Date   

Re: Central Valley Trucks

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Well...that attachment was stripped by Yahoo and isn't available even on the Yahoo website for our group. Fortunately, I cc'd Bill directly but if anyone else is interested, let me know.

Jack Burgess


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Mikebrock
 

Bruce Smith says:

"First, have a home brew."

My sentiments exactly.

"Second, don't worry!"

More good advice.

Armand says: "Bruce,We strive to standardize car weight and couplers yet with the variety of wheel sets available do we attempt to standardize?. "

Huh? Car weight? I couldn't care less what a car weighs. Yes, I know the NMRA has its "standard" and that's fine with me. I recall building a Westerfield GN SS 50 ft auto car and proudly painted and decaled it. Then I proudly noticed that I had not added any weight to its interior. Hmmm. OK, following Richard's view that the bottom should only be viewed from trackside [ what?, me have a derailment? ] I merely inserted flexible lead weights inside the 2 center sills. Voila! And, I might note that several "bo's" thanked me for leaving all that open space in the car's interior.

Standardize couplers? Who says? I have Kadee 5's and Kadee 58's on various cars. I have no idea which. I do put 58's on new stuff. You mean I should retrofit? Are you serious?

I will also admit that I filed a flat spot on a car's wheel. Sounds pretty good.

Mike Brock...Bruce, don't forget the home brew next Jan.










Re: Central Valley Trucks

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Bill...

Attached is a photo of a Central Valley arch bar truck on a YV stock car I built about 30 years ago. In those days, the only 5' arch bar trucks available (as I recall) were the Central Valley ones. The zamak castings were good for their day but crude by today's standards, especially the injected plastic trucks. Like Kadee trucks, they had real springs which some thought would make the trucks stay on the rails better since they were "equalized". But the springs, while soft, used thicker wire than today's Kadee and the appearance was pretty good.

When Central Valley stopped making these trucks, I tried to get a stockpile of them (before the Internet, that was harder to do) since I needed a lot of them for YV freight cars that I wanted to build. Some of those zamak castings started to deteriorate over the years but I tossed them all out after TMW released their 5' arch bar truck and I bought about three dozen of them.

Jack Burgess



I came into the hobby after the Central Valley Truck production ended and have never seen one that I know of. I am wondering if someone could post a photo of an example and describe why they were so highly regarded and sought after?
Bill Welch


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Aley, Jeff A
 

Denny’s efforts to objectively measure and optimize rollability are well-documented.  I will say that the RESULT of such tuning is visible on his layout.  It includes some grades, and many trains are pulled by steam locomotives.  Many of us have steamers that do not pull as well as we may desire; the free-rolling trucks make it possible to pull a train of a “handsome” length up the grade on his model railroad.  I have not encountered any issues with his cars when doing yard switching; industrial switching areas are still under construction.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 5:28 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 

 



Bruce,We strive to standardize car weight and couplers yet with the variety of wheel sets available do we attempt to standardize?.My motive power is rated for tonnage,but if I want to have realistic sized trains there should be a degree of uniformity in rolling performance.Admittedly level track is desirable-Armand Premo-- Original Message -----

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:07 PM

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 

 

Armand,

 

First, have a home brew.  Second, don't worry!  Seriously though, I can understand getting close, although again, I wouldn't worry about them all being the same.  And a note... there is an argument that maximal roll might not be desirable for several reasons.  If for example, I want to HAVE to use helpers and my locos are too powerful, a little rolling resistance might be desirable.  Likewise if my yards/sidings are not perfectly level.

 

I select wheel sets that spin freely in the truck, but the ends do not wobbly.  I sometimes ream the bearing holes to improve this and rarely, add graphite to the bearing.  It usually takes me about 2 minutes per car to get it where I want it, rolling wise.

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 6:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels



Which brings up another issue.......................rolling quality.I would like to hear what members of this list do in the attempt to standardize the  rolling quality of their freight car fleet .Armand Premo

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Re: Rosters

prr282
 


correction John-----

 

It's Pittsburg (no H) & Shawmut (1 T)

 

Paul B.


Re: SP&S football herald

railsnw@...
 

Are you talking about the herald with "SPOKANE, PORTLAND & SEATTLE RAILWAY" in it? The first football shaped herald used on box cars was back in the early teens but the wording inside was "NORTH BANK ROAD". Would have been the double sheathed 2000 or 3000 series.


