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Re: NYC train consists
Dave Nelson
Here is the ordered list of the US Boxcar Fleet - the NYC is zeroed out here
because for this set of data it is the home road and so it doesn't count. I can see now there is a bit more variation that I first thought. It might lessen with a larger sample. Oh. that reminds me, there is a car cod I'm not sure about - DD - what is that? PRR 10.05% NYC 0.00% ATSF 5.31% MILW 4.86% BO 4.34% SP 4.21% SOU 3.96% UP 3.57% CNW 3.52% CBQ 3.27% GN 3.24% IC 3.19% NP 2.96% RI 2.76% MP 2.74% CO 2.14% SLSF 2.00% ERIE 1.83% WAB 1.76% LN 1.76% ACL 1.72% SAL 1.43% NW 1.34% SOO 1.33% NKP 1.31% GTW 1.30% DLW 1.16% RDG 1.16% TNO 1.13% PM 1.07% CN 0.99% GMO 0.94% NH 0.91% LV 0.85% CP 0.83% MKT 0.79% DRGW 0.67% TP 0.65% PLE 0.62% SSW 0.56% CGW 0.55% NCSL 0.54% CMO 0.51% MEC 0.51% CG 0.46% KCS 0.44% BM 0.42% WLE 0.40% IGN 0.39% DTI 0.38% DH 0.37% GCL 0.36% MSL 0.35% WM 0.32% BAR 0.31% WP 0.30% SPS 0.27% CNJ 0.24% ITC 0.22% EJE 0.22% GA 0.22% CRP 0.21% CEI 0.18% LA 0.17% ONT 0.17% CIL 0.16% BA 0.16% NS 0.15% IHB 0.15% BLE 0.15% FWD 0.15% LNE 0.14% AA 0.14% CV 0.14% CRR 0.13% THB 0.10% CWC 0.09% NJII 0.09% PE 0.09% P&E 0.08% RUT 0.08% CS 0.07% ACY 0.07% CIM 0.07% DMIR 0.05% DSA 0.05% GF 0.05% MI 0.05% CASO 0.04% GBW 0.04% C&G 0.04% GATX 0.04% CCCS 0.04% SA 0.04% RFP 0.04% BS 0.04% IN 0.04% NB 0.03% FEC 0.03% DM 0.03% PWV 0.03% TC 0.03% VGN 0.03% SHPX 0.02% MC 0.02% RS 0.02% MSC 0.02% NWP 0.02% AC 0.02% MWR 0.02% WFS 0.01% LSI 0.01% QC 0.01% HC 0.01% AD 0.01% ELS 0.01% CR 0.01% DTS 0.01% SN 0.01% CNL 0.01% MRS 0.01% NLC 0.01% CTN 0.01% NYSW 0.01% OW 0.01% BAP 0.00% SL 0.00% QAP 0.00% KGB 0.00% PHD 0.00% WSS 0.00% LSBC 0.00% PEP 0.00% IWC 0.00% MPA 0.00% TPW 0.00% SI 0.00% URR 0.00% AN 0.00% WCFN 0.00% CCT 0.00% MNE 0.00% FDDM 0.00% LC 0.00% WIF 0.00% BAM 0.00% KOG 0.00% SBK 0.00% PS 0.00% BRI 0.00% CHV 0.00% NN 0.00% CIC 0.00% KT 0.00% TCG 0.00% TG 0.00% TM 0.00% WIM 0.00% DNE 0.00% DWP 0.00% HPCX 0.00% HPD 0.00% SS 0.00% LOPG 0.00% MV 0.00% PMP 0.00% SDAE 0.00% BRC 0.00% DUPX 0.00% LHR 0.00% MBR 0.00% MDW 0.00% MR 0.00% WA 0.00% WTR 0.00% CWI 0.00% MSCX 0.00% NOR 0.00% SG 0.00% SLOF 0.00% Dave Nelson |
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Re: NYC train consists
Dave Nelson
Having done similar things I can say “That, Sir, is a lot of work you’ve done”.
