Date   

Re: tanks under wraps

Bruce Smith
 

Gary, Folks,

I have a much higher resolution scan of the left side of that photo than the web site does apparently.  The lead tank tarp is stenciled “M4 FRONT”.  I do not think that the tank underneath is an M4 Sherman. 

I can’t really read the placard, but the first line appears to say “NOTICE” and interestingly, it faces forward.  The tarps are fastened to the flat car deck with strips of wood, presumably nailed through the tarp.  The flat car lettering is not visible, but the repack stencil under the placard is dated 1942 and lettered “L&HRR”.  Note that this does NOT mean that the flat is an L&HRR flat.

The view really points out the variety in flat cars, and so, just as you should have the classic “stair step” boxcar fleet, you should have mix of side sill styles in the flat car fleet!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



A variety of flat cars with US Army tanks covered in wraps and each flat car appears to have a white sign in front of the tank:
 
 
gary “I can’t identify items in pictures” laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: PFE 21919 R30-13

ed_mines
 

......and I apologize to Bill Welch if he thought I was making light of his error. That was never my intention.


I too have made factual errors, even on this forum.


I know who Bill is and appreciate the contribution he's made to our hobby.


Ed Mines 



Re: PFE 21919 R30-13

ed_mines
 

Thanks for your informative replies.


I'm looking forward to the ART book.


We've already seen a nice FGE write up by way of hand out. I would be happy to buy a hard copy of that hand out with pictures.


I have a picture of R30-11 PFE15655 on my computer. It has a beat up '42-'46 UP herald and 7 grab irons on the right.


These pictures of 21919 are real finds.


Ed Mines



end reporting marks on Southern 55639 low side gon

gary laakso
 

This is an interesting placement of end reporting marks:
 
 
The kit for the 1945 built low side Southern gondola by Smokey Mountain shows the more conventional placement of the end reporting marks. 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


tanks under wraps

gary laakso
 

A variety of flat cars with US Army tanks covered in wraps and each flat car appears to have a white sign in front of the tank:
 
 
gary “I can’t identify items in pictures” laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

rhammill
 

I have a couple of related things that folks may find interesting, although neither is about cement...

First, from the New Haven Speical Car Order 2-102, February 20, 1950
These are the assignments of the NH owned covered hoppers at the time. I find the second assignment interesting, since the cars originate and terminate on railroads other than the NH. Most of the other assignments also originate off New Haven property. It's an interesting mix of loads other than cement.

New Haven owned covered hoppers temporarily assigned as follows:
117000-117002-117003
Sand loading Marion, Mass. to local destinations.

117001-117005-117005-117010-117011-117012-117013
Salt cake loading Jersey City, N.J,, on CNJ to LaTuque, Que., or Berlin N.H.

117004-117014
Manganese ore loading Port Richmond, PA., to New Haven via RDG-CNJ-NH

117006-117008-117009
Hadite loading Jewettville, N.Y., to Framingham via B&O-LV-O&W-NH.

..

Second - 

In response to the question about distance. The closest suitable product will not always be cheapest (although in the case of cement it probably was). There's an interesting section in "American Commodity Flow" by Edward L. Ullman (1957) in the data from the 1% study of waybills regarding Washington State. 

"In a splendid recent analysis, Roy Sampson shows how Washington and Douglas fir region lumber is able to compete with southern pine in spite of being almost three times as far from market. Production costs of Douglas fir lumber average 15 to 20 percent below southern pine from 1939 to 1952, with the absolute cost spread widening after the war. (This presumably reflects, among other factors, the larger size of the Northwest trees and mills, compared to the diminishing supply of  larger stands of the cutover South.) In addition, rates per ton mile are less for the long haul, as is normally the case; but even more significant, southern pine weighs up to 15 percent more per board foot than Douglas fir, and transport rates are quoted on a weight basis, whereas lumber is sold on a board-foot basis.

There's a corresponding map that shows that it cost the same to deliver lumber from the Northwest to all states north of southern VA and Kentucky and west of the Mississipi except for eastern TX. The only exception to this line is northern Missouri and Iowa where it's still cheaper to get lumber from the south.

So distance isn't the only factor at play for determining cost.

Randy Hammill
--
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  |  http://newbritainstation.com


---In STMFC@..., <mark_landgraf@...> wrote :

Prior to the bulk loading of cement, it was shipped in bags in box cars. Many of this countries transcontinental highways, built in the 1920s were built this way. 

