Date   

Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making.

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy would that be a crimp seam, or a lap seam, that you are trying to hide? :-)

Tim O'

I have a Swiss diamond faced file I purchased decades ago from PBL, the Sn3 guys in Ukiah, CA (in the traditional wine country). It is my go-to file for almost every model project. It has a smooth surface for something that has great removing ability. I can remove a riveted panel seam from a box car side and only need to follow up with 400 grit sand paper to get a paint-ready surface. Never has worn out and, oddly, requires very little cleaning. It is practically self-clearing. Tis file, along with my dial caliper, remains as my favorite tools.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Red Swift reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

I have three color slides of SRLX reefers from 1957 (give or take) -- two
steel cars and a wood car -- and all three have bright red ends (same color
as the car sides).

And I see what you mean about the lever! I have NO IDEA what the heck that is.
Maybe some device that allowed a man standing on top of the car to pull the
pin on the coupler??

Tim O'Connor

Good call on the BCR ends! Also note that this car has the heavy underframe bolsters which are open at the ends, while most of the other wooden cars have a metal side sill. This car is also considerably shorter than its yellow companion. I'm still trying to decide if this car lacks the white roof fascia, or it if the facia is actually white and just badly weathered. Oh, no! Have I just stirred up another controversy?

The steel cars such as 15307 seem to have some sort of lever running from the right side of the draft gear up to the roof level. It appears on the A end of this car, and on the B end of the steel car immediately behind car 5423. Does anyone know what this device was for?

Several other details come to mind in the Berkstresser photos. None of the wooden cars seem to have hatch platforms. Remember the old Varney car with the black plastic roof and hatch platforms from the early 1950s? [Remember Varney? If you can, then I'm surprised you can remember anything! I know how hard it's getting.] There is another yellow car hiding in the row behind the more prominent one. Look just above and to the right of the building roof. Also note the color detail of the steel cars' hatches, plugs and covers. Anyone who builds one of the steel cars with open hatches should note which parts are white.

Finally, image how this yard smells. To be truly accurate, shouldn't we be adding smells to our models? :~)

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff



Ok now that we have settled the issue that we are not arguing, I have a question about the photo of Swift reefers at Sioux City. Just beyond the single yellow car Mike notes, appears a red car with what appears to be a BCR end. And there is a second red wood car closer to camera that also appears to have a BCR end. Of course all the other red cars appear to have ends the same color as the sides. But those two cars make we wonder, what color did Swift paint the ends on their red cars. Was it bright red or BCR? Is the end BCR or is just �weathering�?
Doug Harding


Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

O Fenton Wells
 

Anyone in the group have a good suggestion for a Floquil lacquer as an alternate to the Tru Color Lt. Oxide   Doesn't have to be exact.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Was Great Northern Omaha Orange _ Now Tru Color matches

Tim O'Connor
 

Pierre this is true of AP as well -- it's the nature of the beast, which is
a high proportion of carrier to pigment. AP/TC love polystyrene, but don't love
brass or polyurethane nearly as much. For sure Scalecoat is the most economical
paint - one 2 oz bottle goes a long way! Floquil also covers well. They are
both very opaque.

Use thin coats of AP/TC -- let each layer evaporate for a minute or three before
adding another layer.

My other source of unhappiness with Tru-Color is coverage.
Pierre Oliver


Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Tim O'Connor
 


Good point Jack -- the interaction of pigments does depend on the brand.
I have found that the AP/TC/Star paints (basically all the same chemistry)
can be blended more predictably (think elementary school color wheel) than
Floquil... On the other hand, some of that Floquil "pink" can come in handy
at times! :-)

Tim O'


Tim wrote:

[Snip] Fortunately simple "darkness" can be overcome by
addition of some pure white. Adding a bright oxide or a maroon can shift it towards or
away from russet, respectively.

That might work with Tru-Color paints (which I haven't tried yet...I still have a huge stash of Floquil) but white will turn Floquil Box Car Red pink. I use yellow instead to fade or lighten BC Red, something I learned several decades ago from one of many mentors I've had.

Jack Burgess


Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Tim O'Connor
 

Ross, yes, I agree about the reds -- George Bishop told me that Warbonnet Red
and SP Daylight Red and Rock Island "Golden State" red were all the exact same
color -- Socony Red (Standard Oil Co of NY Red). So if you have any SO gas stations
on your layout, it's the same color!

Tim O'Connor

Back in the late '90's I worked with DuPont on colors for a project at my company.. There was a DuPont guy who had a list of the various DuPont lines and the corresponding color mixes to get each product line to match. Yeah, I need to go digging and find the paper and scan it for everyone to see. Point being, there are many colors that the railroads used which were the same. Also, the paint was many times was mixed by a local paint dealer so if may not exactly match the original color from the formula. I was amazed to see the mix code for RI, ATSF, and SP red fron the '40's was the same.
Let the nay sayers and fights begin.

Ross Dando


Re: Soo Line Freight Equipment and Cabooses

Clark Propst
 

A friend picked up the book at the last minute at Trainfest yesterday. Showed it to us at dinner, otherwise I’m sure we’d have each bought one...Best freight car book I’ve seen. They were able to offer the entire roster by including b/w photos, major drawback of the color guides.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car

O Fenton Wells
 

I ordered one this week and a funny thing, my pay pal payment was held up
for about 8 hours. I had never seen that before so I called them, It is a
new Fed Reg (go figure) that anything shipped in from China had to be
reviewed before the payment is allowed.

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:59 PM, clzeni clzeni@... [STMFC] <
STMFC@...> wrote:



I'm a little surprised at the lack of response to this
announcement...I got a look at the car today at Trainfest in Milwaukee
and, as one expects from Tangent, the car's gorgeous. I'm not a tank
car guy so I can't comment on accuracy but again, with Tangent, I'd
expect it to be very good indeed.

I didn't buy any - flying home tomorrow - but will be ordering some this
week.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
Posted by: tangentscalemodels@... tangentscalemodels
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

Tangent Scale Models is proud to introduce our next ALL-NEW freight
car replica, the General American 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car with
Welded Underframe. Following World War II, specialized liquid
shippers requested new special duty tank cars, and General American
Transportation Corporation met their demands by producing
specific-service cars such as this 8,000 gallon acid service tank car.
At the same time, General American switched from a riveted underframe
and riveted tank design to a welded underframe and tank. While
General American’s factory in Sharon PA manufactured at least three
different post-war versions of 8,000 gallon acid all-welded tank cars,
these specific prototypes were produced between 1949 and 1960. Like
all Tangent Scale Models offerings, these tank cars had long service
lives, lasting well into the 1980s in revenue service. Acid service
tank cars were commonly-seen nationwide, providing transportation for
strong chemical compounds, such as hydrochloric (muriatic),
hydrofluoric, phosphoric, and sulfuric acids. Acid tank cars were
rubber-lined, featured one percent expansion domes on the top, and did
not have bottom tank outlets.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 12:28 PM, <STMFC@...> wrote:
There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Red Swift reefers
From: Garth Groff

2a. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: David bott
2b. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: rockroll50401
2c. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: David Bott

3a. Re: CN SS box car roof
From: soolinehistory

4a. Re: Ma&Pa decals wtb
From: mwbpequod

5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
From: tangentscalemodels

6a. Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making
From: Anspach Denny
6b. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Andy Carlson
6c. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Jack Burgess
6d. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: jon miller
6e. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Jack Burgess
6f. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: O Fenton Wells

7. New photo collection going online at the Barriger Library
From: nfryumbc

8. Conversion kits for SP 40' B-50-27 box cars
From: Andy Carlson


Messages
__________________________________________________________
1.1. Re: Red Swift reefers
Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:38 am ((PST))

Doug,

Good call on the BCR ends! Also note that this car has the heavy
underframe bolsters which are open at the ends, while most of the other
wooden cars have a metal side sill. This car is also considerably
shorter than its yellow companion. I'm still trying to decide if this
car lacks the white roof fascia, or it if the facia is actually white
and just badly weathered. Oh, no! Have I just stirred up another
controversy?

