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Re: Sheet lead sources...step back in time.

boomer44@...
 

I  got my sheet lead at Rochester Lead Works. They have been around since 1883. They are in a complex of "OLD" buildings next to the now CSX yard downtown. When I was there five years ago it looked like they were still doing things the old way. Open vats of molten lead the workers stirred with wooden paddles. The only protection was goggles, thick gloves and leather bib aprons. They worked in t-shirts, jean's and heavy duty work boots. They had molds heated prior to pouring. Dirt floor and little light or ventilation. It was HOT in there.

Gordon Spalty
Re: D&RGW drop bottom gons - Red Caboose

Benjamin Hom
 

Ted Waterhouse asked:
"Got a message re. the D&RGW 'Flying Rio Grande' scheme on drop-bottom gons and accidentally deleted it before I could answer. I Wanted to say thanks for the detailed info. Actually, it was the Red Caboose model in that paint scheme I was wondering about. I'm hoping to complete the DA kits as SP cars (if only I can find decals) as I'm aiming to model SP's Jawbone branch in 1953. I've seen photos including D&RGW drop-bottoms on that line however and Andy Carlson had offered a couple of the Red Caboose RTR cars in that scheme. Do you know anything about the accuracy of these models vis-a-vis D&RGW classes?"

Sounds like you deleted the post with the answer to your question.  From post #134894 by Garth Groff:
"Yes, the "Flying Rio Grande" dates from the late 1939 on freight cars. All the D&RGW steel GS gondolas wore this scheme. The Details Associates car is probably closest to 46000-46499, delivered in 1947-48, with improved Dreadnaught ends and Duryea underframes. 46500-46999 and 47000-47499 were came with conventional underframes but had proprietary PSC ends. So the DA car doesn't quite match any of the Rio Grande cars. The 72000-series had a 46' inside length, and so the DA car can't represent these (nor similar WP cars). Information from Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT."


Ben Hom
Re: SP GS gondola decals

Benjamin Hom
 

Ted Waterhouse asked:
"Hmmm. That link for the decals "wanted" post didn't seem to work. Anybody have a hint on that?"

Try this link:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Railway_Decal_Express_Agency/info


Ben Hom

 
Re: SP GS gondola decals

Ted Waterhouse
 

Hmmm. That link for the decals "wanted" post didn't seem to work. Anybody have a hint on that? tw
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 6/16/15, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP GS gondola decals
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015, 5:38 PM


 









Ted Waterhouse wrote:

"So we've got the
weight issue figured out one way or another but a
preliminary search brings up no decals for early'50s SP
GS gondolas. Nothing from Microscale and Champ, of course,
out of production. Unless I get lucky with a swap meet,
etc., it looks like I'm stuck and will have to get along
with digging up more Red Caboose models on E-Bay,
etc."

Sheesh, Ted, you've given your
search all of six hours.  Patience is a virtue on the
secondary market - keep an eye on eBay and train shows and
the Champ set will eventually show up.  Additionally, you
might want to try asking the members of the group if they
have one to spare and someone will certainly be happy to
help, or make a "wanted" post at 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Railway_Decal_Express_Agency/
.
Seriously, unless
you're up against a hard deadline and need these cars
yesterday, it won't kill you to be patient.  Just keep
looking.

Ben Hom









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Re: SP GS gondola decals

Ted Waterhouse
 

Yeah, you're probably right Ben. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the suggestion about the "wanted' post. I'll give that a try. tw
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 6/16/15, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP GS gondola decals
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015, 5:38 PM


 









Ted Waterhouse wrote:

"So we've got the
weight issue figured out one way or another but a
preliminary search brings up no decals for early'50s SP
GS gondolas. Nothing from Microscale and Champ, of course,
out of production. Unless I get lucky with a swap meet,
etc., it looks like I'm stuck and will have to get along
with digging up more Red Caboose models on E-Bay,
etc."

