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HO IMWX '37 AAR box car kits
Andy Carlson
Hello- I have a special offer for fans of the 1937 AAR 40' box car. Ten new, mint kits, all factory painted and lettered. Contents look to have not been disturbed. No dealer stickers. A fine batch of kits with no duplicates. Selling as a lot. HOBSP234 Southern Pacific SP#83234 B-50-21 blt 2-42 HOBCN236 Canadian National #485236, blt 5-54 lg "serves all Canada" Maple Leaf DPH0122 Des Plaines Hobbies fully spelled "Chesapeake & Ohio" #4357 blt 10-36 sq corner +VIKING roof. has bonus bracket grab iron sprue by Red Caboose incl DPHO115 Nickle(sic) Plate; "NYC&STL" and NKP 15302 on left-"Nickel Plate Road" on right blt 6-36 square corner +VIKING roof HOBCO823 fully spelled "Chesapeake & Ohio" #3823 lt 10-40, repaint 7-48 "CandO for progress herald. HOBSA925 SEABOARD #19925 "the route of courteous service"w/ centered red heart lg circle herald. Blt 9-45 HOBLN921 L&N blt 9-41 HOBNP068 fully spelled arched "Northern Pacific" with small monad NP#17068. Has an added data sheet explaining this car is to use the 7 panel Superior door. blt 5-41 HOBNH096 Large stylistic cursive New York New Haven and Hartford on left- reporting marks NH 30096 on right. blt 9-41 SPECIAL EDITION: Texas & Pacific #40258 w/ white T&P letters on black circle all inside ornate diamond herald. Square corner blt 11-37 repaint 8-54 Offered for $135, price includes Priority Mail shipping to the US. Contact me off-list (please) for further descriptions or other questions at I accept checks and money orders. for a small fee I also accept PayPal. THANKS, -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
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Short Run Decals
Paul Koehler
Does anybody have any suggestions for short ru8ns of decals? Jerry Glow did many sets of ten for me before he retired, is there anyone else doing short runs? T^hanks Paul C. Koehler
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Re: Reflecting mid-1920s freight car lettering
Eric Hansmann
Dang. I proofed everything but that first line. It should read as this: I think there are a couple things here that we see when a CAMERA is positioned six INCHES from a model. Sorry 'bout that. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
On September 17, 2016 at 9:50 AM "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Reflecting mid-1920s freight car lettering
Eric Hansmann
Hey Don! I think there are a couple things here that we see when a car era is positioned six from a model. First, the F&C decals are a bit thick, or heavy, so they do look different from the finer look of the Rail Graphics data decals. Note the thickness of the letters on the reweigh and the car class. Those stand out the most to my eye. Second, the larger road name and car number look brighter as they are a larger size. These characters also seem a bit heavy compared to the prototype lettering. As they are larger letters, they don't seem as different as the comparison between the car class and reweigh with the rest of the data. Here's a close up of the model: http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/201609_xmp_2.jpg And compare it with the prototype lettering. http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/201609_xmp_proto.jpg Normal viewing will be 20-30 inches from eye to model, plus the car will be weathered, so I'm not concerned with the different lettering standing apart from the rest on the car during normal viewing and operating. These are actually the first two models that I've decaled with a combination of different sets, so we will see. I've found that weathering layers are a great leveler of tone, color, and appearance. Thanks for the question. It is something we all will deal with at some point in our model building. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
On September 16, 2016 at 6:03 PM "riverman_vt@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: California Asphaltum
Gary Ray
Cooler there than inland. In the late 50’s/early 60’s many streets in Taft and Bakersfield had asphaltum. In the 110 degree weather, it would get a little soft. Some areas would be black and shiny to looking back seemed like seepage, however, I don’t really recall it sticking to my shoes. There was no gravel mixed in – just a smooth black surface. Usage of this seemed mainly in parking lots and in the street of the mobile home park we lived in. Looking at a 1920’s map for Gerber which I model in that time period, asphaltum was specified around the depot. I know parts of the CA State Hwy, now 99 or I-5, were just being paved in the mid 1920’s. Somewhere, I had a picture of paving in Sisson (now Mt. Shasta City). Seems like concrete was being used, but I’ll have to locate the photo to be sure. If anyone has information about surfacing the CA State Hwy (Hwy. 99) from Gerber to Redding during the mid-20’s, help would be greatly appreciated.
