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Re: Trends in model paints. Was: Great Northern Omaha Orange
william darnaby
I guess to fill the void left by Floquil, Motrak Models is offering several black shades, white and earth tones in Scalecoat II flat for weathering purposes and general painting. Scalecoat blended these flat finish paints specifically for Motrak and the bottles are labeled as such. I picked up a bottle of each at Naperville but have not had an opportunity to experiment with them. I saw that he had them at Train Fest and presume that he will bring them to Cocoa.
Bill Darnaby
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Re: Micro Mask
Schuyler Larrabee
That’s not a bad idea, Chuck. I was just reading Denny’s plaint, and I am wondering if my success with MM is due to my not trying to stretch it out and use less, when more works, maybe, better. Better in the sense of the MM sticking together more and being easier to pull off, than a thin film of it would be. I have a tendency to lay it on thick.
When there is something I can do in modeling relatively casually and non-obsessively (Me? Obsess?) I tend to let it go.
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:26 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Micro Mask
Yes, the old tender I used for my test was aged flat paint and possibly not very clean. But then the caboose I plan to overspray and weather is also not freshly painted and is quite flat. Perhaps I should wash and use Future before masking? It wouldn't matter to the end result as the glossy Future would get covered with the overspray weathering. Chuck Peck
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:12 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Chuck, not sure why you are not getting the lift-off, but I have used Micro-Mask multiple times with great success. As Tim O’C wrote, there are situations where the line of color separation is simply too complex to accomplish with tape, and I generally find I will end up with better results with masking and spraying, than using a brush to detail the edges.
I take it from your description that the “old tender” was already painted? My work has been over paint, but generally new paint. Perhaps your original base coat was . . . weathered? Dirty? A very flat coat of paint (vs. glossy)? I suspect any of those conditions might play a role.
Schuyler
I could use some pointers on using Microscale Micro Mask. I had in mind to use it to protect already installed caboose windows. To be cautious with a product new to me, I first tried it on the side of an old tender. In one area I did a double coat and in another I did a single coat. Then did a quick spray from a rattle can of primer. Neither area seems to want to release from the base coat. I tried a couple of different tapes and got some partial pickup of the paint but not a clean peel off like I expected. Somehow I had thought this would be something like rubber cement but with a water base. A clean easy peel off. Do I need some sort of surface prep? Could the product get old? Or just give up and start cutting masking tape? Any suggestions? Chuck Peck Gainesville FL
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Re: Micro Mask
I tried scrubbing the test tender with a toothbrush under running water. I remove the Micro Mask but also a significant portion of the non masked overspray. No clear dividing line between the masked and non-masked areas at all. Perhaps this is one of those "Your mileage may vary." products. Chuck Peck On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton smokeandsteam@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Micro Mask
Andy
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For journal ends (and other uses) I use small bits of poster putty. Easy to use, and re-use over and over. https://tw-projects.s3.amazonaws.com/twduckbrand/prod/images/products/900569611f4c4bede4a927d2bda7a60015e5f86f.jpg Tim O' I use Micro Mask all the time, BUT I mainly use it to protect the pointed journal ends of wheelset axles when I airbrush them. I also use it for such things as piston rods and some crosshead guides on steam locomotives. In those applications it works very well, and I never have any trouble removing it. I can't remember using it on a detail part with a complex shape. |
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Trends in model paints (UNCLASSIFIED)
I included this link in the first post -- it explains the different
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paint products in detail. Vallejo also makes other products besides paint. http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-paints/faqs/3 My LHS has ONE type of Vallejo paint. Have not idea which one it is. The stuff is practically as thick as tar, but when thinned with diH20, airbrushes as nicely as most other acrylics. I have gotten excellent finishes with this paint, although the need to thin it extensively has kept me from using it when I had alternatives. |
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Re: Micro Mask
Andy Sperandeo
Hi Denny, I use Micro Mask all the time, BUT I mainly use it to protect the pointed journal ends of wheelset axles when I airbrush them. I also use it for such things as piston rods and some crosshead guides on steam locomotives. In those applications it works very well, and I never have any trouble removing it. I can't remember using it on a detail part with a complex shape. So long, Andy |
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Trends in model paints (UNCLASSIFIED)
Tim,
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My LHS has ONE type of Vallejo paint. Have not idea which one it is. The stuff is practically as thick as tar, but when thinned with diH20, airbrushes as nicely as most other acrylics. I have gotten excellent finishes with this paint, although the need to thin it extensively has kept me from using it when I had alternatives. Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, AL On Nov 12, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote: |
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Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: Trends in model paints (UNCLASSIFIED)
Elden, perhaps you were not listening :-\ Vallejo makes FOUR (4) different
