Date   

Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

Tim O'Connor
 


This one does not. That is the point.



On 1/26/2022 4:47 PM, rdgbuff56 via groups.io wrote:

Some 100 ton coal hoppers have wheelsets that extend further than ends.

Francis a. Pehowic, Jr.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022, 04:41:21 PM EST, Dennis Storzek <dennis@...> wrote:


On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Allen Montgomery wrote:
The second picture shows the amount of overhang of the wheel sets as I had to move them out to gain some room for the trucks to pivot. That was the one thing I had to change from the drawing in Terry Metcalfe's book.
I don't know exactly how to broach this subject without hurting feelings, but with 3D printers leading a lot more people to try to design model railroad equipment, it needs to be discussed. While the printed body looks really fine, the misplaced trucks make it look like an ore car. Those of us who have done this work know that until everybody migrates to P:87, there are going to have to be compromises made, and choosing the right compromise is part of the art.

First off, identify the proper trucks to design for. If those are 100 ton trucks with 36" wheels, they are seven inches longer than the proper trucks; 4" in the wheelbase, and 3" more in the extra diameter of the wheels. Here is a link to an older version of the same design car: CBQ220145

Note the relationship of the trucks to the features on the body; The wheels don't extend past the end sill, few prototypes do (only ore cars) and the truck bolster is back under the full height side sheet, since that's where the body bolster, that transfers the weight of the car to the truck, is located. This relationship is the same on all hopper cars, with very few exceptions.

Even with the proper trucks on this car, however, there are likely to be problems. Our commonly used wheels, even the Code 88 wheels, have deeper flanges than the prototype, so the truck is still about two or three inches too long, In addition, we expect our models to go around curves that would derail the prototype. This is where the designer needs to get creative. My suggestion would be to put the truck king pin where it belongs, then shorten the discharge gate by whatever is needed to gain adequate truck swing. There is no real visual "landmark" on the body above the end frame of the discharge chute, so there will be nothing that looks wrong, and the slight variation from the prototype will never be noticed.

Dennis Storzek


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: What's on my workbench

Robert kirkham
 

Some dry brushing for the paint chipped off the one running board (Tamiya wooden deck tan XF-78) and diluted mixes of Vallejo basalt gray (70.869) and white for the galvanized roof.   The rest was a series of washes using Vallejo Model Air 71.12 US Desert Sand, more of the Tamiya XF-78, and sludge from the water glass I use to rinse brushes in.   I also used a fibreglass pencil to scrub away or thin some of the more glaring places areas.  

Rob    

On Jan 26, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:

Your cars are already looking great. Looks like you applied some washes.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Very nice 

Paul Doggett


On 26 Jan 2022, at 20:29, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

 I thought I’d share a couple of my weathering projects on the Rapido cars.  Definitely still work in progress, with no flat coat applied.  I keep playing with softening the edges where some of the washes create a bit of a strong line.  I see I still need to do something with the trucks and wheels as well.

Rob

<Image.jpeg><Image.jpeg>





Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

Richard Townsend
 

I agree with Dennis. I think what he suggests is a more appropriate compromise. 

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2022 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Allen Montgomery wrote:
The second picture shows the amount of overhang of the wheel sets as I had to move them out to gain some room for the trucks to pivot. That was the one thing I had to change from the drawing in Terry Metcalfe's book.
I don't know exactly how to broach this subject without hurting feelings, but with 3D printers leading a lot more people to try to design model railroad equipment, it needs to be discussed. While the printed body looks really fine, the misplaced trucks make it look like an ore car. Those of us who have done this work know that until everybody migrates to P:87, there are going to have to be compromises made, and choosing the right compromise is part of the art.

First off, identify the proper trucks to design for. If those are 100 ton trucks with 36" wheels, they are seven inches longer than the proper trucks; 4" in the wheelbase, and 3" more in the extra diameter of the wheels. Here is a link to an older version of the same design car: CBQ220145

Note the relationship of the trucks to the features on the body; The wheels don't extend past the end sill, few prototypes do (only ore cars) and the truck bolster is back under the full height side sheet, since that's where the body bolster, that transfers the weight of the car to the truck, is located. This relationship is the same on all hopper cars, with very few exceptions.

Even with the proper trucks on this car, however, there are likely to be problems. Our commonly used wheels, even the Code 88 wheels, have deeper flanges than the prototype, so the truck is still about two or three inches too long, In addition, we expect our models to go around curves that would derail the prototype. This is where the designer needs to get creative. My suggestion would be to put the truck king pin where it belongs, then shorten the discharge gate by whatever is needed to gain adequate truck swing. There is no real visual "landmark" on the body above the end frame of the discharge chute, so there will be nothing that looks wrong, and the slight variation from the prototype will never be noticed.

