Date   

Re: car builders ends.

Brian Carlson
 

Schuyler: 
Stan R offers the ends in HO. He offers two types as well as a kitbash in a box. See his listing on Jim Hayes's sunshine site. http://www.sunshinekits.com/index.html
Look under links. 

Brian J. Carlson

On May 24, 2015, at 10:17 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks, Bob.  I didn’t realize that early PS ends (which is my take-away from your post) had such tapered ends to their corrugations as that.  Or that they were as flat at the apogee of the curvature as these are, or at least appear to be.  Certainly later PS ends have very much rounder ribs in cross section.

 

Knowing that Hutchins ends varied quite a bit over the duration of their manufacture, and with the rather pronounced triangular taper at the ends, I dismissed the idea that they would be PS ends.

 

Schuyler

 

Schuyler,

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS.  I believe  Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Re: completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bob.  I didn’t realize that early PS ends (which is my take-away from your post) had such tapered ends to their corrugations as that.  Or that they were as flat at the apogee of the curvature as these are, or at least appear to be.  Certainly later PS ends have very much rounder ribs in cross section.

 

Knowing that Hutchins ends varied quite a bit over the duration of their manufacture, and with the rather pronounced triangular taper at the ends, I dismissed the idea that they would be PS ends.

 

Schuyler

 

Schuyler,

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS.  I believe  Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Re: completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

rwitt_2000
 

Schuyler,

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS.  I believe  Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Re: completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Tony.

 

I have downloaded and copied the information on your blog post, and since I have one of the Mantua cars and WLE is of some appeal to me, I may eventually get around to doing this car.

 

Bit as is all too often the case, I’m distracted by the box car in the prototype photo, because of the end design.  It doesn’t look very much like a “standard” dreadnaught (knowing there’s not really any such thing) but more like a Hutchins end.  Do you or does any of the esteemed readers of this list know anything about that car?

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 6:16 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

 

 

One of the projects on Richard's workbench after his passing was a Wheeling & Lake Erie gondola, and I decided to finish it up. A description of that effort, along with the relevant prototype information, is contained in a post to my blog. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/05/completing-richard-hendrickson-freight.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: slow day ... let's talk about hand brakes

Jack Mullen
 

I think my brain must have started the holiday.

In  my previous post I said "The 1600 does function in the manner described in the patent"  which is true, but I intended to add that the Model 1600 predates the patent application by at least a couple of decades.

I also meant to include this link to the full patent entry: https://www.google.com/patents/US3176539

  and note that the Examiner's citation of the 1933 Miner patent 1911954 is probably the reason that Tim got a hit on this while searching for "Miner"



Jack Mullen

 


Q FM-14 hand brake gear

Eric Mumper
 

Guys,


Since the topic of hand brakes is currently relevant, I would like to ask the opinion of the group on how best to model the hand brake gear on a Q FM-14 in both HO and S scale.  These are the wonderful Chad Boas castings, however there is no provision for any type of hand brake on the B end.  I do not have a good picture of the end of these cars to share, but it looks very similar to the picture on page 21 and the drawing on page 24 of RPCyc 10.  The Tichy 3013 brake set has some useful items, but nothing captures the housing at the bottom of the end sill.  The Tichy 3003 brake wheel and staff is interesting, but not really close although maybe I could add some styrene behind it and get in the ballpark.


Thank you for any help and suggestions.


Eric Mumper

eric.mumper@...


completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

Tony Thompson
 

One of the projects on Richard's workbench after his passing was a Wheeling & Lake Erie gondola, and I decided to finish it up. A description of that effort, along with the relevant prototype information, is contained in a post to my blog. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/05/completing-richard-hendrickson-freight.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: slow day ... let's talk about hand brakes

Jack Mullen
 

I doubt this is a Miner product.  Note that the patent is assigned to Ellcon-National, who produced brake products under the "Peacock" trade name.  

Unfortunately, the housing shown in the patent doesn't match any of the Peacock hand brakes that I can find in 1960s Cycs, though it's obviously similar in general shape and outline to, for example, Peacock Model 1600. The 1600 does function in the manner described in the patent.

I'd remind y'all of Dennis's caveat about basing a model on a patent drawing, even if the patent drawings seem to be scale drawings.  Unless you can confirm with photos and/or other evidence that the patented device was actually produced, and made in the same form as depicted in the patent, you're at serious risk of creating a bogus model.

I guess it's my role in this thread to  be disagreeing, though hopefully not disagreeable.  

Jack Mullen


Moloco Brake Parts

Bill Welch
 

Moloco does offer five different AB Brake sets with Brake Wheel, Reservoir, Brake Cylinder, AB Valve, Retainer, etc, their CA-302, CA-303, CA-304, CA-305, and CA-306. The only difference is the Brake Housing or Gear. The Brake Wheel is the standard AAR Brake Wheel in all five sets, meaning the sets are designed for post-1960 freight cars which also reflects Moloco's freight car offerings.