The steel cars such as 15307 seem to have some sort of lever running
from the right side of the draft gear up to the roof level. It appears
on the A end of this car, and on the B end of the steel car immediately
behind car 5423. Does anyone know what this device was for?

Several other details come to mind in the Berkstresser photos. None of
the wooden cars seem to have hatch platforms. Remember the old Varney
car with the black plastic roof and hatch platforms from the early
1950s? [Remember Varney? If you can, then I'm surprised you can remember
anything! I know how hard it's getting.] There is another yellow car
hiding in the row behind the more prominent one. Look just above and to
the right of the building roof. Also note the color detail of the steel
cars' hatches, plugs and covers. Anyone who builds one of the steel cars
with open hatches should note which parts are white.

Finally, image how this yard smells. To be truly accurate, shouldn't we
be adding smells to our models? :~)

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/6/14 11:26 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@...
[STMFC] wrote:

Ok now that we have settled the issue that we are not arguing, I have
a question about the photo of Swift reefers at Sioux City. Just beyond
the single yellow car Mike notes, appears a red car with what appears
to be a BCR end. And there is a second red wood car closer to camera
that also appears to have a BCR end. Of course all the other red cars
appear to have ends the same color as the sides. But those two cars
make we wonder, what color did Swift paint the ends on their red cars.
Was it bright red or BCR? Is the end BCR or is just "weathering"?

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org <http://www.iowacentralrr.org>





Messages in this topic (66)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: "David bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:46 am ((PST))

Thank you, Ben. As always you answer with patience and clarity,
unsurpassed. I marvel.

I now see my error in not thinking to check the files for a database.
Perhaps at least, my error will allow others to learn or recall the files
exist. So much to learn, so little time.

I think these kits will remain as built and hopefully weathered nicely
enough for someone to purchase them. Either that or they join my traveling
train fleet for shows with rough handling.

Grateful but not Dead,

Dave

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 7, 2014, at 5:50 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <
STMFC@...> wrote:

Dave Bott asked:
"I bought a set of Accurail HO scale wooden box car kits at $3 each to
practice weathering on wooden boxcars, SS and DS, before I tackle my
resin kits. But if I'm going to the trouble of putting these together
and weather them, I'd like to know if I can make them match anything
reasonably well and with what level of effort.

The first one is an Erie car with road number is 92514 and according
to the data on the side, it was a 50 ton car built in 1923. It is
Accurail's single sheathed 40' boxcar kit with wood door and 7-7
corrugated steel ends. (I didn't see the 4200 series listed in the
Accurail catalog on their web site, but the 4100 and 4300 series
showed Erie-lettered offerings).

My 1926 ORER on DVD does list 199 Erie cars in the 92500-92699 series
of 50 ton capacity, interior dimensions of L 40'9" x W 8'6" and H 9'2
1/8" for 3098 cu ft capacity, and a 6' door. It also states in
footnote BB that some cars in this series were lettered for the New
Jersey & New York Railroad. I'm not an Erie modeler or historian, so
I haven't seen a photo of such a car, and I'm not even sure the
Accurail model is anything other than roughly analogous to a
prototype for this or any other railroad."

Your Accurail model is masquerading as Erie 92500-92699, 200 USRA SS
boxcars. These were rebuilt with radial roofs and steel sides inside the
original truss in 1936, renumbered to Erie 71800-71999, and ran
into the mid-1950s. See Larry Kline's spreadsheet in the group files
section for more details. Correct HO scale models are in the Westerfield
line but are currently unavailable.

The Accurail 4200 and 4300 series models have a superficial resemblance
to the USRA SS boxcar, but the side truss members, roof, ends, and
underframe are different. That being said, the Accurail kits are very good
stand-ins for the much larger group of "Bettendorf" SS boxcars built for
many different roads during the 1920s, especially if you replace the
fishbelly centersills with straight centersills. See Richard Hendrickson's
"40 ft SS Z-Braced Boxcars: Part I (Single-Door Cars)" in the February 1993
issue of Railmodel Journal, John Nehrich's "Bettendorf Boxcar" in the
August 1996 issue of Mainline Modeler, and Tim Swan's "More Variations on
Accurail's SS Boxcar" in the June 1997 issue of Model RailroadING for ideas.

Ben Hom




Messages in this topic (5)
__________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: cepropst@q.com rockroll50401
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

I just finished a rework of an Accurail SS car. I’m curious Dave, what
weathering techniques do you plan to try?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Messages in this topic (5)
__________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:09 am ((PST))

Gouache wash for soot/grime, various powder pigments.

One concern is how to do it realistic with the metal framework cutting
across horizontal siding. The Accurail exaggerated wood grain seems
problematic and not good prep for most resin cars too.

I'd like to get five-ten year used look with appropriate wear, chalk
graffiti, and perhaps board replacement effects without caricature look. A
car built in twenties but now in early 30s.

I followed Tony's blog entries and recent MRH articles on weathering
with interest. I have previously used oils and filters per the military
modeler Mig Jimenez. Previously I used a version of Jim Six's spray rust
brown with airbrush and remove most with cotton swab or sponge. I've yet to
find a technique I can do well, even with practice. So I try another. My
first dilute gouache attempt on Athearn yellow reefer came out decent, but
heavy. Wondering if it will work better on BCR paint.

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:00 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <
STMFC@...> wrote:

I just finished a rework of an Accurail SS car. I’m curious Dave, what
weathering techniques do you plan to try?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Messages in this topic (5)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
3a. Re: CN SS box car roof
Posted by: destorzek@... soolinehistory
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:53 am ((PST))







---In STMFC@..., <frograbbit602@...> wrote :



"At a Great Train Show this past weekend I picked up an Accurail kit,
kit number 4310, CN SS box, car number 463075. When I look at the Morning
Sun CN Color Guide, p. 7, I find Accurail got the ends, sides, fishbelly
underframe correct, and the car number in the correct series 462000-463999.
Car lettering is good. With improvements such as lower door guide, power
brakes, wire grabs, ladder rework, etc. the car can become a creditable
prototype model. The one item I cannot see in the CN Color Guide is the
roof and no mention of the roof type in the photo caption. Accurail did a
Hutchins roof. I am wondering if this roof is correct. Appreciate any help
you can give. Thanks in advance.

Lester Breuer"





Guess I'll have to respond to this before it gets lost behind the other
Accurail thread. If I recall, CN

462000-463999 were single door rebuilds of door and a half auto cars,
the only group that matched the boxcars in height rather than being 10'-0"
IH. The Canadian Car & Foundry drawings for both the boxcars with composite
ends and these auto cars show Hutchins roofs.