Sheesh, Ted, you've given your
search all of six hours.  Patience is a virtue on the
secondary market - keep an eye on eBay and train shows and
the Champ set will eventually show up.  Additionally, you
might want to try asking the members of the group if they
have one to spare and someone will certainly be happy to
help, or make a "wanted" post at 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Railway_Decal_Express_Agency/
.
Seriously, unless
you're up against a hard deadline and need these cars
yesterday, it won't kill you to be patient.  Just keep
looking.

Ben Hom









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Re: SP GS gondola decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

Neither of the SP 87-1310 or 87-1314 sets can be used for capacity data for STMFC-era GS gondolas
but some of the dimensional data from 87-1314 may work -- I have not checked it. You can use the numbers
and reporting marks but the black & white heralds are all 24" in the set which as far as I know is completely
wrong for those cars.

A while ago Arved Grass reported he was working on accurate decal sets for the SP GS gondolas but I
don't know whether he gave up or is still working at it -- He posts frequently on Facebook but not so much
on Yahoo these days.

Tim O'Connor

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 A question, just out of curiosity, for someone more knowledgeable about SP lettering, could someone piece together reporting marks and numbers from, say a Microscale box car set such as 87-911 (or some other set if appropriately sized lettering is available), plus dimensional data from sets such as 87-1310 or 1314 to accurately letter a DA gondola? Regrettably I do not have Tony's gondola book or any other source of info on gondola lettering.
 Richard Townsend

Re: 70-ton ore cars in Utah

Tim O'Connor
 

Don the page says the photo date is 1963. This mine was active throughout
the postwar period in the 1960's at least so either date seems possible.

Tim O'


These photos are taken at UP's Iron Mountain yard, serving the iron mine near Cedar City, Utah,
sometime between 1950 and 1954.
Don Strack
Re: 70-ton ore cars in Utah

Tim O'Connor
 


Don, cool! I'd seen photos of GS gondolas loaded with iron ore from
his location but this is the first time I've seen 70 ton ore jennies.

Tim O'


  Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State Historical Society - Classified Photographs
Re: SP GS gondola decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Did Norm get the old Rick Leach decals? Rick's decal work was immaculate
and I think he had done decals for the San Juan O scale GS gondola.

Tim O'

Ted,
Norm Buckhart at Protocraft has them in O scale, you may be able to convince him to do them in HO, as he is expanding his HO decal line. See protocraft.com
John F. Pautz
Re: Sheet lead sources

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Andy, before you contribute that much to greenhouse gas emissions, why not call a few hardware and building supply stores other than Home Depot, like a few Tru-Value stores. Try National Lumber, there is one here in Newton but they have other outlets, too.



Home Depot is not really interested in the individual consumer anymore; their only advantage in my book is that they are open late.



Let your fingers do the walking . . .



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Sheet lead sources





I used to get my lead at Home Depot. They would cut off as much as I requested from the roll and charge me by the pound.

No more! I checked three local Home Depots and they all have a new policy. You must buy the whole roll ($120 +/-) and you must show a valid, state-issued roofers license. Now this is Massachusetts – slightly to the left of California. I may try heading north where folks live free or die and see if they are willing to sell to model railroaders.

Regards,

Andy Miller

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sheet lead sources

McMaster-Carr the "perfect and easy source"???? Ted, do you not have a Lowe's or Home Depot

or building supply store near you? Why pay a high price and shipping as well if you don't have to?

Cordially, Don Valentine







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Sheet lead sources

Andy Miller
 

I used to get my lead at Home Depot. They would cut off as much as I requested from the roll and charge me by the pound.



No more! I checked three local Home Depots and they all have a new policy. You must buy the whole roll ($120 +/-) and you must show a valid, state-issued roofers license. Now this is Massachusetts – slightly to the left of California. I may try heading north where folks live free or die and see if they are willing to sell to model railroaders.



Regards,



Andy Miller



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sheet lead sources





McMaster-Carr the "perfect and easy source"???? Ted, do you not have a Lowe's or Home Depot

or building supply store near you? Why pay a high price and shipping as well if you don't have to?



Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: SP GS gondola decals

Richard Townsend
 

A question, just out of curiosity, for someone more knowledgeable about SP lettering, could someone piece together reporting marks and numbers from, say a Microscale box car set such as 87-911 (or some other set if appropriately sized lettering is available), plus dimensional data from sets such as 87-1310 or 1314 to accurately letter a DA gondola? Regrettably I do not have Tony's gondola book or any other source of info on gondola lettering.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Jun 16, 2015 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP GS gondola decals

 
Ted Waterhouse wrote:


"So we've got the weight issue figured out one way or another but a preliminary search brings up no decals for early'50s SP GS gondolas. Nothing from Microscale and Champ, of course, out of production. Unless I get lucky with a swap meet, etc., it looks like I'm stuck and will have to get along with digging up more Red Caboose models on E-Bay, etc."

Sheesh, Ted, you've given your search all of six hours.  Patience is a virtue on the secondary market - keep an eye on eBay and train shows and the Champ set will eventually show up.  Additionally, you might want to try asking the members of the group if they have one to spare and someone will certainly be happy to help, or make a "wanted" post at 

Seriously, unless you're up against a hard deadline and need these cars yesterday, it won't kill you to be patient.  Just keep looking.


Ben Hom

Re: 70-ton ore cars in Utah

Dave Nelson
 

These cars carry Wyoming Iron Ore and were delivered to Columbia Steel in Ironton UT by the Union Pacific. IIRC Ironton is SE of Provo.



Once the Geneva Works was built NW of Provo Columbia Steel limited itself to casting pigs and sending molten Iron to Geneva in hot bottle cars. No doubt a very special movement.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 6:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 70-ton ore cars in Utah








In this photo...



Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State Historical Society - Classified Photographs <http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/USHS_Class/id/8225/rec/4>



<http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/USHS_Class/id/8225/rec/4> Image removed by sender. image

<http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/USHS_Class/id/8225/rec/4> Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State...

Title Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 File name 39222001533335.tif Photo Number




<http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/USHS_Class/id/8225/rec/4> View on content.lib.utah...

Preview by Yahoo






...are the cars on the middle two tracks 24-foot ore "jennies"? They look to be shorter than the cars on the two adjacent tracks. And that open space at one end seems not to match a standard two-bay hopper.



If you zoom in, you can see a string of ore cars in the distance, beyond the loading building. Other cars in the photo, and others in the same photo series, are either two-bay hoppers, or GS gons.



These photos are taken at UP's Iron Mountain yard, serving the iron mine near Cedar City, Utah, sometime between 1950 and 1954.



Don Strack










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: AC&F Type 21 questions

Dave Nelson
 

Thanks for the tip!  I found an example of the attached Triple Valve in the 1928 CBC.

 

Shame so few of the Westinghouse drawings in CBD / CBC’s were dimensioned… it’s frustrating to look at all of the equipment and have no idea how to craft it.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F Type 21 questions

 

On Jun 16, 2015, at 2:41 PM, 'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Another topic of some mystery is the brake equipment.   For the drawings I have there is no indication of a triple value which leads me to think the air reservoir attached to the K Brake cylinder was feed directly off the train brake via simple tee joint  There is a diagram in the 1916 CBD that shows this particular design.  But wasn’t that banned a decade or so earlier (think T. Roosevelt Administration). Ques! tions:

    Is it plausible a tank car built in the early 1920’s would not have a triple value and auxiliary air reservoir?

 

Um Dave, 

 

That’s a K brake and of course, ALL tank cars for US standard gauge use built in the 1920s would have a K brake.  The so-called “triple valve” (really more appropriately called an AB valve) was a component of the AB brake system.  With K brakes (KC) the valve was attached to the end of the reservoir which in turn was attached to the cylinder.  The KD variant (commonly used by the PRR) had the cylinder and reservoir/valve divided into 2 parts.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
Re: AC&F Type 21 questions

Dave Nelson
 

Ok, I’ll plan on doing the KD brake as well.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 1:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F Type 21 questions


I completely agree with Bruce, but would add this.  Within the past year, I posted an observation (which I can not now quickly conjure up from the STMFC archives; grrr) that, for several years in the early 1920s, the split KD system seemed to be the predominant system on the T21s as built.  There are a number of photos in Ed Kaminski's book (and elsewhere) that support this generalization, The KDs are pretty easy to spot, as the reservoir is located on the right-hand side (as you look at the B end), and is plumbed over to the cylinder on the left.  On T21s with KCs, there is no visible brake hardware on the RH side.

