Date   

Re: now - GN 3000 series boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich

Ah so! But things get more interesting --

The Red Caboose model CORRECTED the door opening. The Front Range door opening is
actually 7-9 rather than 8-0. And the Front Range doors are 8-0 which is also incorrect, while
the Red Caboose doors are 8-3 which is better, for covering the Red Caboose 8-0 opening.

Obviously, larger opening = narrower side panel.

Front Range also made two 40 foot combination door box cars with offset doors so these are
worth looking at for modeling double door prototypes.

BUT the FR doors span a distance on the side of 14-9. The plugdoor (cast in place) in this case
is 6-9 -- a number Fred Becker chose because he already had the 8-0 sliding doors! But the kit
also includes 8-0 plug doors in case you want to model a 40 foot double plug door box. Of course,
8-0 is technically incorrect for an 8-0 plug door since the nominal width of the plug door refers to
the opening and not to the extreme width of the door, which is larger than the opening (typically 8-3
or so for an 8-0 opening).

:-)


On 7/17/2022 8:23 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

Tim,

 

Red Caboose must have made more significant changes to the tooling.  The Front Range 8’ door car had somewhat narrower panel sizes than the Red Caboose version of the car, so the Front Range cars look better than the Red Caboose version as a double door boxcar.  In the attached photo you can see the Front Range car on top and the Red Caboose car below.  The side panels closest to the doors on the Red Caboose car are much narrower than on the Front Range car.  A have also noticed that the sides are much thicker on the Front Range cars than the Red Caboose version.

 

I am building one of the cars using the Front Range body.  I will use the roof, underframe, and ladders, etc. from my 8’ door Red Caboose car, since the body isn’t correct anyway.  The underframe will need to be slightly narrowed and shim added to bring up the height. 

 

I will also build one of the cars from a Branchline kit. 

 

After all of this, modeling the 3500 series is really fairly simple, trim the side sills from the McKean/Accurail car and add an overhanging diagonal panel roof.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

_._,_._,

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Branchline NWX Reefer

radiodial868
 

That is a brave color scheme to tackle, and then to have it come out so well. Hats off!
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Northern Pacific Automobile Box Car NP 8029

radiodial868
 

That is one interesting looking car. From the A end tiny lumber door to the B end Miner hand brake and everything in between.  NP lived in its own world.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Used and new Floquil

mopacfirst
 

I have approximately 100 used and new bottles of Floquil and Polly-S paints that I would like to pass along.  I'm located in Houston, Texas.  I know several people on this and other lists who could use this.  Please let me know your interest.  With proper packing, I'm sure I can ship this material.

Reply OFF-LIST to mopacfirst at gmail dot com.  

Ron Merrick


Re: Branchline NWX Reefer

Paul Doggett
 

Bob
You made a great job of that car.
Paul Doggett 


On 18 Jul 2022, at 00:35, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Wowzer Bob, you and Charlie set the bar awfully high
Good looking build 
Fenton 


On Jul 17, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Charlie Duckworth via groups.io <Worth51@...> wrote:

Bob
Great looking model!  Glad I helped to breakup that sea of red. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: UTLX Class X Tank Car Build

Dave Parker
 

On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 03:28 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Large numbers
of 8,000 gallon and lesser numbers of 10,000 gallon tank cars ARA III/ICC103 were predominant
for petroleum transport (the predominant tank car cargo) for several decades.
It would be helpful to know which "several decades" this generalization is being applied to, as well as its basis.  Thanks to Steve's book, we know exactly how many class V, X and X-3 cars UTLX acquired between 1901 and 1937.  The 10,000-gal  cars outnumbered the 8000s by about 4.5 to 1.  Even the 6000/6500-gal cars outnumbered the 8000s by about 2.5 to 1, with the latter only accounting for 12% of the total.
 
