Date   

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

Benjamin Hom
 

Hugh T. Guillaume wrote:
"How about a two-dome oil tank car?  These were common during WWII."

Quantify "common".


Ben Hom


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

 

How about a two-dome oil tank car?  These were common during WWII.  Globe made a metal one many years ago but there has been nothing since.  I have been looking for a Globe two-dome car for a while but no luck yet, not even under tables at train shows.  Hugh T. Guillaume


Re: NYC 1916 gons

Michael Aufderheide
 

I see that Frank has his decal line up on his website.  See:

Resin Car Works

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

 


Re: NYC 1916 gons

rwitt_2000
 

The original may have been a Standard Steel Car design because in addition to the NYC and their subsidiaries the BR&P also had similar gondolas that became B&O class O-48. There maybe others.

The original car looked like this example from a photo in Ted Culotta's recent auction.

http://tinyurl.com/nah7a5p

There were two other builder photos in the auction of PL&E cars.

The original car seems like a good candidate for a resin kit. The Pullman Library has the BR&P drawings. I haven't looked for the others.

Bob Witt


Re: "High Speed" Air Brake System for Express Box Cars

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

The AB-1-B was a standard AB valve with a filler piece about 1” thick between the pipe bracket and the service valve portion. There was a ½” line that ran from the filler piece to the train signal line connecting with a simple “Tee.” When there was air pressure in the train signal line the filler piece allowed there to be graduated release of the automatic (train) brakes which is what passenger car valves provided.

When there was no air pressure in the filler piece because the train signal line was not energized (i.e., in freight service) the brakes handled in the same way that normal freight AB valves operated.

This also works with ABD valves but they are too new for further discussion.

I think I have a slide of such a system on a UP express box that I took in Topeka when I worked there in the 1970s that I could scan (assuming I can find it) and send along to anyone who has an interest.

Tom Birkett-Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] "High Speed" Air Brake System for Express Box Cars





Friends,

Am working along on one of Mr. Rydarowicz's beautiful MILW low-profile express box car kits, and need help with the air brake configuration. In his RP Cyc 13 research, Pat Wider notes that these cars received "Westinghouse AB-1-B High Speed Air Brakes" in 1949. I have googled this string without much success. Can anyone point me to a description of how this system differs from what we consider an ordinary AB system (if it does)?

Thanks much!

Dan Sweeney, Jr.

Alexandria, VA





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

Dave Boss
 

Hello
              I had to read several E-mails for it to register that Kadee did a tank car!  Why a ACF 11,000? Atlas already has one out.  We just had  a discussion on tank cars, with  wonderful input from Elden Gatewood. We all agree we need various designs that have not been made as of yet. It's great to see Kadee produce a new car, but why one that is already available? This reminds me of the famous PS-1! Eeverybody is offering one!  Dave



On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:11 PM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 

Exactly, either GATC, or an X-3, or even a PTC or SSC tank car.
Anything but yet another ACF tank car!

Maybe Intermountain could be convinced to do one... After Kadee came
out with an uncommon 2-bay offset hopper, Intermountain gave us the much
needed AMC 2-bay offset. Do over?

Tim o'


   GATC… please
   Bruce Smith


 It seems like we still need models of smaller capacity tank cars e.g. 6,000-gal
 to 8,000-gal. at this quality of tooling.
 Bob Witt



Re: NYC 1916 gons

Eric Hansmann
 

Dave,

 

I feel this is one car that is really missing from the model mix. The P&LE also had 1000 42-foot cars delivered as Lot 253-G in 1910 and then 2000 of a 46-foot version delivered in 1912-1913. These NYC Lines cars were among the earliest steel underframe mill gondolas with a length greater than 40-feet.

 

The PRR GR class gons were similar, as you noted. The GR design had an interior length of 37-feet, 8.25-inches. Production began in 1902 and 16,151 were produced before 1907.

 

The GRa design was slightly longer, with an interior length of 40-foot, 8-inches. 14,126 were produced from 1907-1916.

 

Both car designs featured drop ends.

 

Car designers of the day must have seen the utility of the GR/GRa design and stretched it to meet the growing demands of the 1910-1915 era. Bashing two GR or GRa models to achieve the longer NYC car is an interesting idea. I would be concerned with replicating the taper of the fish belly side sill as it seems longer on the NYC cars. A better bet may be to use the Chad Boas kit for the NKP version. It’s two feet longer then the NYC car but may offer a better starting point for an approximation. Frank Hodina recently featured his build of the NKP gondola on his blog.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/fun-builds-1/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 



 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:39 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] NYC 1916 gons

 




In 1916 the NYC ordered several thousand 46’ 2’ IL composite gondolas of which some, in later days, had the wood sides replaced with steel (an example: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-346078.jpg).   The original cars bear superficial similarity to the PRR’s own Gr classes of cars, which were a few feet shorter.

