Date   

Chicagoland RPM op session

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello everyone,

The Chicago RPM show in Lisle is coming up quickly. As an added activity, my Milwaukee Road layout will be running on Sunday, 10/23, from 9AM to 1 PM.. This would be a great conclusion to the show. No operating experience is needed and generally we use two man crews because of the size of the trains. Please contact me off list or at the show to sign up for the session.

Also will see many of you at the show at my spread.

Ted


Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: Coal to California (Location Of Kaiser Steel Mill)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

It was stated, "One wonders if eastern coal would have become economical if the mill  had been located at the Port of Los Angeles, which is where Kaiser
wanted to build the mill instead of inland at U.S. Government insistence
due to fear of shelling by IJN ships during WW II."


If you examine the make-up of the government board that made this decision you will find it included members from other steel companies who did not want another steel mill in California. By not placing the mill at the port it increased Kaiser's cost for transportation and water. Kaiser made it work anyway.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Re: Fox Trucks & Riveted Wheels

Dave Parker
 

Based on their relative positions in the photo, I would hazard a guess that those trucks are from the tender, not a freight car.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Fox Trucks & Riveted Wheels

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This photo link is from the Ohio Memory website at: http://www.ohiomemory.org/cdm/ .

 

The link is to a photo of a train wreck on the Hocking Valley Railroad at Pemberville, Ohio. The accompanying information dates the photo to the 1930s but I believe the wreck took place much before then.

 

http://www.ohiomemory.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p15005coll18/id/579/

 

Use the slider above the photo to enlarge it. It clearly shows a Fox truck with riveted wheels, two equipment designs less commonly found in photos.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

Randy Hees
 

The door at one end of the car is a known Seattle Car & Foundry - Pacific Car & Foundry design, seen in catalogs. (the 1913 catalog is available in a reprint and on line)

The description notes that the car is set up with a trolley system for halves of beef or mutton complete with switches "to direct the halves to any track desired" with the meat left hanging while traveling, so most likely to aid loading and unloading by having one set of switches on the end of the car.

The catalog shows both the White Swan car and one for Frye and Company

Randy Hees


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

Bernhard Schroeter
 

Thanks Johannes
and thanks again for your friendly and honoring words abaout my models. Yes, I would like to say that I'm lucky about the result of our common project, Joerg and me.

And I would like to give you my word that I will build the last three PFE R-70 reefers for you with the same effort than my models.

Greetings back to you!

Bernd - modelsof1900


---In STMFC@..., <j.markwart@...> wrote :

Hello Bernd,
 
congrats to this fantastic model! As you know I already had the opportunity to examine it in person at the FREMO-meeting, but now with all the final detailing like grabs and door hardware it looks even much better, of course!
 
>> I should write that painting and decaling was done by a very good friend. <<
 
And you should add that the decals themselves are completely customized in a joint-effort between you and the painter. ;-)
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Oktober 2016 um 21:47 Uhr
Von: "modelsof1900@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
An: STMFC@...
Betreff: [STMFC] Re: White Swan billboard reefers
 

Sorry, a short addition.
I should write that painting and decaling was done by a very good friend.
This was not my work!

Thanks! Bernhard


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

Bernhard Schroeter
 

Lou, a good question and a sipmle answer.
There was the idea to reduce man power while loading and transporting with a hanging transport of beef halfes.
These specific reefers were equipped with a rail system under the roof that was constructed like an "S" also with some switches where the rail end were fixed at the doors. So the cars were positioned with their doors for loading and unloading at the loading ramp doors of the meet packing plants. There short moveable rails were inserted about the gap from meet packer's loding door to the reefer door and the hanging meet halves could be moved on the hooks equipped with small wheels directly from the meet packing plant into the reefers - with lesser man power than packing the meet on shoulder and back of many men.
I think that this was a really good solution, hwever the cars must be built also 2 foot higher than ordinary cars - and this is the second speciality of these reefers.


---In STMFC@..., <louisvwin@...> wrote :

Why is the door so close to one end? I never saw a car like that before.

Lou Van Winkle

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 2:13 PM, modelsof1900@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This weekend I finished the firts of five billboard reefer with "White Swan" advertising.
Models were built after a sketch and some prototype information from a NWSL reprint of Seattle Car and Foundry Co. of 1913.
See this picture ...

