main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Re: FW: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

arved_grass

Yippee! Bring it on!

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Thu, 11/13/14, pullmanboss@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FW: [STMFC] Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)
 To: STMFC@...
 Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014, 11:41 AM


  









       Elden enthused:> I am very excited
 that we are finally going to get an acid tank car.

 "An" acid tank
 car???? If you're merely excited about Tangent's
 neat post-1950 welded acid tank, you'll probably wet
 your pants at the thought of a bunch of pre-1950 riveted
 ones. Perhaps you missed Frank Hodina's pilot model of
 a 7000 gal.riveted acid tank at Lisle and in Dick Bale's
 New Products section of the September MODEL RAILROAD
 HOBBYIST. Resin kits, two tank sizes (7K and 8K), two frame
 lengths, three different dome styles.
 These will be offered by Frank's
 new company, Resin Car Works. Disclosure - I'm doing the
 casting for these.
 Tom
 Madden



 






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Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car

genegreen1942@...

#128917

Sulfuric acid, a by-product of copper smelting at Asarco in El Paso, Texas, was shipped to Minnesota for spraying on potato fields right before harvest to kill the vines. I'm told this facilitated mechanical harvesting and meant less unwanted debris among the potatoes. My observation of this practice occurred in the 1980s and 1990s. What I would really like to know is when such a practice began and if it goes back to 1950. Since I am modeling the upper Midwest in 1950 such shipments might fit my scheme.

Gene Green

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Marty McGuirk

#128905

I spent a pleasant hour or so last night really studying the parts, the prototype photos, and the GA drawings for the sample car Frank sent me.

First of all, the detail and sharpness of the parts - from the tank to the underframe to the myriad of small details is really amazing. Well done to the pattern maker and casters involved in producing this car!

As I told Frank, some of the resin parts are so sharp with details so clear I'd swear they were injection molded. The only discerable flash was on the underframe, and it was very thin and easily removed.

As I understand it, the decals will be limited to the paint scheme on the label but Frank plans to include a complete set of parts in each box to preclude custom packing each version of the car with roadname specific parts.

For example, I noted in my sample kit there were at least two different domes, along with all the parts needed for a platform, although the version I'm building didn't have a platform. This means you'll end up with lots of extra details and parts for other projects - it also means you need to identify which of those parts you need to use for each version. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now!

Marty McGuirk

Re: Clinchfield hopper deep in ATSF territory

John Barry

#128904

I can't pin down the location, but can eliminate most as the faint skyline to the right of the freight house limits possible locations to major cities such as Chicago, Denver, Kansas City, LA, Oakland, San Francisco, etc.  2discs number on the raised roof Bx-11/12 dates it to post Jan 45.  M184 suggests mid west but I don't have access to my div assignments at the moment. It does eliminate SF and Oakland though. 

John Barry

------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 2:18 AM PST paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:

I cannot help with the location but have I seen a similar photo of a DT&I hopper on the SP at San Francisco If I remember correctly.
Paul Doggett UK

Re: Clinchfield hopper deep in ATSF territory

paul.doggett2472@...

#128903

I cannot help with the location but have I seen a similar photo of a DT&I hopper on the SP at San Francisco If I remember correctly.

Paul Doggett UK

Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car

Eric Shatford

#128902

Group,

Again following up concerning where acid was produced, there are several photos of the Consolidated Chemical Industries plant in Fort Worth, TX in the Newberry Library, “Daily Life Along the Chicago Burlington and Quincy Railroad” collection. There are a couple of good shots of CCIX 342 in 1948. The plant was serviced by the Fort Worth and Denver. Here is a link to start:

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/nby_rrlife&CISOPTR=756&CISOBOX=1&REC=6

There are several other pictures in this group; all of the sulfuric end of the plant. By 1973, the plant was owned by Stauffer; later another company had it. The plant has been closed for some time now and is mostly demolished.

Respectfully,

Eric Shatford

Fort Worth, TX

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Rhbale@...

