Date   

Re: NYC 710648

Eric Lombard
 

John, The ubiquitous Higgins boats were made by Higgins Industries in New Orleans during WWII. Here is a link to a short article in the local paper about it. Imagine running up on the beach at Normandy or Tarawa in one of these... made of plywood.

http://www.nola.com/175years/index.ssf/2011/11/1944_higgins_industries_in_new.html

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:35 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Can any of you NYC guys help me with some modeling info for the NYC 710648?  I have it built in lot 702-G series 710000-710999 in 1941 and the builder's photo of the class unit from the CanadaSouthern website, along with a copy of the linked diagram.  All in all a great start to recreate this scene: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/item/oem2002005431/PP/resource/ , loading an LCM into the car at the Higgens Plant in New Orleans.  I see from the ORER that they were 70 ton cars, what kind of trucks?  Is there a commercial kit for this wood floored 52'6 gon?  The diagram and two photos give a good basis for scratching it if not, but if its been done. . .  
 
John Barry


PS, did it have a class designation?  Not sure how that worked on the NYC.

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights




3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

Bruce Smith
 

Don,

As Bill has pointed out, the concentrate was frozen and thus needed to be kept frozen.  In addition, the length of the haul was significantly different.  Milk was typically only hauled for a few hours to reach a processing plant whereas Orange Juice would conceivably travel for several days, if shipped by train.

regards
Bruce


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

On Jun 20, 2014, at 6:10 AM, riverman_vt@... [STMFC] wrote:

      Respectfully, some of this makes sense and some of it does not, Bill. Why did orange juice concentrate

require refrigeration??? Ideally milk needs to be kept at 39 degrees, which had been achieved in milk tank cars

transported in both freight and passenger trains since the mid-1920's and without the use of refrigeration. Indeed, H.P. Hood was using some of its leased GPEX milk cars to move OJ concentrate from Dunedin, FL to Boston in the early 1970's, some four years after they stopped shipping any milk in some of the same cars.

I do not, however, know the date that Hood began shipping OJ concentrate in the GPEX cars, but this certainly makes me wonder why there was a need for Thermo-King units on cars used for that purpose after W.W. II. Was there a real need for such equipment or only a "perceived" need followed by a good snow, er "sales", job?


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Craig Zeni wrote:

Is there any evidence that prior to their insulated/mechanical cars of the late 1960s that Trop used ice reefers? Bill Welch indicated to me that he thought Trop used FGEX cars; a friend in Lakeland FL thinks he recalls seeing orange cars with Tropic Anna on them in the 50s. It's alluded to in the Wikipedia article (duly taken with a grain of rock salt) that some concentrate was shipped by rail in the 50s (and 60s) but I'm trying to establish if there were Trop-painted cars prior to the mechanicals later of Juice Train fame.

I was under the impression that Tropicana mostly used intracoastal shipping for their orange juice shipments from Tampa to the Northeast, which would have been most of their business. Maybe that was before WW2, but I thought that was the case into the '70s. But I don't recall seeing any other cars with Tropicana logos in the 1945-1970 period.

Scott Chatfield


NYC 710648

John Barry
 

Can any of you NYC guys help me with some modeling info for the NYC 710648?  I have it built in lot 702-G series 710000-710999 in 1941 and the builder's photo of the class unit from the CanadaSouthern website, along with a copy of the linked diagram.  All in all a great start to recreate this scene: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/item/oem2002005431/PP/resource/ , loading an LCM into the car at the Higgens Plant in New Orleans.  I see from the ORER that they were 70 ton cars, what kind of trucks?  Is there a commercial kit for this wood floored 52'6 gon?  The diagram and two photos give a good basis for scratching it if not, but if its been done. . .  
 
John Barry


PS, did it have a class designation?  Not sure how that worked on the NYC.

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Re: New one on me.....

Charlie Vlk
 

Upon further looking at the listing the shows an importer address of Westbury, LI, NY.

IIRC the earlier Mantua / Crown  carded cars were more direct copies of the Athearn originals with the waycar having body mounted X2f couplers.  This version has truck mounts.

I think that AHM imported cars from the same tooling from Hong Kong.  Interestingly, the box illustration looks to be the same style as Bachmann although it might just be a rip-off of EMD art.

