Date   

Amarillo Railroad Museum FW&D Covered Hopper

gary laakso
 

The two models arrived and are visual delights, though unlike the InterMountain CB&Q version of these covered hoppers, the roof is not black.  The wonderful article by Ed Hawkins about these cars in the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Volume 30 , describes these covered hoppers: “The sides, ends. Slope sheets and AB brake parts received miner red paint.  Black car cement was applied to the roof, hopper bottoms and outlets.  The trucks were also black. “  p.97

 

Any suggestions for a Tru Color black to represent black car cement?

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

 

 


Re: T&P 40380

O Fenton Wells
 

It looks good. My go to guy for ACL and SAL is John Golden. He recommends Scale coat II PRR red for ACL and Boxcar red for SAL. 
Good job. 
Fenton 


On Jul 18, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:



Fenton,

 

I am happy with the color.  I think it matches the photos people sent fairly well.  RPCYC volume 3 suggested a 50:50 mixture of Accupaint Oxide Brown and Rich Oxide Brown.  It also suggested Rich Oxide Brown for ACL cars.  I had some Oxide Brown but couldn’t find any Rich Oxide Brown.  I decided to substitute with TruColor ACL Freight Car Brown. 

 

I like the contrast the black ends give on the rebuilt cars. 

 

Thanks for the photo you sent. 

 

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 3:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] T&P 40380

 

Well done Rich, Are you satisfied with the color?  It looks good to me

Fenton

 

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:54 PM Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:

Just over five weeks ago I posted a question about what color to paint a Texas & Pacific boxcar.  A number of you sent me color photos of the cars and additional information.  I was finishing a model of a 1937 T&P AAR boxcar.  These cars were built with Youngstown doors equipped with Union Duplex fixtures.  I had purchased a National Scale Car Union Duplex mini-kit to use on this car.  

 

After receiving all of the photos I realized that the cars were rebuilt in the 1950’s, with the doors being replaces with welded Superior doors (but no Union Duplex fixtures).  The side sills were extended on the right side of the door.  Also, steel running boards and brake steps were added.  I don’t know if all of the cars were rebuilt, but every photo I saw of the cars in the 1950s had these changes.  The result is I had to rework some of my model.  I have finally finished my model of the car. 

 

I decided to model #40380 since the side sill was lengthened a shorter distance on this car.  I shortened a Southwest Scale Models FC-650 door.  I added Proto 2000 National B-1 trucks with Intermountain 0.088" wheelsets and Kadee 442 brake pads.  I mounted the brake reservoir transversely and used a Detail Associates brake set reservoir and brake cylinder.  I used Yarmouth Model Works YMW 201 sill steps, YMW 403 brake levers, and YMW 507 Cut Lever Brackets.  Kadee 2250 Side Grab Irons, a Kadee 131 Ajax Brake Wheel, and Kadee 2001 ApeX 40' Running Board were used along with a Plano 131 Apex brake platform.   Other detail parts included Tichy 3021 18" straight grab irons, Tangent TSM 203 Coupler Lift Bars, and Hi-Tech Details 6040 air hoses and brackets.  I used the decals from the National Scale Car mini-kit.  The door and fixtures in the mini-kit will be used on a Southern Pacific boxcar instead.  I used a 50:50 mixture of Accupaint AP-12 Oxide Brown and TruColor TCP-192 ACL 1944-60s Freight Car Brown for the sides and the roof.  The underframe and ends were painted with TruColor TCP-010 Black.  Pan Pastels were used to weather the car, then Speedwitch chalk marks were added.

 

Thank you to everyone that provided information on these cars.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

 


Re: Northern Pacific Automobile Box Car NP 8029

Robert kirkham
 

I'm not sure if it is beaded siding or something else.  Describing what I see in the builders photo, I'd say the appearance is something like the vertical siding with the milled centre groove used on some reefers.  (Is that the kind of beaded siding you're referring to Tim?). In any event, the drawing and the in-service photo don't show these characteristics.  Changed siding over time wouldn't surprise anyone, but the drawing throws that notion into question.  Meanwhile, closer scrutiny of the car side lettering in the 3/4 angle shot does not have subtle dips and jogs as one might expect with a "v" groove pattern. 