Dennis Storzek


Re: What's on my workbench

Dave Boss
 

Your cars are already looking great. Looks like you applied some washes.


On Wednesday, January 26, 2022, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Very nice 

Paul Doggett


On 26 Jan 2022, at 20:29, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

 I thought I’d share a couple of my weathering projects on the Rapido cars.  Definitely still work in progress, with no flat coat applied.  I keep playing with softening the edges where some of the washes create a bit of a strong line.  I see I still need to do something with the trucks and wheels as well.

Rob

Image.jpegImage.jpeg


Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway boxcars

David
 

From what I've seen over the years, a smaller railroad would typically solicit bids from various builders for a particular order they were planning, and the builders would respond with a quote for a design they had recently booked a larger order for.

David Thompson


Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

rdgbuff56
 

Some 100 ton coal hoppers have wheelsets that extend further than ends.

Francis a. Pehowic, Jr.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022, 04:41:21 PM EST, Dennis Storzek <dennis@...> wrote:


On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Allen Montgomery wrote:
The second picture shows the amount of overhang of the wheel sets as I had to move them out to gain some room for the trucks to pivot. That was the one thing I had to change from the drawing in Terry Metcalfe's book.
I don't know exactly how to broach this subject without hurting feelings, but with 3D printers leading a lot more people to try to design model railroad equipment, it needs to be discussed. While the printed body looks really fine, the misplaced trucks make it look like an ore car. Those of us who have done this work know that until everybody migrates to P:87, there are going to have to be compromises made, and choosing the right compromise is part of the art.

First off, identify the proper trucks to design for. If those are 100 ton trucks with 36" wheels, they are seven inches longer than the proper trucks; 4" in the wheelbase, and 3" more in the extra diameter of the wheels. Here is a link to an older version of the same design car: CBQ220145

Note the relationship of the trucks to the features on the body; The wheels don't extend past the end sill, few prototypes do (only ore cars) and the truck bolster is back under the full height side sheet, since that's where the body bolster, that transfers the weight of the car to the truck, is located. This relationship is the same on all hopper cars, with very few exceptions.

Even with the proper trucks on this car, however, there are likely to be problems. Our commonly used wheels, even the Code 88 wheels, have deeper flanges than the prototype, so the truck is still about two or three inches too long, In addition, we expect our models to go around curves that would derail the prototype. This is where the designer needs to get creative. My suggestion would be to put the truck king pin where it belongs, then shorten the discharge gate by whatever is needed to gain adequate truck swing. There is no real visual "landmark" on the body above the end frame of the discharge chute, so there will be nothing that looks wrong, and the slight variation from the prototype will never be noticed.

Dennis Storzek


Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Allen Montgomery wrote:
The second picture shows the amount of overhang of the wheel sets as I had to move them out to gain some room for the trucks to pivot. That was the one thing I had to change from the drawing in Terry Metcalfe's book.
I don't know exactly how to broach this subject without hurting feelings, but with 3D printers leading a lot more people to try to design model railroad equipment, it needs to be discussed. While the printed body looks really fine, the misplaced trucks make it look like an ore car. Those of us who have done this work know that until everybody migrates to P:87, there are going to have to be compromises made, and choosing the right compromise is part of the art.

First off, identify the proper trucks to design for. If those are 100 ton trucks with 36" wheels, they are seven inches longer than the proper trucks; 4" in the wheelbase, and 3" more in the extra diameter of the wheels. Here is a link to an older version of the same design car: CBQ220145

Note the relationship of the trucks to the features on the body; The wheels don't extend past the end sill, few prototypes do (only ore cars) and the truck bolster is back under the full height side sheet, since that's where the body bolster, that transfers the weight of the car to the truck, is located. This relationship is the same on all hopper cars, with very few exceptions.

Even with the proper trucks on this car, however, there are likely to be problems. Our commonly used wheels, even the Code 88 wheels, have deeper flanges than the prototype, so the truck is still about two or three inches too long, In addition, we expect our models to go around curves that would derail the prototype. This is where the designer needs to get creative. My suggestion would be to put the truck king pin where it belongs, then shorten the discharge gate by whatever is needed to gain adequate truck swing. There is no real visual "landmark" on the body above the end frame of the discharge chute, so there will be nothing that looks wrong, and the slight variation from the prototype will never be noticed.