#128901

I spoke with Frank today and he has everything ready except the etched metal components. He is hoping to have everything ready to release by mid January.

Richard Bale

In a message dated 11/13/2014 6:05:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

Show quoted text

Tom, When does Frank think that he will have his acud car versions
ready for sale?

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711

On 11/13/14, 'Hunter, James R.' jhunter@... [STMFC]
wrote:
> Whoa! That is a cool tank! I definitely need a couple of those
>
>
>
> Jim Hunter
>
> ________________________________
> From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:02 PM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: [STMFC] Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)
>
>
>
> Here's the photo of Frank's 7K, short frame acid tank pilot model that
> appeared in MRH:
>
> http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg
>
>
>
> [image]
>
>
> http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg
>
>
> View on www.pullmanproject.com
>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> That's the Consolidated dome. The other two domes are for Hooker and
> Monsanto.
>
>
> Tom Madden
>
>
>

Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car

Chuck Soule

#128900

A question was asked about where acids were produced. Two examples are:

Hydrochloric acid is one byproduct of electolytic-based chlorine manufacturing. Stauffer had a plant in Tacoma, Washington, as did Hooker Chemical, due to the low cost of electricity.

I assume that the chlorine tank cars from the Stauffer and Hooker plants had different domes and other features than the acid tank cars, even though both styles had the same kind of platform around the dome. From Tacoma, the chlorine was typically shipped to pulp mills and to public water utilities. However, I think the chlorine for water supply disinfection was commonly shipped in cylinders loaded in box cars.

Sulfuric acid can be a byproduct of copper smelting (and probably other metallic ore smelting). It was generated at the Asarco smelter in Tacoma, but I do not know the typical reporting marks of the tank cars Asarco used.

Chuck Soule

Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

Carl Gustafson

#128899

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 01:22:41PM -0800, jeralbin@... [STMFC] wrote:
To follow up on Gary’s question: where was acid produced? 
 Sulfuric acid is a by-product of oil (and gas) refining. The hydrogen sulfide was captured and 
converted to sulfur or sulfuric acid. Stauffer had a proprietary technology for this.

Back in the time these cars would have been at-large, the demand for sulfuric acid could be satisfied 
this way, or possibly by burning a little sulfur, too. Now, most phosphoric acid is made via a wet 
process, instead of by thermal processes, and sulfuric acid needs to be imported by the tanker load.

Carl Gustafson

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Tom Madden

#128898

The etch frets are due next month, and Frank has one of his friends (a well-known and very gifted modeler) building sample models and writing the instructions now. I'll be shipping the first batch of production castings to him within a few days. He's got to formally announce first, so I can't speculate on when he'll actually be shipping kits. I'll certainly bring some sample castings to Cocoa Beach.

Tom Madden

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>

#128897

Sorry guys, I did mean "Acid" tank cars!

Tom Olsen

Show quoted text

On 11/13/14, Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...> wrote:
Tom, When does Frank think that he will have his acud car versions
ready for sale?

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711

On 11/13/14, 'Hunter, James R.' jhunter@... [STMFC]
<STMFC@...> wrote:
Whoa!  That is a cool tank!  I definitely need a couple of those

Jim Hunter

________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Here's the photo of Frank's 7K, short frame acid tank pilot model that
appeared in MRH:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg

[image] <http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg>

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg

View on www.pullmanproject.com
<http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg>

Preview by Yahoo

That's the Consolidated dome. The other two domes are for Hooker and
Monsanto.

Tom Madden

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>

#128896

Tom, When does Frank think that he will have his acud car versions
ready for sale?

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711

On 11/13/14, 'Hunter, James R.' jhunter@... [STMFC]
<STMFC@...> wrote:
Whoa!  That is a cool tank!  I definitely need a couple of those

Jim Hunter

________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Here's the photo of Frank's 7K, short frame acid tank pilot model that
appeared in MRH:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg

[image] <http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg>

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg

View on www.pullmanproject.com
<http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg>

Preview by Yahoo

That's the Consolidated dome. The other two domes are for Hooker and
Monsanto.

