Date   

Re: Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

Pierre Oliver
 

Tim,
From where I sit, there are plenty of prototype cars that have yet to be accurately modeled in HO scale.
The AC&F built postwar boxcars with AC&F proprietary parts are but one example.
If your assertion were true, I and a few other resin manufacturers, will be in a world of hurt. :-)
Are you leaving out the Sunshine model when you mention the UTLX  X-3? Impossible to get right now, but is there a demand for this kit to be rerun? Or does a RTR version the only one that counts now?
Ebay.
I would consider it perilous to do any kind of accurate assessment on the state of the hobby from EBay sales. Lots of toys listed and some very unrealistic price expectations. IMHO
From where I sit, it's a great time to be a manufacturer. The processes for reproduction have never been better, cheaper and numerous.    
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 11/26/2014 1:15 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

 


    >>> ... what cars a manufacturer has the best chance of selling.

 > Santa Fe has a couple of niche cars that might sell as well

Methinks steam/transition era modelers are running out of prototypes that were in
wide deployment, that have not yet been produced in HO scale! Is that an accurate
statement?

We're definitely missing one very important "niche" car -- the UTLX X-3 tank cars! IMO that is.

Post-1960 modelers on the other hand can cite dozens of cars for which there are either
only very poor models, or no models at all. Yet manufacturers keep cranking out oddball
"signature" cars in plastic that really confounds me, unless what sells is cars that are so
obviously different than other cars that the non-RPM buyers will snap them up just to jazz
up their freight trains. Sheer speculation on my part.

The other day I made an overview examination of Ebay HO auctions -- Some notes:

1. The number of Ebay HO auctions has tripled (over 50,000 currently) from 5-6 years ago.
    For many years (about 10) the number was steadily at 18,000-20,000. And if you look at
    the "Buy It Now" stuff (I generally don't bother) the number is astounding -- 195,000+

2. Thousands of freight car auctions receive no bids at all. It's especially easy to find unsold
    auctions of "custom decorated" cars from Bev Bel and many other decorators. Evidently
    not many people are interested in this stuff anymore. Has everyone gone over to the RPM side?
    Or is everyone just broke or doesn't need any more "stuff"?

3. Not all brass sells well, but some brass holds up very well. But in general prices are down 20-30%
    compared to 10 years ago, with some exceptions: Overald brass truss bridges sell for a premium.
    I saw an Overland UP "coal turbine" that sold for $5,000! Well painted, older high quality brass freight
    cars sell at very good (higher than MSRP) prices -- regardless of the accuracy of the paint jobs.
    Brass passenger cars of all brands except W&R have been murdered by the relentless onslaught of
    Walthers cars. (Walthers hasn't done any NP trains yet.) I'm watching a Wasatch passenger car
    auction that is at $50 now -- less than the price of a Walthers plastic model.

4. Slides and negatives (especially freight cars!) seem to sell for big money if they are of high quality
    and rare (hard to find). I don't know WHY since no one is painting or decaling any more! :-)

I sure wouldn't want to be in the HO scale freight car business now. I really appreciate Tangent and
the other manufacturers who continue to bring out excellent new products. And Microscale has been
continuing to crank out new sets, bless them.

Tim O'Connor



Re: Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

Armand Premo
 

    Might as well chime in here.I would like to see more quad and trple hoppers as well as an ERDX reefer.Some of the lesser roads have not been touched either.Thanks to TLT,many of the missing and correctly executed Canadian cars.are now available.They have set a new standard for accuracy.I also wish that Kadee would do the Pullman Standard gon.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

 


    >>> ... what cars a manufacturer has the best chance of selling.

 > Santa Fe has a couple of niche cars that might sell as well

Methinks steam/transition era modelers are running out of prototypes that were in
wide deployment, that have not yet been produced in HO scale! Is that an accurate
statement?

We're definitely missing one very important "niche" car -- the UTLX X-3 tank cars! IMO that is.

Post-1960 modelers on the other hand can cite dozens of cars for which there are either
only very poor models, or no models at all. Yet manufacturers keep cranking out oddball
"signature" cars in plastic that really confounds me, unless what sells is cars that are so
obviously different than other cars that the non-RPM buyers will snap them up just to jazz
up their freight trains. Sheer speculation on my part.