For example: CA-0304 FREIGHT CAR APPLIANCE KIT - KLASING - Freight Car Parts


Bill Welch




Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)

Tim O'Connor
 


I have those and they are satisfactory although we have to be careful
about terminology -- For example the set includes ONE design for a Miner
hand brake but there was certainly more than one that existed. Miner was
a manufacturer -- we would not say "EMD diesel fan" to include every type
of fan installed on an EMD diesel model.

My problem with Nick's packaging is the price -- If I only want the Miner
hand brake I am not going to pay $12 (plus shipping from Canada) for one
hand brake housing. Even the old DA price of $1.25 (something like that)
seemed pretty stiff at the time -- But now I wish I'd bought 40 packages!

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------------

 Molocotrains has a variety pack that includes the Miner brake.
  HB-0301 HAND BRAKE MULTIPLE SET - Freight Car Parts
 Set of the ten most popular handbrakes used from 1930 onwards.


Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!

Tim O'Connor
 


Schuyler -- I'm not positive, but I found it by searching on "Miner".
Miner did have the distinctive release lever as shown in the drawing but
other brands also had other styles of release lever. The Detail Associates
#6402 set includes the lever and a sort of blobby housing. The best DA
parts can be found in their original "AB brake" set #6227 which came
with 5 different housings. Unfortunately as Gene Green pointed out there
are almost as many housings as brake wheels!


  Tim, can you ID the manufacturer of this particular gear?
  Schuyler

 
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US3176539-0.png


Re: Kadee "Hand Brakes"

Greg Martin
 

Hey Yuze Gize,

We did this on the SHAKE_N_TAKE project for the SP B-50-12A project.  If you recall Sam Clarke from KADEE donated the complete brake wheel assembly. I believe it was Craig Zeni who posted the how-to on the list IIRC.

Greg Martin

rom AOL Mobile Mail




On Saturday, May 23, 2015 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Craig Zeni writes:

“As for the hole, I drill a hole where the square pin is a very snug fit; the 'round excess' part of the hole is pretty much hidden by the housing itself.”

Alternatively, or in addition, one can scrape off the corners on the square peg to get it to fit in a round hole . . .

Schuyler


On May 23, 2015, at 3:55 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

> 2a. Kadee "Hand Brakes"
> Posted by: fgexbill@... lnbill
> Date: Sat May 23, 2015 5:22 a m ((PDT))
>
> Tim mentioned the disappearance of Detail Associates Hand Brake parts that I too think is regrettable but that can happen when people that own the business die.
>
>
> Although I do not see them in their parts line, a Kadee "Hand Brake" has been included in at least one, maybe two Smokey Mountain resin kits I have. I did not use the "Miner" part they included because I could not figure out how to mount it to the Tenn. Central car end. The part has a square peg and as I remember two round ones to be pressed into the mounting location on a Kadee model.
>
>
> So. . .evidently the Kadee "Hand Brakes" are available, possibly only to other manufacturers but there is that pesky mounting problem. I am hoping one of our clever Resin folks like the people at Yarmouth might come up with a mounting solution since they have demonstrated a desire to offer items to help us model more finely. May be it is something like a drilling jig (although I don't know how to drill a square hole) or maybe it is a small resin part/fixture we glue to the model into which we could place the Kadee part. Ideally this would be done mechanically.

Kadee will sell you pretty much any freight car part they make, listed or not in their parts list. Give them a call; they're wonderful people to deal with.

As for the hole, I drill a hole where the square pin is a very snug fit; the 'round excess' part of the hole is pretty much hidden by the housing itself.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)

Richard Townsend
 

Moloco also offers individual sets so you don't have to buy all ten housings, etc. Some (many? most?) might be in the future for this list. Check their site.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: smadanek@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, May 23, 2015 1:49 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)

 
Molocotrains has a variety pack that includes the Miner brake.

HB-0301 HAND BRAKE MULTIPLE SET - Freight Car Parts
  I am not familiar with this brand. Anyo ne else?

Ken Adams



Moloco, was RE: Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

So, Doug, let me understand clearly here.  You’re complaining that Moloco is offering you MORE than you need?  And you might have to recycle some plastic?

 

The usual complaint is that you can’t get what you want at all, no way, no how.

 

I suspect you have some friends who model much later era cars, so you could make them pretty happy.

 

Schuyler

 

Moloco has been around for a few years, doing cabooses and freight cars. Most of the offerings are well after the focus of this group. As to the hand brake set, half of the units are manufactured after the interest of this group. If I have to purchase the entire set to get the three that will work for me, I would be throwing away a lot of hand brakes.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Kadee "Hand Brakes"

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Craig Zeni writes:

“As for the hole, I drill a hole where the square pin is a very snug fit; the 'round excess' part of the hole is pretty much hidden by the housing itself.”