Dennis Storzek


Re: What's on my workbench

Paul Doggett
 

Very nice 

Paul Doggett


On 26 Jan 2022, at 20:29, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

 I thought I’d share a couple of my weathering projects on the Rapido cars.  Definitely still work in progress, with no flat coat applied.  I keep playing with softening the edges where some of the washes create a bit of a strong line.  I see I still need to do something with the trucks and wheels as well.

Rob

Image.jpegImage.jpeg


Re: What's on my workbench

O Fenton Wells
 

Looking mighty good, thanks for sharing.  
I will abstain for a few days.
Fenton

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 3:29 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
I thought I’d share a couple of my weathering projects on the Rapido cars.  Definitely still work in progress, with no flat coat applied.  I keep playing with softening the edges where some of the washes create a bit of a strong line.  I see I still need to do something with the trucks and wheels as well.

Rob

Image.jpegImage.jpeg



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


What's on my workbench

Robert kirkham
 

I thought I’d share a couple of my weathering projects on the Rapido cars.  Definitely still work in progress, with no flat coat applied.  I keep playing with softening the edges where some of the washes create a bit of a strong line.  I see I still need to do something with the trucks and wheels as well.

Rob

Image.jpegImage.jpeg


Re: F&C ARA 32 box

Paul Doggett
 

Clark 
You made a great job of it 

Paul Doggett 


On 26 Jan 2022, at 19:21, Clark Propst via groups.io <cepropst@...> wrote:


This is a F&C ARA 1932 design box car I got for the “Make me buy it” price. Even thought it was the new one piece body it still had the crappy decals that came with the early Yankee Clipper kits. It was to be CofG. I figured the body style was the same as the Mopac’s? I checked with Charlie Duckworth. He recommended a decal set sold by the MPHS, or whatever the call themselves, Decals arrived in a timely manner. Beings the dimensional data said the car had a 10’ IH I got nervous and checked the Ed Hawkins ARA 32 and AAR 37 lists. The number appears to be good for one of these cars, even though the built date is off a month...I thought of turning the 3 9s upside down, but was too lazy...
 
After decaling, I airbrushed a black tinted thinned Dullcote on the underside, roof and ends. Then a off white tinted mix on the sides – Photo 1
Photo 2 – for something different I scrubbed AMI powders on the car with a short, stiff bristled brush
Photo 3 – after washing with a tooth brush in warm water its ready ready for duty
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Attachments:


F&C ARA 32 box

Clark Propst
 

This is a F&C ARA 1932 design box car I got for the “Make me buy it” price. Even thought it was the new one piece body it still had the crappy decals that came with the early Yankee Clipper kits. It was to be CofG. I figured the body style was the same as the Mopac’s? I checked with Charlie Duckworth. He recommended a decal set sold by the MPHS, or whatever the call themselves, Decals arrived in a timely manner. Beings the dimensional data said the car had a 10’ IH I got nervous and checked the Ed Hawkins ARA 32 and AAR 37 lists. The number appears to be good for one of these cars, even though the built date is off a month...I thought of turning the 3 9s upside down, but was too lazy...
 
After decaling, I airbrushed a black tinted thinned Dullcote on the underside, roof and ends. Then a off white tinted mix on the sides – Photo 1
Photo 2 – for something different I scrubbed AMI powders on the car with a short, stiff bristled brush
Photo 3 – after washing with a tooth brush in warm water its ready ready for duty
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway boxcars

Ian Cranstone
 

I hadn't been aware of these specific follow-on orders, but the practice of smaller Canadian roads placing an order for cars identical to and immediately following one by a major Canadian road seems to not be uncommon: BC Rail did so as recently as 1979-80 with boxcars that were a followup to a CN series.

I can certainly see why the smaller roads might be interested in doing such things... there had to be a cost saving in terms of the builder already having the jigs on the floor, and workers that clearly understood construction sequences and challenges of any particular car build. Clearly the builders were willing to pass along some of the savings, which would result in such orders being more affordable for smaller roads.

It would be interesting to see how this sort of order was created... did the smaller road explore with builders to see what orders were in the books that they might be able to tack on to, or did the builders reach out to smaller roads on a regular basis to see if they might be interested in acquiring cars -- especially if the builder expected some downtime following said larger order.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


On 2022-01-24 20:45, John Riddell wrote:

Correction:

Series 80200-80398 were purchased new in June 1917 from CC&F with specifications matching CGR 81611-82610 built in 1917 by CC&F. 

Series 80400-80498 were purchased new from National Steel Car of Hamilton, Ontario in 1923. These were same specifications as CNR series 427000-427999 built in 1923 by NSC.  