I know that trainset-level cars are of little direct relevance to this list but Blue Box and similar now-crude equipment is from whence we came and may be of nostalgic interest to listees.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New one on me.....

 

 

The stamped steel end ladders look a lot like a similar version of the same caboose that was packaged under the AHM label back in the later '60's.   I remember buying four at FW Woolworths for $1.50 apiece (on sale).

They were a close knock-off of the ever common Athearn ATSF style waycar, the give-away is how the steps were molded.

 

Tom Casey

 

 

 

 

Ran across a listing on eBay for what looks to be a Bachmann / ex Crown ATSF-style steel offset cupola caboose with “Bronco-Super Quality” lettering.

Anybody ever hear of that brand before?   It is a new one on me!!!

(disclaimer- posted for historical curiosity only…no interest in the listing).

Charlie Vlk


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

Bill Welch
 

I think the need is obvious Don. Since the concentrate was FROZEN, it would thaw w/o refrigeration.

To clarify about the Thermo-King units, their primary application was to truck trailers. FGE built 11 40-foot Thermo-King cars to evaluate. While they were effective at maintaining low temperatures, the power plants were fueled by gasoline meaning that they could only run on the FGE/WFE/BRE System including their contracted lines, as the RR's outside the system would not accept them for interchange because of the fuel  they used. They also built 40-foot cars with Frigidaire systems that ran on diesel fuel and these cars could go anywhere. The Frigidaire systems became the FGE/WFE/BRE System's standard cooling units although they did experiment with other systems. Thermo-King did eventually find or develop a diesel power unit.

Stepping back in history a few years, FGE built 10 50-ft steel overhead bunker cars with ten roof hatches in 1940 cooled by a brine solution as their initial response to transporting frozen commodities. Then beginning in 1944 they began to build eventually 200 50-foot plywood sheathed OHB cars giving them a total of 210 OHB cars by 1946. These cars had a massive fish belly center sill and their door hardware and safety appliances on the sides was recessed into the car's side to meet clearance specs. These cars are unlikely to be confused with anything else on the rails. The last 75 plywood cars had a different more rectangular hatch cover that was hinged near the running board. While effective, they took much longer to ice and re-ice and required more care so as not to damage the bottom of the bunkers—no sharp tools. By 1949 FGE had two 40-foot Mechs in service trials and within months of these successful trials began build more 40-footers, the aforementioned Thermo-King and Frigidaire cars followed in 1950 with trials of 50-foot Mechs. However, in 1950 the FGE Indiana Harbor shops turned out 100 new steel sheathed OHB cars for FGE and 50 copies for WFE, their first and only of the type. These cars used the same roof configuration as the last 75 plywood cars. Although I have not found any correspondence about the rationale for building these cars, my guess is that they were hedging their bets as the Mechanical Systems were still in their early development. I have photos of both the plywood and steel versions in revenue service well into the late 1960's. When re-sheathed the plywood was replace with T&G.

Bill Welch
 


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

John Barry
 

I doubt shipments to the local Borden's Dairy were by rail pre-1964, but I do recall that we got reconstituted OJ as well as milk delivered in their ubiquitous Elsie adorned refrigerated box trucks in Fort Walton Beach.  Closest rail service would have been to Crestview on the L&N or Pensacola on the Frisco.  Neither with great connections to the central FLA groves.  But the suggestion of Milk Reefers for points north may have traction given the combination of products delivered down south in the period.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "George Eichelberger geichelberger@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 7:30 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

During some period, the Florida OJ producers used classic “milk” cars (GPEX?) to ship unfrozen juice concentrate “up north”. Very unusual cars to see in Fla. Does anyone know when that traffic began or ended or where it originated? From a railroad guy, the destination may have been Hoods Dairy in the Boston area. I only saw the car at the ex ACL Lakeland, FL yard so I do not know who the shipper was. There were several juice processors in Central Fla at that time so I do not believe Tropicana ever used that method. The car was in freight, not in passenger express service.

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Re: {Disarmed} Kadee???

Tim O'Connor
 


Correct... the retail store sold not only Kadee but items from
several other manufacturers as well. I stopped buying direct years
ago after they charged me huge shipping fees, like almost $20
for a single freight car! I'm not surprised the business failed.