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp- content/gallery/whiteswan- reefer/whiteswan_076k.jpg

or visit a complete gallery - Galerie – White swan reefers


Sorry, captions in German however I'm sure that the pictures give a lot of information.


Enjoy!

Bernhard - modelsof1900





Re: Coal to California (late 1940s and 1950s)

Paul Doggett <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Thanks guys very interesting and useful Tony Thompson did one of his very useful SP blogs on coal coming into California. So this is useful additional information.

On Wed, 12 Oct, 2016 at 2:00, cnw1045@... [STMFC]
wrote:
 

I thought some might be interested in the annual carloads of coal in the 1% ICC Carload Waybill Sample that ended up in California (to estimate the total annual carload shipments multiply by 100):


To California


From         1948    1950    1951    1952    1957

Penn             1           2          0         0          2       (these are anthracite)


Ark              11         11        21       20        11       (these and below are all bituminous)

Colo              1           0         0         0           0

Kans             0           0         0         0           5

NMex            1           6         1        16          2

Okla              3           0         0          4         21

Utah            91       136     149      128       238

WVa               0          1         3          1           0

Wyo               1          2         5          2           1


It would appear that the majority of the commodity flow that terminated in California originated west of Sherman Pass ;)


Regards,


Charles Hostetler

Washington Ill.



Re: Coal to California (late 1940s and 1950s)

Steve Caple <stevecaple@...>
 

" One wonders if eastern coal would have become economical if the mill had been located at the Port of Los Angeles, which is where Kaiser wanted to build the mill instead of inland at U.S. Government insistence due to fear of shelling by IJN ships during WW II. "

Paranoid flapdoodle was rampant in early WW II - just as any Japanese family that lost their homes and farms and businesses and were never compensated other than the belated 1970s pittance.


Re: Coal to California (late 1940s and 1950s)

Mark Hemphill
 


Some note on origins, destinations, and equipment used for this coal:

More than 90% of the Utah-origin coal would have originated at the Sunnyside Mine in Utah, on D&RGW, and terminating at Kaiser Steel at Fontana, Calif.  The Sunnyside Mine was owned by Utah Fuel Co. until 1950, when it was purchased by Kaiser and became the Utah Fuel Division of Kaiser Steel. (Utah Fuel was a D&RGW subsidiary and owned many of the major coal mines in Utah, but was ultimate severed from D&RGW through its many reorganizations from bankruptcies.)  At various times in the 1950s there were some shipments exported to Japan at the Port of Los Angeles, and there would be some other industries that for various reasons wanted coal instead of the much cheaper fuel oil broadly available in Southern California, but this would be minor and erratic compared to the Sunnyside coal for Kaiser.  

Post-1954 until the early 1960s, at least per the photographs I have seen, most of this coal moved to Kaiser in 70-ton D&RGW drop-bottom gondolas in the 72000-73699 series (GATC 1953-54), along with the 71000-71999 series War Emergency 70-ton drop-bottom gons (PSC 1943), which by the early 1950s appear to have been mostly rebuilt with steel side sheets. Pre-1954 it would have mostly moved in 46000-47499 series (PSC 1947-1949) and the 1922-built, 70000-70699 series Western Steel Car & Foundry 70-ton drop-bottom gons. D&RGW didn't start purchasing hoppers for coal until 500 70-ton 18500-18999 series cars from PSC in 1952, followed by 200 from Bethlehem in 1957 (17000-17199) and 300 from AC&F (17200-17499) in 1958. Thus in the steam era, hoppers would be overwhelmed by the nearly 5,000 GS gons in the fleet.

