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Re: 1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

Bill Welch
 

I bet Tricia at Sunshine might be a source.

Bill Welch
Re: 1919 - Miami Valley Conservancy Construction Photos

cinderandeight@...
 

Ben,
    I am "almost" convinced you are right on the MCRR  11500-11999 series.  Some of the car's details match the builders photo of #11908 in my collection, others do not.  The roof appears to have been replaced, as well as the door/door tracks.  The door stops, and corner braces do match, as do those two little "nubs" where you'd expect to see the Poling pockets.
    These cars were built lettered with the "Michigan Central  The Niagara Falls route" logo in the upper right corner, and had hand holds, not ladders as new.    Col. Frank Hecker and Charles Freer merged the company together in 1899(from 13 smaller builders), and quickly sold out their interest in it.  My notes say the cars were built in 1905, but maybe a NYC fan can correct me if that is wrong.  The cars were ACF lot #1484, which could be traced down on Westerfield's ACF DVD probably.
    Rich Burg
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Greg Martin
 

Tim,
 
I believe the term for these, at least with the mechanical folks, is constant contact side bearing.
 
In the last three or fours (excuse the OT nature except for comparison)  years these have been removed and replaced by an upgrade that doesn't include the to lower rollers with needle bearing inserts.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 2/28/2015 6:09:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

One reason is that friction bearings really do exist and are present on most
freight car trucks -- but they are NOT the same thing as journal bearings.

http://theweatheringshop.com/images/trucks4.jpg

This picture illustrates them nicely -- See those items on top of the truck
bolster about 1/4 way in from each side? Those are friction bearings. There
are corresponding parts attached to each freight car's bolsters. These bearings
prevent direct contact between the static parts of the carbody and the trucks,
as the car rocks (tilts) from side to side as it rolls down the track.

Some HO trucks replicate these bearings, but most do not. The ones shown in the
photograph above are very accurate representations. You can find them advertised
in Car Builder Cycs, since they are a wear item and are sold by third parties.

Tim O'Connor
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tony Thompson
 

Andy Jackson wrote:

 

There are many words in the English language (& probably many others) that have multiple meanings. Just ask the professional football about using a "switch" to discipline his kid! So what's the sense in getting so righteous about whether "switch" or "turnout" is the correct word for a device that lets a train take a diverging route. Having been a conductor prefer to use what the thousands of real (not model) railroaders use. Besides has anyone ever heard of a "turnout" engine? LOL


      As our leader, Mike Brock, has pointed out, on this list we do try to use the terminology of "real" railroaders. But even if train crews do not use the word "turnout," track professionals do, and it's in official terminology lists for track engineering. "Turnout" is NOT a hobby term. Certainly a problem arises when different parts of the railroad industry may use different terms for the same thing. 
       In the case of freight cars (remember them?), this list can and does use the definitions of terms shown in each issue of the _Car Builders Cyclopedia_ at least as late as 1960. If you peruse those definitions, you will NOT find entries under "roof walk" or "outside braced," though these terms are in common use in the hobby, and at least have the virtue that their meaning is clear. Everyone has to decide if they want to use actual railroad terminology or not. Heck, call it a "thing-a-ma-jig" if you like, but do realize that you are then straying away from railroad terminology. And you will be at variance with the stated policy of this list.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

asychis@...
 

Mike quoted this part of the reason we exist:"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."
 
Which makes obvious sense.  However, I fail to see where the mention of switch vs. turnout or roofwalk vs. running board would prevent "as great a degree of accuracy as possible."  If a person states he hand laid a #8 switch, would one actually be confused and think a #8 electrical switch was constructed?
 
If we have to continue this discussion as it has been going on now for three or four days, how about instituting peer review for posts?  Those whose sensibilities are greatly disturbed by other members egregious misuse of railroad terms could form a committee to review all members posts and clean them up for proper presentation to the group.
 
Oops, misread the calendar, it's March 1st not April 1st!
 
Jerry Michels
Re: 1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

Charlie Duckworth
 

Walt
The ARM/MPHS had contacted InterMountain twice about rerunning the three herald ART reefers we'd offered earlier but are unfortunately are unable to get an answer from them.  I wish I had better news as they sold well.

As to converting the UPFE R-40-10 to the first steel ART reefers; I wrote an article in the second Railway Prototype Cyclopedia  RP CYC Volume 2 Contents covering this conversion.  The problem will be finding decals since Odd Ball is out of business.  

Charlie Duckworth  

 

        
 
Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Jim Pickett
 

And the C&O called them Greenbriers.
 
Jim Pickett


On Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:16 PM, "'Paul Hillman' chris_hillman@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
And NYC called their 4-8-4 "Niagara"
 
Paul Hillman
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Terminology - Steam Locomotive

 
Mike said:
I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]
And Rob McLear
Aussie
Responded:
Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)
Yeah, well, DL&W preferred "Poconos" for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .
Schuyler
Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

riverman_vt@...
 

     And as provided for Mike Brock some fifteen years ago, in Vermont a 2-10-4 such as the Central Vermont 
operated in the time frame of this list was refered to as the "Vermont" type. Right Mike?   LOL

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Powdered Graphite

riverman_vt@...
 

   Kadee themselves have recommended and offered a tube of powdered graphite for years.
Why does anyone have to look any further?

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: 1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

WaltGCox@...
 