My tank cars arrived today – anxious to convert them. I’d asked before with no answers about 1920’s asphalt suppliers for northern CA. Still seeking info.
Gary Ray Magalia, CA
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:03 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] California Asphaltum
Even on very hot days in full sun the surface remained solid. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
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Re: more on asphalt cars
Jeffrey White
The rural county I live in here in South Central Illinois still oils and chips many roads annually as do most of the small municipalities. The oil is dispensed from a truck that looks very much like the one in the photograph. The oil truck is followed by a dump truck full of fine gravel which is spread on the fresh oil. To save multiple trips to the county road and highway department (it might be 20 or more miles back to the road and highway yard), oil is brought to the spreader truck in tank type semi trailers and transferred into the spreader truck. It's all done by truck now, but I would bet that it came in on tank cars during the era we discuss here. There is no spur into the Marion County Road and Highway Department now, but it's less then a block from the old B&O line that ran through the county seat. A town I model, Centralia, IL did have a spur that served the city public works yard. The next time I am down at the museum I will go through their archives and see if I can find any photographs of road oil being unloaded there. I'll share any photos I can find. Jeff White Alma IL
On 9/16/2016 9:18 PM,
richramik@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: more on asphalt cars
Wasn't "asphaltum" also used sometimes to describe "car cement" (?) or other heavy roof or rustproofing compounds? I always think of the gooey stuff you slosh onto the roof of buildings, or on driveways, when I think of the coatings applied to freight car roofs. Tim O'Connor
Rich Orr wrote:
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California Asphaltum
Andy Carlson
At least here in the West, many early paved roads were made with surface mined asphaltum. About 5 miles RR East from San Luis Obispo, CA, the SP and the Narrow Gauge Pacific Coast Railway shared service to an asphatum operation at Hadley Junction. California has lots of oil seeps scattered around, and many are very heavy crude, and some is asphaltum. The Carpenteria indians of pre-California mined asphaltum to water-seal their canoes which allowed fishing trips out to the large Channel Islands of Santa Cruz and Santa Rosa. The asphaltum at SP's Hadley Junction was packed mostly in barrels for loading into box cars. Some product was bulk loaded into the narrow gauge gondolas for road use in the city of SLO. At room temperature the asphaltum was a solid with zero liquid components. Making asphaltum roads involved simply heating and rolling, and many times heating was skipped. Often no aggregates were used. There are some vestigial roads around the site of Hadley Junction where a few asphatum road surfaces remain. It appears to me like ocean aggregates would be added to the rolled surface and followed up with a finishing rolling. You can even see some ocean shells in the road surface. The epic book on the Pacific Coast Railway published by Bob Brown's company; he of the Short Line & Narrow Gauge Gazette, has several photos of the operations at track side. The last building of the PCRy, the bean elevator warehouse, survived into the 1990s. I visited it before demolition and noticed that the track side platform was a brick retaining wall with back-fill of asphaltum. The platform surface was asphaltum and survived to the end in rather good condition. Even on very hot days in full sun the surface remained solid. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" Rich Orr wrote:
According to several web sources, asphaltum is merely the old name for asphalt. It was in use before the 20th century. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars
Tony Thompson
Rich Orr wrote:
According to several web sources, asphaltum is merely the old name for asphalt. It was in use before the 20th century. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)
Scott H. Haycock
I agree with Tony. A set of pipes go from the top of the tank car to the top of the heater/pump trailer. The product then goes into the pump, back out the top of the trailer, then to the tanker truck. I'm curious what the canister-shaped thing, in the middle of the tank car pipe, was for? An insulated hose (larger in diameter) appears to go from the heater on the trailer to the bottom of the tank car to heat the product, whatever it may be. As to the heater, I see no steam vapor anywhere. I wonder if the heat source my be hot air. Note the cyclone looking device on the end of the trailer. Scott Haycock Peter Hall wrote:
I don't agree at all. The background is much lighter (hazy?) and the hose to the dome top is dark. I see a continuous line of hose from the tank car to a fixture on the top of the "pump/heater" equipment, and it is separate from the hose going to the truck. You can blow up the web image. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)
There are two photos of the UTLX car at Marietta MN being unloaded into a road oil truck. The date is June 1954. I don’t think the photo has anything to do with asphalt. In the mid-west it was a common practice to spray gravel (rock) roads with oil to control the dust during the summer. Note the truck has a propane tank and a spray boom, indicating the oil was heated to ease spraying. The second photo, taken from a higher angle clearly shows the hose from the top of the tank car dome to the top of the trailer. The trailer is equipped with a heater and a pump, to heat the oil so it can be pumped from the car to the truck. It is possible the car contained oil to be used in making an asphalt road, but I am pretty sure it was oil used to spray for dust control. This is a practice that was common up through the 60’s and later in rural areas of Iowa.
