Date   

Re: Jeff Wilson's Freight Cars of the '40s and '50s

Bill Welch
 

Charlie, thank you for your insight on this book. I am going to look for it at the Lisle gathering. Could you please elaborate about "Rule 11" and it utility.

Bill Welch


Re: Jeff Wilson's Freight Cars of the '40s and '50s

Charlie Duckworth
 

Bill
I received my book in the mail today and the picture quality is well done.  I only wish he'd given a location and date on the photos.  He also mentions the Car Service rules but only mentions rules 1 and 3 on returning foreign  cars and reloading foreign cars back to their home road.  I would have included an overview of rule 11 on light weighing due to its ability to pin point a date on a car when no other information is available.   

Charlie Duckworth 


Documents Changes?

Jim Betz
 

Hi all (and especially any Moderator),

Howard recently uploaded a sample Empty Car Request form (sic)
to Photos. I looked at it and liked it - as an example of a real RRs
documents/paperwork. So I tried to save a copy to my hard drive
only to discover that I can only save a LINK and not the actual
document. And I can not print it other than using a Print Screen
type of interface.

Are we no longer allowed to save the actual pics to our computers?
Was this something "only about this one pic" and the way it was
uploaded? Would we have been able to save a copy of the pic
-if- it had been uploaded to the FILES area?
- Jim B.


Re: A few freight cars

tyesac@...
 

Check out that end of track stop next to the coal dealer.  Looks like a ride from six flags!   Teh coal delivery trak appear to be about 4 feet above grade to allow bottom dropping.
 
Tom Casey
Indeed, that other left….
 
Here’s the same crossing form another angle. Interestingly, the trolley tracks on one side of the crossing do not seem to line up with those on the other side.
 
And a view from the tracks, with more cool signage. Saving this and using Photoshop to massage the dark areas should bring out a few more details.
 
 
Many of the photos in this collection seem to be documenting accident areas or locations that may be considered for right or way improvements. There are some that I just don’t quite understand, but there’s often an element of interest there. Like this image.
 
Eric Hansmann
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2015 1:08 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] A few freight cars

 
Indeed, that other left….
 
Here’s the same crossing form another angle. Interestingly, the trolley tracks on one side of the crossing do not seem to line up with those on the other side.
 
And a view from the tracks, with more cool signage. Saving this and using Photoshop to massage the dark areas should bring out a few more details.
 
 
Many of the photos in this collection seem to be documenting accident areas or locations that may be considered for right or way improvements. There are some that I just don’t quite understand, but there’s often an element of interest there. Like this image.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 11:22 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A few freight cars
 


Eric,
 
I think you meant the “other left” as we say in my family (i.e., the MOXIE sign is on the far right .)  I also noted that there are tracks in the street on the far side that seemingly dead end at the crossing, as well as tracks on the near side that do likewise, and those tracks appear to have trolley wire overhead.  One has to wonder if the trolley was severed by the railroad…
 
Regards
Bruce
 
Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
 
 
On Sep 29, 2015, at 11:52 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
There are more great signs in this view of a crossing in South Orange, NJ.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1679.jpg

Look to the far left for a large Moxie sign on a storefront. I've seen this
as painted ads on buildings but few on a store front sign that are this
large.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: Gondola internal sides

paul.doggett2472@...
 

Jim 

Thank you that's very informative.

Cheers Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Paul,

In the studies I've done of prototype freight car pictures - it is clear
to me that the interior of almost all gons was "heavily weathered"/worn.
The paint on the interiors did not seem to last very long.
That said - the wear and weathering is much different "in the corners"
than it is "in general". There seems to be a lot of dirt/grime that
accumulates in the corners (any where that two surfaces meet - even
when they are simple over-laps) but that "wear" is much less in those
areas than on the larger "flat" surfaces. In addition, if there is any
deformation of the structure - such as where something heavy has
bent the steel/marred the wood ... those areas rarely have paint
that is intact.

And specifically in my studies of "SP in the 50's" photos ...

I always like to think of weathering/wear as a "process" rather
than as an "effect".
- Jim B.


