Date   

Re: Fantasy Land

Charlie Vlk
 

 

Richard-

 

Your thoughts are on target and well-reasoned.

 

But flawed in one regard…..they are based on reason.

 

If reason ruled the Model Railroad Marketplace there would be no models of things like GG1s and Big Boys.   We would have had 50 Ft 1 ½  door single sheathed box cars of various prototypes (which roads which roamed the rails that most people model and therefore “need”) .   More “famous” locomotives which were limited to a few divisions of their one owner perversely still sell like hotcakes even though very few people model PRR Catenary or UP Sherman Hill.

 

Using the logic of what cars appeared in many railroad’s freight train wheel reports there are still many holes in the available prototypes….especially in flat cars and tank cars.  

 

A new model will always bring comments of “well, they shouda done…. instead” but commercial success for production models is more a function of a well-executed model that is very reasonably correct for at least one prototype (given the differences in sub-lots and changes in hardware for any given car)  and that works as close stand-ins for multiple paint jobs and other railroads.

 

Beyond that you are into the very short run resin kit and (coming) rapid prototype realm.

 

Charlie Vlk

Railroad Model Resources


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 10/28/2013 6:40 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:
depleted U you will notice it is nearly the same as elemental tungsten

    Checked the site and the cheapest tungsten is $3.25 an ounce ($52 a pound).  Great for N scale and good for HO if you need more space for other items, like sound decoders.  Or if there is a loco pulling contest someplace and you just have to win! :-D

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

Frank Gendernalik
 

To add more thoughts, while slightly outside of the STMFC, I started at Ford's Wayne (Mich) Assembly Plant in 1962 right out of college. I worked up front in the controllers office so I wasn't out back in the plant every day but I was out there often enough. Wayne built what we called called big Ford/big Mercury. The vehicles left by convoy (haulaway) or rail. Rail loading was on open bi-levels. I don't have numbers to support me, but I'd guess that slightly more than half of the production left via convoy. Wayne was served only by NYC. (About a football field east was the C&O/PM Plymouth/Toledo main line.)
Sometime, maybe 1964, Ford reactivated and retooled the old station wagon body plant immediately to the west and began building the original Bronco. This plant was also served exclusively by NYC. The Bronco Plant was renamed Michigan Truck. Finished vehicles were driven next door to Wayne Assembly's convoy and rail yards and merged with loads of Fords and Mercurys.
I bid Wayne a fond farewell in 1965 for greener (Ford) pastures in Dearborn.
Ford had 2 other Assembly Plants in the area--Dearborn Assembly (in the Rouge complex), which built Fairlanes, and Wixom Assembly, which built Lincolns and T'Birds at that time.
Dearborn Assembly was served by DT&I via the Ford Railroad but actually both NYC and C&O could also access the Rouge yard. Detroit Terminal/Wabash/D&TSL accessed the Rouge via the other railroads through interchanges immediately adjacent to the Rouge.
Wixom Assembly was served exclusively by C&O/PM.
My recollection was that for all of the Ford Assembly Plants in the Detroit area, open bi-levels were the primary rail car for finished vehicles in the early/mid 1960's.
Ford also had many component plants in the area. Add in the other auto companys' (GM and Chrysler) many Assembly Plants as well as component Plants in the area and that's a whole lot of freight cars. (To the railroads above add GTW in the mix.) That's a story for another day.
    
Frank Gendernalik
Northville, MI


On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:35 AM, "water.kresse@..." wrote:
 
Guy,
 
Thanks for the update and re-enlightenment . . as usual.  One forgets a lot since my 2009 article studies.
 
Do we have pix of those pre-WW2 truck trailer rigs for auto shipping?
 
I "believe" from a GM-glasses view point that the number of  regional auto assembly plants peaked in 1960-70 era and shipping distances became longer.  All  Vegas being built in a single plant . . . on a single floor level.  WW1 era three-four story assembly plants were getting long in the tooth.  Clearance plates were getting larger and had TTX pooling of cars.
 
I have a set of Oct 1960 pix of C&O and Ford transportation execs double-checking proposed tri-level (open sides and tops) rail car auto-ramps to four-car trailer and tractor rig loading conditions at Wixom, Michigan.   By 1961 all-C&O merchandise dept ads just had to have a tri-level pix in it.
 
Al


From: guycwilber@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:42:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

Al wrote:

I  believe the C&O had 50-ft staggered side with end-door auto-rack box
cars  thru 1956.  Pontiac was using highway truck-trailers in 1950.   C&O first
loaded tri-levels at Wixom, MI, in Oct 1960.
 
