Date   

Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Rio Grande Ltd <rgmodels@...>
 

I would guess it depends on the humidity where you live.

eric



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Burgess
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2014 1:22 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

 
I have one here in California (because you are supposed to have one) but there never has been water in it. Of course, I didn't have one for a couple decades and never had a problem with water messing up a paint job back then either...
Jack Burgess


Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Bill--I think you have received good, sound advice. However, here is my experience in Pensacola. In 1990 thieves stole my ancient 5 gallon compressor which did pump water; they also took the hose mounted moisture trap/pressure regulator. When I bought a new compressor of similar size, I thought, "Let's see what happens without a trap." The pressure regulator is mounted on the compressor. I am still looking for the first water drop after many, many paint jobs. I cannot account for why the old compressor pumped water and this one does not.

I like your ideas of quick disconnects and a second hose. I have a hose on each of my airbrushes so I do not have to hold the weight of a QD on the brush.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Scott H. Haycock
 

Bill,

Remember Murphy's Law!

I live in the desert and I get moisture out of the bleed valves on my compressor. If you have the trap, why risk it?

I would run a hose from the compressor to the paint booth, and add the trap and pressure regulator, followed by the tee there. Then hook up your braided hoses right at the booth. This way, you could have all the controls at the booth, and you can put the noisy compressor elsewhere. 



Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

I currently use a "Campbell-Hausfeld" compressor w/a two gallon tank
to power my airbrush. Previous to this I had a Craftsman w/an even
larger tank and in both cases a moisture trap was attached between
the compressor and the airbrush's hose. Presumably there may states
in the Union w/higher humidity than Tennessee and Virginia but never
during the some 20 years of use in such environs do I ever remember
seeing any moisture in the trap or feeling any moisture when I have
bled the trap. OTOH, when I open the tank's valve to bleed it, I do
feel moisture on my fingers.

Recently, apparently overcome by fumes from Modelflex paint, I have
become quite unhinged and now find myself the owner of two new
Gravity Feed airbrushes to supplement my Siphon Feed Badger 155
Anthem. The same effects have caused me to accessorize wildly
including buying quick detach fittings for the airbrushes and a
second braided hose, although the quick detaches might seem to make
the second hose redundant. Still I like the idea. Among the
accessories was a T-Joint to connect both air hoses to my C-H. As I
proceeded cleaning up the Teflon tape from the current fittings to re-
arrange all of the plumbing and re-tape before screwing everything
together, I wondered is it really necessary to re-attach the moisture
trap? After all Florida's humidity, at least where I am, is trivial
compared to previous places, so what are the chances after all of
these years that the trap is actually going to capture any moisture.
I should add that never during these years have I ever seen any
evidence of moisture as I paint, so I am sure the trap is not letting
moisture escape through it.

As I thought about this in the shower this morning I wondered why no
moisture gets into the airline from the tank? Then it occurred to me
maybe it is the 100 PSI pressure in the tank holding the heavier-than-
air water against the sides of the tank, or some other mysterious
scientific fact that prevents moisture escaping into the airline.
Including the Moisture Trap in the plumbing means more places for air
to leak out but more important to me at least extends the plumbing
out from the compressor even more now with the T-Connecter and the
two hoses. Leaving the apparently redundant Moisture Trap off will
make for a more compact arrangement that appeals to me.

I am curious if anyone can think of a good reason why I should
include the Moisture Trap in the new plumbing arrangement?

Living dangerously!

Bill Welch



Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Douglas Harding
 

Simple answer, YES. Esp when using acrylic paint. Last thing you want is a big drop of water spitting out in the middle of a paint job, sending splatters everywhere. You say no water when you drain the trap, what about when you drain the tank? My compressor has a drain plug in the bottom. Always a good idea to drain the tank. Compressing air, heats air, causing moisture to gather. You need a moisture trap, even in dry climates.