Re: Gondola internal sides

Jim Betz
 

Paul,

In the studies I've done of prototype freight car pictures - it is clear
to me that the interior of almost all gons was "heavily weathered"/worn.
The paint on the interiors did not seem to last very long.
That said - the wear and weathering is much different "in the corners"
than it is "in general". There seems to be a lot of dirt/grime that
accumulates in the corners (any where that two surfaces meet - even
when they are simple over-laps) but that "wear" is much less in those
areas than on the larger "flat" surfaces. In addition, if there is any
deformation of the structure - such as where something heavy has
bent the steel/marred the wood ... those areas rarely have paint
that is intact.

And specifically in my studies of "SP in the 50's" photos ...

I always like to think of weathering/wear as a "process" rather
than as an "effect".
- Jim B.


Re: Car Service Rules

earlyrail
 

Now approved by the keeper of the keys.

Howard Garner


Re: Covered hopper roofs

Ed Hawkins
 


On Sep 29, 2015, at 9:41 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Someone claimed the other day that the Milwaukee Road rib side box
cars used a "double raised panel" Murphy roof too. Is that true ? I
always thought their roof was a proprietary design.

Tim,
Based on what we could find on the MILW rib-side cars for the RP CYC Vol. 13 article, the Nystrom patent was for the unique design of the sides. See RP CYC Volume 13 for a list of the MILW rib-side cars and the roofs that each series came with. 

For both the MILW rib-side box cars and the covered hopper cars that received Murphy double panel welded roof (twin-panel), the roofs were specialty items not manufactured by the builder but rather supplied by Standard Railway Equipment Manufacturing Co. (or possibly Chicago-Hutchins for the earliest MILW box cars). 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: A few freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

Indeed, that other left….

 

Here’s the same crossing form another angle. Interestingly, the trolley tracks on one side of the crossing do not seem to line up with those on the other side.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1678.jpg

 

And a view from the tracks, with more cool signage. Saving this and using Photoshop to massage the dark areas should bring out a few more details.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1677.jpg

 

 

Many of the photos in this collection seem to be documenting accident areas or locations that may be considered for right or way improvements. There are some that I just don’t quite understand, but there’s often an element of interest there. Like this image.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1680.jpg

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 11:22 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A few freight cars

 



Eric,

 

I think you meant the “other left” as we say in my family (i.e., the MOXIE sign is on the far right .)  I also noted that there are tracks in the street on the far side that seemingly dead end at the crossing, as well as tracks on the near side that do likewise, and those tracks appear to have trolley wire overhead.  One has to wonder if the trolley was severed by the railroad…

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

 

On Sep 29, 2015, at 11:52 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

There are more great signs in this view of a crossing in South Orange, NJ.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1679.jpg

Look to the far left for a large Moxie sign on a storefront. I've seen this
as painted ads on buildings but few on a store front sign that are this
large.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



Re: A few freight cars

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

I think you meant the “other left” as we say in my family (i.e., the MOXIE sign is on the far right .)  I also noted that there are tracks in the street on the far side that seemingly dead end at the crossing, as well as tracks on the near side that do likewise, and those tracks appear to have trolley wire overhead.  One has to wonder if the trolley was severed by the railroad…

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Sep 29, 2015, at 11:52 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

There are more great signs in this view of a crossing in South Orange, NJ.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1679.jpg

Look to the far left for a large Moxie sign on a storefront. I've seen this
as painted ads on buildings but few on a store front sign that are this
large.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: A few freight cars

 

And rarely in block letters

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:52 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] A few freight cars







There are more great signs in this view of a crossing in South Orange, NJ.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1679.jpg

Look to the far left for a large Moxie sign on a storefront. I've seen this
as painted ads on buildings but few on a store front sign that are this
large.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 10:42 AM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A few freight cars

Love the flour ad on the building far right.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:36 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] A few freight cars

It looks like a companion image was posted yesterday. Here¹s a slightly
different view of the scene that Schuyler posted the other day.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-28-15/C1671.jpg

It seems this crossing was a busy spot.