 

I don't care much about AB brakes (after my era), but would also note that the arrangement of the AB equipment later applied to T21s would SEEM to reflect the original equipment (KC vs KD), especially with respect to where the AB cylinder was mounted.  Or that's my best guess.

 

Dave Parker

Riverside, CA

 

 

 



 
Re: 70-ton ore cars in Utah

Charles Peck
 

It appears that the slope sheets have been altered on some cars.  Different materials have differing
characteristic slopes at which they will slide.  This is called the angle of repose.  In order to be
self unloading, some materials need a steeper slope sheet.  If the cars had been built for coal
and then designated for different use, then a conversion may have been needed. 
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 9:55 PM, donstrack@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

In this photo...


Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State Historical Society - Classified Photographs
Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State...
Title Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 File name 39222001533335.tif Photo Number
Preview by Yahoo


...are the cars on the middle two tracks 24-foot ore "jennies"? They look to be shorter than the cars on the two adjacent tracks. And that open space at one end seems not to match a standard two-bay hopper.


If you zoom in, you can see a string of ore cars in the distance, beyond the loading building. Other cars in the photo, and others in the same photo series, are either two-bay hoppers, or GS gons.


These photos are taken at UP's Iron Mountain yard, serving the iron mine near Cedar City, Utah, sometime between 1950 and 1954.


Don Strack
Re: 70-ton ore cars in Utah

Bruce Smith
 

Don,

Sure look like ore jennies - there are also some on the right hand track.  Most of the remaining cars are gons, as you note.  I also like the range of grades of coal that are clearly visible.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 8:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 70-ton ore cars in Utah



In this photo...


Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State Historical Society - Classified Photographs


...are the cars on the middle two tracks 24-foot ore "jennies"? They look to be shorter than the cars on the two adjacent tracks. And that open space at one end seems not to match a standard two-bay hopper.


If you zoom in, you can see a string of ore cars in the distance, beyond the loading building. Other cars in the photo, and others in the same photo series, are either two-bay hoppers, or GS gons.


These photos are taken at UP's Iron Mountain yard, serving the iron mine near Cedar City, Utah, sometime between 1950 and 1954.


Don Strack
70-ton ore cars in Utah

Don Strack
 

In this photo...


Columbia Steel Co.-Iron Mountain P.17 :: Utah State Historical Society - Classified Photographs


...are the cars on the middle two tracks 24-foot ore "jennies"? They look to be shorter than the cars on the two adjacent tracks. And that open space at one end seems not to match a standard two-bay hopper.


If you zoom in, you can see a string of ore cars in the distance, beyond the loading building. Other cars in the photo, and others in the same photo series, are either two-bay hoppers, or GS gons.


These photos are taken at UP's Iron Mountain yard, serving the iron mine near Cedar City, Utah, sometime between 1950 and 1954.


Don Strack
Re: Paint Booth Article In MODEL RAILROADER

boomer44@...
 

hey Bruce,

  I'm a kind- of- seat - in -the - pants guy. I just didn't want to re-invent the wheel when someone knows better. I'll use a kitchen exhaust and have my wife notify the group if I was in error...

Anyway I have airbrushed a couple of locos using a corrugated box as my booth. They turned out OK. It took a couple of days to cure the coughing  though. I do have to say Alco's in maroon look really good. AND... this was years ago... still kickin'.

Gordon Spalty
Re: SP GS gondola decals

John Pautz
 

Ted,
Norm Buckhart at Protocraft has them in O scale, you may be able to convince him to do them in HO, as he is expanding his HO decal line. See protocraft.com
John F. Pautz
American Switch & Signal
P:48 track components
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