I took the rows from the last 30 trains, cut away the home road NYC boxcars (23% of all boxcars, about what I’d expect), sorted and counted the remaining 820cars… about 75-80% of what I consider an adequate sample size). Rather than continue I’ve done enough for today. Sorting out the foreign road boxcars I created this table… the columns being Road Initial, How many times it was noted in the sample, the percentage that road initial is out of the 820 foreign road boxcars. I also stripped out the ampersand and renamed a few names to their proper initials. PRR 82 10.00% MILW 40 4.88% ATSF 38 4.63% BO 31 3.78% CNW 30 3.66% IC 30 3.66% NP 29 3.54% GN 28 3.41% CO 27 3.29% CBQ 26 3.17% RI 24 2.93% SOU 24 2.93% ERIE 21 2.56% WAB 19 2.32% ACL 18 2.20% SP 18 2.20% UP 18 2.20% LN 17 2.07% SAL 17 2.07% RDG 16 1.95% PLE 15 1.83% CP 14 1.71% NW 14 1.71% SOO 14 1.71% CN 12 1.46% PM 12 1.46% DLW 10 1.22% MP 10 1.22% SLSF 8 0.98% DRGW 7 0.85% GTW 7 0.85% NKP 7 0.85% WM 7 0.85% CG 6 0.73% CNJ 6 0.73% GMO 6 0.73% NCSL 6 0.73% NH 6 0.73% SSW 6 0.73% LV 5 0.61% TNO 5 0.61% AA 4 0.49% BAR 4 0.49% CGW 4 0.49% CTHSE 4 0.49% DTI 4 0.49% IGN 4 0.49% TP 4 0.49% ALTON 3 0.37% DH 3 0.37% EJE 3 0.37% KCS 3 0.37% MEC 3 0.37% OSL 3 0.37% StLBM 3 0.37% BM 2 0.24% CIL 2 0.24% CMO 2 0.24% ITC 2 0.24% LNE 2 0.24% MKT 2 0.24% MStL 2 0.24% NS 2 0.24% RFP 2 0.24% WLE 2 0.24% BA 1 0.12% CCCSTL 1 0.12% CCO 1 0.12% CMO 1 0.12% CMStP 1 0.12% CNOR 1 0.12% CV 1 0.12% GA 1 0.12% GBW 1 0.12% IHB 1 0.12% MC 1 0.12% MI 1 0.12% OWRN 1 0.12% PMKY 1 0.12% WP 1 0.12% I havn’t compared this to fleet totals but just looking at the list of initials I’d say it appears to conform to what I would expect to see… MILW is probably high (esp. for the fluke appearance of several CTHSE cars and re-initialing them to MILW pushes it up higher). Of particular note are CP and CN which had huge fleets of boxcars… considerably reduced in this sample – again, as expected. The obvious failure of any hypothesis is the one about nearest exchange railroads being highest… whole lot of road initials there at the top that are nowhere near western Ohio. I’ll try and add more cars in a few days, see if anything changes. Dave Nelson |
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Re: B&O Modeler
Charles Hladik
Bill,
Politics, the damnation of us
all.
A couple years ago I needed some
B&O info and mailed a request along with a $10.00 check. To this day I have
not received an answer, but the Historical Society cashed the check. So one
knows my opinion of the Historical Society, I've had no dealings with the folks
from the Modeler. Good luck to all searching for info.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
Member RRHS
NMRA Life
In a message dated 7/19/2015 4:29:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:
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Re: B&O Modeler
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
Hello Group,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It is sad to see a good source of modeling information going away. But this appears to be a manpower issue and not a lack of articles. The original post stated… Got a message yesterday from the B&ORHS webmaster that the links to this publication have been removed because the society couldn't find anyone to run the e-zine. So it would seem that the B&O Modeler is comatose, if not dead. It appears from this statement that there is a need for a replacement editor and production person. I am surprised that in a historical society with over 2000 members — or was that the round figure number given for the C&O group? — that there would be someone to step up to take over editorship. The comment that the B&O MODELER was not supported by the B&OHS dues is a bit telling. That seems to possibly indicate that there are some society internal politics involved. While I am not a B&O fanatic I have enjoyed the B&O MODELER and have used its articles as the “how to” instructions for modeling some steam era freight cars to travel my east central Kansas branch line. The B&O MODELER will be missed. Hopefully there will be someone to step up and keep it going. Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
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Re: Overloaded Cars
rwitt_2000
The value of the Load Limit specifies the actual limit to the load. The "CAPY" is only a nominal number.