The other day I made an overview examination of Ebay HO auctions -- Some notes:

1. The number of Ebay HO auctions has tripled (over 50,000 currently) from 5-6 years ago.
    For many years (about 10) the number was steadily at 18,000-20,000. And if you look at
    the "Buy It Now" stuff (I generally don't bother) the number is astounding -- 195,000+

2. Thousands of freight car auctions receive no bids at all. It's especially easy to find unsold
    auctions of "custom decorated" cars from Bev Bel and many other decorators. Evidently
    not many people are interested in this stuff anymore. Has everyone gone over to the RPM side?
    Or is everyone just broke or doesn't need any more "stuff"?

3. Not all brass sells well, but some brass holds up very well. But in general prices are down 20-30%
    compared to 10 years ago, with some exceptions: Overald brass truss bridges sell for a premium.
    I saw an Overland UP "coal turbine" that sold for $5,000! Well painted, older high quality brass freight
    cars sell at very good (higher than MSRP) prices -- regardless of the accuracy of the paint jobs.
    Brass passenger cars of all brands except W&R have been murdered by the relentless onslaught of
    Walthers cars. (Walthers hasn't done any NP trains yet.) I'm watching a Wasatch passenger car
    auction that is at $50 now -- less than the price of a Walthers plastic model.

4. Slides and negatives (especially freight cars!) seem to sell for big money if they are of high quality
    and rare (hard to find). I don't know WHY since no one is painting or decaling any more! :-)

I sure wouldn't want to be in the HO scale freight car business now. I really appreciate Tangent and
the other manufacturers who continue to bring out excellent new products. And Microscale has been
continuing to crank out new sets, bless them.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Sergent Couplers on new Tangent Chemical Tank Car

Tony Thompson
 

      Just one small nit about the subject line: there is no such thing as a "chemical tank car." Chemicals could be and were carried in every type of tank car in existence, from plain-Jane ICC 103 to all kinds of high-pressure (ICC 105) cars. Modelers have been herded by the Athearn designation of their high-pressure type car as a "chemical tank car," though as I say the term is really meaningless. Please, let's avoid tagging any tank car with a dome platform as a "chemical" car! Just ain't so.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

Tim O'Connor
 


    >>> ... what cars a manufacturer has the best chance of selling.

 > Santa Fe has a couple of niche cars that might sell as well

Methinks steam/transition era modelers are running out of prototypes that were in
wide deployment, that have not yet been produced in HO scale! Is that an accurate
statement?

We're definitely missing one very important "niche" car -- the UTLX X-3 tank cars! IMO that is.

Post-1960 modelers on the other hand can cite dozens of cars for which there are either
only very poor models, or no models at all. Yet manufacturers keep cranking out oddball
"signature" cars in plastic that really confounds me, unless what sells is cars that are so
obviously different than other cars that the non-RPM buyers will snap them up just to jazz
up their freight trains. Sheer speculation on my part.

The other day I made an overview examination of Ebay HO auctions -- Some notes:

1. The number of Ebay HO auctions has tripled (over 50,000 currently) from 5-6 years ago.
    For many years (about 10) the number was steadily at 18,000-20,000. And if you look at
    the "Buy It Now" stuff (I generally don't bother) the number is astounding -- 195,000+

2. Thousands of freight car auctions receive no bids at all. It's especially easy to find unsold
    auctions of "custom decorated" cars from Bev Bel and many other decorators. Evidently
    not many people are interested in this stuff anymore. Has everyone gone over to the RPM side?
    Or is everyone just broke or doesn't need any more "stuff"?

3. Not all brass sells well, but some brass holds up very well. But in general prices are down 20-30%
    compared to 10 years ago, with some exceptions: Overald brass truss bridges sell for a premium.
    I saw an Overland UP "coal turbine" that sold for $5,000! Well painted, older high quality brass freight
    cars sell at very good (higher than MSRP) prices -- regardless of the accuracy of the paint jobs.
    Brass passenger cars of all brands except W&R have been murdered by the relentless onslaught of
    Walthers cars. (Walthers hasn't done any NP trains yet.) I'm watching a Wasatch passenger car
    auction that is at $50 now -- less than the price of a Walthers plastic model.

4. Slides and negatives (especially freight cars!) seem to sell for big money if they are of high quality
    and rare (hard to find). I don't know WHY since no one is painting or decaling any more! :-)

I sure wouldn't want to be in the HO scale freight car business now. I really appreciate Tangent and
the other manufacturers who continue to bring out excellent new products. And Microscale has been
continuing to crank out new sets, bless them.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Sergent Couplers on new Tangent Chemical Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Ross Dando wrote

>> I wanted to sound off on the challenge of putting Sergent couplers on
>> the AWESOME new Tangent cars ... [snip] ...