Will the MPHS be re-releasing the ART reefer in the late 50's paint scheme any time soon or has the period of exclusivity expired? I would like to add a couple to my roster as well as a couple of Intermountain R-40-10's if they are or can be made into reasonably accurate ART models since I believe the first ART steel refers were copies of the R-40-10 but I don't know how close.
Thanks in advance, Walt
 
In a message dated 2/28/2015 5:56:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

Wanted the group to know the 1960 ART reefer in HO scale is available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society.  The MPHS is a not for profit in the state of Missouri and proceeds from these sales go to converting our photos and diagrams to digital images that will be available on our web site later this year (mopac.org).   
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Not my point at all Mike. Should not the Subject Box describe what is being discussed so that doing things like a search are easier or so each of us can decide we want to read it. If we are striving for accuracy, which I think we are, why not have the Subject Box accurately describe what is being discussed? Freight Car Trucks inevitably go thru/over switches, points, frogs, rail joints but I don't think that makes them fall under "Freight Car Terminology" IMO.

None of us are perfect and I have failed to change the description with a reply that takes the topic in a different direction but if we each try a little harder to police ourselves, it would serve all of us better I think. Just sayin'.

Bill Welch
 
Re: 1919 - Miami Valley Conservancy Construction Photos

Benjamin Hom
 

Matt Goodman wrote:
"Track laying machinery and work train (including an NYC Furniture boxcar)

Camp Cars
http://www.miamiconservancy.org/resources/ConstructionPhotos-WM.asp?ID=3683

Based on the partial end reporting marks on the furniture car, it's most likely MCRR 11500-11999, no lot number, ACF built 1901, off the roster after 1925.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-11500.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm


Ben Hom
...daring to actually post information about freight cars today.
Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Paul Hillman
 

And NYC called their 4-8-4 "Niagara"
 
Paul Hillman
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Terminology - Steam Locomotive

 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred "Poconos" for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

Schuyler
Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

 

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

 

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

 

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred “Poconos” for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

 

Schuyler
1919- MiamiValleyConservancy Construction Photos

Matt Goodman
 

Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Mikebrock
 

Bill Welch writes:

"Just curious, why is this discussion titled "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.? "

Because when I wrote the original message it did pertain to a variety of different terms...some associated with frt cars including the infamous "outside braced" and "roof walk" terms, both of which were generated by the modeling community.

Does this matter? Some members have suggested that it does not, that, instead, we should use terms generated by those other than the RR industry. Let me put it this way. The STMFC is a forum in which discussions about real RR frt cars and the models we build of them are discussed. Just as the language we use on the STMFC is English, we also use real RR terms. This is an assumed position taken by STMFC mgt. As I said in the first message:

"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

It would seem, therefore, that, in order to achieve this accuracy, it would
be advantageous to use accurate railroad terminology, particularly if one
wanted others to understand their efforts."

Of course, it might be difficult for some without adequate reference material to have the needed information. Non the less, that is an objective of the STMFC. Mind you, at times disussions will need to use terms associated with model building. Nevertheless, the preferred terminology is that of real RRs.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner
Re: picture location was Re: Re: CH&D&PM System what is it

Eric Hansmann
 

That could be, Rich. I just never thought about those type of structures boarding that P&LE team yard. They look like they face a street, yet Carson Street is on the other side of the buildings. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Just curious, why is this discussion titled  "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.?

Bill Welch
Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Paul Hillman
 


Jack,
 
Wonder what they were called when they were stub-type? (No points) Stub-switches or stub-turnouts.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

Tony Thompson wrote:  " Read the professional literature on track more closely and you will find that "turnout" refers to the movable part of the device, and that "switch" refers to the entire trackwork. "


Uh, no. That's backwards.  Admittedly, the AREMA definition of "Switch - a track structure used to divert rolling stock from one track to another." could be a bit ambiguous, but "Turnout - an arrangement of a switch and a frog with closure rails,  by means of which rolling stock may be diverted from one track to another." should be clear.

Formal engineering usage is consistent that the switch is the portion with points and stock rails, including the associated rods, plates, braces, heel blocks and fasteners.  In informal usage, switch can be a synonym for turnout. (An example of synecdoche?)

One major exception is that the ties for a turnout are called switch ties.

I have over 30 years professional and managerial experience in the Engineering Dept. of major railroads.

Jack Mullen


Freight Car Terminology (Nomenclature)

genegreen1942@...
 

One good source correct nomenclature for rolling stock is the various Car Builders' Dictionaries and Cyclopedias which has been mentioned often on this forum.

Another source, that seems easier to use, is the charts published by Simmons-Boardman.  My collection includes 25 different ones listed below although a few are for cars designed after 1960 and, of course, the locomotive charts are not applicable here at all.  These charts include a perspective drawing with cutouts and numbers on the various parts.  Each part is identified in lists below and to the side of the drawings.  The obvious, and sole, purpose is to give the correct nomenclature for freight cars.

I find these on eBay from time to time and, because until today I didn't keep a list of what I had, I have some duplicates which, if there is interest, I am willing to sell.  Indeed when my wife saw all these this morning that is exactly the suggestion she made.

Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design nomenclature                    
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, AAR, standard steel, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, Anatomy of ARA standard double-sheathed, steel-frame
Chart, Boxcar, Steel Sheathed, Cushion Underframe                  
Chart, Boxcar, nomenclature                                        
Chart, Flatcar, All-Purpose, TTX TOFC/COFC                         
Chart, Gondola, nomenclature                                       
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, open-top, nomenclature                              
Chart, Locomotive, Consolidation (2-8-0) nomenclature              
Chart, Locomotive, Electro-Motive GP-9 Diesel                      
Chart, Locomotive, Hudson (4-6-4) nomenclature                     
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (laminated)           
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (paper)               
Chart, Locomotive, Mikado, nomenclature                            
Chart, Passenger Car-Air Conditioned Chair Car                     
Chart, Passenger Car-Light-Weight Streamlined Design               
Chart, Refrigerator Car, Mechanical                                
Chart, Tank Car Anatomy GATX                                       
Gene Green
Out in the Badlands of New Mexico
67561 - 67580 of 199767