Re: Sp Box Car 83627

Todd Sullivan
 

I have the same or a similar kit with the same stencil.  My thought has been that the car was assigned to carry petroleum products in barrels, and that the producer was located in Bakersfield.  When clerking in Portland, OR in the1960s, I saw a few SP 50ft DD boxcars with similar stencils.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Sp Box Car 83627

Jay Styron
 

I am doing some research at the club to find out what the origin of this stencil was. The other night, no one knew. Will advise.
-Jay Styron


Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

Dick Harley
 


FWIW, The California State RR Museum Library has the General Design drawing for that class.

https://csrm.andornot.com/en/permalink/techdrawing32274


Tim is right about the trucks.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway boxcars

John Barry
 

Bruce,

The TEM's Railway Accounting Code was 754 and 33 of their 149 stations had agents and their remainder were prepay only for receiving freight.  At Trout Mills Ont. Wm. Milne & Sons was the only consignee that could receive carload freight, others were LCL only.  Dome, Ont was a private siding only.  Chesterville Larder Lake Gold Mines and Kerr-Addison Gold Mine in Cheminis as well as Broulan Porcupine Mines, Ltd and Pamour Mines in Pamour could receive collect shipments when the other consignees at those stations had to be pre-paid. Hallnor mines was the only consignee that could receive freight at Hallnor.  And Englehart North,  Ont., althugh a manned station, was a junction point and no freight was handled there whatsoever.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Monday, January 24, 2022, 05:52:49 PM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

 

The predecessor of the Ontario Northland, the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway, reporting marks TEM (and specifically called out in the ORER as not to be confused with the T&NO RR or Temiscouata Ry.)  had a modest fleet of boxcars in service in interchange service in the early 1940s. The 1943 ORER lists 212 boxcars, all 36' interior length, 8' (or 8'1") interior height and either wooden or single sheathed bodies in 4 series (2 each). These were apparently in newsprint service, often to the United States. 


I am curious to know more about the type of cars, possible models, and potential decals (There was a Clover House set of dry transfers, but I think that they were for an earlier time period).

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


Re: Chalk Marks

John Riddell
 

CDS does not sell chalk marks.

 

John Riddell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Finish issues

John Barry
 

Eric,

Remember those hot, muggy days of summer when you walked out of the air conditioned house and your glasses fogged?  The same may have happened when you brought the 50 degree models into the 70+ house and they picked up condensation.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Monday, January 24, 2022, 04:46:06 PM EST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Yes, the garage is brick. I open the garage door on days with 50+ degree temps to airbrush. I just did this with a few more models. I have a spray booth that is vented with the exhaust going out to the side of the garage. I open the door to warm the place up. It’s also easier to walk the models out to a small table on the driveway to encourage drying.

 

Tennessee can be pretty humid, but I sprayed the flat coat onto these models December 21st. It’s about the same weather here today with temps in the mid-50s and humidity at 38%. The models sit outside while I clean the airbrush and put supplies away. I move them to the dining room table to finish drying.

 

And now I wonder if the indoor humidity may have been a factor.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of William Dale
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Finish issues

 

Eric, 

     You mentioned humidity and garage in your post. Is there any chance your garage is masonry in construct? I had this same issue pop up on two
cars I was working on in the past, at the same time. I felt that high humidity was the culprit. As you know living on the east it plagues us. My home, the main part is two foot thick stone walls, I work outside, so I’m one not to run the A/C in the summer, and this was the time frame in which I did decal these cars. Now, to your credit, patience prevailed, I on the other hand was off to the grit blast cabinet and started over. Now, I should mention I use a wide variety of paints, mostly Tru-Color, a few acrylics, and Scalecoat to round it out. That said, I’m not going to point a finger at the type of paint used, more Mother Nature.

Billy


Re: UP HK-50-3 Ballast Hopper

Tony Thompson
 

Allen Montgomery wrote:

I believe I am done with the fine tuning of this 3D resin printed car. I spent yesterday adding the final under frame details that I can make out in the pictures. I know I missed a few things that are obscured by shadow in the black and white photos.
The second picture shows the amount of overhang of the wheel sets as I had to move them out to gain some room for the trucks to pivot. That was the one thing I had to change from the drawing in Terry Metcalfe's book. The final weight with hardware means I will have to add a little less than two ounces per car. I've been patiently waiting for some Tamiya primer for 3 months now and I regret I was not able to give this a coat to cut down on the resin shine and let the details pop.
Now it's time to find a decal set that will work for this car. Any suggestions?

Allen, the model looks excellent. It is almost a dead ringer for the H-70-2 class on Southern Pacific. Any chance some of the bodies will be for sale or trade?

Tony Thompson


6981 - 7000 of 196825