In the 1935-1937 is when dedicated fleet of covered hoppers and cement bulk containers started showing up. NE Pennsylvania was the starting area. These dedicated cars had steep slope sheet - about 80 degrees - that provided easier self unloading of the dense cement. A retrofitted coal hopper - with 120 degree slope sheets - did not self unload very well. Much cement needed to be either vibrated out or manually assisted out of the cars.  This why the retro cars did not catch on. The RRs bought the dedicated covered hoppers. 

Distance shipped - every ton mile costs money. The closest suitable product will be the cheapest. You would only buy a premium product if you needed a premium product, but even then the closest will likely be the cheapest. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


Re: Bulk Cement Shipments - Models

Clark Propst
 

There are a number of 2 bay covered hopper models available. Bowser, and Intermountain sell the 1958 cu ft model. Sometimes you can find Kato’s version at swap meets. Atlas and Kadee make the PS2 car. Kadee does both versions (older newer). Stick with a single railroad’s cars or local roads that might serve a concrete plant on your layout.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
I have been following the BULK CEMENT conversations with great interest. Having grown up in Elizabeth, NJ, about two block from the Eport yard I remember seeing cars with gray streaks on them: now I know what they were. For me, the million dollar question is, what models exist? I'm on a very tight budget, but that will not preclude me from building a "fleet of cars" over time. I am modeling the fall of 1955. I am not modeling a specific prototype, but rather proto-lancing and minimally would like to have prototype cars running on the layout.


Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Rich Ramik



Re: What is this car?

tyesac@...
 

Indeed!  The PDS that Martin included with the kit shows the the Fast Mail crossing Diablo Canyon bridge and there is at least two of the NYC cars in that train, as well as several PRR (B60 's and converted x29's) cars.   Any one of either NYC or PRR head end cars also show up in ATSF trains heading over Thehacapi on the way to Oakland.
 
Tom Casey
I caught Andy Sperandeo at a Naperville meet a few years back as he left the Sunshine sales room with a NYC milk/express car under his arm.  
I asked Andy if he was going to change prototypes (as if...). "No," he said, "these showed up all time in the Santa Fe mail train that ran over Cajon - mostly carrying magazines from east coast markets.

Marty McGuirk
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mjmcguirk@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 7:11 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?

 
I caught Andy Sperandeo at a Naperville meet a few years back as he left the Sunshine sales room with a NYC milk/express car under his arm.  
I asked Andy if he was going to change prototypes (as if...). "No," he said, "these showed up all time in the Santa Fe mail train that ran over Cajon - mostly carrying magazines from east coast markets.

Marty McGuirk


Re: Bulk Cement Shipments - Models

O Fenton Wells
 

The Intermountain 1958 cu ft cars are my favorites for 1953.  These are square hatch.  Also check out F&C as they have some interesting ones as well.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe

Bruce Smith
 

Chuck,

Absolutely.  It was (and is) very common for railroads to designate a “high and wide” train where these loads are concentrated.  At least on my prototype, that train ran on the weekends to minimize opposing traffic.  Such trains might have restricted speeds and be limited as to where they could meet opposing movements.  Thus H&W loads might sit in a yard somewhere somewhat longer than the average car, waiting for their special movement.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Mar 13, 2016, at 11:04 PM, STMFC@... wrote:



 don't thin the two large loads atr necissaariily tto the same destination or ship. It could be that the ATSF chaose to move the two loads coupled togethre.

Chuck Y Louisville CO




Re: battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe

riverman_vt@...
 

Thank you Brian. That would make a lot more sense especially since the Watervliet (NY) Arsenal
was right between Albany and Troy on the D&H and that is where most of these naval rifles came 
from. Am I correct I thinking the rest of the cars handling the rifle are Pennsy or might they be an
earlier typr of D&H flat I am unfamiliar with?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: What is this car?

riverman_vt@...
 

   My money says the the car next to the troop sleeper is a NYC express reefer since they
had ice bunkers. The next car is probably also a NYC car but a milk car for carrying milk in 
40 qt. cans. These normally had six vents, NOT fans, along the roof centerline. The one on
the near end appears to be missing, which does not surprise me given what appear to be
patches on both ends of the roof. The Rutland had the exact same type of milk car but this
is way too far away for it to be a Rutland #340 series milk car. The milk car has been offered
in brass by Alco Models, Custom Brass and Railworks, in that order of release. Custom Brass 
offered the express reefer version as well and also a sliding door version that I understand was 
a later conversion often used for mail.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: What is this car?

Marty McGuirk
 

I caught Andy Sperandeo at a Naperville meet a few years back as he left the Sunshine sales room with a NYC milk/express car under his arm.  

I asked Andy if he was going to change prototypes (as if...). "No," he said, "these showed up all time in the Santa Fe mail train that ran over Cajon - mostly carrying magazines from east coast markets.


