security Administration, but they don’t mention that it’s available for free from the Library of Congress or the link to it which I wasn’t aware of.  Thanks for that link.

Chuck Davis