The Arkansas origin coal would mostly be metallurgical coal from Bokoshe, Oklahoma, destined to Kaiser for blending with the semi-metallurgical high-volatile Sunnyside coal.  The Lower Sunnyside seam, which was the source of the Sunnyside coal, was essentially the only Utah coal available in significant quantity that could be called coking, but only by a stretch of the definition.  By eastern standards Sunnyside was a very poor coking coal.  Kaiser made do with it because its alternative, shipping eastern met coal to tidewater, then through the Panama Canal, then over the dock at Los Angeles, and then by rail inland 65 miles to Fontana, would have made Kaiser unprofitable to operate.  One wonders if eastern coal would have become economical if the mill had been located at the Port of Los Angeles, which is where Kaiser wanted to build the mill instead of inland at U.S. Government insistence due to fear of shelling by IJN ships during WW II.  Building the mill inland was an immense economic hardship to Kaiser, and restricted it from export markets it otherwise would have enjoyed, as well as made its input costs higher and restricted its domestic markets as well. The Bokoshe mines also shipped to Lone Star Steel at Daingerfield, Texas, CF&I at Minnequa, Colorado, and USS Geneva Works at Geneva, Utah, where it was blended in small quantities with local coal to improve its coking properties. Bokoshe is about 15 miles west of the Arkansas line in east-central Oklahoma, and about 7 miles west of the KCS main line at Coal Creek, Oklahoma. Bokoshe was served by the Midland Valley and Ft. Smith & Western (later KCS).  I have no idea what sort of equipment this coal moved in to western steel mills; but would be very appreciative if anyone knew.

The Arkansas coal was also met coal for blending at Kaiser, basically mines working the same McAlester and Lower Hartshorne seams across the border in Arkansas.

The New Mexico coal would probably be met coal originating at the Brilliant Mine, at Koehler, of the St. Louis, Rocky Mountain & Pacific Co.  The StLRM&P mines were adjacent to the Dawson mines of Phelps-Dodge. These properties were purchased and consolidated by Kaiser Steel in 1955, and ultimately reopened as the York Canyon underground mine in 1966, joined by a strip mine opened in 1972. This coal supplanted the Sunnyside production. No idea on equipment here either, but presumably it was ATSF.

The very low volume from Wyoming is because its coal was not competitive with Utah coal once transportation charges become a factor, which they very much are on a 850-mile haul. Western Wyoming coal from the Rock Springs, Superior, Kemmerer, and Hanna fields generally a low-BTU subbituminous A, B or C in the 9,500 to 10,000 BTU range that was not competitive with Utah's 12,000-12,500 BTU bituminous A and B coal.

Interesting seeing the growth in Utah coal carloads during this period from 9,100 to 23,800 per year, showing rapid growth of Kaiser Steel production in the 1950s boom economy in California.

Mark Hemphill

 


Coal to California (late 1940s and 1950s)

Charles Hostetler
 

I thought some might be interested in the annual carloads of coal in the 1% ICC Carload Waybill Sample that ended up in California (to estimate the total annual carload shipments multiply by 100):


To California


From         1948    1950    1951    1952    1957

Penn             1           2          0         0          2       (these are anthracite)


Ark              11         11        21       20        11       (these and below are all bituminous)

Colo              1           0         0         0           0

Kans             0           0         0         0           5

NMex            1           6         1        16          2

Okla              3           0         0          4         21

Utah            91       136     149      128       238

WVa               0          1         3          1           0

Wyo               1          2         5          2           1


It would appear that the majority of the commodity flow that terminated in California originated west of Sherman Pass ;)


Regards,


Charles Hostetler

Washington Ill.



Re: Bulk Wheat Loading

riverman_vt@...
 

    Interesting photo. It's the first time I've seen a double sheathed car in which the inside
sheathing did not go to the top of the sides. It was usually marked with the maximum
heights for various grains as well.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

Louis Van Winkle
 

Why is the door so close to one end? I never saw a car like that before.

Lou Van Winkle

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 2:13 PM, modelsof1900@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This weekend I finished the firts of five billboard reefer with "White Swan" advertising.
Models were built after a sketch and some prototype information from a NWSL reprint of Seattle Car and Foundry Co. of 1913.
See this picture ...

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/whiteswan-reefer/whiteswan_076k.jpg

or visit a complete gallery - Galerie – White swan reefers


Sorry, captions in German however I'm sure that the pictures give a lot of information.


Enjoy!

Bernhard - modelsof1900





Santa Fe Stock Car #56820 loading Sugar Beets

railsnw@...
 

Hi All,


Here is a recent Ebay purchase, RPPC of what appears to be sugar beets being loaded in Santa Fe Stock Car #56820, postcard is dated October 1909.


Richard Wilkens


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/sf%20stockcar001.jpg


Re: "KITS FOR SALE AND AN AIRBRUSH TOO

Mansell Peter Hambly
 

Off list is mphcd@...

