Date   

Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Rib Side Cars is presently inactive due to the owner's health issues.

Alex Schneider
 


From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 9:41 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen



Speaking of company demises. Anyone have the straight skinny on “Rib Side Cars”??
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa





Rib Side Cars Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Paul Krueger
 

Ted Schnepf told me Rib Side Cars has shut down.  Their web site is still up, but does not appear to have changed for a long time.  It would be nice to see their line continue or be replicated.

Paul

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Clark Propst
 

Speaking of company demises. Anyone have the straight skinny on “Rib Side Cars”??
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

 

The box originally had a door. What the purpose for the box was, I don’t know, but an in-service photo of CRIX 20528 shows a door.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 4:42 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

In a message dated 11/6/2015 12:04:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Don't know the story of the "Dri-Protectocar", but before someone starts commenting on the weathering, the photo shows the car at the Illinois Railway Museum loooong after it was out of service. How do I know? I recognize the scaffold in the lower left of the pic.

Dennis Storzek

I agree with Dennis, I was even inside that car when it was parked at that spot. If you look closely below and to the left of the door is a box with only an opening on the front attached to the underframe, no idea what that was. I don't recall seeing anything special inside the car seemed like a typical insulated boxcar. The data at the far left is the cars "return to" information.

Mark Rickert







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: BAR 1932 Box cars

Misc Clark
 

Looking forward to the 1932 ARA box car digital version, Ted! Many thanks for your scholarship and generosity!
regards,
Clark Cone

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Ted Culotta speedwitchmedia@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This thread seems to be as good a place as any to mention that for anyone interested, I will be posting an electronic version of the 1932 ARA box car book later this week. It's been sold out for quite a few years now, and I have no plans to reprint. The e-book version will be "printable" if you choose and I will post a guide about how to do that.

Also, I am working an a small ebook addendum to the 1932 ARA book, based upon additional photos and information collected in the subsequent years.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta



Re: B&O C17 express car

Bill Lane
 

Ed

Please reply directly to bill@...

I would very much like to get whatever you have on this car.

Thanks
Bill


Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

caboose9792@...
 

 
 
In a message dated 11/6/2015 12:04:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Don't know the story of the "Dri-Protectocar", but before someone starts commenting on the weathering, the photo shows the car at the Illinois Railway Museum loooong after it was out of service. How do I know? I recognize the scaffold in the lower left of the pic.

Dennis Storzek
 
I agree with Dennis, I was even inside that car when it was parked at that spot. If you look closely below and to the left of the door is a box with only an opening on the front attached to the underframe, no idea what that was. I don't recall seeing anything special inside the car seemed like a typical insulated boxcar. The data at the far left is the cars "return to" information.
 
Mark Rickert


Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC STOCK CARS

Gene Deimling
 

Bill 
 The NP Modeler group has photos of a restored car in Duluth. 
 Gene


Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <tgregmrtn@...> wrote :

I have often wondered what happened to this tooling after the break up of Front Range and Sky Lim or if the kit even made it there. I often wondered if this was just a set of inserts that fit the mold base of the other four plus Front Range 40-foot offering. If the inserts are out there I just wonder why the haven't been run in the owners line of cars. I have heard but can not confirm that the Front Range inserts were aluminum.
===================

Some of this was due to the fact that at each sale, bankruptcy auction, change of name, some of the hard tooling assets would simply disappear, only to emerge again in a later iteration of the principle's business. This was the case with the center-beam lumber flat (too modern for this list), the GP-9, and the molded on detail boxcar of which you speak.

And yes, all the front range tooling was aluminum. The folks at Front Range always knew that aluminum tooling was perishable, but always figured they would remake parts as needed, since it was all CNC cut directly in the inserts, and they retained the toolpath programs. That changed after the firm's initial (and only, as far as I am concerned) toolmaker left to join Intermountain; then there was no one left who could actually do it.

Consequently, each subsequent owner beat the tooling to death, and then beat it to death again. When we cleaned out the assets from the Sky Lim bankruptcy, we found a literal truckload of the molded on details boxcar bodies, with no roofs or underframes; those tools had died and not been repaired or replaced. The bodies had a rather strange parting line between the sides and ends that followed the curve of the W section corners, these had been flashing badly and we decided the bodies were a total loss; we ground them and reclaimed the styrene.

The separate detail 40' car wasn't much better, and since it essentially duplicated the 40' car we already had in the line, we never did any work on it. Bill and Leon from Red Caboose expressed an interest, but wanted samples run before they would consummate the deal, so I hung the tool at our place, and, to my complete amazement, that old beater started making parts on the first shot. They signed the check.