Doug Harding <http://www.iowacentralrr.org> www.iowacentralrr.org From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:34 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar) Tony, I think it’s possible that the hose “connected” to the top of the tank car may be an illusion. Since there is a grain elevator behind the car, it’s possible the “hose” is actually a line to the rooftop of the elevator, and just appears to connect to the car due to the angle of the photographer and the single eye of the lens, which gives no stereoscopic vision. Thanks Pete On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote: Bob Chaparro wrote: Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck? I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump. Good question, Bob, and I wondered the same thing. The tank car isn't insulated, meaning that either it has built-in steam coils or some other method must be used to liquidize the asphalt/tar. Could the line into the dome manway be a steam line, to an immersion coil? These were used elsewhere for such a purpose. I agree with Bob also that it is too bad we can't see more clearly what the mobile "pump" or whatever it is is doing, but it might have a small boiler or hot-water heater to feed a coil. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com <http://www.signaturepress.com/> (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: more on asphalt cars
SUVCWORR@...
Not to muddy the waters more but what is the difference between asphalt concrete and asphaltum? Are they the same or is asphaltum the recycled asphalt concrete which is stripped from the road, heated, additonal binder added and then laid down again?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Obligatory freight car -- the additional binder is delivered in tank cars and transferred to tank trucks by at least one contractor nearby. Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 10:18 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars Mike Bauers wrote:
Better check into this more extensively, Mike. The term "asphalt" definitely refers to the petroleum binder in paving. It is only "civilian" slang to call the paving "asphalt," and professionals call it "asphalt concrete" when it has aggregate in it. Tar is NOT asphalt, it is a chemically different material -- you could look it up. You can make roads with tar instead of asphalt, and once that was common, but tar softens much more with temperature than asphalt, thus not a great road on a hot day.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)
Tony Thompson
Peter Hall wrote:
I don't agree at all. The background is much lighter (hazy?) and the hose to the dome top is dark. I see a continuous line of hose from the tank car to a fixture on the top of the "pump/heater" equipment, and it is separate from the hose going to the truck. You can blow up the web image. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars
Tony Thompson
Mike Bauers wrote:
Better check into this more extensively, Mike. The term "asphalt" definitely refers to the petroleum binder in paving. It is only "civilian" slang to call the paving "asphalt," and professionals call it "asphalt concrete" when it has aggregate in it. Tar is NOT asphalt, it is a chemically different material -- you could look it up. You can make roads with tar instead of asphalt, and once that was common, but tar softens much more with temperature than asphalt, thus not a great road on a hot day. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: more on asphalt cars
richramik@...
As a youngster, I remember the dirt roads being "oiled" then a fine layer of crushed stone/rock and then rolled. Eventually, this was the base for the roads being paved. Many of the roads in my area (Randolph, New Jersey) were like this in the mid- to late 50's. Some were still this way into the early 60's. I had forgotten about this until this thread appeared. The question would be how to represent this on a layout?
On 09/16/16, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
Jeff Shultz wrote:
The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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May 24th, 1918, continued
Schuyler Larrabee
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-16-16/X0971.jpg
Plus the next two photos
Schuyler
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Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers
Les, and others, below is the contents of a message Gene Green posted to the MSTL group regarding the 63000 hoppers. The 63000 cars were different than the 65000 cars. The only photo I have of a 63000 hopper is of #63537, which clearly shows the word Chicago under the new paint. The 63000 cars were built in 1920-1922. Most likely they are USRA clones. The 5th Ave Car Shops model you have is based on a USRA hopper car, which is not 100% accurate for a USRA car. Which might account for some of the differences you noticed.