Tom Madden

Vallejo redux

Tim O'Connor

#128894

Dear Sheriff, and citizens of the steam era

Someone points out that Vallejo has so-called "train colors" -- and Mike,
what do you think of the "grease & oil stains" color? Would that be about
right for steam locomotives? (I agree with what you wrote about too-black
glossy steam locos.)

http://www.michtoy.com/michtoy_search_product.php?Vendor_ID=Vallejo&Series=Vallejo%20Train%20Color%20Paint&action=listing

Tim O'Connor

Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

naptownprr

#128893

Whoa! That is a cool tank! I definitely need a couple of those

Jim Hunter

Show quoted text

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Here's the photo of Frank's 7K, short frame acid tank pilot model that appeared in MRH:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg


			http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg
			View on www.pullmanproject.com	Preview by Yahoo

That's the Consolidated dome. The other two domes are for Hooker and Monsanto.

Tom Madden

Clinchfield hopper deep in ATSF territory

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)

#128892

Hi List Members,

Clinchfield hopper deep in ATSF territory.

Can anyone nail down the exact location?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15728847952/

 -  Claus Schlund

Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

Tom Madden

#128891

Here's the photo of Frank's 7K, short frame acid tank pilot model that appeared in MRH:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg


			http://www.pullmanproject.com/TCWX%20125%202.jpg
			View on www.pullmanproject.com	Preview by Yahoo

That's the Consolidated dome. The other two domes are for Hooker and Monsanto.

Tom Madden

Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

jeralbin@...

#128895

To follow up on Gary’s question: where was acid produced?

The Swift fertilizer plant in Calumet City, IL made sulfuric acid. The Pennsylvania Salt Mfg. Co. made hydrochloric acid and ferric chloride in Wyandotte MI, Natrona, PA and Tacoma, WA. They both shipped by tank car. Regards...Jerry Albin

Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

Carl Gustafson

#128890

Well, Stauffer Chemical Company (a former employer of mine) was big in phosphorus chemicals. They 
owned several phosphate mines. In the 70s, they made phosphoric acid for fertilizer use by cooking up 
phosphate ore with sulfuric acid. This would have been done near the mines. I believe they had mines 
or phosphorus furnace plants in Utah (Leafe?), Montana (furnace plant in Silver Bow IIRC, probably 
near the phosphorus source), and Florida (Tarpon Springs). There was a furnace plant in Mount 
Pleasant, Tennessee. Also, they made phosphoric acid for internal use as well, by burning phosphorus. 
They may have sold this acid also, but I don't know.

Fertilizer grade acid was ugly looking stuff (except for the Leafe acid - it was an attractive green 
color). I worked (as a pilot-plant technician) on a project to purify the fertilizer grade acid into 
food grade stuff. We did get a tank car, but I wasn't paying attention to such important matters then. 
I did have to go on top once, open the hatch on the dome, and sample the acid. I don't remember how we 
hooked it up to feed the pilot plant that was built.

Anyway, perhaps that's what Stauffer shipped in their cars (and Tangent is doing some painted up for 
Stauffer, so I'll have to find some cash to get one or two). If so, you'd find them at fertilizer 
plants.

Stauffer was also big in chlor-alkalai chemicals. Perhaps they also sold hydrochloric acid.

Carl Gustafson

MKT 92277

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)

#128889

Hi List Members,

Another nice view, this time featuring MKT 36ft truss rod boxcar.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15416780109/in/photostream/

Enjoy!

 -  Claus Schlund

"Tarvia" tank car in the corner

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)

#128888

Hi List Members,

Note "Tarvia" tank car in the corner - GATX 16775 maybe. Best viewed if you do the 'download' icon - the downward arrow against a horizontal line, then get original size image.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15600742871/in/photostream/

 -  Claus Schlund