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NKP 22000-22349 series boxcars
D. Scott Chatfield
Been looking for a photo of this series with no luck. I'm building a Third Rail Graphics model for a friend. This is a Front Range double-door 40-footer, but based on the data printed on the model I seriously doubt the prototype is a match for it. I'm curious what doors, roof, and ends this series had. I've looked on line, in the Morning Sun color guide, and so on.
The N&W listing in the October 1965 ORER (I know, after this list's cutoff) says the series are "all steel, Z-bar" 40-foot boxcars with 10'0" inside height and 12'0" door openings. Not sure what is so special about Z-bar that it needs to be called out in the listing. Are these rebuilds of single-sheath boxcars? thanks Scott Chatfield
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die-cast Magor side dump in HO
D. Scott Chatfield
I dug out my kit and it's a Magor made by "Authenticast" by Comet Metal Products of Rochelle Falls, NY.
The instructions have a reasonably clear pic of CV 4455 as a prototype. Until I put it together I can't tell you how close the model comes to that prototype, but it's in the ballpark. Really need Western side dump model. Well, me and two or three other guys.... Scott Chatfield
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
Jack Mullen
Tim,
I don't believe this is a steel-sheathed car. I think the darkness of the image conceals the joints, which aren't very prominent on a well-maintained SS car anyway. There is a fairly obvious horizontal line visible near the top of the side, just below the level of the top ladder rung. I tentatively identify this as a T&P 61xxx series 40' SS auto car. There's some lettering on the door, at the very top of the image which I thing are reporting marks and car number. The upper part of the letters are cut off, but what's visible suggests that the first characters are T&P. The m arked capacity, 3720 cuft, matches the 61xxx series cars. Visible details of the doors, door stops, and side truss are a good match, and the T&P cars did have initials and number on the r.h. door above the placard board. btw, this is my second attempt at sending this post, the first try sent but hasn't appeared. Anyone else having recent problems with posts going into limbo either temporarily or permanently? Jack Mullen
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
Jack Mullen
I don't believe hat this is a steel-sheathed car. I think he darkness of the image tends to conceal board joints, but there is one fairly obvious horizontal line just below the level of the uppermost ladder rung.
I tentatively identify the car as a T&P 61xxx series 40' auto car. Lettering on the door, partly cut off at the top of the image suggests T&P reporting marks. The 3720 cu ft capacity marking matches this series of cars. What details are visible of the doors, door stops, side truss, and ladder are a match. Jack Mullen
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Re: NYC 499000 series flat
I believe that Kevin is referring to the 499030-34 and 499050-63 series (as well as B&A 17100-17104). The NYC drawings for these cars are available online at
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-561.jpg http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-699.jpg I wrote the HO ECW model with a boiler load up in the inaugural issue of the NYC Modeler. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
On Aug 4, 2016, at 12:56 PM, STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> wrote:
Hi Kevin, I have an image of the car NYC 499000 - as called out in the title line of your email - the image is dated 1924. While it is a heavy duty flat car, it is NOT a depressed center car. You may need to nail down the exact number series you are asking about, or perhaps nail down the time frame. Have you checked in an appropriate era ORER to get the full number series? Claus Schlund -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Sprayberry csxt5555@...<mailto:csxt5555@...> [STMFC] [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 11:42 AM To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] NYC 499000 series flat Can anyone provide any info on the 90 ton depressed center cars on the NYC? I'm trying to find photos to show the data on the car. I have found a few photos but nothing I can make out clearly. Thanks Kevin Sprayberry [cid:E2D5C887-DF48-4C1D-8F80-96242A29D4B2@...] [cid:43D0689A-ACEF-4BB4-874E-D89117DB99BC@...]
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Re: NYC 499000 series flat
Benjamin Hom
Claus Schlund wrote: "You may need to nail down the exact number series you are asking about, or perhaps nail down the time frame. Have you checked in an appropriate era ORER to get the full number series?" NYC 499000-499009 (ex-NYC&HR 30260-30269), Lot 285-F, built SSC 1912, in service until 1944. Ben Hom
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Re: NYC 499000 series flat
csxt5555
Exact car number is 499027.
On Aug 4, 2016, at 1:56 PM, claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: NYC 499000 series flat
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Kevin,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have an image of the car NYC 499000 - as called out in the title line of your email - the image is dated 1924. While it is a heavy duty flat car, it is NOT a depressed center car. You may need to nail down the exact number series you are asking about, or perhaps nail down the time frame. Have you checked in an appropriate era ORER to get the full number series? Claus Schlund
-----Original Message-----
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NYC 499000 series flat
csxt5555
Can anyone provide any info on the 90 ton depressed center cars on the NYC? I'm trying to find photos to show the data on the car. I have found a few photos but nothing I can make out clearly.
Thanks Kevin Sprayberry
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
MDelvec952
On the Lackawanna steel cabooses a star near the number denoted a flush toilet. Might convey the same message, after all.