Dennis Storzek



















Messages in this topic (2)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
4a. Re: Ma&Pa decals wtb
Posted by: martinwb@... mwbpequod
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 5:58 am ((PST))

Brad



You might look into the dry transfer sets from Clover House as an
alternative as you might be able to adapt those to your needs.



Martin Brechbiel







Messages in this topic (10)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
Posted by: tangentscalemodels@... tangentscalemodels
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

Tangent Scale Models is proud to introduce our next ALL-NEW freight car
replica, the General American 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car with Welded
Underframe. Following World War II, specialized liquid shippers requested
new special duty tank cars, and General American Transportation Corporation
met their demands by producing specific-service cars such as this 8,000
gallon acid service tank car. At the same time, General American switched
from a riveted underframe and riveted tank design to a welded underframe
and tank. While General American’s factory in Sharon PA manufactured at
least three different post-war versions of 8,000 gallon acid all-welded
tank cars, these specific prototypes were produced between 1949 and 1960.
Like all Tangent Scale Models offerings, these tank cars had long service
lives, lasting well into the 1980s in revenue service. Acid service tank
cars were commonly-seen nationwide, providing transportation for strong
chemical compounds, such as hydrochloric (muriatic), hydrofluoric,
phosphoric, and sulfuric acids. Acid tank cars were rubber-lined, featured
one percent expansion domes on the top, and did not have bottom tank
outlets.



The Tangent Scale Models General American 8,000 gallon acid tank car is
a visually-distinctive model that includes details accurate for each paint
scheme. Note the distinctive small expansion dome at the top, surrounded by
a beautifully-rendered “see-through” safety walkway. Our walkways along the
side of the car are also “see-through” safety tread, just like their
prototypes. As always, our correct “true-to-life” colors and
“hyper-accurate” lettering includes exact fonts and lettering placement.
Finally, our scale replicas operate as well as they look, equipped with
free-rolling all-metal wheels and Kadee® scale couplers, meaning our models
are truly ready to run.



This is NOT a pre-order announcement. Our NEW Ready to Run replicas are
available NOW at www.tangentscalemodels.com and we are selling these at
Trainfest in Milwaukee on November 8-9. Whether wearing “plain” GATX lease
colors or the colors of a lessee, these replicas will certainly be
eye-catchers on your layout! Our first stunning release includes four paint
schemes:



- GATX “Black Lease 1952+” in the plain “black lease 1952+” scheme. This
GATX black lease scheme represents a general lease car in service beginning
in 1952 and is broadly applicable across North America. It is available in
four road numbers.

- GATX “Stauffer Chemical Company” in the distinctive gray and black
scheme with a 1953 paint date and 1949 build date, complete with the
Stauffer diamond logo and Victor Chemical Division lettering, just like the
prototype car. These stunning cars are available in four road numbers.

- GATX “The D O W Chemical Company” in the black scheme with striking
yellow graphics including “Freeport Texas” lettering. These nationwide
service cars include a 1953 paint date on the side of the car. This GATX
lease scheme is available in four road numbers.

- GATX "White Lease 1971+” in the striking “white lease 1971+” scheme
which includes a large black stripe in the middle of the car. These cars
were repainted in 1971, which of course is modeled after an exact prototype
photo. These cars lasted in service into the 1990s, and are available in
four road numbers.

- Undecorated RTR Black 1949-1951 cars are immediately ready for
decaling!

- Undecorated RTR Black 1951-1960 cars are immediately ready for
decaling!

- Undecorated Unpainted Kits are available as well for those who desire
to build their own.



Features for these awesome replicas include:

- Welded body and welded underframe

- “See-through” running board wraps around the underframe

- “See-through” dome platform with lacey handrail detail

- Distinctive dome appliances and profile

- Dimensionally-correct hazardous placards with accurate hole detail

- Separately applied tank handrail

- Separately applied tank strap detail

- Full “lacy” AB brake detail and train air line

- Highly correct “true to life” colors

- “Hyper-Accurate” lettering including exact fonts and lettering
placement

- Accurate lettering applied to the underframe and air reservoir

- Road-specific poling pockets in the bolsters for each scheme

- Durable wire grab irons and coupler lift bars

- Separate air hoses

- “Near-scale” draft gear box with side detail

- Kadee® “scale-head” couplers

- CNC-machined 33” wheels in NEW high-quality Tangent Scale Models ASF
cast steel truck with spring plank and with separate brake beams

- Replacement semi-scale wheels available separately from Tangent

- Multiple road numbers for each scheme

- Recommended age 14 years and older



Don’t miss out on the Tangent Scale Models General American 8,000 gallon
acid tank car! Just like its prototype, this car is tiny in size and will
stand out extremely well on any layout situated from the 1940s to the 1990s!



Pricing for RTR models is $44.95. High-resolution images showing these
fine replicas are available at www.tangentscalemodels.com
http://www.tangentscalemodels.com/ and our site also includes prototype
images for your reference as well.



That wraps up our update for today, and thank you for supporting the
family-owned businesses in our industry!



David Lehlbach – live from Milwaukee WI at Trainfest!

Tangent Scale Models - “Unparalleled scale replicas for discriminating
railroad modelers”

www.tangentscalemodels.com http://www.tangentscalemodels.com/

support@... mailto:tangentscalemodels@...

PO Box 6514

Asheville NC 28816



828-279-6106









Messages in this topic (1)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
6a. Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making
Posted by: "Anspach Denny" danspachmd@... docdenny34
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:56 am ((PST))

I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of,
and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools.
However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders
of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their
probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to
judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a
result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the
same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting
ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an
expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?

What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?

What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?

What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a
basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento








Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
6b. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Andy Carlson" midcentury@...
midcentury@...
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:52 am ((PST))

Hi everyone-

I have a Swiss diamond faced file I purchased decades ago from PBL, the
Sn3 guys in Ukiah, CA (in the traditional wine country). It is my go-to
file for almost every model project. It has a smooth surface for something
that has great removing ability. I can remove a riveted panel seam from a
box car side and only need to follow up with 400 grit sand paper to get a
paint-ready surface. Never has worn out and, oddly, requires very little
cleaning. It is practically self-clearing. Tis file, along with my dial
caliper, remains as my favorite tools.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



________________________________
From: "Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC]" <
STMFC@...>
To: List Steam Era Freight Car <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for
model-making.




I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of,
and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools.
However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders
of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their
probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to
judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a
result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the
same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting
ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an
expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?


What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?


What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?


What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a
basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?


Denny




Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento










Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
6c. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Jack Burgess" jack@... yvrrus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:56 am ((PST))

Denny....



Interesting that you should ask! There is an article in the new
(November) Model Railroad Hobbyist that I wrote on files, reamers, etc. I
too finally gave up on the cheap vinyl folders of files some time ago and
bought some individual files from McMaster-Carr since you can buy just what
you want in the shape and "cut" you want. More recently, I bought some 4.5"
long but very small cross section files from Otto Frei called escapement
files which can get into very tight spaces. All of these files were about
$15 each, not bad. More information in the article.



