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Re: Fantasy Land
Charlie Vlk
Richard-
Your thoughts are on target and well-reasoned.
But flawed in one regard…..they are based on reason.
If reason ruled the Model Railroad Marketplace there would be no models of things like GG1s and Big Boys. We would have had 50 Ft 1 ½ door single sheathed box cars of various prototypes (which roads which roamed the rails that most people model and therefore “need”) . More “famous” locomotives which were limited to a few divisions of their one owner perversely still sell like hotcakes even though very few people model PRR Catenary or UP Sherman Hill.
Using the logic of what cars appeared in many railroad’s freight train wheel reports there are still many holes in the available prototypes….especially in flat cars and tank cars.
A new model will always bring comments of “well, they shouda done…. instead” but commercial success for production models is more a function of a well-executed model that is very reasonably correct for at least one prototype (given the differences in sub-lots and changes in hardware for any given car) and that works as close stand-ins for multiple paint jobs and other railroads.
Beyond that you are into the very short run resin kit and (coming) rapid prototype realm.
Charlie Vlk Railroad Model Resources
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Re: Lead shot in flat cars
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 10/28/2013 6:40 AM, Andy Carlson
wrote:
depleted U you will notice it is nearly the same as elemental tungsten Checked the site and the cheapest tungsten is $3.25 an ounce ($52 a pound). Great for N scale and good for HO if you need more space for other items, like sound decoders. Or if there is a loco pulling contest someplace and you just have to win! :-D -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S
Frank Gendernalik
To add more thoughts, while slightly outside of the STMFC, I started at Ford's Wayne (Mich) Assembly Plant in 1962 right out of college. I worked up front in the controllers office so I wasn't out back in the plant every day but I was out there often enough. Wayne built what we called called big Ford/big Mercury. The vehicles left by convoy (haulaway) or rail. Rail loading was on open bi-levels. I don't have numbers to support me, but I'd guess that slightly more than half of the production left via convoy. Wayne was served only by NYC. (About a football field east was the C&O/PM Plymouth/Toledo main line.) Sometime, maybe 1964, Ford reactivated and retooled the old station wagon body plant immediately to the west and began building the original Bronco. This plant was also served exclusively by NYC. The Bronco Plant was renamed Michigan Truck. Finished vehicles were driven next door to Wayne Assembly's convoy and rail yards and merged with loads of Fords and Mercurys. I bid Wayne a fond farewell in 1965 for greener (Ford) pastures in Dearborn. Ford had 2 other Assembly Plants in the area--Dearborn Assembly (in the Rouge complex), which built Fairlanes, and Wixom Assembly, which built Lincolns and T'Birds at that time. Dearborn Assembly was served by DT&I via the Ford Railroad but actually both NYC and C&O could also access the Rouge yard. Detroit Terminal/Wabash/D&TSL accessed the Rouge via the other railroads through interchanges immediately adjacent to the Rouge. Wixom Assembly was served exclusively by C&O/PM. My recollection was that for all of the Ford Assembly Plants in the Detroit area, open bi-levels were the primary rail car for finished vehicles in the early/mid 1960's. Ford also had many component plants in the area. Add in the other auto companys' (GM and Chrysler) many Assembly Plants as well as component Plants in the area and that's a whole lot of freight cars. (To the railroads above add GTW in the mix.) That's a story for another day. Frank Gendernalik Northville, MI On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:35 AM,
"water.kresse@..." wrote: Guy,
Thanks for the update and re-enlightenment . . as usual. One forgets a lot since my 2009 article studies.
Do we have pix of those pre-WW2 truck trailer rigs for auto shipping?
I "believe" from a GM-glasses view point that the number of regional auto assembly plants peaked in 1960-70 era and shipping distances became longer. All Vegas being built in a single plant . . . on a single floor level. WW1 era three-four story assembly plants were getting long in the tooth. Clearance plates were getting larger and had TTX pooling of cars.
I have a set of Oct 1960 pix of C&O and Ford transportation execs double-checking proposed tri-level (open sides and tops) rail car auto-ramps to four-car trailer and tractor rig loading conditions at Wixom, Michigan. By 1961 all-C&O merchandise dept ads just had to have a tri-level pix in it.
Al
From: guycwilber@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:42:16 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S Al wrote: I believe the C&O had 50-ft staggered side with end-door auto-rack box cars thru 1956. Pontiac was using highway truck-trailers in 1950. C&O first loaded tri-levels at Wixom, MI, in Oct 1960. Al, The C&O rostered approximately 200 50' auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders thru 1960. None of the C&O, or inherited PM cars, fitted with loaders had end doors at that time. Pontiac was shipping autos via trucks by the early 1920's as were most manufacturers, though they still utilized rail service from Pontiac, Michigan, for long haul deliveries (typically more than 400 miles). Assembly plants located at; Linden, NJ., Doraville, Ga., Kansas City, Mo., Los Angeles, Ca., and Wilmington, Del., were shipping autos by both rail and truck into the 1950's as well. The deliveries from Pontiac's total production (via rail) averaged around 25% from Pontiac and less than 14% from the assembly plants by the early 1950's. Deliveries from the assembly plants by rail were usually within a 300 to 400 mile range. Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada
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metal tank cars
The posts about the new Tangent tank car and other tank car models prompted me to think about the Globe and Athearn metal tank cars from the forties and fifties. I still have the Union 76 tank car that I built as a teenager. I have an Athearn three-dome SHPX tank car on my circa-1953 layout. I have a second three-dome car that is in need of restoration - something I don't think I will do. I regret selling the Globe two-dome tank cars that I had a few years ago. Have not found any more anywhere. HO needs a two-dome tank car. The metal box cars and reefers were interesting too. I still have the NYC Pacemaker box car that I built as a teen modeler. Hugh T. Guillaume
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Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S
water.kresse@...