 

Aside from the obvious visible similarities we can make out from photos, how similar were the cars in their intrinsic design?  Were the NYC a stretched version of the Gr (or the Gr a cut off copy of the NTC car)?  I can make out differences in the longer side supports, around the end sill, and the car corner....

 

I suppose another way to put it is to ask: can one kitbash two models of a Gr into one NYC car w/o being embarrassed if the result is viewed by members of this list?

 

Dave Nelson




"High Speed" Air Brake System for Express Box Cars

Dan Sweeney Jr
 

Friends,

Am working along on one of Mr. Rydarowicz's beautiful MILW low-profile express box car kits, and need help with the air brake configuration.  In his RP Cyc 13 research, Pat Wider notes that these cars received "Westinghouse AB-1-B High Speed Air Brakes" in 1949.  I have googled this string without much success.  Can anyone point me to a description of how this system differs from what we consider an ordinary AB system (if it does)?

Thanks much!

Dan Sweeney, Jr.

Alexandria, VA


NYC 1916 gons

Dave Nelson
 

In 1916 the NYC ordered several thousand 46’ 2’ IL composite gondolas of which some, in later days, had the wood sides replaced with steel (an example: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-346078.jpg).   The original cars bear superficial similarity to the PRR’s own Gr classes of cars, which were a few feet shorter.

 

Aside from the obvious visible similarities we can make out from photos, how similar were the cars in their intrinsic design?  Were the NYC a stretched version of the Gr (or the Gr a cut off copy of the NTC car)?  I can make out differences in the longer side supports, around the end sill, and the car corner....

 

I suppose another way to put it is to ask: can one kitbash two models of a Gr into one NYC car w/o being embarrassed if the result is viewed by members of this list?

 

Dave Nelson


Re: Dunnage Toolbox?

mikefrommontanan
 

Alternately, to repair burst crates/broken slats. Lining would seem to indicate that the car was rough or had a contaminating (odor?) load previously (oranges? prunes?). Shipper is not skimping on the loading anyway.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/55aeaa6fb1e8e2a6e533cst03duc


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

al_brown03
 

I model a rural area in '49, so I think I may need a couple. :-)

 

AL B.


Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dennis,

Aye, how about a tank car or two that hasn't been done? A 6K would be nice. Or maybe a 10K high-walkway ACF Type 11, and the low walkway variant (same tank and frame)?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/21/15 1:01 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

 


Unfortunately us RPM'ers seem to have painted ourselves into a corner when
it comes to tank cars. Most tank car designs were highly specialized and cars
were produced in very small quantities. I could REALLY use some mid to late
1950's all welded tank cars anywhere from 8k to 19k in size but what are the
chances that anyone will produce one? With the exception of Atlas and Accurail,
the other manufacturers have been scared off from producing prototypical models
and then applying NON-prototypical paint schemes to those models to increase
sales and justify the tooling costs.

And even though I love this level of detail, I realize that we'll never see a
half dozen different cars at this level in what's left of our lifetimes.

I guess I'm just gonna have to dress up some old AHM tank cars... :-) Dennis
how about it, a nice Accurail tank car?

Tim O'Connor

>It seems like we still need models of smaller capacity tank cars e.g. 6,000-gal
>to 8,000-gal. at this quality of tooling.
>Bob Witt



Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

Richard Townsend
 

I have no inside information, but it seems like it makes sense to keep an eye on Tangent. They have made two General American tank cars already and I would not be surprised to see them come out with others, such as the much desired 6,000 gallon, single compartment car (just a new tank on the existing frame), and maybe even a six compartment wine car. Meanwhile you can buy parts and undec kits (at least for the acid car) from them and kitbash to your heart's content.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2015 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

 

Exactly, either GATC, or an X-3, or even a PTC or SSC tank car.
Anything but yet another ACF tank car!

Maybe Intermountain could be convinced to do one... After Kadee came
out with an uncommon 2-bay offset hopper, Intermountain gave us the much
needed AMC 2-bay offset. Do over?

Tim o'


   GATC… please
   Bruce Smith


 It seems like we still need models of smaller capacity tank cars e.g. 6,000-gal
 to 8,000-gal. at this quality of tooling.
 Bob Witt


Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 


Exactly, either GATC, or an X-3, or even a PTC or SSC tank car.
Anything but yet another ACF tank car!