Doug Harding from my phone


From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: ‎1/‎26/‎2014 3:51 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

 

Bill

Sod's Law says

If you do have one you'll never see any moisture in the trap; if you don't have one you'll wish you had one on the very last varnish coat of a very involved multicolour project.

I am inclined to think of a trap as cheap insurance - it can't hurt and might save a lot of grief one day

Aidrian


On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
 

I currently use a "Campbell-Hausfeld" compressor w/a two gallon tank
to power my airbrush. Previous to this I had a Craftsman w/an even
larger tank and in both cases a moisture trap was attached between
the compressor and the airbrush's hose. Presumably there may states
in the Union w/higher humidity than Tennessee and Virginia but never
during the some 20 years of use in such environs do I ever remember
seeing any moisture in the trap or feeling any moisture when I have
bled the trap. OTOH, when I open the tank's valve to bleed it, I do
feel moisture on my fingers.

Recently, apparently overcome by fumes from Modelflex paint, I have
become quite unhinged and now find myself the owner of two new
Gravity Feed airbrushes to supplement my Siphon Feed Badger 155
Anthem. The same effects have caused me to accessorize wildly
including buying quick detach fittings for the airbrushes and a
second braided hose, although the quick detaches might seem to make
the second hose redundant. Still I like the idea. Among the
accessories was a T-Joint to connect both air hoses to my C-H. As I
proceeded cleaning up the Teflon tape from the current fittings to re-
arrange all of the plumbing and re-tape before screwing everything
together, I wondered is it really necessary to re-attach the moisture
trap? After all Florida's humidity, at least where I am, is trivial
compared to previous places, so what are the chances after all of
these years that the trap is actually going to capture any moisture.
I should add that never during these years have I ever seen any
evidence of moisture as I paint, so I am sure the trap is not letting
moisture escape through it.

As I thought about this in the shower this morning I wondered why no
moisture gets into the airline from the tank? Then it occurred to me
maybe it is the 100 PSI pressure in the tank holding the heavier-than-
air water against the sides of the tank, or some other mysterious
scientific fact that prevents moisture escaping into the airline.
Including the Moisture Trap in the plumbing means more places for air
to leak out but more important to me at least extends the plumbing
out from the compressor even more now with the T-Connecter and the
two hoses. Leaving the apparently redundant Moisture Trap off will
make for a more compact arrangement that appeals to me.

I am curious if anyone can think of a good reason why I should
include the Moisture Trap in the new plumbing arrangement?

Living dangerously!

Bill Welch




--
Beer has no effect on concrete, but unless the concrete is specially treated the taste of the beer could be affected. (Military Engineering Vol XIV, Concrete, WO Code No 8626, 1952.
 
Army elastic bands in a temperate climate have a shelf life of 1 year but in a tropical climate it is only 12 months. (Manual of Army Ordnance Services Volume 1 Pamphlet No 2 Part 5 Appendix K, Army Code No. 60065-1, 1977).


[The entire original message is not included.]
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Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Bill

Sod's Law says

If you do have one you'll never see any moisture in the trap; if you don't have one you'll wish you had one on the very last varnish coat of a very involved multicolour project.

I am inclined to think of a trap as cheap insurance - it can't hurt and might save a lot of grief one day

Aidrian


On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
 

I currently use a "Campbell-Hausfeld" compressor w/a two gallon tank
to power my airbrush. Previous to this I had a Craftsman w/an even
larger tank and in both cases a moisture trap was attached between
the compressor and the airbrush's hose. Presumably there may states
in the Union w/higher humidity than Tennessee and Virginia but never
during the some 20 years of use in such environs do I ever remember
seeing any moisture in the trap or feeling any moisture when I have
bled the trap. OTOH, when I open the tank's valve to bleed it, I do
feel moisture on my fingers.