Alternatively, or in addition, one can scrape off the corners on the square peg to get it to fit in a round hole . . .

Schuyler


On May 23, 2015, at 3:55 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

> 2a. Kadee "Hand Brakes"
> Posted by: fgexbill@... lnbill
> Date: Sat May 23, 2015 5:22 am ((PDT))
>
> Tim mentioned the disappearance of Detail Associates Hand Brake parts that I too think is regrettable but that can happen when people that own the business die.
>
>
> Although I do not see them in their parts line, a Kadee "Hand Brake" has been included in at least one, maybe two Smokey Mountain resin kits I have. I did not use the "Miner" part they included because I could not figure out how to mount it to the Tenn. Central car end. The part has a square peg and as I remember two round ones to be pressed into the mounting location on a Kadee model.
>
>
> So. . .evidently the Kadee "Hand Brakes" are available, possibly only to other manufacturers but there is that pesky mounting problem. I am hoping one of our clever Resin folks like the people at Yarmouth might come up with a mounting solution since they have demonstrated a desire to offer items to help us model more finely. Maybe it is something like a drilling jig (although I don't know how to drill a square hole) or maybe it is a small resin part/fixture we glue to the model into which we could place the Kadee part. Ideally this would be done mechanically.

Kadee will sell you pretty much any freight car part they make, listed or not in their parts list. Give them a call; they're wonderful people to deal with.

As for the hole, I drill a hole where the square pin is a very snug fit; the 'round excess' part of the hole is pretty much hidden by the housing itself.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Kadee "Hand Brakes"

Craig Zeni
 

On May 23, 2015, at 3:55 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

2a. Kadee "Hand Brakes"
Posted by: fgexbill@... lnbill
Date: Sat May 23, 2015 5:22 am ((PDT))

Tim mentioned the disappearance of Detail Associates Hand Brake parts that I too think is regrettable but that can happen when people that own the business die.


Although I do not see them in their parts line, a Kadee "Hand Brake" has been included in at least one, maybe two Smokey Mountain resin kits I have. I did not use the "Miner" part they included because I could not figure out how to mount it to the Tenn. Central car end. The part has a square peg and as I remember two round ones to be pressed into the mounting location on a Kadee model.


So. . .evidently the Kadee "Hand Brakes" are available, possibly only to other manufacturers but there is that pesky mounting problem. I am hoping one of our clever Resin folks like the people at Yarmouth might come up with a mounting solution since they have demonstrated a desire to offer items to help us model more finely. Maybe it is something like a drilling jig (although I don't know how to drill a square hole) or maybe it is a small resin part/fixture we glue to the model into which we could place the Kadee part. Ideally this would be done mechanically.
Kadee will sell you pretty much any freight car part they make, listed or not in their parts list. Give them a call; they're wonderful people to deal with.

As for the hole, I drill a hole where the square pin is a very snug fit; the 'round excess' part of the hole is pretty much hidden by the housing itself.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!

Scott H. Haycock
 

While fooling around with this link, I found this page:   http://www.google.com.gt/patents/US2071269

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will find more links to other pages. Each page has a different set of links at the bottom. Many of these are within the scope of this list. I don't know how far you can take this, but I found drawings for a lot of the mechanisms made by Ajax, Universal, etc.

Scott Haycock


 

I wrote:

While there are no dimensions, there are 5 more pages to this document, including another page of drawings. To access them change the zero at the end of the patent number to a 1,2,3, etc.





Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!

Scott H. Haycock
 

While there are no dimensions, there are 5 more pages to this document, including another page of drawings. To access them change the zero at the end of the patent number to a 1,2,3, etc.

Scott Haycock


 

Well, that's a pretty good start! Do you have a link to the data, Tim - I
need the dimensions.

Rob



Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!

Jack Mullen
 

Schuyler Larrabee said 
Jack, the dimension of the wheel is easily established, since the top of the wheel IS shown, and generally speaking, the top of the wheel to the CL of the shaft is half the measure of the wheel’s diameter . . .,

No, it's not easily established. Yeah, I do understand the relationship between radius and diameter. <g>.
But notice that the wheel is drawn with a break between hub and rim. Since the break isn't being usedto reveal something otherwise hidden, or interpose a cross section, the probable purpose is that it's used to condense the drawing by omitting some of the wheen and moving the prim closer to center than it's true position. So you can't assume that the distance from hub to rim represents the true radius. 

I wish it were otherwise...

Jack


Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Bill,



I misread your message and thought you had asked what was in the box. Reading in haste, my trifocals and brain betrayed me.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 5:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: hand brakes (was Re: slow day ... let's pick on Walthers!)





I don't understand your comment Nelson.



Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

61421 - 61440 of 195354