Rob 


Re: T&P 40380

Richard Remiarz
 

Fenton,

 

I am happy with the color.  I think it matches the photos people sent fairly well.  RPCYC volume 3 suggested a 50:50 mixture of Accupaint Oxide Brown and Rich Oxide Brown.  It also suggested Rich Oxide Brown for ACL cars.  I had some Oxide Brown but couldn’t find any Rich Oxide Brown.  I decided to substitute with TruColor ACL Freight Car Brown. 

 

I like the contrast the black ends give on the rebuilt cars. 

 

Thanks for the photo you sent. 

 

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 3:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] T&P 40380

 

Well done Rich, Are you satisfied with the color?  It looks good to me

Fenton

 

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:54 PM Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:

Just over five weeks ago I posted a question about what color to paint a Texas & Pacific boxcar.  A number of you sent me color photos of the cars and additional information.  I was finishing a model of a 1937 T&P AAR boxcar.  These cars were built with Youngstown doors equipped with Union Duplex fixtures.  I had purchased a National Scale Car Union Duplex mini-kit to use on this car.  

 

After receiving all of the photos I realized that the cars were rebuilt in the 1950’s, with the doors being replaces with welded Superior doors (but no Union Duplex fixtures).  The side sills were extended on the right side of the door.  Also, steel running boards and brake steps were added.  I don’t know if all of the cars were rebuilt, but every photo I saw of the cars in the 1950s had these changes.  The result is I had to rework some of my model.  I have finally finished my model of the car. 

 

I decided to model #40380 since the side sill was lengthened a shorter distance on this car.  I shortened a Southwest Scale Models FC-650 door.  I added Proto 2000 National B-1 trucks with Intermountain 0.088" wheelsets and Kadee 442 brake pads.  I mounted the brake reservoir transversely and used a Detail Associates brake set reservoir and brake cylinder.  I used Yarmouth Model Works YMW 201 sill steps, YMW 403 brake levers, and YMW 507 Cut Lever Brackets.  Kadee 2250 Side Grab Irons, a Kadee 131 Ajax Brake Wheel, and Kadee 2001 ApeX 40' Running Board were used along with a Plano 131 Apex brake platform.   Other detail parts included Tichy 3021 18" straight grab irons, Tangent TSM 203 Coupler Lift Bars, and Hi-Tech Details 6040 air hoses and brackets.  I used the decals from the National Scale Car mini-kit.  The door and fixtures in the mini-kit will be used on a Southern Pacific boxcar instead.  I used a 50:50 mixture of Accupaint AP-12 Oxide Brown and TruColor TCP-192 ACL 1944-60s Freight Car Brown for the sides and the roof.  The underframe and ends were painted with TruColor TCP-010 Black.  Pan Pastels were used to weather the car, then Speedwitch chalk marks were added.

 

Thank you to everyone that provided information on these cars.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

 


Re: General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 12:42 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
This one is particularly goofy,
Goofy, yeah, but there's some purpose to it. 
I want to point out that lever - staff hand brakes need to have two ratchet and pawl mechanisms. One, seen here above the running board, keeps the staff from unwinding and releasing tension in the brake rigging, same as with horizontal wheel staff handbrakes. The pawl can be kicked to disengage it and release the brake.
The second mechanism engages the handle with the staff, allowing the handle to be ratcheted back and forth applying the brake. This one is designed so the pawl on the short end of the lever is lifted clear of the ratchet wheel when the handle drops.   I suppose there's a reason why the ratchet is tapered, but it's not apparent.
The Miner mechanism performs the same two ratchet functions in a single enclosed mechanism with a release lever.

Jack Mullen 


Re: General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Mark Vinski
 

The placard holders are interesting; just a thick slab of wood. 

Mark Vinski


Pacific Fruit Express Repair Track Carts

Richard Wilkens
 

Besides making freight cars Pacific Car & Foundry also built vehicles and carts. In 1926 and 1930 they produced carts for Pacific Fruit Express that were used in the servicing areas and the order number and locations for the 1930 orders were: Order T-3030, 10 carts for Roseville; T-3035, 15 carts for Tucson; and T-3040, 6 carts for Pocatello. In the Pacific Fruit Express book by Thompson/Church/Jones some of these carts can be seen in the section on Car Shops. Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive Collection.