Marty McGuirk



Re: battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe

drgwrail
 

 don't thin the two large loads atr necissaariily tto the same destination or ship. It could be that the ATSF chaose to move the two loads coupled togethre.

Chuck Y Louisville CO


Re: battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe

tyesac@...
 

I wonder which route it took over the Santa Fe via Raton Pass, or the Belen cut-off.   It would have been quite a sight crossing the bridges at Abbo canyon, If the Northern route, is had to go pass Wooton ranch, the tunnel at6 Raton & glorietta Pass, over the spider bride in Apache canyon.
 
Tom Casey
The spacer is D&H 16109, which is part of the group from 16000-16150 of 33 foot flat cars with a capacity of 85,000 lbs.  As of 1943 there were 86 cars in this series.  There are no L&H reporting marks at this time.

The gun flats are PRR F22 flats and the car is headed over Cajon pass.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:37 PM
To: stmfc
Subject: [STMFC] battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe
 


One of the spacer flat cars is L&H:
 
 
Given my identifications today, I am not going to guess what the large vessel behind the gun barrel is!
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Mar 13, 2016 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe

 
The spacer is D&H 16109, which is part of the group from 16000-16150 of 33 foot flat cars with a capacity of 85,000 lbs.  As of 1943 there were 86 cars in this series.  There are no L&H reporting marks at this time.

The gun flats are PRR F22 flats and the car is headed over Cajon pass.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:37 PM
To: stmfc
Subject: [STMFC] battleship gun barrel on the Santa Fe
 


One of the spacer flat cars is L&H:
 
 
Given my identifications today, I am not going to guess what the large vessel behind the gun barrel is!
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



repair notation

gary laakso
 

The switchman’s precarious position allows the full view of the caption at the bottom left side of the single sheathed boxcar:
 
Repaired by
DS Inc
East Roch. NY
11-24-41 
 
 
While I admit that I have not been looking in that position before, this is a new caption to me.  Likely the Dispatch Shops and was this confided to NYC or did other railroads add this notation on the side of their cars?
 
gary laakso
taking a break from adding grab irons to boxcars
south of Mike Brock


Bulk Cement Shipments - Models

richramik@...
 

I have been following the BULK CEMENT conversations with great interest.  Having grown up in Elizabeth, NJ, about two block from the Eport yard I remember seeing cars with gray streaks on them: now I know what they were.  For me, the million dollar question is, what models exist?  I'm on a very tight budget, but that will not preclude me from building a "fleet of cars" over time.  I am modeling the fall of 1955.  I am not modeling a specific prototype, but rather proto-lancing and minimally would like to have prototype cars running on the layout.


Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Rich Ramik


Re: Steve Hoxie's S_N_T BX-28/31 car build

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Not at all, Greg.  I revised the list settings to allow attachments, so this should (and did) work.  I think it will also allow images to be embedded in the emails, but not sure about that.

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:21 AM
To: Shake_N_Take@...; resinfreightcars@...; STMFC@...
Cc: stevehprr@...; JGreedy@...
Subject: [STMFC] Steve Hoxie's S_N_T BX-28/31 car build

 

 

Hey Yuze Gize,

Here is a link to Steve Hoxie's recently completed ATSF BX-28 S_N_T USRA
rebuilt car. The car is nicely built and what I find most interesting is
the weathering he has applies, it is really well represented. I will let Steve
address his weathering process. I have urged Steve to join the Resin
Freight car list as well.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Shake_N_Take/photos/albums/1180061535

Now Schuyler is likely to imprison me for sending attachments but I want to
see if it works.

For those that don't belong I will try an attachment to see if it works.
If not then I will try to embed the image.

Thanks,

Greg Martin


Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What is this car?

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
"Dang… knock me down with a feather!  A NYC milk car in California. I’d never have guessed that."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Southern-Pacific-Original-Negative-Aerial-View-Oakland-Pier-1949-/262332031082?

It may have started life as a milk car, but I doubt it was carrying milk in this photo.  Possible number series of this car are:

NYC 6400-6430
NYC 6431-6483
NYC 6485-6535
NYC 6536-6555
NYC 6556-6575
NYC 6576-6605
NYC 6611-6660

103 of these cars were converted to baggage express cars and renumbered to NYC 9797-9899.

Photos:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-6443.jpghttp://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-6654.jpg

Go to
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS2.htm#milk for more details.


Ben Hom


Re: What is this car?

Dave Nelson
 

Dang… knock me down with a  feather!  A NYC milk car in California. I’d never have guessed that.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What is this car?

 



It looks like a New York Central milk car. They were sometimes used in express service along with the Central's very similar express reefers.

-Phil

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