Date   

Re: Car Service Rules

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Jim & Group,

I have been lurking on this thread and have greatly enjoyed the knowledge that has been learned. 

That said, I am a bit confused by Jim’s question… Would not any foreign road car loaded in Roseburg head eastward would be considered a proper loading per the Car Service Rules?

I do not believe that the “rules” specifically state that the foreign car must be loaded and shipped to a destination on that specific foreign railroad as long as it is headed more or less in the general direction of that home road. 

Let’s say that load of plywood is billed to a purchaser located in Vinita, Oklahoma, (served by either the MKT or SLSF … I will let you choose which of the two) and that plywood is loaded into a PRR box car. As long as that PRR box car is getting closer to home — closer to Chicago or St. Louis, the two major connection points as an example — the car is being moved in compliance with the Car Service Rules. 

With the general population ratio of foreign road to home road cars on the SP being anywhere from 3 out of three to perhaps 4 out of 5 box cars it is doubtful if there would be an issue or difficulty having an empty foreign road car available to send eastward. 

The above is just my thoughts and a crude understanding of the “rules”. I am looking forward to learning more.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 6, 2015, at 10:48 AM, jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Dan and all,

  Please remember that in all of this thread what -I'm- talking
about/interested in is the ubiquitous box car and not about
special purpose cars or cars with "return to sender" on them
or cars that are "contaminated" by the load(s) they carry.

  Your last response helps - but it still prompts me to ask ... just 
how much effort - or delayed delivery to the shipper - did the 
RRs really go to in order to satisfy the car service rules?
  I'm guessing that most shippers were unhappy with any delays 
in the delivery of the car (for most loads for most shippers).  
Storing product (what ever product it is) for extended time can 
be a problem for the shipper (additional cost).  

  Using the Roseburg plywood mill as an example - I would
suspect that the car service rules (using a foreign car) were
primarily used for cars that were already in Roseburg ...
that were being continuously re-supplied by empties from
Eugene.  And those re-supply empties would definitely be
using/considering the car service rules.  I'm operating 
under the assumption that Roseburg - as a city/area -
had a definite imbalance in terms of loads in -vs- loads
out ... the mills there would be producing far more loads
than would be 'consumed' by the population/industries
in Roseburg.  So there had to be a constant supply of 
empties coming to Roseburg from Eugene (and possibly
elsewhere).
  But if the supply of foreign empties wasn't keeping up with 
the demand - right there in Roseburg - then I would expect
that Roseburg (and then Eugene) would be using whatever
box car is available ... even if it meant sending a GN or an
SP car to St. Louis.
  In fact - if I understand the basic idea of "keeping the cars
busy (loaded more than not)" correctly ===> any box car 
that took a -load- to Roseburg  would probably be the 
"first choice" for a car to be loaded in Roseburg.  Yes,
they would have tried to use the car service rules - but
it doesn't make a lot of sense to haul that car empty to
Eugene ... and another empty from Eugene to Roseburg ...
in order to satisfy the car service rules.

  Your response seems to imply that it was actually more
profitable to use a foreign car for a shipment to a foreign
destination.  I 'sort of' understand why you are saying that - 
but it just doesn't seem to "fit" with my understanding of 
how revenue flowed for loaded cars versus empties.
  My suspicion is that the reluctance to send home road
cars off road would be directly related to longer term
trends (over time) - rather than the immediate need to
supply a car for a load (now/short term).  And similarly
if the car is from a foreign road ... but the load isn't to a
destination that makes sense (by the car service rules).
  In fact the car service rules themselves have "wiggle
words" in them in that the further you go down the list
the less "correspondence" there is between the destination
and the owning RR.

  Yes, obviously, if the car selected can be loaded, 
transported, and unloaded ... all on home rails and 
using a home road car ... the revenue was significantly
increased for the RR ===> assuming that it was going
to a destination where it can easily be re-used for 
another load.  Going anywhere.  But I also suspect
that those kind of loads were relatively rare (for box
cars).

  Am I all wet here or do I have the basics right?

                                                                           - Jim B.



Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car

mwbauers
 

The system they are using is creating shortages several months before the product is even built.