Richard Wilkens


Re: Case Threshing Machine Co. Flat Car 503

Bob Chaparro
 

As to the boxcar, one from this series is on display at the San Luis Obispo Railroad Museum in California:

https://www.slorrm.com/QR-1200PCRy.html
Advisory...A Plug.
If you are in the neighborhood, check out this and other cars on the property, especially during the Central Coast Railroad Festival on October 7-9:

https://ccrrf.com/schedule-2022.html
For the tenth year I will be organizing a free, self-guided tour of model railroad in San Luis Obispo and northern Santa Barbara Counties. We had 29 railroads on last year's tour.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: WWII oil transport

John Barry
 

Ike,

It depends, NARA San Bruno has ODT records from the San Francisco Field Office.  That is where I found the detention report that was the basis of my blog post.  Some of the Office of Defense Transportation. Highway Transport Department. Federal Operations Division are in Kansas City.  Most of the records should be at the main archive in College Park, MD.  https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/219.html?_ga=2.208343057.2099560646.1658175892-1167037926.1658175892 is a listing of the holdings in Record Group 219.  

The collection of ODT bulletins would be a welcome addition to my information sources.  Any chance of obtaining PDF copies?

John

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 04:01:15 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


The Southern Railway group’s archives contain quite a few orders for “MAIN” trains and freight movements. Understandably, most of the specific movement records are on the Southern but all/most of the various ODT bulletins are in the collection. (The bulletin that “trapped” all “western” tank cars east of the Mississippi must have been quite a shock.)

A couple of years ago I attempted find where the ODT archives were located. I wrote the Army Transportation Corp. museum at Ft. Eustis, VA but never received a response. Does anyone know where the ODT files are located?

Ike






Re: UTLX Class X Tank Car Build

Clarence Zink
 

So, what are you modeling?  That is what makes the difference.  Local petroleum dealers only took a couple of tank cars at a time. Refineries and tank farms took dozens, if not hundreds, of tank cars at a whack.

Yes, individual oil companies had several different types/classes of tank cars at once, evidently commonly combined in trains.  Photos show that.  Big deal.  Model that!

If you are modeling a downstate Illinois local oil dealer of the '40's, you're only gonna use at most, 4 tank cars, probably fewer.

Or, maybe, as a few folks do, the Green River UP yard.  Blocks of Sinclair and other tank cars moved through there on their way west, north, and south.

Any specific refinery had huge amounts of tank cars, bringing in crude, hauling off gasoline and other fuels.  Many refineries received crude from both pipelines and rail shipments, and put out product in the same ways.

Those folks modeling Sherman Hill, or Tehachapi, certainly had blocks of tank cars traversing the rails.  

Unfortunately, I believe the collective "we" tend to be very myopic in what we model, because "we" have a specific vision in our mind.  Mine is the Rock Springs platform in the mid 1960's watching the DD35's pulling a hundred tank cars west.

Go to the Library of Congress Office of War Information website, and do a search for "Tank car".  You will get 143 photos of tank cars, taken by Gov't hired contract photographers during the WWII era:  https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/ .  Or any other large digital collection.  There are hundreds out there waiting to be pillaged for our personal research.

Don't fall down the 'rabbit hole' too far!

CRZ 

And just for something nuts:


Re: T&P 40380

O Fenton Wells
 

Well done Rich, Are you satisfied with the color?  It looks good to me
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:54 PM Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:

Just over five weeks ago I posted a question about what color to paint a Texas & Pacific boxcar.  A number of you sent me color photos of the cars and additional information.  I was finishing a model of a 1937 T&P AAR boxcar.  These cars were built with Youngstown doors equipped with Union Duplex fixtures.  I had purchased a National Scale Car Union Duplex mini-kit to use on this car.  

