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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 12/31/2014 8:50 PM, Tim O'Connor
timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
It's the first I've heard of them Carl. Are they a new item? What about the Sergent Engineering scale width boxes? Not strictly Kaydee compatible, but narrower. Carl "Corporal Engineering" Gustafson Their site says; highly prototypical Accurail® PROTO HO scale size draft gear boxes -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
It's the first I've heard of them Carl. Are they a new item?
What about the Sergent Engineering scale width boxes? Not strictly Kaydee compatible, but narrower. Carl "Corporal Engineering" Gustafson |
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T&P box car
Thomas Baker
Group:
I just dug out my data on T&P plug-door box cars 3000 and 3001, rebuilt from cars 41429 and 41438. From the drawing I have, I cannot determine whether the cars had welded sides or riveted sides. Anyone have additional information on these two cars?
Tom Baker
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
Schleigh Mike
Schuyler Larrabee wrote, Kadee also sold 78’s assembled in the draft gear box. Regrettably (IMHO) they have dropped these from their line. I have one left, and have cut off most of the card that they were sold on, retaining only the bubble from the bubble pack, trying to save space in my coupler drawer. in the associated discussions. While it is true that Kadee has discontinued their #78 "scale" coupler & draft gear box, they have replaced it with an externally identical offering, the #178. The difference is the new product has a "whisker" spring design while the old used a captured coil spring. The only possible major problem this presents is for SC&F resin tank cars which used the coil spring coupler in their own draft gear housing. Perhaps someday Jon Cagel will have to find another way to do this unless he stocked up a lifetime's worth of the #78's interiors. If you liked the #78, the #178 should be okay too. It does not have the slack run-out effect (coil compression) which may or not be for some a worthwhile feature, Regards for a Happy New Year and lots more modeling fun! Mike Schleigh On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 4:32 PM, "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]" wrote: Kadee also sold 78’s assembled in the draft gear box. Regrettably (IMHO) they have dropped these from their line. I have one left, and have cut off most of the card that they were sold on, retaining only the bubble from the bubble pack, trying to save space in my coupler drawer. The EXTERIOR dimension of the box is 0.245” wide, 0.148” deep, by 0.450 from the back of the coupler box face to the back end. The bottom side of the box has two longitudinal ribs, one either side, and the NET depth of the box exterior is 0.110”. The ribs are, therefore, 0.038” deep. The INTERIOR is approximately 0.060” deep, by 0.185” wide, by ~0.390 longitudinally. It’s hard to measure the interior side without disassembling the box, which I am loath to do. These also had a small loop on the back of the box, because they were molded in a slippery black plastic, and really required two screws to keep in alignment. I really liked these couplers and missed the announcement (if there was one) that they were being discontinued, or I’d have bought a LOT of them. So if you are looking for the “Standard HO box,” the NMRA standards cited will take care of that. If you are seeking box sizes that will work that are much closer to scale, I think that’s where the Kadee 78 or the Accurail scale box are in the right neighborhood. I’d also say that while Accurail’s coupler and the Sergeant are appealing, Kadees are so much the standard coupler of the vast majority of modelers, scale adherents or not, that any new box should accommodate them. Hard to imagine that the X2f was even mentioned in this thread. What an enormous error in judgment those couplers were! Schuyler From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:43 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General John In HO scale the closest-to-scale-width pocket that I'm aware, available as a detail part, is the Accurail "semi-scale" coupler pocket. It only accepts Accurail's coupler, which definitely limits the appeal. Other attempts to produce Kadee-compatible detail parts are from Moloco and Details West. These will accept the Kadee Whisker couplers as well as Sergent couplers, which are the most realistic HO couplers and which operate in a very similar manner to prototype couplers, using a ball & magnet in place of a pin & lifting lever. The Kadee 262 is a nice part, with a slight flare at the end, and is designed for the Kadee Whisker couplers only. Finally Railyard Models produced near-to-scale pockets for his resin freight car kits, which accept the Kadee #78 shank semi-scale couplers. The Kadee #78 itself originally was designed for their PS-1 box car and has a clumsy box, but Kadee later sold the #78 couplers in bulk by themselves without the box. Tim O'Connor
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Re: early model of PFE R40-26
Bill Welch
Scott the Accurail "Sliding Flush Door" model represents the FGE/WFE/BRE group of cars. Their hinged door reefer is a Western Fruit car only.