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TYPES of paint. Two types are for airbrushing, and two are for brush painting. Each type has its own set of colors. Looking at military models painted (airbrushed) with them, I get the idea they may be very good for weathering, structures, etc. Tim O' I agree with Jack; they are very good for brush-painting figures and landscaping elements, but I have not found them good for painting RR cars, or vehicles. The paint is rather "thick", which is not a problem on a person or fireplug, but tends to conceal shallow detail, which I do not like. You can, of course, thin them, but I have found that does not eliminate the thickness of the paint when applied or dry. They do have a really extensive range of colors, which may be useful to you when trying to get some shade you cannot get from the other lines, so you may find use for them in other applications, like dry-brushing or painting an odd colored roof, or something. |
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Announcement: Signature Press Winter Sale
Tony Thompson
Signature Press has begun our first Winter Sale on slower-moving titles, 35% discount if you buy direct. To see which titles and to order securely online, you may visit our web site at www.signaturepress.com . The sale runs until Dec. 31, but to ensure Christmas delivery, we recommend ordering by December 1.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: Trends in model paints (UNCLASSIFIED)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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Caveats: NONE Guys; I agree with Jack; they are very good for brush-painting figures and landscaping elements, but I have not found them good for painting RR cars, or vehicles. The paint is rather "thick", which is not a problem on a person or fireplug, but tends to conceal shallow detail, which I do not like. You can, of course, thin them, but I have found that does not eliminate the thickness of the paint when applied or dry. They do have a really extensive range of colors, which may be useful to you when trying to get some shade you cannot get from the other lines, so you may find use for them in other applications, like dry-brushing or painting an odd colored roof, or something. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:46 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] Re: Trends in model paints Yes, Vallejo paints are great for brush painting figures, details, etc. They dry relatively quickly, cover perfectly, and leave no brush marks. After I bought my first set of Vallejo paints, I threw out all of my Testors and other bottles I used for figure painting. I haven't tried the air brush line primarily since I, like Denny, prefer Floquil and also because I can't mix paints to match a color. Mix up a boxcar red from Vallejo Air? No a chance of getting it right... Jack Burgess From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:35 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Trends in model paints Denny Anspach wrote > It has been interesting to me, and perhaps instructive, to observe the current > renaissance of solvent-based model paints vs. the acrylics that not too long ago > were predicted Denny there has been a lengthy thread on the Sergent couplers group about Vallejo paints -- they make 4 different types of water-based acrylic paints (including TWO lines that are intended for brush painting). Folks are raving about how good these paints are. I have not tried any b ut I think I will try a bottle of the brush-on just to see how it works. The paints are made in Spain and are not specific to railroads. One line of the paint ("Premium") is made from a polyurethane-acrylic resin! http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-paints/faqs/3 Tim O'Connor Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE |
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Re: Micro Mask
Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Isn't Micro Mask water soluble? If so a wet cloth, and perhaps a good soaking for the really tough spots should get rid of any shreds.
Aidrian What safe removal tricks can be offered by others that have had more experience with Micro Mask ? Denny |
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Re: Trends in model paints
Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Yes, Vallejo paints are great for brush painting figures, details, etc. They dry relatively quickly, cover perfectly, and leave no brush marks. After I bought my first set of Vallejo paints, I threw out all of my Testors and other bottles I used for figure painting. I haven't tried the air brush line primarily since I, like Denny, prefer Floquil and also because I can't mix paints to match a color. Mix up a boxcar red from Vallejo Air? No a chance of getting it right...
Jack Burgess
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:35 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Trends in model paints
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Re: Trends in model paints
Denny Anspach wrote
> It has been interesting to me, and perhaps instructive, to observe the current > renaissance of solvent-based model paints vs. the acrylics that not too long ago > were predicted Denny there has been a lengthy thread on the Sergent couplers group about Vallejo paints -- they make 4 different types of water-based acrylic paints (including TWO lines that are intended for brush painting). Folks are raving about how good these paints are. I have not tried any but I think I will try a bottle of the brush-on just to see how it works. The paints are made in Spain and are not specific to railroads. One line of the paint ("Premium") is made from a polyurethane-acrylic resin! http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-paints/faqs/3 Tim O'Connor |
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Trends in model paints. Was: Great Northern Omaha Orange
Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
It has been interesting to me, and perhaps instructive, to observe the current renaissance of solvent-based model paints vs. the acrylics that not too long ago were predicted, if not advocated to take over our world by the predominant model press and a lot of modelers (“Get On Board!") I never made the change, solely on the grounds that I was not going to personally hazard a lifetime’s accumulated skills, comfort, and experience in favor of having to learn an entirely new skill set with new equipment.