Mansell Peter Hambly
COQUITLAM, B.C..



From: "MANSELL PETER HAMBLY mphcd@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 4:03:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "KITS FOR SALE AND AN AIRBRUSH TOO

 

I now have another listing emanating from my storage boxes of Norwest, Speedwitchmedia Sunshine Models, Red Caboose and Badger that will look really good in your build line up or storage boxes. Contact me off list please.

Mansell Peter Hambly
COQUITLAM,B.C.





Re: "KITS FOR SALE AND AN AIRBRUSH TOO

Mansell Peter Hambly
 

I now have another listing emanating from my storage boxes of Norwest, Speedwitchmedia Sunshine Models, Red Caboose and Badger that will look really good in your build line up or storage boxes. Contact me off list please.

Mansell Peter Hambly
COQUITLAM,B.C.




Re: Bulk Wheat Loading

amwing1588@...
 

Bob and all,

I've had this video for sometime now, which shows the loading of Bulk Wheat into a boxcar. It's a very interesting and educational video...about 15 minutes long. Even though it takes place in the Eighties in Canada...the equipment and handling method hasn't changed much from the early part of the last century. Hope you all enjoy it.

Grain Elevator

 



John Miller
Folsom, CA.


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

 

Yes. I saw you prior post about paint & decal before I sent my message. Beautiful work, as per usual!





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 3:20 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: White Swan billboard reefers







Brain, no.

The decals are own drawings made by my friend Jörg (Joerg) who painted an decaled this model.

---In STMFC@..., <bpehni@...> wrote :

Did you use the Clover House dry transfers?





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:13 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] White Swan billboard reefers





This weekend I finished the firts of five billboard reefer with "White Swan" advertising.
Models were built after a sketch and some prototype information from a NWSL reprint of Seattle Car and Foundry Co. of 1913.
See this picture ...

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/whiteswan-reefer/whiteswan_076k.jpg

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/whites...
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo
or visit a complete gallery - Galerie – White swan reefers

Galerie – White swan reefers Die Galerie zu den zwei Artikeln über … - “White Swans” – old time billboard reefers - Zurück zum Artikel >>> Teil 1 Teil 2
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo


Sorry, captions in German however I'm sure that the pictures give a lot of information.



Enjoy!

Bernhard - modelsof1900









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: White Swan billboard reefers

Bernhard Schroeter
 


Brain, no.

The decals are own drawings made by my friend Jörg (Joerg) who painted an decaled this model.

---In STMFC@..., <bpehni@...> wrote :

Did you use the Clover House dry transfers?





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:13 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] White Swan billboard reefers





This weekend I finished the firts of five billboard reefer with "White Swan" advertising.
Models were built after a sketch and some prototype information from a NWSL reprint of Seattle Car and Foundry Co. of 1913.
See this picture ...

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/whiteswan-reefer/whiteswan_076k.jpg

http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/whites...
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo
or visit a complete gallery - Galerie – White swan reefers

Galerie – White swan reefers Die Galerie zu den zwei Artikeln über … - “White Swans” – old time billboard reefers - Zurück zum Artikel >>> Teil 1 Teil 2
View on us-modelsof1900.de
Preview by Yahoo


Sorry, captions in German however I'm sure that the pictures give a lot of information.



Enjoy!

Bernhard - modelsof1900









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Paint/ lettering schemes suitable for late 1940s - beginning 1950s?

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks Mike! The background of my question is that I am doing a little clearance to my collection of cars - but don't have enough knowledge and library to be sure in every case if the car would fit "my" era. So this (really nice)  Kadee car has to go.
 
Best Regards
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Oktober 2016 um 05:38 Uhr
Von: "mononinmonon@... [STMFC]"
An: STMFC@...
Betreff: [STMFC] Re: Paint/ lettering schemes suitable for late 1940s - beginning 1950s?
 

Johannes,

 
Regarding the Monon car, this is the first series of cars delivered in this scheme that i can find.  The Monon also had a similar series of hoppers delivered in 1940 numbered 41500-41699.  These cars eventually had the same paint and lettering as your car, but the earliest date I see on the photos I have with this scheme is 1955. As I say the cars were similar, the 1954 cars were AAR standard while the 1940 cars were a Pullman variation on the AAR design, so not a great trade at any rate.
 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide

 

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