The thought occurred to me as soon as I saw this car that even removing the
trucks was going to be a challenge!! I think I will have to craft a "saddle"
jig that will safely hold the car upside down, to avoid any damage to the
delicate top platform.

Tim O'Connor


Re: SP F-70-7 Flat with 22" PMT Trailers

Tim O'Connor
 

Arved

Epoxy works.

The 1.020 wheelsets will work fine, but I find they roll just a little
bit further with 1.015 wheelsets -- possibly due to my test trackwork which
isn't the greatest.

Tim

So, for clarification - the F-70-7 flats come with the proper trucks, just that their design (sideframe pivots at the bolster) results in less than stellar tracking.

So while I have your attention on this matter, what are the appropriate Reboxx wheels for this truck?

Arved Grass


Transition gondola

csxt5555
 

Looking for info/pictures of 53 1/2' 14rib gondolas. Roads that got them first?? I know they where more a 60's car but I gotta mix and match in 1/8th scale.

Kevin Sprayberry


Re: Question On Milwaukee Boxcars Second Attempt

Allan Smith
 

Railway Prototype Cyc Vol 13 has some good photos of the 50' ribside cars. None really show a good view of the underside brake rigging but in several views it looks like the same pattern was used as on the 40' cars. On pages 48-51 you can see the brake components grouped together similar to the 40' cars.

After looking at those photos that is how I placed the brake components on  my cars.

Al Smith
Sonora


Re: North American Railcar air hoses?

destorzek@...
 

What happened to the angle cocks? That's like no brake hose arrangement I've ever seen.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Prototype Fidelity - Part 2

Brian Termunde
 

Hey Tim,
You should have these folks get a hold of the Utah State Government, Utah's Dept. of Alcohol and Beverage Control, and a certain 'other' entity that runs things here, they to a 'great' job of restricting and controlling booze, so a simple thing like stamping out foobies and all non-prototypical freight cars should be a snap for them! : <

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, UT
 
"My Train of Thought left the station without me!"

P.S. I do NOT have a drinking problem, I enforce strict limits on myself, I only drink on the days that end in 'Y', absolutely none of the others, ever! ; )




1a. Re: Prototype Fidelity - Part 2
    Posted by: "Tim O&#39;Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250
    Date: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:38 pm ((PST))


This isn't new. Why, even as we speak, there are squads of Prototype Police scouring
the countryside to confiscate and destroy inaccurate models of freight cars to ensure
that not even a trace of them ends up in a landfill, much less be allowed to operate
on a layout (*shudder*) in full view of an unsuspecting and gullible public.

Tim "Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Vigilance!" O'Connor


-


Re: Prototype Fidelity - Part 2

asychis@...
 

"But...there is a problem. As a high proportion of modelers are not interested in "nit picking" or "rivet counting", they can, and do, accept models that are less than perfect reproductions of their prototypes. So, if someone were to submit an article on a Southern Railway box car that was truly a beautiful model but they kit bashed a car with an somewhat incorrect end, or the correct trucks were simply not available, should the article be published or excluded because it was not completely accurate? Bad data published in a modeling article can live for years. Years ago, Model Railroader ran two articles in the same "Paint Shop" that said one of the colors on both Southern and Seaboard Air Line diesels was white. That was an absolutely incorrect statement, SR was imitation aluminum and SAL was a very light green, but it lives on with people citing that article as the correct prototype colors to this day.


So....does a HS only print "perfect" modeling articles and alienate modelers by appearing to exclude their interests and work or should inaccurate article be published with some kind of "good enough" logic? Should the question be dodged (basically what SRHA has been doing) by not running modeling articles at all? People that read the commercial modeling magazines probably recognize that the models it discusses are not always perfect. Should modeling articles be left to them?"
 
As long as the articles are accurate, pointing out where details are not as they are on the prototype, I see no problem with this.  It is a matter of truth and trust. It is bad data only if it is not well described.  I laugh about the Southern ad Seaboard "white."  Many years ago RMC had a small article on the MoPac and mentioned that they had blue cabooses.  That is still an "urban legend" today. 
 
Jerry Michels


Re: {Disarmed} North American Railcar air hoses?

Steve SANDIFER
 

Pelle in MR uses these hoses and Sargent couplers for prototypical appearance.



__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 1:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [STMFC] North American Railcar air hoses?





There have been a couple of threads on the MRH forums about them:



http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/17670



http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/11272



Seems like the only real complaint I've seen is that the magnets are strong enough they might not disconnect when you uncouple the cars - resulting in a car being dragged by it's air hose.