Currently, I still rely upon my cache of accumulated Floquil paints, including not a few from the square bottle era. Their alterations in color hue over the years has been frustrating (yes), but perhaps the changes are no more so than the real time practices of the prototype railroad painters whose work we so diligently attempt to emulate and copy. I really have appreciated the Floquil’s covering ability, and their flat finish- a flatness hard to replicate with DullCote. This said Accupaint and ScaleCoat I have been far more forgiving paints for me than Floquil, and so far, Tru Color has made for me the gift of some very fine finishes. I am also moving more into other model paints such as Tamaya, which I am also finding covers very well and is pretty forgiving. I note that Tru Color is now moving into the flat finishes, not surprisingly to fill the vacuum left by Floquil’s demise. Ditto for Model Master (easy because of Testor ownership). Note again that the owners of Tru Color has related to me that they purchased the paint formulae, etc. from Accuaint’s manufacturer, George Bishop, and if I heard correctly, the present TriColor is of the same formula. On occasion, I also still use -when needed- ancient SUPER RR lacquer colors (read: automotive-based paint from the ’50’s and ’40’s) whose deep and rich colors reflect beautifully the lead content that made such older paints so very rich. I also have a long string custom painted multicolor brass passenger cars expertly painted with some new old-stock automotive lacquer that is simply…. stunning. The threads on useful solvents and formulation is always interesting and not-infrequently very much instructive. I personally use automotive lacquer thinner for all cleaning purposes, and Floquil thinning. However, I bite the bullet and purchase cans/bottles of the specific thinning agents that each manufacturer recommends for his/hers particular paints: cautionary money very well spent relative to the time and trouble that I put into model finishing. I would hope that this post would not prompt a host of safety and environmental cautions, all of which I am very much aware, do not minimize, and of which I exercise reasonable caution; but also the use of which of which I place on the balance of the pleasures of my everyday life (I do not eat all cold food, or take colds showers because I am fearful of potential household fires or gas fumes; nor not cross the street because of the fear of being hit). I already have useful defenses against these hazards, not excluding common sense!). Despite several attempts in the past, I still do NOT understand the circumstances why one would choose Scalecoat I over Scalecoat II, the latter seemingly more useful and with shorter drying times? I have used SC I for years and love it, especially on brass, but- why would not SC II do the same thing with less hassle? H-mmm? Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento |
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Re: Micro Mask
Yes, the old tender I used for my test was aged flat paint and possibly not very clean. But then the caboose I plan to overspray and weather is also not freshly painted and is quite flat. Perhaps I should wash and use Future before masking? It wouldn't matter to the end result as the glossy Future would get covered with the overspray weathering. Chuck Peck On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:12 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Micro Mask
Yes, there is rubber cement and I have used it in the past although that bottle is now aged beyond use. But I was concerned about the effect of the rubber cement solvent attacking both the clear plastic window and the painted frame around the window. Thus I thought the Micro Mask might be a similar product but with a safer base, being that it says to clean brush with water. Chuck Peck On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Micro Mask
Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
This thread has been of considerable interest to me inasmuch as to date I have only had fair success with Micro Mask, difficulties arising from efforts at safe removal from around complex parts. The trick with masking tape is welcome news, the only caveat being that perhaps it should be limited to low tack tapes such as drafting tape. I have spent hours (hours!) removing Micro Mask from around brass steam locomotive detailing, leading me to believe that perhaps I should not use it around undercut 3D parts? (of course, painstakingly taping the same parts might result in the same time expenditure).
What safe removal tricks can be offered by others that have had more experience with Micro Mask ? Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento |
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Re: IM 1958 coupler pocket
Clark Propst
Yes, I also scraped the rivet lines off the rood and scratch built new
latch mechanisms and added the correct brake wheel of course. It’s decals with
the Milwaukee billboard scheme.
I’ve actually over built my roster! Here’s what I’ve added since
Naperville.
I thought
it would take a lot longer to finish the roster. But, we’ve had swap meets/train
shows every weekend.
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa |
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Re: Micro Mask
Schuyler Larrabee
Chuck, not sure why you are not getting the lift-off, but I have used Micro-Mask multiple times with great success. As Tim O’C wrote, there are situations where the line of color separation is simply too complex to accomplish with tape, and I generally find I will end up with better results with masking and spraying, than using a brush to detail the edges.
I take it from your description that the “old tender” was already painted? My work has been over paint, but generally new paint. Perhaps your original base coat was . . . weathered? Dirty? A very flat coat of paint (vs. glossy)? I suspect any of those conditions might play a role.
Schuyler
I could use some pointers on using Microscale Micro Mask. I had in mind to use it to protect already installed caboose windows. To be cautious with a product new to me, I first tried it on the side of an old tender. In one area I did a double coat and in another I did a single coat. Then did a quick spray from a rattle can of primer. Neither area seems to want to release from the base coat. I tried a couple of different tapes and got some partial pickup of the paint but not a clean peel off like I expected. Somehow I had thought this would be something like rubber cement but with a water base. A clean easy peel off. Do I need some sort of surface prep? Could the product get old? Or just give up and start cutting masking tape? Any suggestions? Chuck Peck Gainesville FL |
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Re: NYC (MDT) Boxcars ?? Lot 852 -B
If this web site is correct then 852-B cars were exactly the same dimensionally
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as lot 815-B and 820-B box cars. http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/boxcars.htm Tim O'Connor Have you tried the NYC Historical Society???? What photos they have are filed by Lot Number |
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