 

After receiving all of the photos I realized that the cars were rebuilt in the 1950’s, with the doors being replaces with welded Superior doors (but no Union Duplex fixtures).  The side sills were extended on the right side of the door.  Also, steel running boards and brake steps were added.  I don’t know if all of the cars were rebuilt, but every photo I saw of the cars in the 1950s had these changes.  The result is I had to rework some of my model.  I have finally finished my model of the car. 

 

I decided to model #40380 since the side sill was lengthened a shorter distance on this car.  I shortened a Southwest Scale Models FC-650 door.  I added Proto 2000 National B-1 trucks with Intermountain 0.088" wheelsets and Kadee 442 brake pads.  I mounted the brake reservoir transversely and used a Detail Associates brake set reservoir and brake cylinder.  I used Yarmouth Model Works YMW 201 sill steps, YMW 403 brake levers, and YMW 507 Cut Lever Brackets.  Kadee 2250 Side Grab Irons, a Kadee 131 Ajax Brake Wheel, and Kadee 2001 ApeX 40' Running Board were used along with a Plano 131 Apex brake platform.   Other detail parts included Tichy 3021 18" straight grab irons, Tangent TSM 203 Coupler Lift Bars, and Hi-Tech Details 6040 air hoses and brackets.  I used the decals from the National Scale Car mini-kit.  The door and fixtures in the mini-kit will be used on a Southern Pacific boxcar instead.  I used a 50:50 mixture of Accupaint AP-12 Oxide Brown and TruColor TCP-192 ACL 1944-60s Freight Car Brown for the sides and the roof.  The underframe and ends were painted with TruColor TCP-010 Black.  Pan Pastels were used to weather the car, then Speedwitch chalk marks were added.

 

Thank you to everyone that provided information on these cars.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: T&P 40380

gtws00
 

A very nice-looking car with those modifications
Thanks for sharing
Goerge Toman


Re: WWII oil transport

Edward
 
Edited

The reason behind those long oil movements by rail in the east during the war years, was due to German submarines lurking off the coast of the USA.
This made the usual shipping of crude oil from Gulf of Mexico ports to refineries on the east coast by coastal tank ships impossible, due heavy losses by torpedoes.
Pipelines for transmission of oil overland was limited back then and was vastly expanded after WW II.
The railroad brotherhoods were not happy with that.   

Ed Bommer


Re: WWII oil transport

George Eichelberger
 

The Southern Railway group’s archives contain quite a few orders for “MAIN” trains and freight movements. Understandably, most of the specific movement records are on the Southern but all/most of the various ODT bulletins are in the collection. (The bulletin that “trapped” all “western” tank cars east of the Mississippi must have been quite a shock.)

A couple of years ago I attempted find where the ODT archives were located. I wrote the Army Transportation Corp. museum at Ft. Eustis, VA but never received a response. Does anyone know where the ODT files are located?

Ike


Re: WWII oil transport

Tim O'Connor
 


Someone mentioned Sinclair on the UP in Wyoming. This is CNW's yard serving Standard Oil
in Casper Wyoming. These would almost all be UTLX cars. Possibly many of these can be modeled
in HO from resin kits. It's from 1948 according to the archive -- appears that there was once a
need for a larger yard than it needed in 1948. Or maybe it's seasonal?


On 7/18/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Madden via groups.io wrote:

The Ralph Hallock photo collection at the Colorado Railroad Museum contains quite a few photos of wartime oil trains. Two examples attached. Most were taken in 1943 (date not further defined) on either the CNJ/LV/RDG/B&O main line in north central NJ, or on the B&A in Chatham NY. All appear to be of westbound empties. There is also one taken on the B&O at Harpers Ferry WV behind an EM-1 in June 1944. Not a lot of uniformity to the tank cars, except for color.