....Mike Del Vecchio
-----Original Message----- From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2016 11:18 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stars On Boxcar Door? The car appears to have steel side sheathing. The Southern Pacific had single sheathed auto box cars built with steel sheathing, such as the 50 foot A-50-10. But the posts and diagonals are closer together than on that SP car, so I wonder if this is a 40 foot car. Tim O'Connor Bob,
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
The car appears to have steel side sheathing. The Southern Pacific had single sheathed auto box cars built with steel sheathing, such as the 50 foot A-50-10. But the posts and diagonals are closer together than on that SP car, so I wonder if this is a 40 foot car. Tim O'Connor
Bob,
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Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
Rufus Cone
Jack Parker, who designed and produced the NP stock car, was a serious NP fan and active participant in NPRHA. He in fact used both of the cars Dennis mentioned as references when the car was produced.
You can be confident that the underframe and other details represent the actual car, with the exception of the car width, which has been discussed before and for which NPRHA provides substitute ends. -- Rufus Cone Bozeman, MT
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
Bob,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I believe that the stars are a notation as to the type of automobile rack in the car. These marking usually denote the type of loader, the clearance and the number of floor tubes, but it is my understanding that custom markings could be used…
and given the photo is relatively early in the auto rack era it may be before the general rules were created.
I love the script “autos” on the door… but I can’t tell if it is a stencil or a chalk mark.
Regards Bruce
Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: Stars On Boxcar Door?
Eric Hansmann
Do those stars indicate the type of auto rack installed in the box car?
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Does anyone know the meaning of the two stars on the boxcar door seen on this photo link?
I cannot determine the owner of the boxcar.
The caption reads, "A large group of transient men is led back onto a train boxcar to send them away from Los Angeles, California. They had arrived in California by riding in the freight boxcars on February 8th, 1936."
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
Steve SANDIFER
The crossmembers of the kit match up with the rivets very well.
__________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:26 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
I have not had any success in finding the layout of the structural underframe of the Northern Pacific stock car from Central Valley.
See the pairs of rivets on the sill in the first and second panels out from the door? These are undoubtedly the attachment points for the cross bearers, just as the pair in the last panel, next to the post, are the attachment for the body bolster, the rivets for the edge toward the center of the car are hidden by the post. These are a feature you'll find on almost all steam era freightcars, because at the time welded fabrication was uncommon.
Given the location of these rivets, the CV crossbearer location appears to be correct: http://www.cvmw.com/imagecvmw/1001album/image/690_cv_1000_und2bw.jpg
Now the only question is are the crossbeares / cross ties the correct shape, and since CV went to the pains of making them different, I'd guess they had some reference material to work with.
I will be up at the Lake Superior railway museum in late September. If the car is accessible, I'll see what I can do for pix.
Dennis Storzek
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Stars On Boxcar Door?
thecitrusbelt@...
Does anyone know the meaning of the two stars on the boxcar door seen on this photo link?
I cannot determine the owner of the boxcar.
The caption reads, "A large group of transient men is led back onto a train boxcar to send them away from Los Angeles, California. They had arrived in California by riding in the freight boxcars on February 8th, 1936."
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
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Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
destorzek@...
---In STMFC@..., <PARDIEW001@...> wrote : I have not had any success in finding the layout of the structural underframe of the Northern Pacific stock car from Central Valley. I have , however, learned that there are at least two of these cars in railroad museums. One is at the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie, Washington and the other is at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, Minisota. Hopedfully someone on this list lives in the general vacinity of one of these museums and would be kind enough to shoot a few photos of the car's underframe. Any help would be appreciated. Billl Pardie Here's a hint... remember I said that many / most steam era freightcar underframes DID NOT have the crossbearers in line with the side posts? Well, those crossbearers still need to be attached to the side sills, and the attachment rivets on the sill are a dead giveaway as to their location. Take a look at these two pix: NP 82995
See the pairs of rivets on the sill in the first and second panels out from the door? These are undoubtedly the attachment points for the cross bearers, just as the pair in the last panel, next to the post, are the attachment for the body bolster, the rivets for the edge toward the center of the car are hidden by the post. These are a feature you'll find on almost all steam era freightcars, because at the time welded fabrication was uncommon. Given the location of these rivets, the CV crossbearer location appears to be correct: http://www.cvmw.com/imagecvmw/1001album/image/690_cv_1000_und2bw.jpg
Now the only question is are the crossbeares / cross ties the correct shape, and since CV went to the pains of making them different, I'd guess they had some reference material to work with. I will be up at the Lake Superior railway museum in late September. If the car is accessible, I'll see what I can do for pix. Dennis Storzek
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Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
Bill Welch
Just curious, it is known for sure there is something wrong with the CV U/F arrangement of its various members? Dennis has noted that U/F cross members did not always line up with superstructure bracing.
Bill Welch
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Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
Brad Andonian
Bill,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Please contact me off list. I am in Seattle and may be able to help
On Tuesday, August 2, 2016, 10:17 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] wrote:
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NORTHERN PACIFIC 82990 SEREIES STOCK CAR
WILLIAM PARDIE
I have not had any success in finding the layout of the structural underframe of the Northern Pacific stock car from Central Valley.
I have , however, learned that there are at least two of these cars in railroad museums. One is at the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie, Washington and the other is at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, Minisota. Hopedfully someone on this list lives in the general vacinity of one of these museums and would be kind enough to shoot a few photos of the car's underframe. Any help would be appreciated. Billl Pardie
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