Recently, apparently overcome by fumes from Modelflex paint, I have
become quite unhinged and now find myself the owner of two new
Gravity Feed airbrushes to supplement my Siphon Feed Badger 155
Anthem. The same effects have caused me to accessorize wildly
including buying quick detach fittings for the airbrushes and a
second braided hose, although the quick detaches might seem to make
the second hose redundant. Still I like the idea. Among the
accessories was a T-Joint to connect both air hoses to my C-H. As I
proceeded cleaning up the Teflon tape from the current fittings to re-
arrange all of the plumbing and re-tape before screwing everything
together, I wondered is it really necessary to re-attach the moisture
trap? After all Florida's humidity, at least where I am, is trivial
compared to previous places, so what are the chances after all of
these years that the trap is actually going to capture any moisture.
I should add that never during these years have I ever seen any
evidence of moisture as I paint, so I am sure the trap is not letting
moisture escape through it.

As I thought about this in the shower this morning I wondered why no
moisture gets into the airline from the tank? Then it occurred to me
maybe it is the 100 PSI pressure in the tank holding the heavier-than-
air water against the sides of the tank, or some other mysterious
scientific fact that prevents moisture escaping into the airline.
Including the Moisture Trap in the plumbing means more places for air
to leak out but more important to me at least extends the plumbing
out from the compressor even more now with the T-Connecter and the
two hoses. Leaving the apparently redundant Moisture Trap off will
make for a more compact arrangement that appeals to me.

I am curious if anyone can think of a good reason why I should
include the Moisture Trap in the new plumbing arrangement?

Living dangerously!

Bill Welch




--
Beer has no effect on concrete, but unless the concrete is specially treated the taste of the beer could be affected. (Military Engineering Vol XIV, Concrete, WO Code No 8626, 1952.
 
Army elastic bands in a temperate climate have a shelf life of 1 year but in a tropical climate it is only 12 months. (Manual of Army Ordnance Services Volume 1 Pamphlet No 2 Part 5 Appendix K, Army Code No. 60065-1, 1977).


Re: Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

I have one here in California (because you are supposed to have one) but there never has been water in it. Of course, I didn't have one for a couple decades and never had a problem with water messing up a paint job back then either...

Jack Burgess


Are Moisture Traps Always Necessary?

Bill Welch
 

I currently use a "Campbell-Hausfeld" compressor w/a two gallon tank to power my airbrush. Previous to this I had a Craftsman w/an even larger tank and in both cases a moisture trap was attached between the compressor and the airbrush's hose. Presumably there may states in the Union w/higher humidity than Tennessee and Virginia but never during the some 20 years of use in such environs do I ever remember seeing any moisture in the trap or feeling any moisture when I have bled the trap. OTOH, when I open the tank's valve to bleed it, I do feel moisture on my fingers.

Recently, apparently overcome by fumes from Modelflex paint, I have become quite unhinged and now find myself the owner of two new Gravity Feed airbrushes to supplement my Siphon Feed Badger 155 Anthem. The same effects have caused me to accessorize wildly including buying quick detach fittings for the airbrushes and a second braided hose, although the quick detaches might seem to make the second hose redundant. Still I like the idea. Among the accessories was a T-Joint to connect both air hoses to my C-H. As I proceeded cleaning up the Teflon tape from the current fittings to re- arrange all of the plumbing and re-tape before screwing everything together, I wondered is it really necessary to re-attach the moisture trap? After all Florida's humidity, at least where I am, is trivial compared to previous places, so what are the chances after all of these years that the trap is actually going to capture any moisture. I should add that never during these years have I ever seen any evidence of moisture as I paint, so I am sure the trap is not letting moisture escape through it.

As I thought about this in the shower this morning I wondered why no moisture gets into the airline from the tank? Then it occurred to me maybe it is the 100 PSI pressure in the tank holding the heavier-than- air water against the sides of the tank, or some other mysterious scientific fact that prevents moisture escaping into the airline. Including the Moisture Trap in the plumbing means more places for air to leak out but more important to me at least extends the plumbing out from the compressor even more now with the T-Connecter and the two hoses. Leaving the apparently redundant Moisture Trap off will make for a more compact arrangement that appeals to me.