Richard Wilkens


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Armand Premo
 


Bruce,We strive to standardize car weight and couplers yet with the variety of wheel sets available do we attempt to standardize?.My motive power is rated for tonnage,but if I want to have realistic sized trains there should be a degree of uniformity in rolling performance.Admittedly level track is desirable-Armand Premo-- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 

Armand,

First, have a home brew.  Second, don't worry!  Seriously though, I can understand getting close, although again, I wouldn't worry about them all being the same.  And a note... there is an argument that maximal roll might not be desirable for several reasons.  If for example, I want to HAVE to use helpers and my locos are too powerful, a little rolling resistance might be desirable.  Likewise if my yards/sidings are not perfectly level.

I select wheel sets that spin freely in the truck, but the ends do not wobbly.  I sometimes ream the bearing holes to improve this and rarely, add graphite to the bearing.  It usually takes me about 2 minutes per car to get it where I want it, rolling wise.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 6:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels



Which brings up another issue.......................rolling quality.I would like to hear what members of this list do in the attempt to standardize the  rolling quality of their freight car fleet .Armand Premo

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Re: SP&S football herald

tomedill@frontier.com
 

Thank you Ed and Garth for the info, that is what I was looking for, the 13000 series when new in 1949. Was hoping it was a bit earlier! Tom Dill


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Bruce Smith
 

Armand,

First, have a home brew.  Second, don't worry!  Seriously though, I can understand getting close, although again, I wouldn't worry about them all being the same.  And a note... there is an argument that maximal roll might not be desirable for several reasons.  If for example, I want to HAVE to use helpers and my locos are too powerful, a little rolling resistance might be desirable.  Likewise if my yards/sidings are not perfectly level.

I select wheel sets that spin freely in the truck, but the ends do not wobbly.  I sometimes ream the bearing holes to improve this and rarely, add graphite to the bearing.  It usually takes me about 2 minutes per car to get it where I want it, rolling wise.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 6:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels



Which brings up another issue.......................rolling quality.I would like to hear what members of this list do in the attempt to standardize the  rolling quality of their freight car fleet .Armand Premo


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Armand Premo
 


Which brings up another issue.......................rolling quality.I would like to hear what members of this list do in the attempt to standardize the  rolling quality of their freight car fleet .Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 


Andy Carlson writes regarding Denny Anspach's comments about semi scale
wheels and possible truck applications:

"I don't understand your point, as you have shared this many times over the
years."

Well, I think Denny was pointing out the various applications of semi scale
wheels to a variety of different manufacturer's trucks. Being a modeler of
a few more yrs than some perhaps and, therefore, the owner of a variety of
different trucks, I found it quite useful. Some of this is because I haven't
done enough research into the various wheel axle lengths of available wheels
and truck dimensions.

"Tahoe trucks run very well, perhaps the best in the whole industry-EVER."

I don't disagree with that...given what I have heard. However, [ don't tell
anyone ] I don't have any. I've been spending too much time making sure DCC
functions during my Jan op session during Prototype Rails and haven't
pursued Tahoe trucks. Yes, I have been sleeping with the NCE manual.
However, we definitely need a vendor at Prototype Rails selling Tahoe trucks
[ hint ].

"I think over analyzing something that performs already to peak
satisfaction isn't accomplishing much."

Well, it is if you put the wrong wheel in the wrong truck. Note, that Denny
did not refer to Tahoe trucks.
Also, note the STMFC rule: "Members are permitted to criticize or praise
manufacturer's products free from criticism from other members." And,
"Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives."

" There are many areas left to joust over. All Tahoe trucks run well within
the .006" range axle lengths you have noted."

Good. Now all I have to do is find some Tahoe's.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

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Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Mikebrock
 

Andy Carlson writes regarding Denny Anspach's comments about semi scale wheels and possible truck applications:


"I don't understand your point, as you have shared this many times over the years."

Well, I think Denny was pointing out the various applications of semi scale wheels to a variety of different manufacturer's trucks. Being a modeler of a few more yrs than some perhaps and, therefore, the owner of a variety of different trucks, I found it quite useful. Some of this is because I haven't done enough research into the various wheel axle lengths of available wheels and truck dimensions.

"Tahoe trucks run very well, perhaps the best in the whole industry-EVER."

I don't disagree with that...given what I have heard. However, [ don't tell anyone ] I don't have any. I've been spending too much time making sure DCC functions during my Jan op session during Prototype Rails and haven't pursued Tahoe trucks. Yes, I have been sleeping with the NCE manual. However, we definitely need a vendor at Prototype Rails selling Tahoe trucks [ hint ].

"I think over analyzing something that performs already to peak satisfaction isn't accomplishing much."