On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:35 AM, spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Does anyone have experience with these flexible, magnetic air hoses?

PWRS Pacific Western Rail Systems PWRS <http://www.pacific-western-rail.com/main.php>



<http://www.pacific-western-rail.com/main.php> Image removed by sender. image

<http://www.pacific-western-rail.com/main.php> PWRS Pacific Western Rail Systems PWRS

Welcome to our new website!!!! We appreciate the patience of all of our N scale and HO scale customers in Canada, the United States, and overseas, and w...




<http://www.pacific-western-rail.com/main.php> View on www.pacific-wester...

Preview by Yahoo






Seems like a trick option for those inclined to get rid of the hooks on their Kadees (or those migrating to Sergent). Thoughts?

(apologies in advance for redundancy, but I could not find anything in past Conversations).

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA




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This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is
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Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed


Question On Milwaukee Boxcars Second Attempt

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Sorry for the deletion on my first post.
The question was on the location of the brake components on the underbody of the Milwaukee rib side boxcars.  On the 40' cars the three members were on the same side og the center sill.  Did this practice also apply to the 50' cars?

Again my apologies.

Bill Pardie
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "RUTLANDRS@... [STMFC]"
Date:11/25/2014 09:56 (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question On Miwaukee Rib Side Boxcars

 

Bill,
 
    Not sure if this will help, but...........try
 
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 11/25/2014 2:12:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 


I learned at a seminar not too long ago that the brake components
on the Miwaukee rib sideWas this also true for the 50' ribside cars
and does anyone possible have a diagram of the proper placement?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie


Re: Question On Miwaukee Rib Side Boxcars

Charles Hladik
 

Bill,
 
    Not sure if this will help, but...........try
 
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 11/25/2014 2:12:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 


I learned at a seminar not too long ago that the brake components
on the Miwaukee rib sideWas this also true for the 50' ribside cars
and does anyone possible have a diagram of the proper placement?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie


Paging Mike Palmieri

ALLEN STANLEY
 

Hi Mike,


Could you please contact me off list at (raildata at yahoo.com)


Thank You!


Allen Stanley


Question On Miwaukee Rib Side Boxcars

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I learned at a seminar not too long ago that the brake components
on the Miwaukee rib sideWas this also true for the 50' ribside cars
and does anyone possible have a diagram of the proper placement?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie


Re: {Disarmed} North American Railcar air hoses?

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

There have been a couple of threads on the MRH forums about them: 



Seems like the only real complaint I've seen is that the magnets are strong enough they might not disconnect when you uncouple the cars - resulting in a car being dragged by it's air hose. 



On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:35 AM, spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Does anyone have experience with these flexible, magnetic air hoses?

PWRS Pacific Western Rail Systems PWRS

PWRS Pacific Western Rail Systems PWRS
   Welcome to our new website!!!!   We appreciate the patience of all of our N scale and HO scale customers in Canada, the United States, and overseas, and w...
Preview by Yahoo

 

Seems like a trick option for those inclined to get rid of the hooks on their Kadees (or those migrating to Sergent).  Thoughts?

(apologies in advance for redundancy, but I could not find anything in past Conversations).

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed


North American Railcar air hoses?

Dave Parker
 

Does anyone have experience with these flexible, magnetic air hoses?

PWRS Pacific Western Rail Systems PWRS

 

Seems like a trick option for those inclined to get rid of the hooks on their Kadees (or those migrating to Sergent).  Thoughts?

(apologies in advance for redundancy, but I could not find anything in past Conversations).

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



Sale of some of Richard Hendrickson's brass frieght cars

Tony Thompson
 

Just a reminder, bids for the sale of part of Richard Hendrickson's HO scale brass freight cars are due at noon today.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

markstation01 <markstation01@...>
 

And I think a MDT milk flat with trailers would sell but I don't expect a RTR model anytime soon


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "jon miller atsfus@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date:11/25/2014 12:56 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Up dating a roster was: Prototype fidelity

 

On 11/25/2014 8:47 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] wrote:
This brings me back to what cars a manufacturer has the best chance of selling. {hand me my crystal ball please} I feel the Milwaukee Ribside box car is one car that would sell on and on, maybe?

    Santa Fe has a couple of niche cars that might sell as well as or better than the Milwaukee.  I've always wanted a Tk-L tank with the bottom done correctly.  There are boxcars that were seen over the entire country and on all RR's.  Again maybe?

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

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