That just doesn’t seem to be a healthy sign that the bean counters in charge really know what they are doing.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 6, 2015, at 1:54 PM, SUVCWORR wrote:


Dealer orders were due 9/4  with a delivery date of spring 2016.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: tony 


I will definitely want a Penn Salt and a PPG car, maybe others, but these are some way off, are they Not?
Tony Thompson 


Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car

SUVCWORR@...
 


Dealer orders were due 9/4  with a delivery date of spring 2016.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: tony tony@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2015 1:35 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car



I will definitely want a Penn Salt and a PPG car, maybe others, but these are some way off, are they Not?
Tony Thompson



On Sep 5, 2015, at 6:55 AM, SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] < STMFC@...> wrote:

 


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Justin May’s link to this photo:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg

Shows by the shadow of the ladder that bent ladders not completely parallel to the side of the car are not just a modeler’s problem, but the prototype’s problem too . . .

 

Schuyler

 



Bill,

The prototype series were as follows:

45001-45385, 385 cars built 1945 through 1946 from Youngstown steel body parts. They featured a 7'/8' door combination, Universal 200W hand brakes, with Miner draft gear. The cars also featured alternate center riveting on the sides of the car, and were 10'6" interior height with 4/4 IDE ends. In 1962 and again in 1965, the cars were renumbered into 2400-2599 and 2600-2749. I could not locate any of the as constructed photos online, however, there are several examples of detail photos of the car features. The most glaring error is that the Red Caboose is a 10'0" IH car whereas the prototype is 10'6" IH. The side sill needs to be extended further so that it is deeper, and the ACR pattern applied.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2697akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=93479&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3888766
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2385682

A better alternative to this car would be to use an older Front Range 4090 40' double door series kit, replace the ends with Branchline 4-4 IDE ends, shape the side sill using styrene, replace the roof with a Murphy panel roof, apply Archer ACR rivet decals, and other specific details, then letter with the new Speedwitch MKT decals.

Justin May


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

Armand Premo
 


Speaking of auto boxcars (XA) conspicuously absent are NYC cars.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2015 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

 

The red caboose cars are pretty accurate for the SOO, square corners, and Seaboard, round corners. 

40 ft auto cars were very prototype specific. 

It's not the Red Caboose, Intermountain actually, doesn't  care it's that they have to amortize the models. 
Information on these cars exists in the list archives. 
Brian J. Carlson

On Sep 6, 2015, at 1:06 PM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Wow...this is really disappointing...it seems that almost nothing is right about this car...


I knew Red Caboose wasn't perfect, but I thought they cared more than this sorry example...this isn't any better than Walthers (which I no longer purchase)...


Live and learn...I really must research more before I buy...


In any case, thanks very much for the info




From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Justin May jmay59@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 9:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
 
 

> What is wrong with the recently released IM/Red Caboose car (it seems to match data in my 1949 ORER)?

Bill,

The prototype series were as follows:

45001-45385, 385 cars built 1945 through 1946 from Youngstown steel body parts. They featured a 7'/8' door combination, Universal 200W hand brakes, with Miner draft gear. The cars also featured alternate center riveting on the sides of the car, and were 10'6" interior height with 4/4 IDE ends. In 1962 and again in 1965, the cars were renumbered into 2400-2599 and 2600-2749. I could not locate any of the as constructed photos online, however, there are several examples of detail photos of the car features. The most glaring error is that the Red Caboose is a 10'0" IH car whereas the prototype is 10'6" IH. The side sill needs to be extended further so that it is deeper, and the ACR pattern applied.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2697akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=93479&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3888766
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2385682

A better alternative to this car would be to use an older Front Range 4090 40' double door series kit, replace the ends with Branchline 4-4 IDE ends, shape the side sill using styrene, replace the roof with a Murphy panel roof, apply Archer ACR rivet decals, and other specific details, then letter with the new Speedwitch MKT decals.

Justin May

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4830 / Virus Database: 4365/10586 - Release Date: 09/06/15


Intermountain kits & RTR for sale

genegreen1942@...
 

FOR SALE.  Prices as noted below.


INTERMOUNTAIN N SCALE

65773 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1948-49 w/Youngstown door

4 available at $10 each plus shipping.


65777 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1960 w/Youngstown door

6 available at $10 each plus shipping.


65778 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1960 w/Superior door

6 available at $10 each plus shipping.