Al,
 
The C&O rostered approximately 200 50' auto  cars equipped with Evans
Auto~Loaders thru 1960.  None of the C&O, or  inherited PM cars, fitted with
loaders had end doors at that  time.  
 
Pontiac was shipping autos via trucks by the early  1920's as were most
manufacturers, though they still  utilized rail service from Pontiac, Michigan,
for long haul  deliveries (typically more than 400 miles).  
 
Assembly plants located at; Linden, NJ., Doraville, Ga.,  Kansas City, Mo.,
Los Angeles, Ca., and Wilmington, Del., were shipping autos by both rail  
and truck into the 1950's as well.
 
 The deliveries from Pontiac's total  production (via rail) averaged around
25%  from Pontiac and less than 14% from the assembly plants by the early  
1950's.  Deliveries from the assembly plants by rail were  usually within a
300 to 400 mile range.  
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada  
 
 
 
 



metal tank cars

 

The posts about the new Tangent tank car and other tank car models prompted me to think about the Globe and Athearn metal tank cars from the forties and fifties.  I still have the Union 76 tank car that I built as a teenager.  I have an Athearn three-dome SHPX tank car on my circa-1953 layout.  I have a second three-dome car that is in need of restoration - something I don't think I will do.  I regret selling the Globe two-dome tank cars that I had a few years ago.  Have not found any more anywhere.  HO needs a two-dome tank car.  The metal box cars and reefers were interesting too.  I still have the NYC Pacemaker box car that I built as a teen modeler.  Hugh T. Guillaume


Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

water.kresse@...
 

Guy,

 

Thanks for the update and re-enlightenment . . as usual.  One forgets a lot since my 2009 article studies.

 

Do we have pix of those pre-WW2 truck trailer rigs for auto shipping?

 

I "believe" from a GM-glasses view point that the number of  regional auto assembly plants peaked in 1960-70 era and shipping distances became longer.  All  Vegas being built in a single plant . . . on a single floor level.  WW1 era three-four story assembly plants were getting long in the tooth.  Clearance plates were getting larger and had TTX pooling of cars.

 

I have a set of Oct 1960 pix of C&O and Ford transportation execs double-checking proposed tri-level (open sides and tops) rail car auto-ramps to four-car trailer and tractor rig loading conditions at Wixom, Michigan.   By 1961 all-C&O merchandise dept ads just had to have a tri-level pix in it.

 

Al


From: guycwilber@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:42:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

Al wrote:

I  believe the C&O had 50-ft staggered side with end-door auto-rack box
cars  thru 1956.  Pontiac was using highway truck-trailers in 1950.   C&O first
loaded tri-levels at Wixom, MI, in Oct 1960.
 
Al,
 
The C&O rostered approximately 200 50' auto  cars equipped with Evans
Auto~Loaders thru 1960.  None of the C&O, or  inherited PM cars, fitted with
loaders had end doors at that  time.  
 
Pontiac was shipping autos via trucks by the early  1920's as were most
manufacturers, though they still  utilized rail service from Pontiac, Michigan,
for long haul  deliveries (typically more than 400 miles).  
 
Assembly plants located at; Linden, NJ., Doraville, Ga.,  Kansas City, Mo.,
Los Angeles, Ca., and Wilmington, Del., were shipping autos by both rail  
and truck into the 1950's as well.
 
 The deliveries from Pontiac's total  production (via rail) averaged around
25%  from Pontiac and less than 14% from the assembly plants by the early  
1950's.  Deliveries from the assembly plants by rail were  usually within a
300 to 400 mile range.  
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada  
 
 
 
 


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

destorzek@...
 

 



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

I popped for a Tichy AB brake kit.

 

Alex Schneider

 

Greg Martin said...


Bill,

 

Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use the ACCURAIL® for sure.

 Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and it is surely a time saver.

 

The Accurail set will only give you the brake cylinder, along with rods and levers. You still need the reservoir and AB valve, and the Tichy parts are as good as any.


Dennis


Lead shot in flat cars

Andy Carlson
 

Hello Greg-

If you look up specific gravity (relative densities of elements) for depleted U you will notice it is nearly the same as elemental tungsten, and not much more dense than tungsten carbide (which is easily found as machine shop waste). I have purchased tungsten weights from the pinewood derby supplier <maximum-velocity.com>. M-V sells tungsten in many geometric shapes, and also in powder, shot and a matrix of tungsten in epoxy. M-V offers supplies to ultra-competitive fathers' wishing to have their Boy Scout kid demolish the fatherless Scouts.