Maybe Intermountain could be convinced to do one... After Kadee came
out with an uncommon 2-bay offset hopper, Intermountain gave us the much
needed AMC 2-bay offset. Do over?

Tim o'


   GATC� please
   Bruce Smith


 It seems like we still need models of smaller capacity tank cars e.g. 6,000-gal
 to 8,000-gal. at this quality of tooling.
 Bob Witt


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Al;

I think that one is a 1948 prototype in original paint, given the white valve casing and other features.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car



When was the Kadee car's prototype built?



Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car

Bruce Smith
 

GATC… please

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 21, 2015, at 11:08 AM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



It seems like we still need models of smaller capacity tank cars e.g. 6,000-gal to 8,000-gal. at this quality of tooling.

Bob Witt 



Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Group;

Yes, there is a stack of cars from which they can choose, for this relatively common late forties-mid-fifties six-sheet(course) jacketed 11k 105. This is a car really good for rural LPG/propane use, as well as urban setting compressed gas. I think this is a considerable improvement over the Atlas car, but you may not agree.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Re: Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car







---In STMFC@..., <dhc628@...> wrote :


Thought this would have caught someones attention by now.


Kadee - RTR ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car - In Stock <http://www.kadee.com/ca/tank/tank.htm>



image <http://www.kadee.com/ca/tank/tank.htm>





Kadee - RTR ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car - In St... <http://www.kadee.com/ca/tank/tank.htm>
NOW SHIPPING (As of July 20, 2015) ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car ACF Tank Cars are equipped with the #158 "Scale" coupler. Step Platform (1947-1949) ...
View on www.kadee.com <http://www.kadee.com/ca/tank/tank.htm>
Preview by Yahoo

Jason Cook
New Haven, IN

There is discussion about this car on Atlas Rescue Forum:
http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3868/kadee-announces-gallon-insulated-tank
Since ACF made so many tank cars, it would be a good guess Kadee will come out w/ other reporting marks,
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: USRA Tank Cars!!!

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

I think it's been proven over time that both the underframe and the
4-course USRA tank car body were applied to real prototype tank cars.

Just not both at the same time on the same car.

Tim O'


Re: Dunnage Toolbox?

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <patwadesb@...> wrote :

From the point on the hammers in the hanging tool box perhaps they are used to break up any large chunks of ice.
============
One wouldn't need an entire tool box for an ice ax. The tool you see is likely a hatchet, useful for cutting the wood lath they are using to secure the paper. Most coopering in freightcars was hatchet work, anyway.

The paper may be an attempt to keep odors out of the load; perhaps the car was last loaded with something fragrant like cantaloupe.

Dennis Storzek


USRA Tank Cars!!!

brianleppert@att.net
 

Here is a photo that I believe proves there REALLY WERE tank cars built to USRA drawings

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gulf-Refining-GRCX-3200-tank-car-8x10-builders-photo-/121697548092?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c55bd373c&nma=true&si=N2jzoXzBh%252FyaMdr3QO2qcUxM1ds%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


This is a Standard Steel Car Company builder's photo for a 8000 gallon capacity tank car for Gulf Refining Co.


Generally this tank car has center sills, end sills, stubby side sills and four tank bands.


Uniquely USRA details include the split center anchor.  This is where the tank is riveted to the center sills.  These are centered around the bottom outlet and have the same number of rivets as the drawings.  Also, the tank saddles follow USRA drawings including how the bands terminate.


The end and side sills are channels with the flanges facing inward.  The poling pocket casting (?) wraps around the end and is riveted to the side sill.  The sill steps are the same design, attached to the bottom of the side sill and set back from the corner the same distance.  The six rivets attaching the side sill to the body bolster are the same.  The upside-own drop grab irons also follow the drawings.


The body bolsters and tank supports seem to follow the USRA drawings.  The car even sits on USRA arch bar trucks.


There are two more views of GRCX 3200 in Ted Culotta's spiral bound tank car book on page 98.  These two photos also recently sold on Ebay and can be found by searching "Chattanooga WW2 yard photo".  These overhead shots show the single dome platform, just like the drawings.


Another photo in Ted's book, page 98, and recently sold on ebay, is a good side view of GRCX # 3293, another car in the same series.


The tank dome isn't USRA, nor are the dome cover or the safety valve locations.


USRA tank car drawings were published in the 1919 Car Builders' Dictionary and reprinted in Train Shed Cyclopedia No.9.


So there really was a real prototype for the Gould/Tichy tank car underframe.  I welcome any comments.


Brian Leppert

Carson City, NV