PLEASE NOTE:  The above are N scale.  Below is HO scale.


HO Scale undecorated Intermountain kits.  All are new, untouched,

gray plastic in original boxes.


Price per kit is $16.00, plus actual shipping charge.

Quantities available as indicated.

 

ITEM......DESCRIPTION......................................QTY


40495...40' PS-1 standard box car w/7' door....1 

40497...40' PS-1 standard box car w/8' door....1 

40499...40' PS-1 box car w/6' door.....................1 

40599...R-40-23 refrigerator car........................1 

40799...10' IH AAR box car 40' w/6'door .......6 

40899...10'-6" high AAR box car 40' w/6' door..6

41099...12 panel 40' box car w/6' door.........3

41899...Modified AAR 40' box car....................1 

42750A..Caswell gondola with AB Brake.........2 

42750K..Caswell gondola with K Brake...........2 

42999...Stock car K brake..................................1 

43299...Milk car kit..............................................1 

CCS1199..ATSF early steel caboose..............1 


INTERMOUNTAIN RTR Freight Cars (NOT KITS)

45835-03...40' mod. '37 AAR box car 10'6" Santa Fe Bx-37-Chief...1 $29.60

46072-12...40' WW II emergency box car CNW...................................1 $24.00

46071-16...40' WW II emergency box car Santa Fe............................1 $24.00


Please contact me off list at genegreen1942 at yahoo dot com.


Gene Green

Out in the Badlands of New Mexico



Re: Any Recommendations on the C&O Freight Cars 1937-1946 book?

water.kresse@...
 

Gary,
 
Ted's version was a copy of a second C&O Freight Department publication made in 1945. A couple of those originals have surfaced recently I believe. Carl Shaver is still Chief C&O FC Mentor. Spreading the tasks around made it do-able.
 
Al


From: "gary laakso vasa0vasa@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 12:48:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Any Recommendations on the C&O Freight Cars 1937-1946 book?

 
Thank you both for your reviews; I ordered a copy of the book.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock




On Sep 5, 2015, at 5:39 PM, gfitzgerald111@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

The book is very nicely done and is essentially a hardcover update with some additions of the earlier C&OHS publication "Freight Car Equipment of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway, August 1, 1937." That book was edited by Earl Shaver and produced in softcover in 1980 and was later reproduced in revised form in 1989. As far as I know those were the only two publication runs of that text -I could be wrong- and both are out of print... but a copy can be found online or at a train show if you look hard enough. 


The Shaver text was about 170 pages. The 2015 book, which lists Carl Shaver, Al Kresse, and Karen Parker as the authors, runs about 225 pages and has more photos as well as some newer WWII and postwar material and as such is much more fully updated to "later" periods. 

If you do not have the earlier book you should definitely purchase this new version. Even if you have the older book this is a nice edition to the library if you are a C&O freight car geek or just a more run of the mill freight car geek. Al Kresse knows as much about C&O freight car history as anyone else alive. Overall it is a very useful freight car modeling guide and pretty much supersedes everything else the C&OHS has produced to date when looking at the overall C&O freight car fleet.  At 35 dollars it it a nice purchase, especially since it is hardcover.  Photo quality -all B&W as i think about it- is pretty good throughout as are the car diagrams.

I still have an original soft cover copy of  "Chesapeake & Ohio Freight Cars to 1945" that was "complied" by Dean Freytag and Ted Wetterstroem back in 1974 which ran 52 pages. That I suppose is where this book project really began.

Best,

Gerard

Gerard J. Fitzgerald
Charlottesville, Virginia




Re: RE; Car Service Rules

George Eichelberger
 

I have no doubt the Southern did not send cars off line simply because they had an excessive supply. There are multiple Southern Railway AFEs (Authorization for Expenditures) available that specifically mention positive per diem balances as part of the rationale to purchase the equipment. Is the comment about western and eastern roads based on specific documentation or someone’s assumptions? Does the extensive AAR documentation on car availability and car purchases in the years after the war confirm this eastern-western theory?