The fifty foot car package was a floor, ends, and six different pairs of sides, so of course the inserts common to all six of the bodies had six times the wear. The Improved Dreadnaught ends from our own 40' car ere correct for the car, and could be made to work, but that required the body be revised to have the roof molded on the body, rather than the floor. The Front Range roof wasn't anything to write home about anyway, so we tooled a new roof, from steel. I have nothing against aluminum tooling, it has it's place, but high wear items are best done in hard tool steel. The doors are the original Front Range tooling... there were two pair of those Superior plug doors, along with a pair of Youngstown doors and a pair of Youngstown auxiliary doors (mo latch or tack board), all in the same tool, with no way to shut any cavities off. We used to be awash in plug doors every time we ran that tool. Finally found time last year to revise the sprue bushing on this mold, so it now selects only one set of cavities at a time. I took the opportunity to pocket out one pair of the plug doors and install a pair of superior panel doors in their place.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Greg Martin
 

Gents,
 
I am not sure ho many will recall that at the end of the FRP era they had released a 40-foot boxcar with 4-4 dreadnaught ends, with the ladders and grabs cast on the shell. Just as before the shell was formed by the floor, ends and sides with a separate underframe/center sill/bolster. The Murphy panel roof was separate and the side were 10 panel riveted, with a six foot door (I have one sitting right in front of me with a swapped out diagonal panel roof, can you guess the prototype). I remember buying mine a LONG's DRUGS in Moreno Valley as a three or four car se. I bought one set as it was cheap and challenging.  My came in NYC paint and three different numbers. The detailing was not comparable to ACCURAIL or C&BT Shops; however not bad.
 
 It is similar to but not the same as the WKW recent offering; here's link if you haven't seen the WKW offering, Walthers is far better tooling :
 
 
I have often wondered what happened to this tooling after the break up of Front Range and Sky Lim or if the kit even made it there. I often wondered if this was just a set of inserts that fit the mold base of the other four plus Front Range 40-foot offering. If the inserts are out there I just wonder why the haven't been run in the owners line of cars. I have heard but can not confirm that the Front Range inserts were aluminum.
 
Sorry Bill and Ed I didn't mean to hijack your post, just want to add to it.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 11/10/2015 6:46:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
On Nov 10, 2015, at 11:23 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

What I am fuzzy about are the 40-foot kits issued by Front Range and McKeen. Though dated, can someone remind me of the 40-foot steel cars these two companies offered, excluding the McKeen PS-1. Also looking at the InterMountain website, they also have a Postwar 40-ft car with 4/4/ ends. Is this duplicated by the Branchline kits? I thought they had a r/3/4 kit but maybe I am thinking of Accurail.

Bill,
I published a couple of articles using these models in the early 1990s Rail model Journal. The FRP models had Improved Dreadnaught ends of 1955 & later design. The kits came with a separate diagonal panel roof as the sides, ends and floor formed the body. I believe FRP also offered a Murphy panel roof, but this roof didn’t come on prototype cars with these ends that I’m aware of.

August 1992 - 12-panel welded cars with 6’ door openings (FRP 4040) and 8’ openings (FRP 4050).
April 1994 - 10-panel riveted cars with 6’ openings (FRP 4080) and 8’ openings (FRP 4070).

As was mentioned in the articles, some models could come with different side sills (tab-type or fish-belly) without a change in the catalogue number. 

One additional model offered was 4090, a 40’ box car with 13’ door opening (combination flush and sliding doors), and I’ve seen them come with both welded or riveted sides 

Branchline Trains (tooling bought by Atlas) produced models with riveted sides having 6’, 7’, and 8’ door openings and with several different ends including the one used by FRP. However, BT did not produce welded-side 40’ box cars. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Down Memory Lane-Front Range survivors

Andy Carlson
 

Many have heard about the ethically challenged situation surrounding the Front Range Products dissolution. Through settlements, bankruptcy and transfer of ownership, the tooling has been dispersed to several companies and many cars remain available today.

Of interest to me, are the Front Range 40'  and 50' box cars. The 50' car's tooling has gone to Accurail and underwent engraving of the surface details ala Athearn Blue Box. The 40' car's tooling ended up at Red Caboose where other than being an economic flop, the tooling was upgraded to finer standards. Bill at RC added the new details to the kits and RTR cars. The Red Caboose 6' and 8' 5/6/6 improved Youngstown doors are as good or better than all other offerings. As mentioned earlier by others, the 40' cars came with the mid-fifties "Banana Taper" style of final improved Dreadnaught ends.

So if I need a 50' Front Range offered box car kit, I look for them at a swap meet, where there are still many available, and often quite cheap. The 40' cars are best sourced from the Red Caboose improved versions, which are not nearly as easy to find. I suspect Intermountain has quite a few of the parts which may find their way into undec kits in the future, as I believe that rerun of parts is not necessary at this point.

The double sheathed Youngstown sliding plug door parts are nice and I can't recall any other source for this 1950s style of plug door.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: BAR 1932 Box cars

Ted Culotta
 

Replying to my own message, the 1932 ARA box car book in electronic format is available now. You can go the speedwitchmedia.com and the link is in the first post on the home page or go directly to:


Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 10, 2015, at 11:23 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

What I am fuzzy about are the 40-foot kits issued by Front Range and McKeen. Though dated, can someone remind me of the 40-foot steel cars these two companies offered, excluding the McKeen PS-1. Also looking at the InterMountain website, they also have a Postwar 40-ft car with 4/4/ ends. Is this duplicated by the Branchline kits? I thought they had a r/3/4 kit but maybe I am thinking of Accurail.