Bill Welch |
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Re: early model of PFE R40-26
Schleigh Mike
You have described the old Revell offering dating from about 1957. I suggest it is just a novelty at this time. Considering the good job they did on plastic model airplanes, their adventure into HO models was quite different. Their gondola was useful as were some of the buildings. Happy New Year!! Mike Schleigh On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 6:25 PM, "blindog@... [STMFC]" wrote: In my heap of stuff I have an old HO body shell molded in yellow plastic that doesn't appear to have ever had any paint or lettering on it. It is a 40-foot ice reefer with a sliding plug door. I set it aside years ago because I thought it might be useful to make an SFRD plug door reefer, perhaps class Rr-48 or so. The shell has the floor molded into the body and a separate roof that, to put it nicely, sucks. The eaves are about a foot thick and the diagonal panels run the wrong way, not an uncommon error, unfortunately.
It appears to be a model of a PFE R40-26, because it is very close to the drawings of said car in the '53 Cyc. (The diagonal panel roof is rendered correctly in those drawings, so the toolmaker was just an idiot.) The sides have the double row of rivets that I think of as an FGE characteristic. The ends are a little better than the roof, but this one is so old the brake wheel is molded onto the end, looking more like the intake for a turbine. There is no manufacturer cast into the bottom. Can't say I've ever seen one of these before, and I don't have Tony Thompson's PFE articles handy (RMC late '80s, if memory serves). Can anyone ID this model? It's a different prototype from the Accurail "40-foot steel reefer" with a sliding plug door. The Accurail is taller for one thing. Speaking of which, is there a close prototype for the Accurail? Looks like I could put the sides from the ancient model onto the Accurail sub-body to make a decent R40-26. It would add some variety to a mid-50s to 1970 layout. How late did R40-26s run? Thanks and Happy New Year everyone! Scott Chatfield |
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Re: early model of PFE R40-26
Richard Townsend
Sounds like it might be a Revell model from the 1950s. If so, it is too short (in height, not length) by about that foot of roof eave to accurately model a R-40-26. I took two once and made a B&M milk reefer many years ago, but that was all I could come up with for that height. Maybe others have other suggestions. I have several of them in my junk box waiting for a plausible prototype.
As for splicing them onto the Accurail body, I think the height will trip you up.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: blindog@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Wed, Dec 31, 2014 3:25 pm Subject: [STMFC] early model of PFE R40-26 In my heap of stuff I have an old HO body shell molded in yellow plastic that doesn't appear to have ever had any paint or lettering on it. It is a 40-foot ice reefer with a sliding plug door. I set it aside years ago because I thought it might be useful to make an SFRD plug door reefer, perhaps class Rr-48 or so. The shell has the floor molded into the body and a separate roof that, to put it nicely, sucks. The eaves are about a foot thick and the diagonal panels run the wrong way, not an uncommon error, unfortunately.