Tom Madden

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Alaska Railroad Hart Convertible Ballast Gondola ARR 1443

Lloyd Keyser
 

Thanks Tony I was not aware of these cars being available. Is this outfit still in business? I would like two of the Kit 101 which his site shows as sold out. Do you know if he has rerun these or is willing to rerun? Will he be at RPM?Best LK

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:30 PM Lloyd Keyser via groups.io <lloydkeyser=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I put the Branchline car info in the wrong place. Sorry about that. The Hart car I'm referring to is the Alaska car. I believe the 1937 Car Builders may have had the plans. My 1940 does not. C&NW were still using them in the late fifties as cinder cars. I just found a copy of page 310 showing three pictures of the car but not  what it came out of. I'm hoping some on the list can fill this in. Built by Rodger Ballast Car Company. Best LK

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:05 PM Lloyd Keyser <lloydkeyser@...> wrote:

Branch Line did the car in their Blueprint series. One in the yellow and green and the other in the grey scheme.
I assembled four each and they do take a little work besides changing to AB brakes. The biggest problem I  had and took the longest time to correct was the sides of my cars were thicker than the side inset. In other words when you looked at the end of the car you saw two yellow stripes down each side. I thinned my sides down to match the depth of the side to get rid of the yellow. The lettering on the grey cars was acceptable but the Y/G sides had the wrong color of green which did not fully cover and did not match the darker ends and the lettering was not good. I stripped the sides, repainted and redecaled with Westerfield decals. I do not know  if these problems were corrected in later runs or not. LK

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 1:47 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
Which Hart convertible gondola design? I believe there were several options down through the decades. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 18, 2022, at 2:29 PM, Lloyd Keyser <lloydkeyser@...> wrote:

Sure wish someone  would do the Hart cars in 3D. It should be a good seller as most railroads had them and were also used in cinder service. LK


Re: Prototype for Branchline 37-Foot Reefer?

O Fenton Wells
 

Bob, I think Brian might be correct
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 2:40 PM Joseph <Mstl852@...> wrote:
Maybe Rapido?   They made undec kits as well as RTD models of the 37’ meat reefers
Joe Binish

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 1:39 PM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Branchline didn’t do 37 ft reefers in their line. Is this an earlier Branchline custom painted model (mdc) and not Blueprint. Can you share a pic?

Brian J. Carlson


--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY







--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: General Petroleum Tank Cars - Questions

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 10:49 AM, Jack Mullen wrote:
As others have said, the brake being discussed is the staff type, in which the lever is lifted, then moved in a horizontal arc to rotate the staff, which winds chain around it's lower end.
And, since most were patented, the designs became more and more outlandish in the effort to avoid existing patents. This one is particularly goofy, and luckily we have views from two different angles. In the broadside view of the car you can see that the handle forks above its attachment to the staff, so when lifted the mechanism at the end falls on the opposite side of the staff and engages the tapered shape at the top of the staff, which looks like it has gear teeth on it. The stubby end of this extension is a  handle for the brakeman's other hand, and possibly moves a detent to engage the teeth. Meanwhile, the staff has a ratchet at its base, equipped with a pawl to be operated by the brakeman's toe. When winding the brake down, he must've looked like he was dancing a jig!

Dennis Storzek


Re: Northern Pacific Automobile Box Car NP 8029

Tim O'Connor
 


I am confused. The drawing definitely shows tongue-in-groove (interlocking) boards. Just above
where it says "Section Through Side Plate".

Are you guys referring instead to "beaded" siding, which the NP used now and then ?


On 7/18/2022 3:24 PM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Rob
You might be reading a bit too much into the builder's photo.  The pictures I have seen including the one attached suggest traditional tongue and groove siding without any groove.  
I included a portion of the builder's drawing showing the cross section of the wood sheathing.  It definitelyshows no groove.

Gene Deimling

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Northern Pacific Automobile Box Car NP 8029

Robert kirkham
 

Fair points Gene.  I note the vertical edges of lettering on the car side in the builders photo do not waiver at the supposed beveled board edges, so it must only be an odd lighting situation?  

Rob  

  

On Jul 18, 2022, at 12:24 PM, Gene Deimling <proto48@...> wrote:

Rob
You might be reading a bit too much into the builder's photo.  The pictures I have seen including the one attached suggest traditional tongue and groove siding without any groove.  
I included a portion of the builder's drawing showing the cross section of the wood sheathing.  It definitelyshows no groove.

Gene Deimling
<NP 8070 - WWANFC-01-172.jpg><NP 8000-8199 selected.jpg>

4581 - 4600 of 198607