Bill,
I published a couple of articles using these models in the early 1990s Railmodel Journal. The FRP models had Improved Dreadnaught ends of 1955 & later design. The kits came with a separate diagonal panel roof as the sides, ends and floor formed the body. I believe FRP also offered a Murphy panel roof, but this roof didn’t come on prototype cars with these ends that I’m aware of.

August 1992 - 12-panel welded cars with 6’ door openings (FRP 4040) and 8’ openings (FRP 4050).
April 1994 - 10-panel riveted cars with 6’ openings (FRP 4080) and 8’ openings (FRP 4070).

As was mentioned in the articles, some models could come with different side sills (tab-type or fish-belly) without a change in the catalogue number. 

One additional model offered was 4090, a 40’ box car with 13’ door opening (combination flush and sliding doors), and I’ve seen them come with both welded or riveted sides 

Branchline Trains (tooling bought by Atlas) produced models with riveted sides having 6’, 7’, and 8’ door openings and with several different ends including the one used by FRP. However, BT did not produce welded-side 40’ box cars. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: BAR 1932 Box cars

Jack Mullen
 

Based on photos, the last 100 car lot,  65550-65649, did have 3/4 IDEs, but the previous 50 car group, 65500-65549 had 4/5 dreadnaughts with rounded corners (W corner posts). The 1938-built cars had 4/5 square-corner dreadnaughts.

Jack Mullen













Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Tim O'Connor
 

Jeff

Accurail got the 50 foot AAR box cars tooling from Front Range. The
tooling was extensively modified.

Red Caboose got the 40 foot AAR box cars tooling from Front Range. The
tooling was extensively modified.

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this many times before.

Tim O'Connor



What about Bill's other question: are any of the Accurail cars derived from the McKeen / Front Range?
Do I err in recalling that the banana-taper steel box car is the same tooling for all three companies?
Regards,
-Jeff


Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Aley, Jeff A
 

Dennis,

 

               What about Bill’s other question: are any of the Accurail cars derived from the McKeen / Front Range?  Do I err in recalling that the banana-taper steel box car is the same tooling for all three companies?

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:43 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

 

A little history of Front Range and McKeen would be welcomed and interesting too. Were there some people that were involved in both of these companies and succeeding companies?

============

Can't do it... the statute of limitations hasn't run yet. Anyway, it is really out of scope for this list. Suffice to say McKean Models predated Front Range, ended up losing his company and the name to the scoundrel who owned Front Range; Accurail was eventually granted the rights to the McKean Models name by a bankruptcy court. Front Range's lead toolmaker (who was not a scoundrel) was one of the original principles of Intermountain.

Dennis Storzek

 


Re: AHM HO "chemical" tank car questions

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Steve Johnson asked:

Would this Petro-Tex SHPX tank car -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121810102745?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
-be an example of a prototype for the old AHM HO "chemical" tank
car?

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id49.html

Does anyone know of any articles on upgrading the AHM car? Are there >decals available for any of the prototypes, including the Petro-Tex car?
Yes, that is the prototype for the AHM car. It's an ICC-105 pressure tank, presumably for propane given the shipper.

I don't know of any decals or articles about upgrading this tank. You might use the frame from an Atlas or Kadee propane tank, but I don't have either in front of me to compare lengths.

Scott Chatfield


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Woodsworks/00000285 DS 40-ton P&LE.pdf
Uploaded by : dreadonwoods <paulandclaire@...>
Description : 1919 Car Builder's Dictionary p267


You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


dreadonwoods <paulandclaire@...>


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Woodsworks/00000284 DS 40-ton P&LE.pdf
Uploaded by : dreadonwoods <paulandclaire@...>
Description : 1919 Car Builder's Dictionary p266


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Woodsworks/00000284%20DS%2040-ton%20P%26LE.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


dreadonwoods <paulandclaire@...>


Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Woody of Whangas
 

Hi Folks

I have embarked on a project to build a few boxcars in O-scale, specifically NYC lot 275-B built by Pressed Steel in 1912, kicked off by finding really good drawings in the on-line 1919 Car Builder's Dictionary p266 and 267 and then identifying it in the Canada Southern website's freight car roster - that is a hugely useful reference for anyone wanting to model NYC-system cars, for sure.

My question concerns the details of what appears to be an early Murphy roof on these cars - the drawings don't really show it well and the photo is not good either, so I am asking if anyone can please assist me with detail photos or drawings of the roof ribs and flashings?  I am intending to 3D-print masters so I can have brass castings made - the body will be etched brass - and if I'm putting all that effort in, I'd like to make them as accurate as possible.

I have saved the original on-line book pages as .pdf's; will put them in the photos section momentarily.

Thanks in advance
Paul Woods
Whangarei, NZ.


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