I have two photos of 65000 hoppers, 65091 and 65327. Only the 65091 photo shows the brake wheel end. It has a vertical brake wheel and the retaining valve is just below the rim of the end and located in almost the center. 65327 has a Carmer uncoupling lever, 65091 does not.
Hope this helps. I have additional info on other M&StL hoppers, most courtesy of both Gene and Clark.
Doug Harding
Here's more than you ever wanted to know about the M&StL's used, open-top, two-bay hoppers acquired in 1941 and numbered 63001 through 63579.
numbers ranged from CBPX, as has been stated by others, stands for Chicago By-Products which was formerly Peoples Gas By-Products of Chicago (PGBX).
There were originally 290 cars total and their original CBPX 100 through 837 with lots of missing numbers. All the cars were delivered to the M&StL at Peoria. The Alton delivered 102 cars, Rock Island delivered 39, and Illinois Central 99. The first car was delivered June 11, 1941, the last July 6, 1941.
The AFE offered no clue as to the builder although dates built ranged from January 1920 through May 1921. All except four cars were built in November and December 1920 and January and February 1921.
These cars were retired by the M&StL mostly in 1948 through 1952. M&StL hopper 63375 lasted until January 1961 when it was retired and subsequently sold to M. S. Kaplan Co. August 10, 1961.
Four were lost to wrecks as follows: 63011 on the M&StL at Searsboro September 21, 1945 63201 on the Illinois Terminal November 20, 1948 63319 on the Illinois Central in February 1947 63463 on the ERIE April 27, 1948
Aside for the 4 wrecked cars and the one sold to Kaplan, all the rest were sold to the Purdy Co.
One train of 103 of these cars were in a single train from Marshalltown on January 30, 1953 to Peoria from where the GM&O took them to Burnham, Illinois and handed them over to the Indiana Harbor Belt for delivery to Purdy. Of these 103 cars only 8 numbers are known; 63017, 63073, 63127, 63343, 63363, 63373, 63425 and 63453.
The AFEs do not tell us what happened to most of these cars after delivery to Purdy but some dispositions are known.
Eighteen cars were renumbered PCX (Purdy's reporting marks) 6301 through 6318 inclusive. Of these, 6301 through 6309 were subsequently renumbered WICO 2125 through 2133 (6309 became 2125, 6308 2126, etc.) for Woodward Iron Co., Woodward, Alabama.
The remaining cars known to be renumbered PCX were also in the 6300 series.
None of the applicable AFEs had any clue as to builder, type of trucks, brake system, hand brake or any of that neat stuff a modeler would like to know.
Three of the cars were reweighed at Minneapolis (MPLS) 7-41 as follows: 63547's new weight was 37900 lbs. 63531 was 38600 lbs. 63539 was 39000 lbs.
M&StL 63375 was reweighed at some unknown location in February 1958 and found to weigh 37700 lbs.
That's all, Folks.
Gene Green
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Re: May 24th, 1918
brianleppert@att.net
Those are not Fox trucks under the StJ&GI boxcar. They look to be Cloud Pedestal trucks. I have just uploaded a 1904 magazine ad to our Files section showing Cloud and Kindle trucks.
Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV Freight Car Trucks For the Prototype Modeler
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New file uploaded to STMFC
STMFC@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC group. File : /Kindl and Cloud Trucks.jpg Uploaded by : brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...> Description : Ad from June 23, 1904 The Daily Railway Age magazine You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Kindl%20and%20Cloud%20Trucks.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...>
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Re: Reflecting mid-1920s freight car lettering
riverman_vt@...
Hi Eric,
What do you do about the fact that with one look at iyour Reading boxcar it is easy to see that two different sets of lettering were used, that from F&C being considerably more "white". Will careful weathering conceal such differences? Since Athearn "Blue Box" days I have used a sharp knife blade and a fine tipped brush with the appropriate color of paint to change the digits in car numbers when more than one of the same car was desired. In this case there was so little that was changed it was easy to conceal. I wonder about that with about half the lettering coming from one source and the other half from another and one appearing to be so much brighter than the other. The cars are a great addition to any fleet if that issue can be overcome. Cordially, Don Valentine
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