Tim O'Connor


  http://www.kadeetrains.com/
  Looks like they may just be closing out their retail store


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

George Eichelberger
 

During some period, the Florida OJ producers used classic “milk” cars (GPEX?) to ship unfrozen juice concentrate “up north”. Very unusual cars to see in Fla. Does anyone know when that traffic began or ended or where it originated? From a railroad guy, the destination may have been Hoods Dairy in the Boston area. I only saw the car at the ex ACL Lakeland, FL yard so I do not know who the shipper was. There were several juice processors in Central Fla at that time so I do not believe Tropicana ever used that method. The car was in freight, not in passenger express service.


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

George Eichelberger
 

We need a Tropicana historian but I am quite sure there never were any ice refrigerators marked as Tropicana. The company started in the late 40s and was barely in the OJ business in the 50s. As late as 1960, they were using their own refrigerated ship to move OJ from Florida to NYC, not the rails. They started buying their own mechanical reefers in the early 1970s.

Tropicana Glass is next door to the juice plant in Bradenton. It was always worth stopping by there in the late 60s and 70s because the ACL had quite a few twin covered hoppers assigned to sand service to the facility. The sand did not tear the cars up so very good photos of ACL covered hoppers were possible for years after the SCL merger.


Re: Tropicana in the 1950s

riverman_vt@...
 


      Respectfully, some of this makes sense and some of it does not, Bill. Why did orange juice concentrate

require refrigeration??? Ideally milk needs to be kept at 39 degrees, which had been achieved in milk tank cars

transported in both freight and passenger trains since the mid-1920's and without the use of refrigeration. Indeed, H.P. Hood was using some of its leased GPEX milk cars to move OJ concentrate from Dunedin, FL to Boston in the early 1970's, some four years after they stopped shipping any milk in some of the same cars.

I do not, however, know the date that Hood began shipping OJ concentrate in the GPEX cars, but this certainly makes me wonder why there was a need for Thermo-King units on cars used for that purpose after W.W. II. Was there a real need for such equipment or only a "perceived" need followed by a good snow, er "sales", job?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Kadee???

Clark Cooper
 

Chuck,

On the Kadee home page there's a advertisement link for kadeetrains.com, which is going out of business.

Kadee is not, as their online store is still open at www.kadee.com/store/index.php

They also advertise kadeecouplers.com, which sells only Kadee couplers. So Kadee appears to be selling the use of their name.

-Clark Cooper
(the other Iowa Clark)

On Jun 19, 2014, at 10:32 PM, lnnrr152@... [STMFC] wrote:


I just got an email notice that Kadee is having a close-out sale.

Is this just the other makers stuff they have been selling on the side

that they are clearing out? Or is this a closing the business type sale?

That to many of us would be a scary thought.

Does anyone have any real insight here? I don't want to start rumors.

Chuck Peck


Re: {Disarmed} Kadee???

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

Looks like they may just be closing out their retail store - which I think is essentially online only. I've been to the factory to buy some stuff and essentially one of the ladies in the office had to go back into the warehouse area to get it.


On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:32 PM, lnnrr152@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I just got an email notice that Kadee is having a close-out sale.

Is this just the other makers stuff they have been selling on the side

that they are clearing out?  Or is this a closing the business type sale?

That to many of us would be a scary thought.

Does anyone have any real insight here? I don't want to start rumors.

Chuck Peck


--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed


Re: New one on me.....

tyesac@...
 

The stamped steel end ladders look a lot like a similar version of the same caboose that was packaged under the AHM label back in the later '60's.   I remember buying four at FW Woolworths for $1.50 apiece (on sale).
They were a close knock-off of the ever common Athearn ATSF style waycar, the give-away is how the steps were molded.
 
Tom Casey
 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Charlie Vlk' cvlk@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jun 19, 2014 7:07 pm
Subject: [STMFC] New one on me.....

 
Ran across a listing on eBay for what looks to be a Bachmann / ex Crown ATSF-style steel offset cupola caboose with “Bronco-Super Quality” lettering.
Anybody ever hear of that brand before?   It is a new one on me!!!
(disclaimer- posted for historical curiosity only…no interest in the listing).
Charlie Vlk


1945 Santa Fe California Carload Statistics

John Barry
 

I have uncovered a source for commodity statistics for steam era freight car loadings on the Santa Fe in California and written a short blog post here:  http://northbaylines.blogspot.com/2014/06/freight-statistics-i-1945-california.html

Not quite a million loaded revenue cars handled in California during 1945.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Kadee???