Given the overall size of the UTLX fleet (35,000+ cars from 1930 to 1945), I am curious to know which other fleets were sufficiently dominated by 8000-gal cars to effect the shift to a dominance of that size.  And where the supporting data can be found.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: UTLX Class X Tank Car Build

Steve and Barb Hile
 

At least the first car in this sequence is a UTLX X-3 10000 gallon tank, like the coming Rapido model.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 5:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX Class X Tank Car Build

 


I dunno, Bruce. As in most things, I think it 'depends' on what is being modeled. Large numbers
of 8,000 gallon and lesser numbers of 10,000 gallon tank cars ARA III/ICC103 were predominant
for petroleum transport (the predominant tank car cargo) for several decades.

Tim O'Connor

On 7/17/2022 5:34 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:



Bottom line? For the purposes of this list, trains of tank cars should resemble trains of boxcars, with a stairstep effect (albeit perhaps more subtle) due to the variety of cars in service.



Regards,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

David
 

I believe this one is a windup shaft-style lever handbrake, using horizontal action rather than a up-down action. There is no evidence of any chain or pull link running up to the lever.

David Thompson


Re: General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Kenneth Montero
 

Bruce,

Thank you. Since it was mounted on around post, I did not know if it had a mechanism that rotated the post, as would be the case if a brake wheel was attached.

Ken Montero

On 07/17/2022 9:07 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Ken,

That a lever handbrake, and it works just like every other lever handbrake. Lift up the lever, push or pull to tighten the attached brake chain. A ratchet mechanism allows the tension to be maintained, and to cycle the lever action.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 7:47 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Can anyone describe the "brake wheel" mechanism on GPCX 259? How did it work?

Ken Montero

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: 07/17/2022 4:45 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] General Petroleum Tank Cars


Besides building new freight cars Pacific Car & Foundry also rebuilt numerous cars. In 1927 they cleaned and painted 5 tank cars for General Petroleum in Seattle. Here are photos of GPCX 203 and 259. Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive Collection.

Richard Wilkens


Re: General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Bruce Smith
 

Ken,

That a lever handbrake, and it works just like every other lever handbrake. Lift up the lever, push or pull to tighten the attached brake chain. A ratchet mechanism allows the tension to be maintained, and to cycle the lever action.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 7:47 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Can anyone describe the "brake wheel" mechanism on GPCX 259? How did it work?

Ken Montero

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: 07/17/2022 4:45 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] General Petroleum Tank Cars


Besides building new freight cars Pacific Car & Foundry also rebuilt numerous cars. In 1927 they cleaned and painted 5 tank cars for General Petroleum in Seattle. Here are photos of GPCX 203 and 259. Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive Collection.

Richard Wilkens


Re: Northern Pacific Automobile Box Car NP 8029

Robert kirkham
 

Interesting car and interesting what the photos reveal about it.   I was struck by the heavy demarcation between boards the side sheathing of this car.   The three quarter angle view is particularly revealing as I think it shows that the edges of the boards were bevelled - similar to some vertical siding.  I'd be interested to know if this is unusual for NP cars, or not.

Rob Kirkham 


General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Kenneth Montero
 

Can anyone describe the "brake wheel" mechanism on GPCX 259? How did it work?

Ken Montero

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: 07/17/2022 4:45 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] General Petroleum Tank Cars


Besides building new freight cars Pacific Car & Foundry also rebuilt numerous cars. In 1927 they cleaned and painted 5 tank cars for General Petroleum in Seattle. Here are photos of GPCX 203 and 259. Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive Collection.

Richard Wilkens


Re: now - GN 3000 series boxcars

Richard Remiarz
 

Tim,

 

Red Caboose must have made more significant changes to the tooling.  The Front Range 8’ door car had somewhat narrower panel sizes than the Red Caboose version of the car, so the Front Range cars look better than the Red Caboose version as a double door boxcar.  In the attached photo you can see the Front Range car on top and the Red Caboose car below.  The side panels closest to the doors on the Red Caboose car are much narrower than on the Front Range car.  A have also noticed that the sides are much thicker on the Front Range cars than the Red Caboose version.