I am curious if anyone can think of a good reason why I should include the Moisture Trap in the new plumbing arrangement?

Living dangerously!

Bill Welch


SAL freight cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

Can anyone identify the builders of the following SAL drop bottom gondolas which still existed in 1939?
 
SAL 33250-33500 built 1905 later 93000-93274 G3
SAL 32750-37999 built 1906 later 92675-92924 G3
SAL 32251-32750 built 1907 later 92176-92674 G5
SAL 34000-34499 built 1907 later 93277-93798 G4
SAL 35000-35999 built 1907 later 93800-94773 G4
 
The choices seem to be Pressed Steel, Western Steel Car, South Baltimore, and maybe one prototype built by SAL.
SAL 34200 is supposed to be PSC, but that could also mean WSC&F.
 
Thanks,
Eric N.


GBW/KGBW 4801o4879

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

GBW/KGBW 4801o4879 appear to be Gla design hoppers acquired by 7-31. Does anyone have a origin for these? Built date is 1905, builder unknown.
 
Thanks,
Eric


C&PA 12199-12999

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

These were drop bottom gondola cars built in 1905 as United Coal 2000-2999. In about 1917-18, at least 788 became C&PA, apparently by simply adding a 1 in front of the old number. Of the original series, 2500-2999 were pretty definitely built by SSC. The first 500 may have been built by PSC or perhaps SSC. Does anyone have additional information? Only 28 remained in 7-31.
 
Thanks,
Eric N.


Re: Commercial and Cambria Coal Mining Companies

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

The Commercial and Cambria Coal Mining Glb cars are known from builder photos, so they are not the same as the ones that went to Lines West. Since these are not listed in the ORER, I can't even say how many there were. If the Railway Age annual order reports were PSC  in error instead of SSC, there would be 300 of them for a total of 1,000 Glb in service on the Pennsylvania east and west. However, it is a little troublesome that these orders are not mentioned on the SSC general arrangement drawings. The builders photos might have been of sample cars that were never delivered as such and the actual order went to PSC.
 
Eric N.
 
 

There is quite a bit of info on GLB hoppers in the "Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars" book by John Teichmoeller. In very brief summary: There were 700 of this class built in 1904 by SSC of Butler for PRR Lines West. Many were modernized over the years and served until 1936. 250 of the cars were converted into the GLE class of covered hoppers and lasted well after WW2. 

    Since these hoppers originally went West, it is relevant to know when they came back East. Since the Pennsylvania Lines West Of Pittsburgh And Erie (AKA Lines West) was abolished in 1920, the hoppers must have emigrated to Cresson and Tyrone sometime after that. The Teichmoeller book does not discuss that happenstance specifically but he does mention that the GLBs were a bit of a pain for maintenance folks because there were relatively few of them compared to the GLAs and H-21s. This led to the railroad to pooling them at certain locations. 

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Neubauer
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jan 25, 2014 10:42 am
Subject: [STMFC] Commercial and Cambria Coal Mining Companies



Both of these received Glb typ coal hoppers from Standard Steel in 1904. They were to be returned to Cresson and Tyrone, PA respectively. Can't find either in the ORERs. Same companies ordered cars from Pressed Steel Car in 1904. I suspect these should have been attributed to SSC, but without car number series, it's impossible to form a reasonable answer.
 
My question is, where did these fleets go? Surely the cars still existed in 1920.
 
Thanks,
Eric N.



Re: C&O gondola articles wanted

Sam Reynolds
 

I just wanted to say thank you to those on the list who responded to my request, and came through with copies of the articles.  It is helpful assistance like this that makes being a member of this group a pleasure.  Thanks again!

Sam Reynolds


Re: O Scale Ice platform

water.kresse@...
 

I've never seen a roof on deck in the photos of early-C&O or later mid-1930s thru 1950s) FGE-modified/Specified re-icing platforms used along the C&O or Pere Marquette lines.  I presume there is going to be an ice-house at the bottom of the ramp on the right.  I believe the monster Blue Island platform south of Chicago was double-decked.  Compression of length to be practical on a S- or O-scale home layout or a few modules is a necessary evil.