I also talk about a diamond sharpeners a friend told me which are used
to sharpen wood working tools. They consist of an absolutely flat resin
body covered by an industrial diamond sharpening surface with an
“interrupted” polka-dot pattern to collect the fines removed during use.
While designed for sharpening tools, they are wonderful tools for filing
down long surfaces such as the floor or underbody casting for a resin
freight car, filing the roof walk supports on resin house cars so that they
are all level, and sanding the back of thin resin castings to remove flash.
Rather than holding a file to do these tasks, the sharpener is put on the
workbench and the part moved over it. One of the advantages of a diamond
sharpener is that, unlike a file, it cuts when moving the part in any
direction. I came up with even a better way to sand roof walk supports
after I'd submitted the article but by putting a square or angle plate on
the diamond sharpener, you can make sure that the box car or refrigerator
car you are sanding the top of remains square to the sharpener while you
are filing down the roof walk supports. They aren't cheap ($100) but make
so many tasks easier, quicker, and more accurate...



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 7:57 AM
To: List Steam Era Freight Car
Subject: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for
model-making.





I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of,
and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools.
However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders
of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their
probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to
judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a
result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the
same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting
ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an
expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?



What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?



What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?



What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a
basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?



Denny





Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento




















Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
6d. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "jon miller" atsfus@... atsfus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:58 am ((PST))

/On 11/7/2014 7:56 AM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC]
wrote://
/
/What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?/
/
/
/What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?/
/
/
/What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise
as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and
brass? /
Denny,
(1) I have always used this criteria for tools. If it's you
business and/or profession use the best tools available. If it's for
home owner work use Harbor Freight. Model making is somewhere in the
middle. So if you do model making as a profession and/or a lot of it
for the hobby use very good tools (if they are in your income range).
Otherwise Amazon is your friend. Stuff from China is usually delivered
in about a week or so.

(2) No comment

(3) No comment

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS





Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
6e. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Jack Burgess" jack@... yvrrus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:22 am ((PST))

I look at it very differently. I enjoy using nice tools which will do
exactly the job needed and are a pleasure to work with. You can build
benchwork with a handsaw and screwdriver but your joints will most likely
be less than desired although they might still get the job done. If you
like to be proud of the work you do and enjoy pushing yourself to always do
your best, whether at work or in a hobby, the cost of a chop saw and
electric drill will pay for themselves to build that benchwork.



I enjoy putting together resin freight cars and scratchbuilding. The
cost of the tools that I buy is thus offset by the fact that I don't buy
RTR freight cars or structure kits.



When I give clinics on tools for model builders, I like to point out
that our tools are not expensive at all compared to other hobbies. I have a
drill press that I love which now costs upward of $600. But it does exactly
what I want and I've been using it for nearly 40 years. If my hobby was
cooking, I'd spend that much on a mixer!



Jack Burgess





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 8:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best
for model-making.








On 11/7/2014 7:56 AM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] wrote:

What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?



What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?



What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a
basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?


Denny,
(1) I have always used this criteria for tools. If it's you business
and/or profession use the best tools available. If it's for home owner work
use Harbor Freight. Model making is somewhere in the middle. So if you do
model making as a profession and/or a lot of it for the hobby use very good
tools (if they are in your income range). Otherwise Amazon is your friend.
Stuff from China is usually delivered in about a week or so.

(2) No comment

(3) No comment




--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS












Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
6f. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "O Fenton Wells" srrfan1401@... srrfan1401
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:28 am ((PST))

Good point Jack, let's not even go to the new set of Pings or the Scotty
Cameron putter!

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...




Messages in this topic (6)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
7. New photo collection going online at the Barriger Library
Posted by: borhsarchives@... nfryumbc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:35 am ((PST))

The John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library is uploading a new
collection of images to Flickr. The Robert G. and Hansell Lewis Collection.
Some photos are identified, some are not. Many are steam era in the US,
Canada and Mexico. Any help in identifying images would be very much
appreciated.



barrigerlibrary http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary



http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary



barrigerlibrary http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary Established in
1984 as a special collection of the St. Louis Mercantile Library, the John
W. Barriger III National Railroad Library stands today as one o...







View on www.flickr.com http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary

Preview by Yahoo







Thanks again.



Take Care

-Nick Fry



Curator

John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library at UMSL









Messages in this topic (1)
__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
8. Conversion kits for SP 40' B-50-27 box cars
Posted by: "Andy Carlson" midcentury@...
midcentury@...
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:04 am ((PST))



Hello,
I have been offering HO SP 12 panel 40' box cars until recently when two
of the components became temporary unavailable. I am now prepared to offer
another HO Southern Pacific 40' undec box car component kit with
enhancements.



The SP B-50-27 was the last 6' door boxcar on the SP roster, and the
first SP box car to feature the diagonal panel roof. This class also
debuted the 3rd variant of improved Youngstown steel door, the 4/6/6 (the
-25 and -26 cars used the 5/6/5 version). This door is made in gray Styrene
by SouthWest Scale Models.

I have 6 of these kits. Components include a complete Intermountain
undecorated gray'37 AAR box car kit #40799. The roof, ends, doors and
ladders from this donor kit are not used and are supplemented with 1) an
Intermountain 40' diagonal panel roof; 2) a pair of Intermountain
"thin"R+3/4 improved dreadnaught ends (accurately having no poling
pockets); 3) a pair of Southwest Scale Models 4/6/6 IY doors; 4) two sprues
of 8-rung ladders which are supplied to replace the kit's wrong 7-rung
ladders (Each sprue contains 2 8-rung ladders, so two sprues are included
to get the necessary four ladders). No paint, decals, couplers, trucks or
metal running boards included. I accept checks and money orders. For a
small fee I also accept PayPal.


I am selling these 2 enhanced kits for $28/each, 1st class air mail
shipping included. If interested, please contact me OFF-LIST at <
midcentury@...>

Thanks, -Andy Carlson



Messages in this topic (1)





----------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links



----------------------------------------------------------
--
clzeni@...



--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Red Swift reefers

Bud Rindfleisch
 

I'm a little late to this discussion but I recently came across a photo of a Swift wood reefer, SRLX 6017, in a derailment and the roof shows vividly, definitely oxide red. The pic is in the Morning Sun book Trackside around Sayre-Waverly-Towanda. Pgs 44 and 45. Derailment is on the LV photo undated but looks to be early 50's.
    Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Was Great Northern Omaha Orange _ Now Tru Color matches

Pierre Oliver
 

IN terms of application, I've found that it requires a higher pressure than lacquers, but it does spray well unthinned.
My other source of unhappiness with Tru-Color is coverage. For me, it takes almost twice as much material to get the same coverage as Scalecoat or Floquil. A tad upsetting when a whole bottle is required for an O scale boxcar.
With the demise of Floquil, I've adjusted my procedure to Scalecoat and am quite happy. And there is still a large selection of colours from the Testors Model Masters line for military models. And it's an enamel product.
I won't work with acrylics unless I absolutely have to.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 11/8/2014 11:34 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Pierre,



With regards to  Tru-Color's rendition of what they call ATSF BROWN which I presumed was supposed to represent  Mineral Red/Brown.Like you, I found the color looked way to brown and I mixed it 50/50 with B&M Maroon to bring it back around. I is still browner that my IMWX ATSF BX-27. 





Let me ask how you found it to spray. I tried a variation of air mixture and viscosity and was never really happy with the way it laid down. Once I finally found an agreeable "mix" and I will keep what I have but I am looking for a better solution, and I have found a couple colors I really like in another line of paint. 