Guy,
Thanks for the update and re-enlightenment . . as usual. One forgets a lot since my 2009 article studies.
Do we have pix of those pre-WW2 truck trailer rigs for auto shipping?
I "believe" from a GM-glasses view point that the number of regional auto assembly plants peaked in 1960-70 era and shipping distances became longer. All Vegas being built in a single plant . . . on a single floor level. WW1 era three-four story assembly plants were getting long in the tooth. Clearance plates were getting larger and had TTX pooling of cars.
I have a set of Oct 1960 pix of C&O and Ford transportation execs double-checking proposed tri-level (open sides and tops) rail car auto-ramps to four-car trailer and tractor rig loading conditions at Wixom, Michigan. By 1961 all-C&O merchandise dept ads just had to have a tri-level pix in it.
Al
From: guycwilber@...
To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:42:16 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S Al wrote: I believe the C&O had 50-ft staggered side with end-door auto-rack box cars thru 1956. Pontiac was using highway truck-trailers in 1950. C&O first loaded tri-levels at Wixom, MI, in Oct 1960. Al, The C&O rostered approximately 200 50' auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders thru 1960. None of the C&O, or inherited PM cars, fitted with loaders had end doors at that time. Pontiac was shipping autos via trucks by the early 1920's as were most manufacturers, though they still utilized rail service from Pontiac, Michigan, for long haul deliveries (typically more than 400 miles). Assembly plants located at; Linden, NJ., Doraville, Ga., Kansas City, Mo., Los Angeles, Ca., and Wilmington, Del., were shipping autos by both rail and truck into the 1950's as well. The deliveries from Pontiac's total production (via rail) averaged around 25% from Pontiac and less than 14% from the assembly plants by the early 1950's. Deliveries from the assembly plants by rail were usually within a 300 to 400 mile range. Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada
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Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?
destorzek@...
---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote: I popped for a Tichy AB brake kit.
Alex Schneider Greg Martin said... Bill,
Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use the ACCURAIL® for sure. Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and it is surely a time saver.
The Accurail set will only give you the brake cylinder, along with rods and levers. You still need the reservoir and AB valve, and the Tichy parts are as good as any. Dennis
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Lead shot in flat cars
Andy Carlson
Hello Greg- If you look up specific gravity (relative densities of elements) for depleted U you will notice it is nearly the same as elemental tungsten, and not much more dense than tungsten carbide (which is easily found as machine shop waste). I have purchased tungsten weights from the pinewood derby supplier <maximum-velocity.com>. M-V sells tungsten in many geometric shapes, and also in powder, shot and a matrix of tungsten in epoxy. M-V offers supplies to ultra-competitive fathers' wishing to have their Boy Scout kid demolish the fatherless Scouts. M-V has online sales several times a year. Even on sale, this stuff isn't cheap, but with locomotives needing some ballast help you would have to go to Platinum or Osmium to get denser material without a half-life. -Andy Carlson
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Re: double sheathed & single sheathed - most common in the early 1950s???
Benjamin Scanlon
The only southeastern lines that got USRA SS box cars were the AB&A,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
later absorbed by the ACL, and the GA. The GA cars were rebuilt in the '30s with steel sheathing. the ACL cars were rebuilt with steel bodies in the '40s except for a few that went second hand to the Columbia, Newbury & Laurens, where they survived into the mid-'50s. Hi, an old thread from 2005. I am wondering if the AB&A (or would it have been AB&C by that time?) USRA boxcars that went from ACL to the CN&L (I think it is the Columbia, Newberry and Laurens) were the CN&L series 2525-2549? Their series 2500-2524 look similar to a USRA s/s but have Z trusses rather than the hat section truss. http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/925270/ee238d17-5dd6-4287-a8ac-5e0b1d8a9c92-A28732.jpg At the same time, CN&L doesn't show up as an owner in the 'USRA s/s boxcars against time' spreadsheet in our files section. Regards, Benjamin S.