Don¹t miss those cars on the hill in the background.


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX




From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:06 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A few freight cars


http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-27-15/C1669.jpg

More from the Steamtown archives, probably in Scranton (not verified) but
posted here for the few freight cars, the electric trolley locomotive (note
the brakie on the car being spotted or pulled out) and in particular, for
the trackwork in the foreground. Switch upon switch. Appears they really
needed the available length of track beyond the fouling points of those
switches!

Also, a VERY modelable building!

Click the ³Next photo² link a couple of times to get to a picture of the
same area today.

Schuyler

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
Posted by: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A few freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

There are more great signs in this view of a crossing in South Orange, NJ.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-29-15/C1679.jpg

Look to the far left for a large Moxie sign on a storefront. I've seen this
as painted ads on buildings but few on a store front sign that are this
large.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 10:42 AM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A few freight cars

Love the flour ad on the building far right.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:36 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] A few freight cars







It looks like a companion image was posted yesterday. Here¹s a slightly
different view of the scene that Schuyler posted the other day.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-28-15/C1671.jpg

It seems this crossing was a busy spot.

Don¹t miss those cars on the hill in the background.


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:06 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A few freight cars





http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-27-15/C1669.jpg

More from the Steamtown archives, probably in Scranton (not verified) but
posted here for the few freight cars, the electric trolley locomotive (note
the brakie on the car being spotted or pulled out) and in particular, for
the trackwork in the foreground. Switch upon switch. Appears they really
needed the available length of track beyond the fouling points of those
switches!

Also, a VERY modelable building!

Click the ³Next photo² link a couple of times to get to a picture of the
same area today.

Schuyler









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: A few freight cars

 

Love the flour ad on the building far right.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:36 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] A few freight cars







It looks like a companion image was posted yesterday. Here¹s a slightly
different view of the scene that Schuyler posted the other day.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-28-15/C1671.jpg

It seems this crossing was a busy spot.

Don¹t miss those cars on the hill in the background.


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:06 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A few freight cars





http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-27-15/C1669.jpg

More from the Steamtown archives, probably in Scranton (not verified) but
posted here for the few freight cars, the electric trolley locomotive (note
the brakie on the car being spotted or pulled out) and in particular, for
the trackwork in the foreground. Switch upon switch. Appears they really
needed the available length of track beyond the fouling points of those
switches!

Also, a VERY modelable building!

Click the ³Next photo² link a couple of times to get to a picture of the
same area today.

Schuyler









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A few freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

It looks like a companion image was posted yesterday. Here’s a slightly different view of the scene that Schuyler posted the other day.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-28-15/C1671.jpg

 

It seems this crossing was a busy spot.

 

Don’t miss those cars on the hill in the background.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:06 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A few freight cars

 




http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-27-15/C1669.jpg

 

More from the Steamtown archives, probably in Scranton (not verified) but posted here for the few freight cars, the electric trolley locomotive (note the brakie on the car being spotted or pulled out) and in particular, for the trackwork in the foreground.  Switch upon switch.  Appears they really needed the available length of track beyond the fouling points of those switches!

 

Also, a VERY modelable building!

 

Click the “Next photo” link a couple of times to get to a picture of the same area today.

 

Schuyler



Re: Covered hopper roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

Someone claimed the other day that the Milwaukee Road rib side box
cars used a "double raised panel" Murphy roof too. Is that true ? I
always thought their roof was a proprietary design.

Tim O'Connor

I glanced through RP Cyc 30 the other day. The caption for an M&StL 2 bay covered hopper said it had a double raised panel Murphy roof. I didn�t see a roof photo of this design. I have some models from that series and would like to duplicate the roof as best I can. Anyone have a photo of that roof?
Clark,

There�s an overhead view of an EJ&E car with the same type of roof in RP CYC Vol. 28 on p. 82.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins


Re: Vinegar Car?