M-V has online sales several times a year. Even on sale, this stuff isn't cheap, but with locomotives needing some ballast help you would have to go to Platinum or Osmium to get denser material without a half-life.

-Andy Carlson


From: "tgregmrtn@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars

 
Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
 



Re: double sheathed & single sheathed - most common in the early 1950s???

Benjamin Scanlon
 

The only southeastern lines that got USRA SS box cars were the AB&A,
later absorbed by the ACL, and the GA. The GA cars were rebuilt in the
'30s with steel sheathing. the ACL cars were rebuilt with steel bodies
in the '40s except for a few that went second hand to the Columbia,
Newbury & Laurens, where they survived into the mid-'50s.


Hi, an old thread from 2005.

I am wondering if the AB&A (or would it have been AB&C by that time?) USRA boxcars that went from ACL to the CN&L  (I think it is the Columbia, Newberry and Laurens)  were the CN&L series 2525-2549? 

Their series 2500-2524 look similar to a USRA s/s but have Z trusses rather than the hat section truss.

http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/925270/ee238d17-5dd6-4287-a8ac-5e0b1d8a9c92-A28732.jpg

At the same time, CN&L doesn't show up as an owner in the 'USRA s/s boxcars against time' spreadsheet in our files section.

Regards, Benjamin S.

 



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:


On Jun 22, 2005, at 2:45 AM, matthewjstrickland wrote:

> i understand that double sheathed USRA were more common place than
> single sheathed. Can anyone hazzard a guess at the ratio for the early
> 1950s. I am just trying to get an aprroximate mix for roster for my
> model railroad. It is based on a south eastern prototype if that
> effects anything.

The number of cars originally built was very close; 25,000 for single
sheathed, 24,500 for double sheathed (this, of course, does not include
clones built in the '20s after the USRA relinquished control of the
RRs). By the early '50s, however, more of the single sheathed cars
were still in service in more or less original form. The all wood
bodies of the double sheathed cars deteriorated faster than the
steel-framed bodies on the SS cars, so more of them were rebuilt or
retired in the 1930s and '40s.

The only southeastern lines that got USRA SS box cars were the AB&A,
later absorbed by the ACL, and the GA. The GA cars were rebuilt in the
'30s with steel sheathing. the ACL cars were rebuilt with steel bodies
in the '40s except for a few that went second hand to the Columbia,
Newbury & Laurens, where they survived into the mid-'50s.

As for USRA 40T double sheathed box cars, the ACL got 950 of them and
later inherited another 300 when it acquired the C&WC, but all of those
cars were rebuilt in the '40s and no other SE RR had them.

As suggested by Tim Gilbert, it would be hard to justify more than one
or two USRA cars of either type on a model RR representing an early
'50s southeastern prototype. Foreign roads that still had USRA SS 50T
box cars in service that might have turned up in interchange included
Ann Arbor, Maine Central, MILW, Reading, and RF&P; Pennsy was still
running some X26s, but they had been rebuilt with new rooms and steel
doors. B&M, Frisco, MoPac, and Rock Island were among the RRs that
still had some of the USRA 40T DS box cars in service. However, these
cars would have been seen only rarely in interchange on SE lines.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Alex Schneider
 

I popped for a Tichy AB brake kit.

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 1:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

 




Bill,

 

Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use the ACCURAIL® for sure.

 Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and it is surely a time saver.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Greg Martin

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

 

In a message dated 10/27/2013 2:32:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wakeene@... writes:

Hello group,

 

Would the Accurail brake rigging be a quick and relatively easy method to improve these components under a blue box kit?

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA





Re: Naperville 2013 RPM Photos

ronald parisi
 

Dave:

Thanks for the photos...always appreciated

Ron Parisi


On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:10 PM, <repairman87@...> wrote:
 

There are some nice cars.  I like the Milwaukee Road refer by John Greedy


Scott McDonald



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Thanks Dave – Andy


On Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:28 PM, "paul.doggett2472@..." wrote:
 
Dave
        Thanks for sharing
Paul Doggett UK 


---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

I have posted my 2013 Naperville RPM photos at:
 
 
Dave Hussey




Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Scott H. Haycock
 


AGAIN?

For required list content, can you give us a hint of this years Shake N Take project?


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

Scott,
 
Now that the NSA has read my note I will likely go on the "no fly list" AGAIN before I fly to Cocoa Breach...
 