Okay Sheriff I'll go quietly... What's for diner Dog's Breakfast Stew?



Greg Martin  ( sent with a full signature)



 






BX12 raised roof B end

Scott
 

I am building a westerfield kit and was wonder if somebody had a picture of the completed B end.  I am trying to figure out where the retainer goes and how it mounts.  I set this project aside this summer when I got busy with summer stuff and can't find the instructions.


Thanks,

Scott McDonald


Was Great Northern Omaha Orange _ Now Tru Color matches

Greg Martin
 


Pierre Oliver Wrote:
"To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Nov 8, 2014 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Great Northern Omaha Orange

 
Well here's the thing for me with Tru-Color paints.
They currently list over 100 railroad specific colors. In the first 4-5 dozen I've looked at they use about 8 colors and relabel for various roads as required.
Their ATSF boxcar red and CNR boxcar red, to name 2 are far browner than what I'd expect to see.
But, as we all know it's all very subjective.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com"

Pierre,

With regards to Tru-Color's rendition of what they call ATSF BROWN which I presumed was supposed to represent Mineral Red/Brown.Like you, I found the color looked way to brown and I mixed it 50/50 with B&M Maroon to bring it back around. I is still browner that my IMWX ATSF BX-27.


Let me ask how you found it to spray. I tried a variation of air mixture and viscosity and was never really happy with the way it laid down. Once I finally found an agreeable "mix" and I will keep what I have but I am looking for a better solution, and I have found a couple colors I really like in another line of paint.

Okay Sheriff I'll go quietly... What's for diner Dog's Breakfast Stew?

Greg Martin ( sent with a full signature)

 



Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

I think the first plastic cars for PPCO were painted DuPont “Phillips Petroleum Gray.”

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 7:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Great Northern Omaha Orange

 

 

Ross Dando wrote:



 

Back in the late '90's I worked with DuPont on colors for a project at my company.. There was a DuPont guy who had a list of the various DuPont lines and the corresponding color mixes to get each product line to match. Yeah, I need to go digging and find the paper and scan it for everyone to see. Point being, there are many colors that the railroads used which were the same. Also, the paint was many times was mixed by a local paint dealer so if may not exactly match the original color from the formula.  I was amazed to see the mix code for RI, ATSF, and SP red fron the '40's was the same. 

 

     Yes, that red is called Socony Red, originally used by Standard Oil.

     There are two different issues being raised here: was every railroad's color set unique (pretty clearly not), and are paint companies like Tru-Color really matching to prototype chips, whether or not the color(s) may be the same as some other railroad. I believe the latter to be "yes," whether or not you personally find their colors "too dark" or "too green" or whatever. We all have to find a set of colors that look "right" to us on our layouts (or display cases), and the prototype color is only one way to start. Obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 


Re: NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car

Brian Carlson
 

Fwiw I did a happy dance and have already ordered 5. Two black, one Dow, one Stauffer, and one 1971 (whenever that is) lease repaint. The 71 is for my club. 
Brian Carlson. 


On Nov 8, 2014, at 9:12 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I'm a little surprised at the lack of response to this
announcement...I got a look at the car today at Trainfest in Milwaukee
and, as one expects from Tangent, the car's gorgeous. I'm not a tank
car guy so I can't comment on accuracy but again, with Tangent, I'd
expect it to be very good indeed.

I didn't buy any - flying home tomorrow - but will be ordering some this week.

      The web site says the cars will be available on November 17, so other than Trainfest, people haven't seen them yet. I certainly mean to buy some.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car

Tony Thompson
 

I'm a little surprised at the lack of response to this
announcement...I got a look at the car today at Trainfest in Milwaukee
and, as one expects from Tangent, the car's gorgeous. I'm not a tank
car guy so I can't comment on accuracy but again, with Tangent, I'd
expect it to be very good indeed.

I didn't buy any - flying home tomorrow - but will be ordering some this week.

      The web site says the cars will be available on November 17, so other than Trainfest, people haven't seen them yet. I certainly mean to buy some.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Tim wrote:

[Snip] Fortunately simple "darkness" can be overcome by
addition of some pure white. Adding a bright oxide or a maroon can shift it towards or
away from russet, respectively.

That might work with Tru-Color paints (which I haven't tried yet...I still have a huge stash of Floquil) but white will turn Floquil Box Car Red pink. I use yellow instead to fade or lighten BC Red, something I learned several decades ago from one of many mentors I've had.

Jack Burgess


Re: NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car

Craig Zeni
 

I'm a little surprised at the lack of response to this
announcement...I got a look at the car today at Trainfest in Milwaukee
and, as one expects from Tangent, the car's gorgeous. I'm not a tank
car guy so I can't comment on accuracy but again, with Tangent, I'd
expect it to be very good indeed.

I didn't buy any - flying home tomorrow - but will be ordering some this week.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
Posted by: tangentscalemodels@... tangentscalemodels
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

Tangent Scale Models is proud to introduce our next ALL-NEW freight
car replica, the General American 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car with
Welded Underframe. Following World War II, specialized liquid
shippers requested new special duty tank cars, and General American
Transportation Corporation met their demands by producing
specific-service cars such as this 8,000 gallon acid service tank car.
At the same time, General American switched from a riveted underframe
and riveted tank design to a welded underframe and tank. While
General American’s factory in Sharon PA manufactured at least three
different post-war versions of 8,000 gallon acid all-welded tank cars,
these specific prototypes were produced between 1949 and 1960. Like
all Tangent Scale Models offerings, these tank cars had long service
lives, lasting well into the 1980s in revenue service. Acid service
tank cars were commonly-seen nationwide, providing transportation for
strong chemical compounds, such as hydrochloric (muriatic),
hydrofluoric, phosphoric, and sulfuric acids. Acid tank cars were
rubber-lined, featured one percent expansion domes on the top, and did
not have bottom tank outlets.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 12:28 PM, <STMFC@...> wrote:
There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Red Swift reefers
From: Garth Groff

2a. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: David bott
2b. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: rockroll50401
2c. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
From: David Bott

3a. Re: CN SS box car roof
From: soolinehistory

4a. Re: Ma&Pa decals wtb
From: mwbpequod

5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
From: tangentscalemodels

6a. Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making
From: Anspach Denny
6b. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Andy Carlson
6c. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Jack Burgess
6d. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: jon miller
6e. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: Jack Burgess
6f. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
From: O Fenton Wells

7. New photo collection going online at the Barriger Library
From: nfryumbc

8. Conversion kits for SP 40' B-50-27 box cars
From: Andy Carlson


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1.1. Re: Red Swift reefers
Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:38 am ((PST))

Doug,

Good call on the BCR ends! Also note that this car has the heavy
underframe bolsters which are open at the ends, while most of the other
wooden cars have a metal side sill. This car is also considerably
shorter than its yellow companion. I'm still trying to decide if this
car lacks the white roof fascia, or it if the facia is actually white
and just badly weathered. Oh, no! Have I just stirred up another
controversy?

The steel cars such as 15307 seem to have some sort of lever running
from the right side of the draft gear up to the roof level. It appears
on the A end of this car, and on the B end of the steel car immediately
behind car 5423. Does anyone know what this device was for?