I would be very interested in seeing any primary research information that describes cars being trapped by the ACL, SAL, L&N or Southern. I recognize that various railroads entered bankruptcy during the depression, after the war and into the (forbidden) modern era. I also recognize that of the railroads I mention, only the SAL ever went through a bankruptcy, none were dismembered, abandoned a large part of their system or found themselves in such dire straits that they sold or merged themselves out of existence. (I believe it is correct to consider the RI, MILW and SP “western” roads?)


Re: Car Service Rules

Jim Betz
 

Dan and all,

  Please remember that in all of this thread what -I'm- talking
about/interested in is the ubiquitous box car and not about
special purpose cars or cars with "return to sender" on them
or cars that are "contaminated" by the load(s) they carry.

  Your last response helps - but it still prompts me to ask ... just
how much effort - or delayed delivery to the shipper - did the
RRs really go to in order to satisfy the car service rules?
  I'm guessing that most shippers were unhappy with any delays
in the delivery of the car (for most loads for most shippers). 
Storing product (what ever product it is) for extended time can
be a problem for the shipper (additional cost). 

  Using the Roseburg plywood mill as an example - I would
suspect that the car service rules (using a foreign car) were
primarily used for cars that were already in Roseburg ...
that were being continuously re-supplied by empties from
Eugene.  And those re-supply empties would definitely be
using/considering the car service rules.  I'm operating
under the assumption that Roseburg - as a city/area -
had a definite imbalance in terms of loads in -vs- loads
out ... the mills there would be producing far more loads
than would be 'consumed' by the population/industries
in Roseburg.  So there had to be a constant supply of
empties coming to Roseburg from Eugene (and possibly
elsewhere).
  But if the supply of foreign empties wasn't keeping up with
the demand - right there in Roseburg - then I would expect
that Roseburg (and then Eugene) would be using whatever
box car is available ... even if it meant sending a GN or an
SP car to St. Louis.
  In fact - if I understand the basic idea of "keeping the cars
busy (loaded more than not)" correctly ===> any box car
that took a -load- to Roseburg  would probably be the
"first choice" for a car to be loaded in Roseburg.  Yes,
they would have tried to use the car service rules - but
it doesn't make a lot of sense to haul that car empty to
Eugene ... and another empty from Eugene to Roseburg ...
in order to satisfy the car service rules.

  Your response seems to imply that it was actually more
profitable to use a foreign car for a shipment to a foreign
destination.  I 'sort of' understand why you are saying that -
but it just doesn't seem to "fit" with my understanding of
how revenue flowed for loaded cars versus empties.
  My suspicion is that the reluctance to send home road
cars off road would be directly related to longer term
trends (over time) - rather than the immediate need to
supply a car for a load (now/short term).  And similarly
if the car is from a foreign road ... but the load isn't to a
destination that makes sense (by the car service rules).
  In fact the car service rules themselves have "wiggle
words" in them in that the further you go down the list
the less "correspondence" there is between the destination
and the owning RR.

  Yes, obviously, if the car selected can be loaded,
transported, and unloaded ... all on home rails and
using a home road car ... the revenue was significantly
increased for the RR ===> assuming that it was going
to a destination where it can easily be re-used for
another load.  Going anywhere.  But I also suspect
that those kind of loads were relatively rare (for box
cars).

  Am I all wet here or do I have the basics right?

                                                                           - Jim B.


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

Brian Carlson
 

The red caboose cars are pretty accurate for the SOO, square corners, and Seaboard, round corners. 

40 ft auto cars were very prototype specific. 

It's not the Red Caboose, Intermountain actually, doesn't  care it's that they have to amortize the models. 
Information on these cars exists in the list archives. 
Brian J. Carlson

On Sep 6, 2015, at 1:06 PM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Wow...this is really disappointing...it seems that almost nothing is right about this car...


I knew Red Caboose wasn't perfect, but I thought they cared more than this sorry example...this isn't any better than Walthers (which I no longer purchase)...


Live and learn...I really must research more before I buy...


In any case, thanks very much for the info




From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Justin May jmay59@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 9:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
 
 

> What is wrong with the recently released IM/Red Caboose car (it seems to match data in my 1949 ORER)?