 

I am building one of the cars using the Front Range body.  I will use the roof, underframe, and ladders, etc. from my 8’ door Red Caboose car, since the body isn’t correct anyway.  The underframe will need to be slightly narrowed and shim added to bring up the height. 

 

I will also build one of the cars from a Branchline kit. 

 

After all of this, modeling the 3500 series is really fairly simple, trim the side sills from the McKean/Accurail car and add an overhanging diagonal panel roof.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 5:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] McKean-Accurail box car (was UP 40' Double door automobile car)

 

Rich

Oh, WOW, I never noticed that !! Yes, the panel sizes are incorrect on the Red Caboose 8 foot door cars
because the original Front Range tooling had the wrong panel sizes ! When Bill McClung redid the kit he may
not have known about this mistake. Other confirmation is that the underframe crossbars are spaced for a
6 foot door, not an 8 foot door -- So Front Range (Fred Becker's) legacy of errors and shortcuts continues
to screw us! :-D

Branchline is the best choice, then. I'd check the Branchline underframe crossbearers to see if BLT made a
correct underframe for the 8 foot doors, or if they also just re-used the underframe from a 6 foot door model.

OR we could use the Red Caboose -welded- side 8 foot door cars, and add Archer rivets at the appropriate
locations. 8-)

Tim O'Connor

On 7/17/2022 3:34 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

I just looked again, and did find a Red Caboose 8700 series kit unbuilt.  Maybe this says something about having too many unbuilt kits. 

 

Attached are photos of the Branchline doors with the Red Caboose car.  I don’t like this option.  This option results in very narrow side panels on each side of the door.  It looks like Red Caboose took the tooling for a side with a 6’ door and simply widened the door opening.  The panels on each side of the door are much narrower than the remaining panels on the sides.  The kit does include a nice diagonal panel roof a much nicer parts.  However, this particular version looks like the ends are the same as the Front Range ends.  I think I will use the roof and detail parts from this kit with the Front Range body to make one of the cars and the Branchline kit to make another car.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


Re: Branchline NWX Reefer

O Fenton Wells
 

Wowzer Bob, you and Charlie set the bar awfully high
Good looking build 
Fenton 


On Jul 17, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Charlie Duckworth via groups.io <Worth51@...> wrote:

Bob
Great looking model!  Glad I helped to breakup that sea of red. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Branchline NWX Reefer

Charlie Duckworth
 

Bob
Great looking model!  Glad I helped to breakup that sea of red. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Branchline NWX Reefer

Bob Chapman
 

First, a shout-out to Charlie Duckworth for his recent post and fine modeling of the BL NWX reefer. With a stash totally bare of unbuilt resin kits and a layout already overpopulated with red boxcars, Charlie's model was perfect inspiration for a next project, and his off-line tips were a big help in making the project happen.

BL's styrene kit is an excellent representation of the NWX prototype, and the model was built mostly following the kit instructions, with a few exceptions. Wire hardware replaced the molded parts, and an AB brake system replaced the Type K. 

I learned that painting and lettering in the NWX scheme is not for the faint-hearted -- lots of color separations, and the outstanding Oddballs decals are among the thinnest I have ever experienced.    

Thanks, Charlie!
Bob Chapman


Case Threshing Machine Co. Flat Car 503

Richard Wilkens
 

Here is a car I have not seen before, Case Threshing Machine Co. flat car No. 503. This photo was taken around April 1924 after Pacific Car & Foundry had built 3' gauge box car No. 1202 for the Pacific Coast Railway in California. Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive Collection.

Richard Wilkens


Red Caboose killer-was McKean-Accurail box car (

Andy Carlson
 

Bill did not own Red Caboose. He ran it for a non-involved owner whose directions to Bill was simply "don't lose money". When that rule came across these losses RC was bleeding, the decision to cut bait resulted in the sell of RC to Intermountain. Bill went to work for awhile as a sales person at IM until his decision to retire and move to Crescent City, CA.