Several other details come to mind in the Berkstresser photos. None of
the wooden cars seem to have hatch platforms. Remember the old Varney
car with the black plastic roof and hatch platforms from the early
1950s? [Remember Varney? If you can, then I'm surprised you can remember
anything! I know how hard it's getting.] There is another yellow car
hiding in the row behind the more prominent one. Look just above and to
the right of the building roof. Also note the color detail of the steel
cars' hatches, plugs and covers. Anyone who builds one of the steel cars
with open hatches should note which parts are white.

Finally, image how this yard smells. To be truly accurate, shouldn't we
be adding smells to our models? :~)

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/6/14 11:26 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@...
[STMFC] wrote:

Ok now that we have settled the issue that we are not arguing, I have
a question about the photo of Swift reefers at Sioux City. Just beyond
the single yellow car Mike notes, appears a red car with what appears
to be a BCR end. And there is a second red wood car closer to camera
that also appears to have a BCR end. Of course all the other red cars
appear to have ends the same color as the sides. But those two cars
make we wonder, what color did Swift paint the ends on their red cars.
Was it bright red or BCR? Is the end BCR or is just "weathering"?

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org <http://www.iowacentralrr.org>





Messages in this topic (66)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: "David bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:46 am ((PST))

Thank you, Ben. As always you answer with patience and clarity, unsurpassed. I marvel.

I now see my error in not thinking to check the files for a database. Perhaps at least, my error will allow others to learn or recall the files exist. So much to learn, so little time.

I think these kits will remain as built and hopefully weathered nicely enough for someone to purchase them. Either that or they join my traveling train fleet for shows with rough handling.

Grateful but not Dead,

Dave

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 7, 2014, at 5:50 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Dave Bott asked:
"I bought a set of Accurail HO scale wooden box car kits at $3 each to
practice weathering on wooden boxcars, SS and DS, before I tackle my
resin kits. But if I'm going to the trouble of putting these together
and weather them, I'd like to know if I can make them match anything
reasonably well and with what level of effort.

The first one is an Erie car with road number is 92514 and according
to the data on the side, it was a 50 ton car built in 1923. It is
Accurail's single sheathed 40' boxcar kit with wood door and 7-7
corrugated steel ends. (I didn't see the 4200 series listed in the
Accurail catalog on their web site, but the 4100 and 4300 series
showed Erie-lettered offerings).

My 1926 ORER on DVD does list 199 Erie cars in the 92500-92699 series
of 50 ton capacity, interior dimensions of L 40'9" x W 8'6" and H 9'2
1/8" for 3098 cu ft capacity, and a 6' door. It also states in
footnote BB that some cars in this series were lettered for the New
Jersey & New York Railroad. I'm not an Erie modeler or historian, so
I haven't seen a photo of such a car, and I'm not even sure the
Accurail model is anything other than roughly analogous to a
prototype for this or any other railroad."

Your Accurail model is masquerading as Erie 92500-92699, 200 USRA SS boxcars. These were rebuilt with radial roofs and steel sides inside the original truss in 1936, renumbered to Erie 71800-71999, and ran
into the mid-1950s. See Larry Kline's spreadsheet in the group files section for more details. Correct HO scale models are in the Westerfield line but are currently unavailable.

The Accurail 4200 and 4300 series models have a superficial resemblance to the USRA SS boxcar, but the side truss members, roof, ends, and underframe are different. That being said, the Accurail kits are very good stand-ins for the much larger group of "Bettendorf" SS boxcars built for many different roads during the 1920s, especially if you replace the fishbelly centersills with straight centersills. See Richard Hendrickson's "40 ft SS Z-Braced Boxcars: Part I (Single-Door Cars)" in the February 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal, John Nehrich's "Bettendorf Boxcar" in the August 1996 issue of Mainline Modeler, and Tim Swan's "More Variations on Accurail's SS Boxcar" in the June 1997 issue of Model RailroadING for ideas.

Ben Hom




Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: cepropst@q.com rockroll50401
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

I just finished a rework of an Accurail SS car. I’m curious Dave, what weathering techniques do you plan to try?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Accurail 4211 Erie SS boxcar w wood door
Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:09 am ((PST))

Gouache wash for soot/grime, various powder pigments.

One concern is how to do it realistic with the metal framework cutting across horizontal siding. The Accurail exaggerated wood grain seems problematic and not good prep for most resin cars too.

I'd like to get five-ten year used look with appropriate wear, chalk graffiti, and perhaps board replacement effects without caricature look. A car built in twenties but now in early 30s.

I followed Tony's blog entries and recent MRH articles on weathering with interest. I have previously used oils and filters per the military modeler Mig Jimenez. Previously I used a version of Jim Six's spray rust brown with airbrush and remove most with cotton swab or sponge. I've yet to find a technique I can do well, even with practice. So I try another. My first dilute gouache attempt on Athearn yellow reefer came out decent, but heavy. Wondering if it will work better on BCR paint.

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:00 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I just finished a rework of an Accurail SS car. I’m curious Dave, what weathering techniques do you plan to try?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: CN SS box car roof
Posted by: destorzek@... soolinehistory
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:53 am ((PST))







---In STMFC@..., <frograbbit602@...> wrote :



"At a Great Train Show this past weekend I picked up an Accurail kit, kit number 4310, CN SS box, car number 463075. When I look at the Morning Sun CN Color Guide, p. 7, I find Accurail got the ends, sides, fishbelly underframe correct, and the car number in the correct series 462000-463999. Car lettering is good. With improvements such as lower door guide, power brakes, wire grabs, ladder rework, etc. the car can become a creditable prototype model. The one item I cannot see in the CN Color Guide is the roof and no mention of the roof type in the photo caption. Accurail did a Hutchins roof. I am wondering if this roof is correct. Appreciate any help you can give. Thanks in advance.

Lester Breuer"





Guess I'll have to respond to this before it gets lost behind the other Accurail thread. If I recall, CN

462000-463999 were single door rebuilds of door and a half auto cars, the only group that matched the boxcars in height rather than being 10'-0" IH. The Canadian Car & Foundry drawings for both the boxcars with composite ends and these auto cars show Hutchins roofs.





Dennis Storzek



















Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: Ma&Pa decals wtb
Posted by: martinwb@... mwbpequod
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 5:58 am ((PST))

Brad



You might look into the dry transfer sets from Clover House as an alternative as you might be able to adapt those to your needs.



Martin Brechbiel







Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5. NEW Tangent Scale Models GA 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car
Posted by: tangentscalemodels@... tangentscalemodels
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:00 am ((PST))

Tangent Scale Models is proud to introduce our next ALL-NEW freight car replica, the General American 8,000 Gallon Acid Tank Car with Welded Underframe. Following World War II, specialized liquid shippers requested new special duty tank cars, and General American Transportation Corporation met their demands by producing specific-service cars such as this 8,000 gallon acid service tank car. At the same time, General American switched from a riveted underframe and riveted tank design to a welded underframe and tank. While General American’s factory in Sharon PA manufactured at least three different post-war versions of 8,000 gallon acid all-welded tank cars, these specific prototypes were produced between 1949 and 1960. Like all Tangent Scale Models offerings, these tank cars had long service lives, lasting well into the 1980s in revenue service. Acid service tank cars were commonly-seen nationwide, providing transportation for strong chemical compounds, such as hydrochloric (muriatic), hydrofluoric, phosphoric, and sulfuric acids. Acid tank cars were rubber-lined, featured one percent expansion domes on the top, and did not have bottom tank outlets.