The limit weight the car can carry is determined by the size of the truck journals. One example for a B&O M-27 box car CAPY 100000 LD LMT 121300 LT WT 47700 The sum of LT WT + LD LMT = Journal capacity 169000 for this car. So the actual load can 121300/2000 = ~60 tons so a nominal "50-ton" car can carry a 60-ton load. See this earlier discussion ... Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960.
I hope this helps. Regards, Bob Witt |
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Re: NYC train consists
Guy Wilber
Terry wrote:
"The originals notes marked them as boxcars – so I left them that way" Thank you, Terry. Kindest Regards, Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada |
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Re: Overloaded Cars
Terry Link
From: mailto:STMFC@...
I'm looking through Terry Link's Information on NYC train consists, and I'm noticing several cars that are overloaded. For example, in the list for train XN-2, dated May 20 1948, there is SAL box car #17220 listed as containing 60 tons of wheat. Considering this car, a SAL class B-6, is rated at 50 tons, that's a 10 ton over capacity load. My question is how common was it for the railroad's to accept cars that were overloaded? Was there a percentage of capacity that was acceptable to overload a car?
I noticed this when entering these and found a lot of hopper cars overloaded. There are also some flat cars loaded with Russian locomotives that are marked 105 tons – yet the cars are only rated for 50 or 70 tons. So not sure what to make of some of these numbers.
Terry
Link Bramalea, Ontario www.canadasouthern.com |
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Re: NYC train consists
Terry Link
From: mailto:STMFC@...
Thank you, Terry.
Nicely done! One question; did you designate auto cars with an "A" or are
they grouped in with all box cars?
The originals notes marked them as boxcars – so I
left them that way
Terry
Link Bramalea, Ontario www.canadasouthern.com |
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Overloaded Cars
Scott H. Haycock
I'm looking through Terry Link's Information on NYC train consists, and I'm noticing several cars that are overloaded. For example, in the list for train XN-2, dated May 20 1948, there is SAL box car #17220 listed as containing 60 tons of wheat. Considering this car, a SAL class B-6, is rated at 50 tons, that's a 10 ton over capacity load. My question is how common was it for the railroad's to accept cars that were overloaded? Was there a percentage of capacity that was acceptable to overload a car? Scott Haycock |
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Re: B&O Modeler
water.kresse@...
Bob,
We could use another C&O Basement Sub-division article . . . say, like how make an ex-SV&E hopper car into a C&O car starting with XYZ model. We've B&O, SV&E and C&O proto-pix to star with somewhere.
How is Colorado treating you? It is "stinkin" hot here in the Thumb of Michigan today . . . with a lot more humidity than Colorado has . . . and more grass to cut.
Al
From: "chapbob611@... [STMFC]" To: "STMFC" Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:31:59 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O Modeler Al Kresse writes:
I would guess it is the same problem as with the C&O Historical Society -- nobody is writing modeling articles to put in the Magazine nor the electronic Newsletter. Al --
Not quite nobody, at least on the B&O side. I have been submitting articles to B&O Modeler; as each has appeared I have submitted another. And as Modeler died, my latest submission (a freight car feature) is concurrently dying in the "Modeler office," and a few others for later issues are dying in my file.
Large numbers of submitted articles may be lacking, but I'm certain enough material was available to keep Modeler going, especially if the publication schedule were made flexible as it has been in recent years. It's my belief that the primary problem is the time, skill, and commitment required from a volunteer editor to make each issue happen. It's a big job, and there doesn't seem to be a ready solution, at least in this case.
Regards,
Bob Chapman |
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Re: B&O Modeler
Bob Chapman
Al Kresse writes:
I would guess it is the same problem as with the C&O Historical Society -- nobody is writing modeling articles to put in the Magazine nor the electronic Newsletter. Al --
Not quite nobody, at least on the B&O side. I have been submitting articles to B&O Modeler; as each has appeared I have submitted another. And as Modeler died, my latest submission (a freight car feature) is concurrently dying in the "Modeler office," and a few others for later issues are dying in my file.