Charles Peck
 

I just got an email notice that Kadee is having a close-out sale.

Is this just the other makers stuff they have been selling on the side

that they are clearing out?  Or is this a closing the business type sale?

That to many of us would be a scary thought.

Does anyone have any real insight here? I don't want to start rumors.

Chuck Peck


Re: Underbody colors on freight cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 19, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Brad Andonian cereshill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bruce and Don,

Many thanks for the quick responses.    I am primarily seeking paint from late 1940's era.

Brad, keep in mmd that in the 1940s the railroads were inconceivably filthy.  Car underbodies were subjected to constant attack from the ashes and soot from steam locomotives, journal oil sprayed on the underside of cars from truck journals and wheels, industrial grime, etc. etc.  What color the undersides of the cars were painted is relevant only if you are modeling a car that had recently been delivered new or just released from a paint shop.  After as little as six months or a year in service, the undersides of all cars were a dirty brownish dark gray.  This is consistently shown by the various color film sequences that have survived (now on video) that were shot from a low angle so the the undersides of the cars are visible.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New one on me.....

Steven D Johnson
 

Charlie,

 

I came across an HO Bronco freight car on eBay back in March, and posted a question to the Vintage HO Yahoo group about the brand.  See my post and the reply below.  The train artwork on the caboose box looks just like what Bachmann used back in the early to mid-1970s.

 

Steve Johnson

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

This may not exactly be “vintage,” but I’ve never heard of the “Bronco” brand before: 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-GAUGE-BRONCO-DUPONT-CENTER-FLOW-HOPPER-IN-ORIGINAL-BOX-/351024180216?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item51baabebf8

 

From the trucks, this appears to be identical to the Bachmann/AHM Center Flow models.  AHM offered the same paint scheme and road number:

 

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id63.html

 

Anyone know more about this brand?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Johnson

 

Hi Steve J., I believe "Bronco" is another trade name used by the toy and hobby importer, the Fred Bronner Company. Bronner was best known for having the exclusive US rights on Matchbox toys from the 50s into the 70s and 80s, but also carried many other lines, some under his own name to supply hobby stores throughout the US. I believe we may have even discussed it here about 4 years ago. Can anyone else help? Possibly Reed E.? W. Jay W.

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 4:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] New one on me.....

 

 

Ran across a listing on eBay for what looks to be a Bachmann / ex Crown ATSF-style steel offset cupola caboose with “Bronco-Super Quality” lettering.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-VINTAGE-BRONCO-BURLINGTON-ROUTE-CABOOSE-12384-OB-/121366068720?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c41fb3df0

Anybody ever hear of that brand before?   It is a new one on me!!!

(disclaimer- posted for historical curiosity only…no interest in the listing).

Charlie Vlk


Re: New one on me.....

Chuck Higdon
 

Looks just like what AHM was selling to me.



Take care,
Chuck Higdon- check out my FEC layout at
https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361







From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] New one on me.....





Ran across a listing on eBay for what looks to be a Bachmann / ex Crown
ATSF-style steel offset cupola caboose with "Bronco-Super Quality"
lettering.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-VINTAGE-BRONCO-BURLINGTON-ROUTE-CABOOSE-12384-OB-
/121366068720?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c41fb3df0

Anybody ever hear of that brand before? It is a new one on me!!!

(disclaimer- posted for historical curiosity only.no interest in the
listing).

Charlie Vlk


Western Refrigerator Line and AC&F reefers

Bill Welch
 

I mostly like to "roll my own" so I have very few factory painted kits but I did buy one the Branchline reefers done for the Western Refrigerator Line. I believe that this GB&W Company had a relationship with NWX but I am wondering if someone could confirm this and what it meant in terms of their operations. Was the GB&W primarily transporting Dairy Products? Also Al Westerfield classified the AC&F designs as Type I, Type II, and Type III. The Type I was pretty distinctive. Does anyone know whether the BL model represents a Type II or Type III?


Thank you,


Bill Welch

 

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