The Tangent Scale Models General American 8,000 gallon acid tank car is a visually-distinctive model that includes details accurate for each paint scheme. Note the distinctive small expansion dome at the top, surrounded by a beautifully-rendered “see-through” safety walkway. Our walkways along the side of the car are also “see-through” safety tread, just like their prototypes. As always, our correct “true-to-life” colors and “hyper-accurate” lettering includes exact fonts and lettering placement. Finally, our scale replicas operate as well as they look, equipped with free-rolling all-metal wheels and Kadee® scale couplers, meaning our models are truly ready to run.



This is NOT a pre-order announcement. Our NEW Ready to Run replicas are available NOW at www.tangentscalemodels.com and we are selling these at Trainfest in Milwaukee on November 8-9. Whether wearing “plain” GATX lease colors or the colors of a lessee, these replicas will certainly be eye-catchers on your layout! Our first stunning release includes four paint schemes:



- GATX “Black Lease 1952+” in the plain “black lease 1952+” scheme. This GATX black lease scheme represents a general lease car in service beginning in 1952 and is broadly applicable across North America. It is available in four road numbers.

- GATX “Stauffer Chemical Company” in the distinctive gray and black scheme with a 1953 paint date and 1949 build date, complete with the Stauffer diamond logo and Victor Chemical Division lettering, just like the prototype car. These stunning cars are available in four road numbers.

- GATX “The D O W Chemical Company” in the black scheme with striking yellow graphics including “Freeport Texas” lettering. These nationwide service cars include a 1953 paint date on the side of the car. This GATX lease scheme is available in four road numbers.

- GATX "White Lease 1971+” in the striking “white lease 1971+” scheme which includes a large black stripe in the middle of the car. These cars were repainted in 1971, which of course is modeled after an exact prototype photo. These cars lasted in service into the 1990s, and are available in four road numbers.

- Undecorated RTR Black 1949-1951 cars are immediately ready for decaling!

- Undecorated RTR Black 1951-1960 cars are immediately ready for decaling!

- Undecorated Unpainted Kits are available as well for those who desire to build their own.



Features for these awesome replicas include:

- Welded body and welded underframe

- “See-through” running board wraps around the underframe

- “See-through” dome platform with lacey handrail detail

- Distinctive dome appliances and profile

- Dimensionally-correct hazardous placards with accurate hole detail

- Separately applied tank handrail

- Separately applied tank strap detail

- Full “lacy” AB brake detail and train air line

- Highly correct “true to life” colors

- “Hyper-Accurate” lettering including exact fonts and lettering placement

- Accurate lettering applied to the underframe and air reservoir

- Road-specific poling pockets in the bolsters for each scheme

- Durable wire grab irons and coupler lift bars

- Separate air hoses

- “Near-scale” draft gear box with side detail

- Kadee® “scale-head” couplers

- CNC-machined 33” wheels in NEW high-quality Tangent Scale Models ASF cast steel truck with spring plank and with separate brake beams

- Replacement semi-scale wheels available separately from Tangent

- Multiple road numbers for each scheme

- Recommended age 14 years and older



Don’t miss out on the Tangent Scale Models General American 8,000 gallon acid tank car! Just like its prototype, this car is tiny in size and will stand out extremely well on any layout situated from the 1940s to the 1990s!



Pricing for RTR models is $44.95. High-resolution images showing these fine replicas are available at www.tangentscalemodels.com http://www.tangentscalemodels.com/ and our site also includes prototype images for your reference as well.



That wraps up our update for today, and thank you for supporting the family-owned businesses in our industry!



David Lehlbach – live from Milwaukee WI at Trainfest!

Tangent Scale Models - “Unparalleled scale replicas for discriminating railroad modelers”

www.tangentscalemodels.com http://www.tangentscalemodels.com/

support@... mailto:tangentscalemodels@...

PO Box 6514

Asheville NC 28816



828-279-6106









Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making
Posted by: "Anspach Denny" danspachmd@... docdenny34
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:56 am ((PST))

I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of, and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools. However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?

What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in this regard?

What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?

What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento








Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
6b. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Andy Carlson" midcentury@... midcentury@...
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:52 am ((PST))

Hi everyone-

I have a Swiss diamond faced file I purchased decades ago from PBL, the Sn3 guys in Ukiah, CA (in the traditional wine country). It is my go-to file for almost every model project. It has a smooth surface for something that has great removing ability. I can remove a riveted panel seam from a box car side and only need to follow up with 400 grit sand paper to get a paint-ready surface. Never has worn out and, oddly, requires very little cleaning. It is practically self-clearing. Tis file, along with my dial caliper, remains as my favorite tools.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



________________________________
From: "Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: List Steam Era Freight Car <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making.




I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of, and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools. However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?


What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in this regard?


What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?


What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?


Denny




Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento










Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
6c. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Jack Burgess" jack@... yvrrus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:56 am ((PST))

Denny....



Interesting that you should ask! There is an article in the new (November) Model Railroad Hobbyist that I wrote on files, reamers, etc. I too finally gave up on the cheap vinyl folders of files some time ago and bought some individual files from McMaster-Carr since you can buy just what you want in the shape and "cut" you want. More recently, I bought some 4.5" long but very small cross section files from Otto Frei called escapement files which can get into very tight spaces. All of these files were about $15 each, not bad. More information in the article.



I also talk about a diamond sharpeners a friend told me which are used to sharpen wood working tools. They consist of an absolutely flat resin body covered by an industrial diamond sharpening surface with an “interrupted” polka-dot pattern to collect the fines removed during use. While designed for sharpening tools, they are wonderful tools for filing down long surfaces such as the floor or underbody casting for a resin freight car, filing the roof walk supports on resin house cars so that they are all level, and sanding the back of thin resin castings to remove flash. Rather than holding a file to do these tasks, the sharpener is put on the workbench and the part moved over it. One of the advantages of a diamond sharpener is that, unlike a file, it cuts when moving the part in any direction. I came up with even a better way to sand roof walk supports after I'd submitted the article but by putting a square or angle plate on the diamond sharpener, you can make sure that the box car or refrigerator car you are sanding the top of remains square to the sharpener while you are filing down the roof walk supports. They aren't cheap ($100) but make so many tasks easier, quicker, and more accurate...



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 7:57 AM
To: List Steam Era Freight Car
Subject: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making.





I have long been a practitioner of, and advocate for the purchase of, and extended -read lifetime- use of very fine hand and modeling tools. However, for years I have also been purchasing the ubiquitous vinyl folders of cheap Asian “Swiss Pattern” files, which I tend to use far beyond their probably very short useful life, because I simply do not yet know how to judge when to toss them! I end up doing a lot of collateral damage as a result. A brief Google search confirms that really-fine file sets of the same type (Swiss) cost up to about $150! Wow! How much more cutting ability, finer finish, and how much more life could I expect with such an expenditure; i.e. how much am I missing?



What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in this regard?



What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?



What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?



Denny





Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento




















Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
6d. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "jon miller" atsfus@... atsfus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:58 am ((PST))

/On 11/7/2014 7:56 AM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] wrote://
/
/What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in
this regard?/
/
/
/What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?/
/
/
/What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise
as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and
brass? /
Denny,
(1) I have always used this criteria for tools. If it's you
business and/or profession use the best tools available. If it's for
home owner work use Harbor Freight. Model making is somewhere in the
middle. So if you do model making as a profession and/or a lot of it
for the hobby use very good tools (if they are in your income range).
Otherwise Amazon is your friend. Stuff from China is usually delivered
in about a week or so.