Large numbers of submitted articles may be lacking, but I'm certain enough material was available to keep Modeler going, especially if the publication schedule were made flexible as it has been in recent years. It's my belief that the primary problem is the time, skill, and commitment required from a volunteer editor to make each issue happen. It's a big job, and there doesn't seem to be a ready solution, at least in this case.
Regards,
Bob Chapman |
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Re: NYC train consists
Clark Propst
Great info. Thanks so much for transcribing it!
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa |
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Re: NYC train consists
Guy Wilber
Terry wrote: "I also included an excel
file with all the 46264 pieces of equipment in one file that you can download
and sort and search as you like. This can be downloaded from the main
consist page." Thank you, Terry. Nicely done! One question; did you designate auto cars with an "A" or are they grouped in with all box cars? Kindest Regards, Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada
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Re: NYC train consists
Schuyler Larrabee
I am awed. Wow.
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 8:52 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] NYC train consists
I have just completed taking the notes from 21 NYC conductor books and posting the train consists to my website. These cover freight trains operating between Cleveland ( Collinwood ) and Toledo on the NYC mainline. Most trains are through freights, though there are a few MofW trains, way freights, express trains and Norwalk branch trains mixed in.
In total - there are 641 consists covering 46264 pieces of equipment from 356 companies - primarily from the 1940s including some from the war years. Included are some new car and locomotive deliveries mixed in, such as a UP challenger and NH PS1 boxcars being sent east with their first loads before seeing NH rails. There are some Canadian cars being used between US points. Horses being transported in regular boxcars. Stock cars being used for loads other than livestock. There is one case of a car being partially unloaded at one location and then carrying on to a second location. There is a case of 2 cars from 2 different railroads with the same car number next to each other. Many cases of consecutive car numbers being next to each other and not being new cars on delivery.
There are a few pieces of equipment that I have not been able to identify and maybe someone on here can help:
There are 3 cranes listed with reporting marks of B.C.Co. #3560 FCC #6 and KCC #2895. 1 piece of equipment marked as air compressor on own wheels with reporting mark PS #1423. 2 flat cars with DCX reporting marks - cars #11 and #12 from November 1947 destined for Hopedale MKT #1070 marked as a boxcar - from September 1946 NS #2099 marked as a hopper - from August 1947
You can find these consists at:
I also included an excel file with all the 46264 pieces of equipment in one file that you can download and sort and search as you like. This can be downloaded from the main consist page.
You can find a quick summary of all reporting marks found with car counts here:
Please note: I'm not going to pretend there are no mistakes in the files. The handwriting in the books was difficult to decipher at times as quite a few letters look similar ( such as i,j,g and q ) and overwriting to make corrections, etc.. There were many errors in the original books and I have corrected many of them, however, I am sure there are still many errors in the files. I have not tried to correct any destination name spelling mistakes that may have been in the original books. Though I have tried to match up the car numbers with legit car series in ORERs for the railroads and some private owners - I have not checked all private owner rosters to verify car numbers.
If you find errors and can provide corrections - please feel free to contact me OFFLIST - nyc@...
Hope this historical information will be useful to some of you.
Terry Link Bramalea, Ontario |
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Re: B&O Modeler -- Same as C&O Basement Sub-division
water.kresse@...
Folks,
I would guess it is the same problem as with the C&O Historical Society -- nobody is writing modeling articles to put in the Magazine nor the electronic Newsletter. When a society functions on the basis of getting volunteer articles it needs AUTHORS. Dues these days maybe cover the costs of digital layout, printing and ever soaring postage costs. You have a few slaves doing background research and writing material for many. For the C&O HS, I would guess two dozen or so writing for 2,400 members. You burn out the too few trying to write articles, edit and manage a website. Location ABC Modeler gets his/her material and runs with it to model it . . . and he or she is gone for some time span. It is hard to cover the field when maybe five each are interested in Hawks Nest only, Sewell only, James River only, Grand Rapids, MI, area only, etc. Modelers also pick a specific year, such 1952 or 1930 and focus in on material applicable . . . . with some modeler's fudging for maybe his/her favorite thing jjuusssttt out of the era. being there also.