Bill,

The prototype series were as follows:

45001-45385, 385 cars built 1945 through 1946 from Youngstown steel body parts. They featured a 7'/8' door combination, Universal 200W hand brakes, with Miner draft gear. The cars also featured alternate center riveting on the sides of the car, and were 10'6" interior height with 4/4 IDE ends. In 1962 and again in 1965, the cars were renumbered into 2400-2599 and 2600-2749. I could not locate any of the as constructed photos online, however, there are several examples of detail photos of the car features. The most glaring error is that the Red Caboose is a 10'0" IH car whereas the prototype is 10'6" IH. The side sill needs to be extended further so that it is deeper, and the ACR pattern applied.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2697akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=93479&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3888766
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2385682

A better alternative to this car would be to use an older Front Range 4090 40' double door series kit, replace the ends with Branchline 4-4 IDE ends, shape the side sill using styrene, replace the roof with a Murphy panel roof, apply Archer ACR rivet decals, and other specific details, then letter with the new Speedwitch MKT decals.

Justin May


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

bill stanton
 

Wow...this is really disappointing...it seems that almost nothing is right about this car...


I knew Red Caboose wasn't perfect, but I thought they cared more than this sorry example...this isn't any better than Walthers (which I no longer purchase)...


Live and learn...I really must research more before I buy...


In any case, thanks very much for the info




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Justin May jmay59@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 9:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
 
 

> What is wrong with the recently released IM/Red Caboose car (it seems to match data in my 1949 ORER)?

Bill,

The prototype series were as follows:

45001-45385, 385 cars built 1945 through 1946 from Youngstown steel body parts. They featured a 7'/8' door combination, Universal 200W hand brakes, with Miner draft gear. The cars also featured alternate center riveting on the sides of the car, and were 10'6" interior height with 4/4 IDE ends. In 1962 and again in 1965, the cars were renumbered into 2400-2599 and 2600-2749. I could not locate any of the as constructed photos online, however, there are several examples of detail photos of the car features. The most glaring error is that the Red Caboose is a 10'0" IH car whereas the prototype is 10'6" IH. The side sill needs to be extended further so that it is deeper, and the ACR pattern applied.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2697akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=93479&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3888766
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2385682

A better alternative to this car would be to use an older Front Range 4090 40' double door series kit, replace the ends with Branchline 4-4 IDE ends, shape the side sill using styrene, replace the roof with a Murphy panel roof, apply Archer ACR rivet decals, and other specific details, then letter with the new Speedwitch MKT decals.

Justin May


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

bill stanton
 

ok...thanks...I just measured and the red caboose rr-38580 has 6 ft doors [☹]


________________________________
From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 9:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..



The MKT 40-ft steel auto cars had two eight-foot doors and improved Dreadnaught ends. I don't think the IM car has either of these features.

Fenton, Speedwitch offered a SS MKT car kit.

Bill Welch


Re: Any Recommendations on the C&O Freight Cars 1937-1946 book?

gary laakso
 

Thank you both for your reviews; I ordered a copy of the book.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock




On Sep 5, 2015, at 5:39 PM, gfitzgerald111@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

The book is very nicely done and is essentially a hardcover update with some additions of the earlier C&OHS publication "Freight Car Equipment of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway, August 1, 1937." That book was edited by Earl Shaver and produced in softcover in 1980 and was later reproduced in revised form in 1989. As far as I know those were the only two publication runs of that text -I could be wrong- and both are out of print... but a copy can be found online or at a train show if you look hard enough. 

The Shaver text was about 170 pages. The 2015 book, which lists Carl Shaver, Al Kresse, and Karen Parker as the authors, runs about 225 pages and has more photos as well as some newer WWII and postwar material and as such is much more fully updated to "later" periods. 

If you do not have the earlier book you should definitely purchase this new version. Even if you have the older book this is a nice edition to the library if you are a C&O freight car geek or just a more run of the mill freight car geek. Al Kresse knows as much about C&O freight car history as anyone else alive. Overall it is a very useful freight car modeling guide and pretty much supersedes everything else the C&OHS has produced to date when looking at the overall C&O freight car fleet.  At 35 dollars it it a nice purchase, especially since it is hardcover.  Photo quality -all B&W as i think about it- is pretty good throughout as are the car diagrams.

I still have an original soft cover copy of  "Chesapeake & Ohio Freight Cars to 1945" that was "complied" by Dean Freytag and Ted Wetterstroem back in 1974 which ran 52 pages. That I suppose is where this book project really began.