(2) No comment

(3) No comment

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS





Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
6e. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "Jack Burgess" jack@... yvrrus
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:22 am ((PST))

I look at it very differently. I enjoy using nice tools which will do exactly the job needed and are a pleasure to work with. You can build benchwork with a handsaw and screwdriver but your joints will most likely be less than desired although they might still get the job done. If you like to be proud of the work you do and enjoy pushing yourself to always do your best, whether at work or in a hobby, the cost of a chop saw and electric drill will pay for themselves to build that benchwork.



I enjoy putting together resin freight cars and scratchbuilding. The cost of the tools that I buy is thus offset by the fact that I don't buy RTR freight cars or structure kits.



When I give clinics on tools for model builders, I like to point out that our tools are not expensive at all compared to other hobbies. I have a drill press that I love which now costs upward of $600. But it does exactly what I want and I've been using it for nearly 40 years. If my hobby was cooking, I'd spend that much on a mixer!



Jack Burgess





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 8:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-making.








On 11/7/2014 7:56 AM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] wrote:

What choices are other listers -critical about their tools- making in this regard?



What sources exist for the really-small (2”) fine files?



What types, sizes, and cuts of files would listers currently advise as a basic set, taking into account working on resin, styrene, and brass?


Denny,
(1) I have always used this criteria for tools. If it's you business and/or profession use the best tools available. If it's for home owner work use Harbor Freight. Model making is somewhere in the middle. So if you do model making as a profession and/or a lot of it for the hobby use very good tools (if they are in your income range). Otherwise Amazon is your friend. Stuff from China is usually delivered in about a week or so.

(2) No comment

(3) No comment




--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS












Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
6f. Re: Swiss pattern & other fine files. Choosing the best for model-ma
Posted by: "O Fenton Wells" srrfan1401@... srrfan1401
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:28 am ((PST))

Good point Jack, let's not even go to the new set of Pings or the Scotty
Cameron putter!

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...




Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________
7. New photo collection going online at the Barriger Library
Posted by: borhsarchives@... nfryumbc
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:35 am ((PST))

The John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library is uploading a new collection of images to Flickr. The Robert G. and Hansell Lewis Collection. Some photos are identified, some are not. Many are steam era in the US, Canada and Mexico. Any help in identifying images would be very much appreciated.



barrigerlibrary http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary



http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary



barrigerlibrary http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary Established in 1984 as a special collection of the St. Louis Mercantile Library, the John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library stands today as one o...







View on www.flickr.com http://www.flickr.com/barrigerlibrary

Preview by Yahoo







Thanks again.



Take Care

-Nick Fry



Curator

John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library at UMSL









Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
8. Conversion kits for SP 40' B-50-27 box cars
Posted by: "Andy Carlson" midcentury@... midcentury@...
Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 9:04 am ((PST))



Hello,
I have been offering HO SP 12 panel 40' box cars until recently when two of the components became temporary unavailable. I am now prepared to offer another HO Southern Pacific 40' undec box car component kit with enhancements.



The SP B-50-27 was the last 6' door boxcar on the SP roster, and the first SP box car to feature the diagonal panel roof. This class also debuted the 3rd variant of improved Youngstown steel door, the 4/6/6 (the -25 and -26 cars used the 5/6/5 version). This door is made in gray Styrene by SouthWest Scale Models.

I have 6 of these kits. Components include a complete Intermountain undecorated gray'37 AAR box car kit #40799. The roof, ends, doors and ladders from this donor kit are not used and are supplemented with 1) an Intermountain 40' diagonal panel roof; 2) a pair of Intermountain "thin"R+3/4 improved dreadnaught ends (accurately having no poling pockets); 3) a pair of Southwest Scale Models 4/6/6 IY doors; 4) two sprues of 8-rung ladders which are supplied to replace the kit's wrong 7-rung ladders (Each sprue contains 2 8-rung ladders, so two sprues are included to get the necessary four ladders). No paint, decals, couplers, trucks or metal running boards included. I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee I also accept PayPal.


I am selling these 2 enhanced kits for $28/each, 1st class air mail shipping included. If interested, please contact me OFF-LIST at <midcentury@...>

Thanks, -Andy Carlson



Messages in this topic (1)





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Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Brad Andonian
 

I don't have a dog is this fight.... But I have been painting a lot of models with Tru color paint this past year. I like the shades and while subtle I do see variances

I am too young to have seen actual cars from the steam era so I can't argue shades. However I am pleased with the product and colors offered

Brad Andonian
Seattle






At Nov 8, 2014, 5:33:58 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]<'STMFC@...'> wrote:










Ross Dando wrote:




















Back in the late '90's I worked with DuPont on colors for a project at my company.. There was a DuPont guy who had a list of the various DuPont lines and the corresponding color mixes to get each product line to match. Yeah, I need to go digging and find the paper and scan it for everyone to see. Point being, there are many colors that the railroads used which were the same. Also, the paint was many times was mixed by a local paint dealer so if may not exactly match the original color from the formula. I was amazed to see the mix code for RI, ATSF, and SP red fron the '40's was the same.


Yes, that red is called Socony Red, originally used by Standard Oil.
There are two different issues being raised here: was every railroad's color set unique (pretty clearly not), and are paint companies like Tru-Color really matching to prototype chips, whether or not the color(s) may be the same as some other railroad. I believe the latter to be "yes," whether or not you personally find their colors "too dark" or "too green" or whatever. We all have to find a set of colors that look "right" to us on our layouts (or display cases), and the prototype color is only one way to start. Obviously YMMV.


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
Publishers of books on railroad history
















Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

Tony Thompson
 

Ross Dando wrote:

 

Back in the late '90's I worked with DuPont on colors for a project at my company.. There was a DuPont guy who had a list of the various DuPont lines and the corresponding color mixes to get each product line to match. Yeah, I need to go digging and find the paper and scan it for everyone to see. Point being, there are many colors that the railroads used which were the same. Also, the paint was many times was mixed by a local paint dealer so if may not exactly match the original color from the formula.  I was amazed to see the mix code for RI, ATSF, and SP red fron the '40's was the same. 


     Yes, that red is called Socony Red, originally used by Standard Oil.
     There are two different issues being raised here: was every railroad's color set unique (pretty clearly not), and are paint companies like Tru-Color really matching to prototype chips, whether or not the color(s) may be the same as some other railroad. I believe the latter to be "yes," whether or not you personally find their colors "too dark" or "too green" or whatever. We all have to find a set of colors that look "right" to us on our layouts (or display cases), and the prototype color is only one way to start. Obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Great Northern Omaha Orange

twinstarcars
 

Back in the late '90's I worked with DuPont on colors for a project at my company.. There was a DuPont guy who had a list of the various DuPont lines and the corresponding color mixes to get each product line to match. Yeah, I need to go digging and find the paper and scan it for everyone to see. Point being, there are many colors that the railroads used which were the same. Also, the paint was many times was mixed by a local paint dealer so if may not exactly match the original color from the formula.  I was amazed to see the mix code for RI, ATSF, and SP red fron the '40's was the same. 
Let the nay sayers  and fights begin. 

Ross Dando

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