---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:
On Jun 22, 2005, at 2:45 AM, matthewjstrickland wrote: > i understand that double sheathed USRA were more common place thanThe number of cars originally built was very close; 25,000 for single sheathed, 24,500 for double sheathed (this, of course, does not include clones built in the '20s after the USRA relinquished control of the RRs). By the early '50s, however, more of the single sheathed cars were still in service in more or less original form. The all wood bodies of the double sheathed cars deteriorated faster than the steel-framed bodies on the SS cars, so more of them were rebuilt or retired in the 1930s and '40s. The only southeastern lines that got USRA SS box cars were the AB&A, later absorbed by the ACL, and the GA. The GA cars were rebuilt in the '30s with steel sheathing. the ACL cars were rebuilt with steel bodies in the '40s except for a few that went second hand to the Columbia, Newbury & Laurens, where they survived into the mid-'50s. As for USRA 40T double sheathed box cars, the ACL got 950 of them and later inherited another 300 when it acquired the C&WC, but all of those cars were rebuilt in the '40s and no other SE RR had them. As suggested by Tim Gilbert, it would be hard to justify more than one or two USRA cars of either type on a model RR representing an early '50s southeastern prototype. Foreign roads that still had USRA SS 50T box cars in service that might have turned up in interchange included Ann Arbor, Maine Central, MILW, Reading, and RF&P; Pennsy was still running some X26s, but they had been rebuilt with new rooms and steel doors. B&M, Frisco, MoPac, and Rock Island were among the RRs that still had some of the USRA 40T DS box cars in service. However, these cars would have been seen only rarely in interchange on SE lines. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?
Alex Schneider
I popped for a Tichy AB brake kit.
Alex Schneider
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 1:01 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?
Bill,
Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use the ACCURAIL® for sure. Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and it is surely a time saver.
Thanks,
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
In a message dated 10/27/2013 2:32:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wakeene@... writes:
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Re: Naperville 2013 RPM Photos
ronald parisi
Dave: Thanks for the photos...always appreciated Ron Parisi
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:10 PM, <repairman87@...> wrote:
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Re: Lead shot in flat cars
Scott H. Haycock
AGAIN? For required list content, can you give us a hint of this years Shake N Take project? Scott Haycock Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment
Scott,
Now that the NSA has read my note I will likely go on the "no fly list"
AGAIN before I fly to Cocoa Breach...
Hey Mike can you write a letter to the TSA vouching for me... #^(
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it.
Norman Maclean
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Trix tank car
I was poking around with Google Images looking for tank car pictures
and came upon HOKX 650, which was a 5,800 gallon chlorine tank car -- I'm very happy to find this because I'm partial to Hooker and I have the Mathieson model and don't care for that paint scheme... prototype -- http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yO_ZCDz4vPE/UUNekYfNeEI/AAAAAAAABro/SAUBU5MKrqs/s1600/Tank+car+traffic+for+the+island.++Modelers+take+note.jpg model -- http://www.trixtrains.com/new04/24908.jpg the blog page where I found HOKX 650 -- http://caboosecoffee.blogspot.com/2013_03_01_archive.html It's amazing what you can find with Google Images :-) Tim O'
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Re: Lead shot in flat cars
Greg Martin
Scott,
Now that the NSA has read my note I will likely go on the "no fly list"
AGAIN before I fly to Cocoa Breach...
Hey Mike can you write a letter to the TSA vouching for me... #^(
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 10/27/2013 11:42:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
shhaycock@... writes:
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Re: Lead shot in flat cars
Scott H. Haycock
Perfect, especially for N scale or smaller! LOL Scott Haycock Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment
Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it.
Norman Maclean
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Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?
Greg Martin
Bill,
Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use
the ACCURAIL® for sure.
Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and
it is surely a time saver.
Thanks,
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 10/27/2013 2:32:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
wakeene@... writes:
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Re: Lead shot in flat cars
Greg Martin
Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean
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Re: ACF 70-ton covered hopper
North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
Hi Ron, Unless I’m looking at the wrong thing, here are the links to the IM undec kits, both of which IM advised were in stock as at October 2nd. The kits come without couplers (see below) and plastic wheelsets. Closed Side Kit http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/43698.htm Open Side Kit http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/43699.htm The instructions with the kits says to use a Kadee #78 which is no longer a current KD product. The #178 uses the same box with a round center post (instead of the heart shaped center post of the #78 ) to suit the whisker coupler.
IM also make RTR decorated versions which are listed towards the bottom of this page. IM advised the following stock numbers were in stock as at October 2nd.- 48609, 48614, 48622, 48629, 48635, 48642, 48660, 48661 & 48673. The RTR cars come with KD couplers and metal wheelsets. http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hohoppers.htm
Cheers Dave North
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Re: Most needed car?
Greg Martin
Tim responds to Elden's "Big Wish List"
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Re: Tangent three-dome takn car
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 10/27/2013 9:01 PM, Benjamin Hom
wrote:
B&O box? Tangent doesn't make one. Ben Hom Will call them then. Who else make mail order only? Maybe it was Fox Valley, problem with getting old. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: Tangent three-dome takn car
Benjamin Hom
Jon Miller wrote:
"I seem to remember I've talked with them before about the wheels and they told me the .088's were different and I couldn't trade them. Problem is I can't remember right now what car that was, B&O box I think." B&O box? Tangent doesn't make one. Ben Hom
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