Eric Hansmann
 

I wish for a better shot of the little Carman depot in that photo as I think it may have been a B&O M-8 class box car. There were 12,067 M-8 and subclass cars listed in the 1925 B&O Summary of Equipment. They would be phased out over the next several years as thousands of the M-26 40-foot, steel-sheathed box cars would be installed in the B&O fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 7:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Vinegar Car?

 




Are we looking at an end view of a vinegar car on this photo link?

 

http://www.west2k.com/papix/carmanfreight.jpg

 

This image is from the Pennsylvania Railroad Stations Past & Present website at:

 

http://www.west2k.com/pa.htm

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Re: A few freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

Those Lackawanna glass plate scans are a real treasure as they offer a window into the past.

 

The hopper is a DL&W car. They used the large numbers on the end without reporting marks.

 

The car deep in the scene is a New York, Philadelphia & Norfolk ventilated box car. The Philadelphia portion is abbreviated to Phila., so the road name isn’t apparent if you are looking for a full city name. It seems like the car is just being spotted or picked up as there is a brakeman on the roof at the brake wheel.

 

The Pennsylvania Lines car has an interesting detail that I had not noticed as much on earlier freight cars. Note the Wt stencil below the end marks. It seems to have been weighed recently as there is a different shade of paint under the numbers.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 11:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A few freight cars

 



Schuyler -

Nice photos, great buildings. Scranton, indeed. "Lucky Loaf" was the brand of C P Mathews & Sons of Scranton. "1795 Flour" was a brand of Miner-Hillard Milling Co.(as one can almost completely see on a sign), which relocated to Scranton 1910.  Looks like this was Scranton's milling district.

 Glad I wasn't the roadmaster responsible for maintaining those switches or the rather hazardous sidewalk crossing.

 

Boxcar in the middle appears to be Pennsylvania (Lines West). Anyone ID the hopper or ventilated box? I can't quite read the lettering on the latter.

 

Jack Mullen



Re: Covered hopper roofs

Ed Hawkins
 


On Sep 29, 2015, at 9:04 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I glanced through RP Cyc 30 the other day. The caption for an M&StL 2 bay covered hopper said it had a double raised panel Murphy roof. I didn’t see a roof photo of this design. I have some models from that series and would like to duplicate the roof as best I can. Anyone have a photo of that roof?

Clark,
There’s an overhead view of an EJ&E car with the same type of roof in RP CYC Vol. 28 on p. 82. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Covered hopper roofs

Clark Propst
 

I glanced through RP Cyc 30 the other day. The caption for an M&StL 2 bay covered hopper said it had a double raised panel Murphy roof. I didn’t see a roof photo of this design. I have some models from that series and would like to duplicate the roof as best I can. Anyone have a photo of that roof?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Gondola internal sides (UNCLASSIFIED)

paul.doggett2472@...
 

Dennis

Thank you for the information as i model the SP 1950-3 i think its almost safe to say repainted cars had their interiors painted note almost safe to say.

Cheers Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"destorzek@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 




---In STMFC@..., <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote :

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Paul;

To add to what Tony said, I can state that gon interiors, not including wooden floors, were generally painted as-built, but in the case of the PRR, they stopped painting them in repaints, beginning in the mid-fifties, as the painting instructions were re-issued.
===============

Food for thought. The old alkyd enamels used during the late steam era were pretty good sealers, as were the linseed oil paints that preceded them.  Therefore, if I was specifying the painting, I'd want the interiors to be painted to seal the lap seams and rivets, even knowing that most of the paint was going to wear off quickly. Water seeping between the plates is much more destructive than water sitting on the surface of a flat plate; the laps were going to rust out long before the field was.

Same goes for galvanized roofs. Sure the panels and seam caps were galvanized, but the rivets weren't, and likely the zinc coating under the heads was worn through from the action of driving the rivets. The difference in cost between painting just the seam caps and painting the whole roof was minimal, so at one time galvanized roofs were painted, even though it was understood the fields would blister and flake off within a few years. The paint would still be there where it counted, in the edges of the laps and around the rivets.

Some roads went to the extreme, specifying car cement over the seam caps to further waterproof the rivets.

Dennis Storzek

56021 - 56040 of 193641