Well, it is if you put the wrong wheel in the wrong truck. Note, that Denny did not refer to Tahoe trucks.
Also, note the STMFC rule: "Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free from criticism from other members." And, "Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or my representatives."

" There are many areas left to joust over. All Tahoe trucks run well within the .006" range axle lengths you have noted."

Good. Now all I have to do is find some Tahoe's.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Central Valley Trucks

Mikebrock
 

Bill Welsh writes:


"I came into the hobby after the Central Valley Truck production ended and have never seen one that I know of. I am wondering if someone could post a photo of an example and describe why they were so highly regarded and sought after?"

What Central Valley truck do you refer to? Passenger or frt? I might point out that "passenger" car trucks were also found on head end equipment which the Fuehrer [ uh...me ] has ruled to be frt cars and within scope of the STMFC.

Mike Brock


Re: RIVITS

Dennis Storzek
 

Yes, Scale Hardware makes nice O scale rivets, Gene Deimling used some for the center seams on 1/4" scale boxcar end patterns and they looked great, but with 1-3/8" diameter heads in HO scale, they are bridge rivets.

The Tichy rivets are even larger, made for 1:25 scale modeling.

Archer is really the only game in town for HO.

Dennis Storzek


Central Valley Trucks

Bill Welch
 

I came into the hobby after the Central Valley Truck production ended and have never seen one that I know of. I am wondering if someone could post a photo of an example and describe why they were so highly regarded and sought after?


Bill Welch 


Re: SP&S football herald

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tom,

I don't know when the herald first appeared on SP&S rolling stock, but all four classes of their 40' steel boxcars had this lettering when new, (11000, 12000, 12500, and 13000 series) according to Ed Austin's article in the December 1997 MM. There was also a similar article in the September 1997 MM. Some of the surviving wood-sheathed USRA cars also had this scheme, and one is shown in John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, THE SERIES volume 1 on page 64.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/8/14 9:52 AM, Tom Dill tomedill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Can anyone tell me when the SP&S football herald was first used on boxcars and what series? thanks, Tom Dill



Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Aley, Jeff A
 

Andy,

 

               I suspect that Denny’s point is that those who wish to change to a different type of wheelset (e.g. someone mentioned using Rapido wheelsets) should be forearmed with knowledge, and not think that “all wheelsets are equal”.  It would be a shame if someone maligned the fine Tahoe trucks if they put in poorly-fitting wheelsets, and ignorantly blamed the trucks!

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 10:12 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 

 

I don't understand your point, as you have shared this many times over the years. Tahoe trucks run very well, perhaps the best in the whole industry-EVER. I think over analyzing something that performs already to peak satisfaction  isn't accomplishing much. There are many areas left to joust over. All Tahoe trucks run well within the .006" range axle lengths you have noted.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 


From: "Denny Anspach danspachmd@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: Steam Era Freight Car List <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:57 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 

 

A gentle reminder: semi-scale wheel sets are definitely not  all alike, and in this regard, there is no such thing as *one size fits all!".  Although I have yet to come across any of the current semi-scale wheels that are not acceptable either with reference to appearance or contour, the shape of the ends (broad conical, or pin point), the end material (metal, or plastic) and lengths of the axles on which the wheels are mounted  can and will make a world of  difference as to how in real life they will function in any given truck application. 

 

The popular pin point IM sets had axles measuring 1.012-15" for years until without notice they changed manufacturers, and the axles changed significantly to 1.007-1.012"-  a significant difference. 

 

The Branchline semiscale pin point wheelsets (no longer available, I believe) measured 1.018"-1.020".  

 

The fine Kadee wheels measure a reliable 1.015", but have have relatively borad Delrin ends.

 

 The NWSL wheel sets have relatively broad ends. 

 

The pinpoint Reboxx wheels have a huge range of axle lengths (also available double insulated- a real boon for installation in metal trucks).

 

The combination of semiscale wheels and maximum (maximum!) real time rollability have been my gold standard benchmark for almost 12 years, and I feel that my efforts in this regard have been repaid many times over when everyday, I can admire long  strings of fine freight cars rolling effortlessly and quietly through the environs of my layout.  A lot of this has been enabled by tailoring each truck, or type of truck to maximum rollability, and this has often required wheels sets of varied axle lengths, or axles of different types. My usual standard  wheelset is Reboxx, and I keep a full supply.  Some recent 3-axle metal truck conversions worked best with an wheel sets inboard, and a Branchline set in the middle (this combination alone almost tripled the trucks tested rollability).  Other metal trucks do best with the Kadee wheels (the Delrin./metal combination can be especially good).  The Central Valley trucks work best with the pin point axles inasmuch as the angle of the conical bearing holes is narrower than the nominal NMRA angle commonly inhabiting most other trucks.