Best,

Gerard

Gerard J. Fitzgerald
Charlottesville, Virginia



Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

Justin May <jmay59@...>
 

What is wrong with the recently released IM/Red Caboose car (it seems to match data in my 1949 ORER)?
Bill,

The prototype series were as follows:

45001-45385, 385 cars built 1945 through 1946 from Youngstown steel body parts. They featured a 7'/8' door combination, Universal 200W hand brakes, with Miner draft gear. The cars also featured alternate center riveting on the sides of the car, and were 10'6" interior height with 4/4 IDE ends. In 1962 and again in 1965, the cars were renumbered into 2400-2599 and 2600-2749. I could not locate any of the as constructed photos online, however, there are several examples of detail photos of the car features. The most glaring error is that the Red Caboose is a 10'0" IH car whereas the prototype is 10'6" IH. The side sill needs to be extended further so that it is deeper, and the ACR pattern applied.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2697akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=93479&Page=2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3888766
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2385682

A better alternative to this car would be to use an older Front Range 4090 40' double door series kit, replace the ends with Branchline 4-4 IDE ends, shape the side sill using styrene, replace the roof with a Murphy panel roof, apply Archer ACR rivet decals, and other specific details, then letter with the new Speedwitch MKT decals.

Justin May


Re: RE; Car Service Rules

lstt100
 

"When Empty Return To" dates from at least WWII and probably earlier.  I won't venture a guess on the fist application.  This stenciling on the side of the car was an early effort to get cars that were in assigned service(specially equipped cars) and cars loaded with contaminated commodities back to there loading point without clerks having to dig for the information.  Some railroads did stencil this on cars that were free running equipment in an attempt to get their equipment back home.  Contaminated cars and cars with special equipment were sent back per Car Service Directives(CSD).  Car Service Rules still applied to the free running equipment.

Most western carriers had better maintained and newer equipment and thus when they got "out East" more often than not they would become trapped and used for loading, some not returning for months or even years.  Bill Dick has commented on this on the list.  Loading home road equipment to off-line destinations for per diem purposes was usually caused by an excess of on-line equipment and the owner having insufficient business.  This caused some carriers to ship foreign empties home and use home road equipment for loads.  It happened but was not a recommended Car Service Division practice.

Dan


Re: RE; Car Service Rules

lstt100
 

Bill,

Before telephone agent would telegraph requests to other agents served by the local and the yard that madeup the local serving his station.  Lacking a positive response for car supply, most yards would forward a request to a division car distributor.  Once telephone became popular it was a matter of having a conversation on the phone.  I never was exposed to the telegraph mode, just telephone.

The "Station on Hand Reports" that we made out usually provided enough information to solve our car supply problems with a few phone calls. 

Prior to teletype and computers it was a labor intensive process.  Railroads had an army of clerks to solve all these problems.

Dan


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

Bill Welch
 

The MKT 40-ft steel auto cars had two eight-foot doors and improved Dreadnaught ends. I don't think the IM car has either of these features.

Fenton, Speedwitch offered a SS MKT car kit.

Bill Welch


Re: Is this Prototypical

bill stanton
 

the number series and dimensional data on the car agree with what is in my 1949 ORER as type XMR with 15' door opening.


Re: RE; Car Service Rules

George Eichelberger
 

Did all railroads approach using foreign and home road cars for off-line destinations the same way? When did "When Empty Return To...." markings and corresponding car service rules begin?

I ask because the Southern Railway records are full of examples where the railroad made a point that its per diem balances were usually positive and a good source of revenue. In other words, loading SR cars to offline destinations was not seen as a problem.....in most cases. At the height of the incentive per diem car boom (admittedly after the STMFC era), the Southern purchased 50 foot box cars that were intended to be basically free running.

I mentioned to the list some time ago that the other railroads would "trap" Southern cars for use on their lines because they did not have sufficient equipment of their own. The NYC after WWII was an example. At a time of rapidly increasing car purchase costs, paying per diem could be seen as a less costly option.


Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..

bill stanton
 

don't know about decals, but still wondering what is wrong with IM car?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 8:43 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
 
 

Didn't Speedwitch offer this car in resin Bill, and with the correct decals?

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...

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