My observation is that most of the C&O modeling discussions are shared on the CHESAPEAKEANDOHIO Yahoo website . . . . nobody is putting together electronic, illustrated "how-to-do-it" articles. It is also the home-site for Hawks Nest Conference targeted for the modelers and get out and explore the New River rail fans. Modelers now are also getting proto-info from the C&O History Quarterly Series of books on Tunnels, Bridges, Branch Lines, major city operations, etc.
Al Kresse
In part I suppose, the B&O RR HS would rather sell CD copies of the B&O Modeler e-magazine than allow the public to download them from their website.
But now, that web page has also been removed. Very sad indeed. My guess is that the B&O Modeler e-magazine is not likely to be restored or issued again. Volunteers needed to edit and publish it seem absent and such requires a sizeable investment of time and work as well. It could also be that quality articles on B&O modeling are becoming quite scarce. Ed Bommer
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Re: DM&N box car with bulk loading of cement
Schuyler Larrabee
Ray, I did as you suggested and got Jerry's email, not yours. So, Jerry
will get two copies of this one direct, one via the list. At least it's tangentially related to some steam era freight ar. Schuyler From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:46 AM To: STMFC@...; jdziedzic08802@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DM&N box car with bulk loading of cement To the list: have we lost the ability to reply directly to sender? Or am Ibeing the e-dunce I often am?Just hit "reply all" to make a new email, go into the address bar at the top, delete it, go back down to the original sender's email address, highlight it, copy, and paste into the address bar. (I did that to your email address, and it took maybe a second and a quarter) Hope this helps! Ray Breyer Elgin, IL |
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replying directly was RE: Re: DM&N box car with bulk loading of cement
Schuyler Larrabee
I am always a bit perplexed by this question coming up. If you get your email only via Yahoo, I don’t know what you can do, because I don’t get it that way. But when it comes to my Verizon address, into Outlook, the address of the sender (and sometimes the prior senders if in a thread) is displayed at the bottom of the email in a line like this:
Posted by: rwitt_2000 @ yahoo.com
I put the spaces either side of the @ in that line; it appears in the post formatted as a clickable link which opens an email in Outlook. So IMHO it is worth it to get your list mail through some other email program. Outlook isn’t the only option there are other email programs, however, I don’t know if there are other programs that do what Outlook does.
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:36 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: DM&N box car with bulk loading of cement
I believe I did it following the instructions provided by someone on the list.
Tom Hayden
Posted by: rwitt_2000@... |
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Re: B&O Modeler
rwitt_2000
Yes, unfortunately it is true that the B&OHS has suspended the publication of the B&O Modeler.
The Board of Directors is searching for a solution. Prior issues volumes 1 - 7 are available on CD from the B&OHS Company Store for $10 each. Company Store Regards, Bob Witt |
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Re: B&O Modeler
In part I suppose, the B&O RR HS would rather sell CD copies of the B&O Modeler e-magazine than allow the public to download them from their website.
A few months ago, the link to the B&O Modeler at the B&O RR HS website was removed. In the second quarter 2015 issue of "The Sentinel," B&O RRHS Greg Smith explained the move to discontinue the B&O Modeler as volunteers for it could not be found. The B&O Modeler was an outreach effort, not supported by B&O RR HS membership dues. However the web page containing B&O Modeler issues was not immediately removed. Until very recently, all posted issues could be read or downloaded if one used this address: http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html But now, that web page has also been removed. Very sad indeed. My guess is that the B&O Modeler e-magazine is not likely to be restored or issued again. Volunteers needed to edit and publish it seem absent and such requires a sizeable investment of time and work as well. It could also be that quality articles on B&O modeling are becoming quite scarce. Ed Bommer
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Re: DM&N box car with bulk loading of cement
Ray Breyer
To the list: have we lost the ability to reply directly to sender? Or am I being the e-dunce I often am? Just hit "reply all" to make a new email, go into the address bar at the top, delete it, go back down to the original sender's email address, highlight it, copy, and paste into the address bar. (I did that to your email address, and it took maybe a second and a quarter) Hope this helps! Ray Breyer Elgin, IL |
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