It appears to be a model of a PFE R40-26, because it is very close to the drawings of said car in the '53 Cyc. (The diagonal panel roof is rendered correctly in those drawings, so the toolmaker was just an idiot.) The sides have the double row of rivets that I think of as an FGE characteristic. The ends are a little better than the roof, but this one is so old the brake wheel is molded onto the end, looking more like the intake for a turbine. There is no manufacturer cast into the bottom. Can't say I've ever seen one of these before, and I don't have Tony Thompson's PFE articles handy (RMC late '80s, if memory serves). Can anyone ID this model? It's a different prototype from the Accurail "40-foot steel reefer" with a sliding plug door. The Accurail is taller for one thing. Speaking of which, is there a close prototype for the Accurail? Looks like I could put the sides from the ancient model onto the Accurail sub-body to make a decent R40-26. It would add some variety to a mid-50s to 1970 layout. How late did R40-26s run? Thanks and Happy New Year everyone! Scott Chatfield |
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
Carl Gustafson
On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 01:42:50PM -0500, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
JohnWhat about the Sergent Engineering scale width boxes? Not strictly Kaydee compatible, but narrower. Carl "Corporal Engineering" Gustafson |
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early model of PFE R40-26
D. Scott Chatfield
In my heap of stuff I have an old HO body shell molded in yellow plastic that doesn't appear to have ever had any paint or lettering on it. It is a 40-foot ice reefer with a sliding plug door. I set it aside years ago because I thought it might be useful to make an SFRD plug door reefer, perhaps class Rr-48 or so. The shell has the floor molded into the body and a separate roof that, to put it nicely, sucks. The eaves are about a foot thick and the diagonal panels run the wrong way, not an uncommon error, unfortunately.
It appears to be a model of a PFE R40-26, because it is very close to the drawings of said car in the '53 Cyc. (The diagonal panel roof is rendered correctly in those drawings, so the toolmaker was just an idiot.) The sides have the double row of rivets that I think of as an FGE characteristic. The ends are a little better than the roof, but this one is so old the brake wheel is molded onto the end, looking more like the intake for a turbine. There is no manufacturer cast into the bottom. Can't say I've ever seen one of these before, and I don't have Tony Thompson's PFE articles handy (RMC late '80s, if memory serves). Can anyone ID this model? It's a different prototype from the Accurail "40-foot steel reefer" with a sliding plug door. The Accurail is taller for one thing. Speaking of which, is there a close prototype for the Accurail? Looks like I could put the sides from the ancient model onto the Accurail sub-body to make a decent R40-26. It would add some variety to a mid-50s to 1970 layout. How late did R40-26s run? Thanks and Happy New Year everyone! Scott Chatfield |
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
Schuyler Larrabee
One other thing to consider: with the advent of "whisker" couplers, which
don't need the bronze spring, the vertical dimension (realizing you asked about the width) of boxes has generally been reduced in recent production. The 242 is a perfect example of this. IMHO, however, they are objectionably wide. Schuyler From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 6:37 AM To: Group, POST :; Group, POST : Subject: [STMFC] (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General This info is requested for a detail part project I'm working on... Is there such a thing as a "common" dimensional WIDTH of draft gear pockets on models (both cast-on and add-on types)? Does the width of a Kadee # 232 draft gear box represent the 'norm', or do they vary widely and/or wildly? I know that a lot of the newer manufacturers over the last 10 years have taken to narrowing these boxes on their models, but this is an 'in general' question concerning the majority of models. The common, inner width between the side walls of the boxes is the dimension I am trying to nail down. Other Kadee draft gear boxes to consider are the # 234 and 242... as well as the # 262 for those who use the narrower boxes. John Degnan Scaler164@... |
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
Schuyler Larrabee
Kadee also sold 78’s assembled in the draft gear box. Regrettably (IMHO) they have dropped these from their line. I have one left, and have cut off most of the card that they were sold on, retaining only the bubble from the bubble pack, trying to save space in my coupler drawer.
The EXTERIOR dimension of the box is 0.245” wide, 0.148” deep, by 0.450 from the back of the coupler box face to the back end. The bottom side of the box has two longitudinal ribs, one either side, and the NET depth of the box exterior is 0.110”. The ribs are, therefore, 0.038” deep. The INTERIOR is approximately 0.060” deep, by 0.185” wide, by ~0.390 longitudinally. It’s hard to measure the interior side without disassembling the box, which I am loath to do.
These also had a small loop on the back of the box, because they were molded in a slippery black plastic, and really required two screws to keep in alignment.
I really liked these couplers and missed the announcement (if there was one) that they were being discontinued, or I’d have bought a LOT of them.