It was hot today, 97 degrees I am told. I spent most of the day indoors, other than the earlier bike ride to the farmers market, done before it got too hot.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 03:24:13 PM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Andy

OMG it wasn't the trucks so much as the wheel sets! I'm fairly sure those also were a Front Range
legacy, since I have some Front Range kits with those horrible metal wheel trucks (which were in a
small "kit" package in the car kit that you had to assemble - or just throw out).

However, the box cars were followed by the coil gondolas (STMFC folks may be unaware) which
were fabulous models, and sold very well as far as I know. Also didn't the Red Caboose Harriman
stock cars come out after the box cars as well?

I think Bill went to work for Intermountain so I guess it all worked out in the end. :-)

Tim

On 7/17/2022 5:08 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Bill told me that the economic hit the on-the-ropes Red Caboose got was from the money spent upgrading the former Front Range 40' box cars. The sales were way below expectations and I would wager that parts for these cars still lanquish in Intermountain's storage. Can't blame all of RC's problems on the FR boxcars though, a lot of the blame falls onto the 57' mechanical PFE Reefer, the R-70-15. Nice car with truck problems, this project was a bullet to the heart for RC.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 11:16:29 AM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Rich

Yet ANOTHER way is to use the much improved Front Range 4070 box car kits from Red Caboose,
kit # RC-8700. These have vastly improved roofs, doors, underframes, ladders, you name it. The tooling is
now owned by Intermountain, but I don't know if they still offer these fine box car models. :-)



On 7/17/2022 1:27 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

Another way of building the 3000-3499 series is using the Front Range 4070 boxcar kits.  These also had an 8’ door, resulting in narrower panels.  As Andy said, putting an 8’ and 7’ door on the McKean/Accurail car results in narrow side panels on either side of the doors.

 

Rich Remiarz



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: UTLX Class X Tank Car Build

Tim O'Connor
 


I dunno, Bruce. As in most things, I think it 'depends' on what is being modeled. Large numbers
of 8,000 gallon and lesser numbers of 10,000 gallon tank cars ARA III/ICC103 were predominant
for petroleum transport (the predominant tank car cargo) for several decades.

Tim O'Connor

On 7/17/2022 5:34 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:


Bottom line? For the purposes of this list, trains of tank cars should resemble trains of boxcars, with a stairstep effect (albeit perhaps more subtle) due to the variety of cars in service.

Regards,
Bruce Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Red Caboose killer-was McKean-Accurail box car (

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

OMG it wasn't the trucks so much as the wheel sets! I'm fairly sure those also were a Front Range
legacy, since I have some Front Range kits with those horrible metal wheel trucks (which were in a
small "kit" package in the car kit that you had to assemble - or just throw out).

However, the box cars were followed by the coil gondolas (STMFC folks may be unaware) which
were fabulous models, and sold very well as far as I know. Also didn't the Red Caboose Harriman
stock cars come out after the box cars as well?

I think Bill went to work for Intermountain so I guess it all worked out in the end. :-)

Tim

On 7/17/2022 5:08 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

Bill told me that the economic hit the on-the-ropes Red Caboose got was from the money spent upgrading the former Front Range 40' box cars. The sales were way below expectations and I would wager that parts for these cars still lanquish in Intermountain's storage. Can't blame all of RC's problems on the FR boxcars though, a lot of the blame falls onto the 57' mechanical PFE Reefer, the R-70-15. Nice car with truck problems, this project was a bullet to the heart for RC.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 11:16:29 AM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Rich

Yet ANOTHER way is to use the much improved Front Range 4070 box car kits from Red Caboose,
kit # RC-8700. These have vastly improved roofs, doors, underframes, ladders, you name it. The tooling is
now owned by Intermountain, but I don't know if they still offer these fine box car models. :-)



On 7/17/2022 1:27 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

Another way of building the 3000-3499 series is using the Front Range 4070 boxcar kits.  These also had an 8’ door, resulting in narrower panels.  As Andy said, putting an 8’ and 7’ door on the McKean/Accurail car results in narrow side panels on either side of the doors.

 

Rich Remiarz



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

4561 - 4580 of 198533