Hey Mike can you write a letter to the TSA vouching for me... #^(
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 



Trix tank car

Tim O'Connor
 

I was poking around with Google Images looking for tank car pictures
and came upon HOKX 650, which was a 5,800 gallon chlorine tank car --
I'm very happy to find this because I'm partial to Hooker and I have the
Mathieson model and don't care for that paint scheme...

prototype --
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yO_ZCDz4vPE/UUNekYfNeEI/AAAAAAAABro/SAUBU5MKrqs/s1600/Tank+car+traffic+for+the+island.++Modelers+take+note.jpg

model --
http://www.trixtrains.com/new04/24908.jpg

the blog page where I found HOKX 650 --
http://caboosecoffee.blogspot.com/2013_03_01_archive.html

It's amazing what you can find with Google Images :-)

Tim O'


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Greg Martin
 

Scott,
 
Now that the NSA has read my note I will likely go on the "no fly list" AGAIN before I fly to Cocoa Breach...
 
Hey Mike can you write a letter to the TSA vouching for me... #^(
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 10/27/2013 11:42:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, shhaycock@... writes:

 

Perfect, especially for N scale or smaller! LOL

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
 



Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Scott H. Haycock
 

Perfect, especially for N scale or smaller! LOL

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
 



Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Greg Martin
 

Bill,
 
Yes if you want to save time and get a respectable set of brake rigging use the ACCURAIL® for sure.
 Dennis has supplied them in the past for our SHAKLE N TAKE kits and it is surely a time saver.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 10/27/2013 2:32:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wakeene@... writes:

Hello group,

Would the Accurail brake rigging be a quick and relatively easy method to improve these components under a blue box kit?

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Greg Martin
 

Has anyone tied depleted uranium? 3^)
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
 


Re: ACF 70-ton covered hopper

North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

Hi Ron,

Unless I’m looking at the wrong thing, here are the links to the IM undec kits, both of which IM advised were in stock as at October 2nd.

The kits come without couplers (see below) and plastic wheelsets.

Closed Side Kit

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/43698.htm

Open Side Kit

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/43699.htm

The instructions with the kits says to use a Kadee #78 which is no longer a current KD product.

The #178 uses the same box with a round center post (instead of the heart shaped center post of the #78 ) to suit the whisker coupler.

 

IM also make RTR decorated versions which are listed towards the bottom of this page.  IM advised the following stock numbers were in stock as at October 2nd.- 48609, 48614, 48622, 48629, 48635, 48642, 48660, 48661 & 48673. The RTR cars come with KD couplers and metal wheelsets.

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hohoppers.htm

 

Cheers

Dave North

 


Re: Most needed car?

Greg Martin
 

Tim responds to Elden's "Big Wish List"
 

   "-- PRR X29B in its many schemes;
   -- NYC 40-foot box with proprietary ends, plus 50-footers, also;

Proprietary ends?? Are you talking about Despatch ends or something else?
"
 
You know more so than  NYC issue that the PRR X29B is in production by F&C so with such a limited interest do we really need one in plastic? Resin or bashed it is a good project.
 
"-- P&WV 40-foot AC&F 8-foot door box car;

Why isn't a Branchline model good for the P&WV box car?"
It is or a CB&T car kit as well. The top ribs on the ends need to be trimmed in as the car was 10" 4" IH and the door needs to be replaced with an early YSD and eight ring ladders."
 
"--PRR F41 flat car;

F41? Isn't that just a General Steel 53'6" flat with some minor differences?"
 
It truly is a different car and on my wish list as well.
 
"-- Linde 40-foot "tank" box cars..

Really, all you need is a new end for Branchline cars with the small door.
And decals of course."
 
Stan has offered this lit for years and includes the interior detail as well. Why reinvent the wheel?
" FGE-built early 50' mechanical reefers"
 
Good luck with this one as the plans are stuck in an engineering office and they are not giving even a peek... I've tried.

"Any 50' Santa Fe mechanical reefer!"
 
Not just any thanks, let's start with the transition era cars the Rr55, 56 and 57. These are the initial cars that Santa Fe pioneer their fleet from and lasted well into the 70's and beyond in work service. There important part is they had slogans...  I would favor this car if the G men are not going to give up the FGEX/WFEX/BREX and NP car designs.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: Tangent three-dome takn car

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 10/27/2013 9:01 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
B&O box?  Tangent doesn't make one.
 
 
Ben Hom

    Will call them then.  Who else make mail order only?  Maybe it was Fox Valley, problem with getting old.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Tangent three-dome takn car

Benjamin Hom
 

Jon Miller wrote:
"I seem to remember  I've talked with them before about the wheels and they told me the .088's were different and I couldn't trade them.  Problem is I can't remember right now what car that was, B&O box I think."
 
B&O box?  Tangent doesn't make one.
 
 
Ben Hom

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