 

More than you really wanted to know this Monday morning....

 

Denny 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

Denny S. Anspach, MD

Sacramento, CA

 

 


Re: RIVITS

 

And, of course, there are the Archer decals.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Monday, September 8, 2014 at 2:50 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RIVITS







Bill,
Tichy has some great ones in styrene.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 9/8/2014 3:47:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:




I am working on a reincarnation of a Quality Craft composite NIckel Plate
hopper which was initially completed many years ago. I have already
received some great help from members on this list. I have been using
brass rivits in several areas of this car. They are available in many sizes
from a company called Scale Hardware. While tedious to apply they are
as good if not better than rivets made on my NWSL riveter. They are a
great compliment to the Steps that are being produced by Pierre Oliver.
While I would not do a whole tender they are great for rivets that
manufacturers
have overlooked on some of thier models.

Bill Pardie


Re: RIVITS

Charles Hladik
 

Bill,
    Tichy has some great ones in styrene.
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 9/8/2014 3:47:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 


I am working on a reincarnation of a Quality Craft composite NIckel Plate
hopper which was initially completed many years ago. I have already
received some great help from members on this list. I have been using
brass rivits in several areas of this car. They are available in many sizes
from a company called Scale Hardware. While tedious to apply they are
as good if not better than rivets made on my NWSL riveter. They are a
great compliment to the Steps that are being produced by Pierre Oliver.
While I would not do a whole tender they are great for rivets that manufacturers
have overlooked on some of thier models.

Bill Pardie


RIVITS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I am working on a reincarnation of a Quality Craft composite NIckel Plate
hopper which was initially completed many years ago. I have already
received some great help from members on this list. I have been using
brass rivits in several areas of this car. They are available in many sizes
from a company called Scale Hardware. While tedious to apply they are
as good if not better than rivets made on my NWSL riveter. They are a
great compliment to the Steps that are being produced by Pierre Oliver.
While I would not do a whole tender they are great for rivets that manufacturers
have overlooked on some of thier models.

Bill Pardie


Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

Andy Carlson
 

I don't understand your point, as you have shared this many times over the years. Tahoe trucks run very well, perhaps the best in the whole industry-EVER. I think over analyzing something that performs already to peak satisfaction  isn't accomplishing much. There are many areas left to joust over. All Tahoe trucks run well within the .006" range axle lengths you have noted.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Denny Anspach danspachmd@... [STMFC]"
To: Steam Era Freight Car List
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 9:57 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tahoe trucks w/ semiscale wheels

 
A gentle reminder: semi-scale wheel sets are definitely not  all alike, and in this regard, there is no such thing as *one size fits all!".  Although I have yet to come across any of the current semi-scale wheels that are not acceptable either with reference to appearance or contour, the shape of the ends (broad conical, or pin point), the end material (metal, or plastic) and lengths of the axles on which the wheels are mounted  can and will make a world of  difference as to how in real life they will function in any given truck application. 

The popular pin point IM sets had axles measuring 1.012-15" for years until without notice they changed manufacturers, and the axles changed significantly to 1.007-1.012"-  a significant difference. 

The Branchline semiscale pin point wheelsets (no longer available, I believe) measured 1.018"-1.020".  

The fine Kadee wheels measure a reliable 1.015", but have have relatively borad Delrin ends.

 The NWSL wheel sets have relatively broad ends. 

The pinpoint Reboxx wheels have a huge range of axle lengths (also available double insulated- a real boon for installation in metal trucks).

The combination of semiscale wheels and maximum (maximum!) real time rollability have been my gold standard benchmark for almost 12 years, and I feel that my efforts in this regard have been repaid many times over when everyday, I can admire long  strings of fine freight cars rolling effortlessly and quietly through the environs of my layout.  A lot of this has been enabled by tailoring each truck, or type of truck to maximum rollability, and this has often required wheels sets of varied axle lengths, or axles of different types. My usual standard  wheelset is Reboxx, and I keep a full supply.  Some recent 3-axle metal truck conversions worked best with an wheel sets inboard, and a Branchline set in the middle (this combination alone almost tripled the trucks tested rollability).  Other metal trucks do best with the Kadee wheels (the Delrin./metal combination can be especially good).  The Central Valley trucks work best with the pin point axles inasmuch as the angle of the conical bearing holes is narrower than the nominal NMRA angle commonly inhabiting most other trucks.

More than you really wanted to know this Monday morning....

Denny 



 

 



   
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA



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