 

Al Kresse


From: fgexbill@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:37:23 AM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: O Scale Ice platform

I am curious what the intended prototype is?
 

 Bill Welch


Re: Commercial and Cambria Coal Mining Companies

Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
 

There is quite a bit of info on GLB hoppers in the "Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars" book by John Teichmoeller. In very brief summary: There were 700 of this class built in 1904 by SSC of Butler for PRR Lines West. Many were modernized over the years and served until 1936. 250 of the cars were converted into the GLE class of covered hoppers and lasted well after WW2. 
    Since these hoppers originally went West, it is relevant to know when they came back East. Since the Pennsylvania Lines West Of Pittsburgh And Erie (AKA Lines West) was abolished in 1920, the hoppers must have emigrated to Cresson and Tyrone sometime after that. The Teichmoeller book does not discuss that happenstance specifically but he does mention that the GLBs were a bit of a pain for maintenance folks because there were relatively few of them compared to the GLAs and H-21s. This led to the railroad to pooling them at certain locations. 

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Neubauer
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jan 25, 2014 10:42 am
Subject: [STMFC] Commercial and Cambria Coal Mining Companies



Both of these received Glb typ coal hoppers from Standard Steel in 1904. They were to be returned to Cresson and Tyrone, PA respectively. Can't find either in the ORERs. Same companies ordered cars from Pressed Steel Car in 1904. I suspect these should have been attributed to SSC, but without car number series, it's impossible to form a reasonable answer.
 
My question is, where did these fleets go? Surely the cars still existed in 1920.
 
Thanks,
Eric N.



Pressed Steel Car second hand mysteries

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

The following are listed as built by PSC in 1904 according to the ICC valuation reports:
 
C&L 950-994 acquired about 1916 later PRR 229950-299984 class Hcl-2 are 20'6" ore cars.
A&S 1600-1649 drop bottom gondolas acquired by 1912. Dimensions suggest PRR class Gsa design.
A&S 600-624 30' hopper cars acquired by 1912.
 
I am unable to connect these series with the former or original series, except for A&S 1600-1649 which could be former PRR. The dimensions of A&S 600-624 are similat to some LS&MS and GTW hoppers, but none have a 1904 date.
 
Any help on these would be appreciated.
Eric N.


Re: O Scale Ice platform

Bill Welch
 

I am curious what the intended prototype is?


Bill Welch


O Scale Ice platform

Bill Lane
 

My friend Al Castellani is considering making this ice platform in O Scale. http://www.lanestrains.com/O_Scale_Ice_Platform.htm We have been developing it in S Scale and the first pilot model is done and as shown.

 

Al is also considering making the C&O Stock car kit in O Scale http://www.eastwestrailservice.com No price is known at this time.

 

***Please contact Al directly **** with questions or to express interest in either of these 2 items. al@... 

 

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

 

See my layout progress at:

http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls 

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com 
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

 


Re: Freight car book

Dave Nelson
 

Of course one has to know about them too.

 

I ordered the gon book after reading your note.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith

 

Alas, the PRRT&HS has, in recent years, produced books on gondolas and flat cars.  Given that both types were fairly widely circulated around the United States, the sales of both of the books have been disappointing at best. BTW, if you did no know about these books, check them out (shameless plug!) at the PRRT&HS eStore at http://prrths.com/estore/index_estore.html


Regards

Bruce
Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


Re: update for RPC article

Benjamin Hom
 

Ed Mines wrote:
"I'd like to see an update of the RPC article which gave recommendations for specific  shades of box car red for individual railroads using the newer brands  of paint

Also like to an article in RMC about using all the newer brands of paint."

There's nothing keeping YOU from helping out...


Ben Hom


Re: For Sale PFE Reefer projects

Bill McCoy
 

The cars are sold. Thanks for looking.


Bill McCoy

73841 - 73860 of 195468