So if you are looking for the “Standard HO box,” the NMRA standards cited will take care of that. If you are seeking box sizes that will work that are much closer to scale, I think that’s where the Kadee 78 or the Accurail scale box are in the right neighborhood. I’d also say that while Accurail’s coupler and the Sergeant are appealing, Kadees are so much the standard coupler of the vast majority of modelers, scale adherents or not, that any new box should accommodate them.
Hard to imagine that the X2f was even mentioned in this thread. What an enormous error in judgment those couplers were!
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:43 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
John
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Re: Fw: LS&I Boxcar
Curt Fortenberry
I'm just the messenger, just forwarding the link. All I was really pointing out was an LS&I photo that was taken soon after delivery, is clean, and you can read the data. Curt Fortenberry |
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Re: Fw: LS&I Boxcar
Misc Clark
Curt, what makes you think the photo was taken in the Vancouver area? It looks to be part of a compendium of freight cars, not necessarily ones found in the Vancouver area... Clark ConeOn Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:23 PM, curtfortenberry@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Fw: LS&I Boxcar
Charles Hladik
Ben,
These may be some of the same people
that don't believe that their railroad should have any other road's rolling
stock. And don't even get me started on weathering.
Chuck Hladik
In a message dated 12/31/2014 12:48:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
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Re: Working with etched parts
Charles Hladik
Reckon I'm not that smart, I stapled
mine on and am still dumb enough to try to stand up. Luckily, I usually don't
get all the way up.
Happy New Year,
Chuck Hladik
In a message dated 12/31/2014 1:20:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:
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Re: Photo of T&P plug door insulated box car
Thomas Baker
Group,
In 1953 or 1954 the T&P rebuilt two single-sheathed box cars into plug door insulated box cars. They painted both cars swamp holly orange and affixed the T&P medallion in full color to the right side of the car. I have been seeking a photo of this car but have had no success. Does anyone on the list have a photo to share or know of a supplier who may have one to purchase?
Tom Baker
From: STMFC@... on behalf of Andy Sperandeo asperandeo@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:20 PM
To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Working with etched parts Hi Chuck,
If I forget to detach the apron before standing, the Velcro just peels off without disturbing the top of the bench. Anything left in my lap is lost, of course,
but let's hope I've already taken care of that. Usually this is no problem, and I do unhook myself before I try to leave.
Happy New Year,
Andy
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
And like many things NMRA, utterly out of date, and not even close to scale. Tim O'Connor The NMRA established a “recommended practice� for coupler pockets in HO scale. This is their RP-22. |
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Re: (HO) Draft Gear Pockets... In General
John
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
In HO scale the closest-to-scale-width pocket that I'm aware, available as a detail part, is the Accurail "semi-scale" coupler pocket. It only accepts Accurail's coupler, which definitely limits the appeal. Other attempts to produce Kadee-compatible detail parts are from Moloco and Details West. These will accept the Kadee Whisker couplers as well as Sergent couplers, which are the most realistic HO couplers and which operate in a very similar manner to prototype couplers, using a ball & magnet in place of a pin & lifting lever. The Kadee 262 is a nice part, with a slight flare at the end, and is designed for the Kadee Whisker couplers only. Finally Railyard Models produced near-to-scale pockets for his resin freight car kits, which accept the Kadee #78 shank semi-scale couplers. The Kadee #78 itself originally was designed for their PS-1 box car and has a clumsy box, but Kadee later sold the #78 couplers in bulk by themselves without the box. Tim O'Connor This info is requested for a detail part project I'm working on... |
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Re: Fw: LS&I Boxcar
I've seen a published photo of a brand new LS&I PS-1 box car on the SP's San Diego & Arizona Eastern line. General purpose box cars went everywhere, as a general rule. Tim O'Connor From a post on the yooperrails group, a link to a shot of a new fresh LS&I PS-1 boxcar. |
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Re: Working with etched parts
Andy Sperandeo
Hi Chuck, If I forget to detach the apron before standing, the Velcro just peels off without disturbing the top of the bench. Anything left in my lap is lost, of course, but let's hope I've already taken care of that. Usually this is no problem, and I do unhook myself before I try to leave. Happy New Year, Andy |
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